The Propane Air Engine Project

[Tommey Reed]

Hi All,

I have decided to start a open forum on air engine that use propane to drive a close loop system.

This is the only way for me to keep this technology out in the open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BUsnaPrjTw

What is your opinion?

Tom

[Chet K]

Tom
you're gonna have some fun....

the only thing I would add is the Recent Open source  propane refrigerant  PDF from Chris Hunter was the stimuli for this work.

thank you Chris Hunter [Alaskastar].

Quite true his work is modifying ICE's and has issues in real world application [leaks freeze ups etc]

original thread here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2438.msg38519#msg38519

here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/17019-chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-o-u-pdf-2.html#post258164

and here
http://www.overunity.com/14628/chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-an-o-u-pdf/msg407815/#msg407815

I go by user name Ramset on those forums, have since changed to my actual name here.

Thx
Chet

[Tommey Reed]

Hi Chet,

Yes I agree Chris Hunter started this Idea, so credit is due to him.

Thank you Chris Hunter.

Now after reading some data about propane, it open all types of possibilities in free energy.

This is some data that holds the key to a efficient propane air engine projects.

Propane is a hydrocarbon fuel, chemical description C3H8.
Its boiling point is -44°F (-42°C)
Its octane rating is 104
Latent heat of vaporization = 183 BTU's / lb (426 kJ/kg)
91,500 BTU's per gallon (25300 kJ/L)
Autoignition temperature 855°F (457°C)
Stoichiometric by weight = 15.5:1
Molecular weight = 44.09
Carbon % by weight = 89%
Hydrogen % by weight = 18%
Flammability limits = 2.1 – 9.6%
Viscosity at 68°F = 0.592 BTU/lb °F (2.48 KJ/Kg °K)
Expansion rate = 270:1 (expands in volume 270 times from liquid to ambient pressure vapor)
LPG is auto-refrigerating, when pressure is reduced, it boils by absorbing heat

Propane's vapor pressure (the amount of pressure required to keep LPG liquid at ambient temperatures) is zero at -44°F (-42°C), about 120 psig at 70°F, about 250 psig at 125°F, and close to 400 psig at 160°F.

When compressing air you have a lost as pressure increase, and volume goes down.

But compressing air is very in-efficient due to mechanical load and temperatures.

For propane, you have a expanding liquid to gas 1:270 times where air is 1:1. Does this mean that propane in a gas form needs 270 compression stroke to turn back to a  liquid?

That I don't know at this time, but it's very important to find out with a prototype.

Tom.

[Tommey Reed]

This is my efficient ac compressor set up..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW7z9EeQp3E

Tom

[Tommey Reed]

My Propane LP jet Engine design.

Tom

[Chet K]

Tom
This is from Johan  a very good man with much experience in these systems,  first released in the last century [1998-9]

http://www.heat2power.net/

thx
Chet

[Tommey Reed]

I have lots of engine designs that will work, this one is a Propane LP Jet Engine.

This is a simple theory on how it works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwmINaS0X0c

I will also show a Clem's Engine design base on expand rotating rim jet engine design.


Tom

[Tommey Reed]

Hi All,

I just finished the propane pump assy.

I also add the radiator to act as the expansion and condenser of gas to liquid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogzxzW5WFEw

Tom

[Centraflow]

Wow Tom, I wish I had your energy, keep at it

regards

Mike

[Tommey Reed]

Thanks Mike,

I have a question on this idea of using a propane power jet engine close loop system, what is your opinion?

Tom

[ion]

We had worked up a similar design using a hallow shaft and pumping the liquid phase back up the center of the shaft to the expansion turbine. Completely sealed, one moving part with coils and magnets for both start up and run as a generator.

So basically a turbine at one end of the shaft, a scroll pump or another turbine in the reverse direction at the cold end working fluid circulates through the hallow axle, hits the top hot plate, expands , then flows to the outside of the container where it is cooled back to liquid, final cooling at the bottom plate.

This is a continuous process rather than the "batch" process of a piston heat motor.

I'll post the drawings. It was based on some very old patents for mercury vapor closed cycle heat motors from the 1930's and some later versions. Prior art is noted in the descriptive document.

We were going to patent when we discovered the prior art. The drawings attached are not the final design, which was much improved in concept.

Any interest?

Abstract:
A sealed, self contained heat engine that has effectively one moving part. The engine can produce electrical energy or mechanical torque from the presented temperature differential on its hot and cold sides. The device uses a novel turbine style approach to capturing the expansion and compression of gas due to the energy present in the temperature differential between the hot and cold sides. The engine can double as a heat pump if rotational energy is imparted on it. The device has very few inexpensive molded parts and operates differently than conventional Stirling cycle type engines

[Tommey Reed]

That interesting Ion,

I have all the parts to build two jet engine with 5" turbine compressors from diesel trucks I got new on Ebay for 5$, yes 10$ for two turbine compressors.

Thanks for the input.

Tom

[ion]

We are glad you are sticking around Tommey, I enjoy all your posts.

[Tommey Reed]

Hi All,

Ok, I Got some data to compress up to 120 psi @20amps or 2200 watts = 2.94hp of mechanical load.

This will change when fill with propane, it should be less energy.

Enjoy this test...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH4MxSBriag

Tom.

[Tommey Reed]

Hi All,

To make a propane or air running engine in a efficient way, I have design a simple 3 way linear valve.

Take a look at this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7WOoMjY4DA

Tom.

[Tommey Reed]

Hi All,

I'm testing a air run on this valve I design, if everything works out I will put in on the ac system and test run using the compressor before adding propane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1dvGFoL6lM

Tom 

[Tommey Reed]

I'm not using a IC engine, waste of time and use lots of CFM's.

I'm going with my own engine design with a 6.5" crank shaft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7BrD_A7zA

Tom...

[evolvingape]

Hi Tom,

This information might help you on your journey:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-V_diagram

[Tommey Reed]

Thanks Evolvingape,


I did a test run and my electric valves are not fast enough, just wanted to make shore before I go back to mechanical linear valves.

I also found that my 1/4 input ports are too small, need 1/2 or better, this will allow better flow of expanding gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42CjyHjMfxg




Tom

[Tommey Reed]

This is a IC engine running much faster, but lots of cfm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ0e-kM27CM

Tom.

[Matt Watts]

Excellent start Tommey.  You definitely have something there you can work with.

Are you getting pretty good torque at the shaft?

How about blow-by?  Crankcase breathing okay?  Do you see any significant changes when you tilt the block to let some oil get around the rings?


Seriously, with this setup, you should be able to try some phase-change experiments.  Nice work.

[Tommey Reed]

Hi Matt,

Yes I agree it's a start to future experiments.

I still need to make the valve leak proof, but I could try to loop in in the compressure set up I have.

I could also add a glow plug to increase pressure as the pressurized air enter the chamber.

Lots of experiments that can be done.

Thanks for your input

Tom.

[Centraflow]

Really excellent Tom

Mike

[Tommey Reed]

Hi All,

OK, now there just might be something to a close loop system wiith a IC engine. 

This is the first test using the AC compressor to compress air to run the IC engine two stroke design.

Enjoy the show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa_4cxA84cU

Tom 

[evolvingape]

Hi Tom,

The new air cars use regenerative breaking to recover kinetic energy and store it or use it for drive.

ICE ORC systems recover waste heat energy from the hot ICE exhaust.

How do we integrate the two systems ?

http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/green-cars/peugeot-citroen-unveils-compressed-air-hybrid-tech

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2568732/Car-runs-air-set-hit-streets-year-Peugeot-claims-new-hybrid-117mpg.html