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Author Topic: HHO-the good ,the bad,and the ugly  (Read 41730 times)

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Hi Wattsup

thanks for the last video, what I find strange is there does not seem to be gas coming off of the left electrode "O2", can you confirm this or am I missing something?

Seems that efficiency is best below 50% duty.

The frequency does not make much difference, I think you said at one point you were up into the Mhz range!

It shows up the link stream of gas bubbles really well, this is more due to the point end of the electrode, which comes down to electrode design once again.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
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Dear All.

We have finally solved the BANG issue !!

A home made flash arrester. Made from a couple of sintered Bronze air silencers and some Stainless Steel wool packed in between. I had hoped the Bronze would have worked on it's own but another bubbler died in the process of testing !!   ;D

We will now be moving forward to testing on a larger engine, I will keep you posted.

Cheers Grum.


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
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Graham,

Why don't you try a standard, 10", cheap, "off-the-shelf" water filter housing with a 1 micron Polyspun sediment cartridge fitted.

It STOPS the flame as well as it removes moisture & electrolyte from the gas!

If the housing is CLEAR, you can see the accumulated water which is removed from the gas.

Use it in a normal way with the "OUT" going to the engine.  This means the exploding/burning gas will be in the CENTER of the cartridge.

You could reduce the volume of gas in that center (usually 1" diameter) by "filling" it with a plastic rod of, say, 1/2" diameter.

Cheers,
Les Banki

   

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So who here thinks that an EMP is produced when HHO explodes/implodes, and who thinks not.


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So who here thinks that an EMP is produced when HHO explodes/implodes, and who thinks not.

Simple test, that I have actually done...

Take a 30 foot or so roll of Silastic tubing, insert an air-core coil, connect to your scope, fill the tubing with HHO and ignite.  See if you don't get a whooper electrical impulse on the scope.  Voltage I saw.  Like a dummy I didn't think to measure the amperage too.
   

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Simple test, that I have actually done...

Take a 30 foot or so roll of Silastic tubing, insert an air-core coil, connect to your scope, fill the tubing with HHO and ignite.  See if you don't get a whooper electrical impulse on the scope.  Voltage I saw.  Like a dummy I didn't think to measure the amperage too.
Well i think Chet has waited long enough O0
I will be doing it a little different Matt. I will be using two air core coils wound on wooden formers. Then balloons full of different mixes(ratio's of ambiant air)will be detonated next to the coils-much to the neighbours displeasure i would imagine.

We will be testing and recording voltage and current(if there is any),and capturing the power in a few different size cap's. This will make it easy to work out joules of energy from each mix.


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 :o   O0

This should be very interesting

Thx
Chet
   
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Simple test, that I have actually done...

Take a 30 foot or so roll of Silastic tubing, insert an air-core coil, connect to your scope, fill the tubing with HHO and ignite.
I would have thought that this is potentially pretty hazardous.

If the tubing is reasonably large in diameter and if air gets in during the process and the mixture is then not exactly stoichiometric, then all will be well. But if it is a perfect stoichiometric mix from the cell, then the tubing could be blown to bits and the shockwave from the report might even blow someone's ear drums.
   
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Paul R
quote
I would have thought that this is potentially pretty hazardous.

---------------------

"True Dat"
anytime you play with combustibles  ,  always be prepared for the obvious .

Les has mentioned safety and ear protection many, many times.

thx
Chet

   

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Paul R
quote
I would have thought that this is potentially pretty hazardous.

---------------------

"True Dat"
anytime you play with combustibles  ,  always be prepared for the obvious .

Les has mentioned safety and ear protection many, many times.

thx
Chet



Dear Chet.

Eh, Eh, did you say something ??   ;D

Seriously though, that mix is perfect for early Tinnitus !! Both my son and I are still suffering with severe ringing in the ears !!

Dear Brad.

Whilst you are annoying your neighbours would you be so kind as to try a Propane/Butane mix with air ? It might be an interesting test to see if an Hydrocarbon also creates this effect.  Some months back I tried igniting a mix of HHO with a 300 turn coil on a  Ferrite core around a small sample in a glass hypodermic syringe not a thing was measured !! Perhaps the Ferrite was not a great idea ??

Cheers Graham.

PS. Try freeze framing the attached WAV file. See the lightning !!  :D



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Perhaps the Ferrite was not a great idea ??

The ferrite absorbed the magnetic moment, maybe!

I did see somewhere that this had been tried, here is some writing on the subject

http://www.askamathematician.com/2011/11/q-why-do-a-nuclear-weapons-cause-emps-electromagnetic-pulses/

If you had a field there to start with, static charge, then the explosion would move it and create the event :-\

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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I would have thought that this is potentially pretty hazardous.

If the tubing is reasonably large in diameter and if air gets in during the process and the mixture is then not exactly stoichiometric, then all will be well. But if it is a perfect stoichiometric mix from the cell, then the tubing could be blown to bits and the shockwave from the report might even blow someone's ear drums.
Paul
You have that back to front. If it is pure HHO from the cell,then there will be an implosion-not explosion-->The PVC hose will simply collaps.
If ambiant air gets in the mix,then you will get an explosion.


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Paul
You have that back to front. If it is pure HHO from the cell,then there will be an implosion-not explosion-->The PVC hose will simply collaps.
If ambiant air gets in the mix,then you will get an explosion.
There will be an explosion because the gases will heat up and expand. If the tubing withstands this, then there will be an implosion as the products of combustion, steam, condense to water.

I would wager that, in the stoichiometric example, with fairly large diameter tubing, the tubing will be shredded and the operator will go deaf.
   

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Igniting hydrogen and oxygen in a 2:1 ratio will explode first and then contract. Reason is the amount of energy released from this chemical reaction has to go somewhere, that energy produces a shock wave, that wave has a huge amount of energy  in it.

Yes afterwards there is a cooling and reduction in volume, it is this that then causes what is deemed an implosion but really a reduction in volume.

I have often thought a motor/generator could be made using this, water plasma spark with a magnetic piston, "cylindrical neo", and around the outside a coil to collect AC current, the water would be used over and over again :)

I think Evolvingape has a similar idea.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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I would wager that, in the stoichiometric example, with fairly large diameter tubing, the tubing will be shredded and the operator will go deaf.

Say what?  Where you talking to me?    ;D

With 3/8" ID clear Silastic tubing, what you will witness is the tube jump, an impulse if you will.  The gas will become a pinkish orange plasma for a very brief moment then come right back to rest as though nothing happened.  At least with Silastic tubing, it won't explode.  This very flexible material will absorb the shock wave quite nicely.  As long as you don't have your ear right next to the exit side of the tube, you won't hear anything in excess of large hammer striking a metal plate.  What you won't see unless you have a very sophisticated high speed camera is the flame front move through the tubing.  It will appear as if the whole tubing illuminates instantly.

So where do I collect that wager?    :D


BTW, If you watch Steve from GreenFuelH2O test flashback suppressors, you will see the tubing doesn't explode.  It doesn't explode when I extinguish my HHO torch either.

http://www.youtube.com/user/delvis11/videos

I recommend folks (i.e. Paul) go watch as many of these videos as you can find time for and you'll be up-to-speed with HHO fairly quick.
   
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Say what?  Where you talking to me?    ;D

With 3/8" ID clear Silastic tubing, what you will witness is the tube jump, an impulse if you will.  The gas will become a pinkish orange plasma for a very brief moment then come right back to rest as though nothing happened.  At least with Silastic tubing, it won't explode.  This very flexible material will absorb the shock wave quite nicely.  As long as you don't have your ear right next to the exit side of the tube, you won't hear anything in excess of large hammer striking a metal plate.  What you won't see unless you have a very sophisticated high speed camera is the flame front move through the tubing.  It will appear as if the whole tubing illuminates instantly.

So where do I collect that wager?    :D


BTW, If you watch Steve from GreenFuelH2O test flashback suppressors, you will see the tubing doesn't explode.  It doesn't explode when I extinguish my HHO torch either.

http://www.youtube.com/user/delvis11/videos

I recommend folks (i.e. Paul) go watch as many of these videos as you can find time for and you'll be up-to-speed with HHO fairly quick.

You are irresponsible, Matt Watts, to advise those who mighty read this thread to do as you suggest, and if they do just that, and their ear drums break, you may find that they use the legal system to trace you and take you to court for damages.

See 0.35 sec, and this is only a black plastic rubbish bag.remember that neither computers nor Youtube  sound  can  cope  with  these sound pressure transients. The sound result will be "dumbed down".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqlbb_ojAdI
   
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You are irresponsible, Matt Watts, to advise those who mighty read this thread to do as you suggest, and if they do just that, and their ear drums break, you may find that they use the legal system to trace you and take you to court for damages.

See 0.35 sec, and this is only a black plastic rubbish bag.remember that neither computers nor Youtube  sound  can  cope  with  these sound pressure transients. The sound result will be "dumbed down".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqlbb_ojAdI


I'm not sure how to respond to that Paul.  I can certainly keep my knowledge and understanding of HHO to myself and let others learn the hard way or not at all.

TinMan asked if anyone thinks the ignition of HHO creates an EMP; based on my testing, I think it does.  I explained what I did and why I think that way.

I'm well on my way to becoming deaf, dumb and blind.  When #2 is complete, y'all be on your own.

If you don't want my help, just say so.   :(
   
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Matt
Your experiment and observations have absolutely nothing in common with Paul R's  example
of a 30 gallon waste bag filled with a combustible Gas.

One of the oddest comments I have ever read here, especially given the M.O. of the research involves combustion ??

the information you shared on a product which is inherently safe to use [do to its elastomeric qualities] is actually a very valuable safety tip.

thank you for that information as well as all your other helpful and informative contributions.

Chet
« Last Edit: 2014-10-25, 20:59:38 by Chet K »
   

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You are irresponsible, Matt Watts, to advise those who mighty read this thread to do as you suggest, and if they do just that, and their ear drums break, you may find that they use the legal system to trace you and take you to court for damages.

See 0.35 sec, and this is only a black plastic rubbish bag.remember that neither computers nor Youtube  sound  can  cope  with  these sound pressure transients. The sound result will be "dumbed down".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqlbb_ojAdI

Please show us all where Matt said anything about a rubbish bag full of HHO,as i must have missed that bit ???
What Matt has described is a safe test,and nothing will explode or cause a deafening bang.All of us here are aware of the risk involved in experimenting,and we all are responsible for our own safety at the end of the day.

You had better not watch my next video Paul,as it involves large HHO explosions.


---------------------------
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Matt

thank you for that information as well as all your other helpful and informative contributions.

Thanks Chet.

Having worked at this facility for over seven years, I do have a little knowledge about and respect for some of the most dangerous items that exist on planet earth.  Take note of the little igloo building where I spent a good portion of my time.
http://www.dugway.army.mil/videos.aspx

Yes, I know what can harm a person and a small flexible tube filled with HHO ain't it.

Bottom line, if someone wants to learn first hand, they need to think straight, act smartly and get over their fear.  Only then can they experience the full depth and breadth of their human embodiment.

And speaking of irresponsible behavior...

This would have never happened if I was in charge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbBk0Y6cQZQ
   
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.All of us here are aware of the risk involved in experimenting,
Yes, but this does not apply to members of the public who just stroll in.

There was a very sad incident several years ago on Bob Boyce's Hydroxy Yahoo group when somebody's mother logged on to blame Bob for the death of her son. The bottom line was that the son, along with everyone else, had been warned a thousand times. But he died, and she blamed Bob.

If anyone encourages others on a publicly available forum to stick a lighted cigarette lighter to hydroxy gas, then it should be accompanied by a severely phrased warning.

Don't forget that it is not the explosion (before the implosion) and resultant potential destruction of the vessel holding the HHO that does the damage; it is the shockwave generated by the flame front, since the flame front advances at well in excess of mach 1.
   

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Yes, but this does not apply to members of the public who just stroll in.

There was a very sad incident several years ago on Bob Boyce's Hydroxy Yahoo group when somebody's mother logged on to blame Bob for the death of her son. The bottom line was that the son, along with everyone else, had been warned a thousand times. But he died, and she blamed Bob.

If anyone encourages others on a publicly available forum to stick a lighted cigarette lighter to hydroxy gas, then it should be accompanied by a severely phrased warning.

Don't forget that it is not the explosion (before the implosion) and resultant potential destruction of the vessel holding the HHO that does the damage; it is the shockwave generated by the flame front, since the flame front advances at well in excess of mach 1.

And yet no matter how much we try and teach the dangers of a motor vehicle,people still die in car accidents.
Matt's test is safe-and thats the bottom line. O0


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Paul R
Again you bring an inappropriate worst case scenario to justify your telling Matt his ity bitty soft flexible clear hose experiment will cause harm.

having worked all my life with high risk safety issues and teaching people how NOT to hurt themselves,it is a proven fact that the single most dangerous weapon in the hands of humanity is a screw driver [OSHA fact]

more people are blinded stabbed maimed or otherwise injured by the improper use of a screwdriver [ hammering prying pounding etc etc]

where should we start the disclaimer...how about the hazards of oxygen??

 :o

Or maybe you could write the disclaimer ??

thx
Chet

   
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Or maybe you could write the disclaimer ??
Fair enough.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Hydroxy Gas, aka HHO, being a stoichiometric mix of H2 and O2.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This gas is of profound interest and potential benefit, as is dynamite, nitroglycerine
and many other similar products. The advice of the top researcher in this area, Bob Boyce,
is that it is safest generated  and used in situ - i.e. make it under the bonnet and feed it
straight to the carburettor.

BE AFRAID - BE VERY AFRAID of using it in other scenarios. It is useful but is capable,
when out of control, of blowing a wall out of a room. viz Werner Von Braun's early
attempts at a similar technologyi when the gases become stoichiometric by mistake.

The flame speed exceeds the speed of sound and the shock wave can burst ear drums.

If you are worried, then you may be facing a bright future.

If you are not worried, you may well die soon.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
.
.
   

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Dear All.

Slightly off topic but of interest to us " Petrol Heads " , " Gasoline Heads " .

I have attached a photo of one of the largest Spark plugs I personally have ever seen.  This was fitted, along with 3 others to one of the UK's largest single cylinder Suction Gas engines !!  The Gas was so difficult to ignite that all four plugs were used together.
Stories abound  regarding a miss fire would cause the heavy Cast Iron exhaust cover to be blown over 150 feet into the air !!   :D

Sadly the engine was worth far too much as scrap and no longer exists, just a few plugs remain.

My Son and I spent a wonderful day at the Anson Engine museum, the home of these plugs, showing off the little Leek Gas engine running on HHO. There was great interest shown and also a few overheard conversations of Government covering up this sort of technology !!
Kind of makes you think ??   ;)

Cheers Grum.


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