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Author Topic: HHO-the good ,the bad,and the ugly  (Read 38100 times)

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As some of us are busy building HHO setup's,now would be a good time to post here what you know to be fact about HHO and cells.

Things to watch out for.
Most efficient cell design.
Most efficient cell drivers-DC or pulsed?.
And of course the fraud's.

Post what you know here,and things you have found through actual experiments.

Lets start of with some fraud's. Who here know what this guy done,and how he seems to show a 6hp motor running of that small cell.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iRZ4qJ38OY


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Lets start of with some fraud's. Who here know what this guy done,and how he seems to show a 6hp motor running of that small cell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iRZ4qJ38OY

Okay, how about this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlciNOyo_U

Gary Hendershot assured me there must have been alcohol or some form of fuel in the bubbler or even the cell.

No fuel injector, no workie right?


I actually fooled some people making a small lawn mower engine run off of sand, only it wasn't all sand, some of it was calcium carbide.  And for those that don't know their chemistry, add a little water to calcium carbide and what do you get?  Acetylene.


As for cells, I really like the older ones produced by GreenFuelH2O and the older Bob Volk cells.  The Volk cells are dead simple to replicate since you don't have to bore any holes, screw around with gaskets, just CNC router the outer case pieces and order some precut square plates of stainless, bolt it all together and you're done.  He called them a Hybrid cell since they are a cross between a dry cell and a wet cell.  Again very simple and straightforward to make.  I'll post some pictures when I get a moment if anyone is interested.
   

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Okay, how about this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlciNOyo_U

Gary Hendershot assured me there must have been alcohol or some form of fuel in the bubbler or even the cell.

No fuel injector, no workie right?


I actually fooled some people making a small lawn mower engine run off of sand, only it wasn't all sand, some of it was calcium carbide.  And for those that don't know their chemistry, add a little water to calcium carbide and what do you get?  Acetylene.


As for cells, I really like the older ones produced by GreenFuelH2O and the older Bob Volk cells.  The Volk cells are dead simple to replicate since you don't have to bore any holes, screw around with gaskets, just CNC router the outer case pieces and order some precut square plates of stainless, bolt it all together and you're done.  He called them a Hybrid cell since they are a cross between a dry cell and a wet cell.  Again very simple and straightforward to make.  I'll post some pictures when I get a moment if anyone is interested.
Lol,yea i remember that one. As you can see,there was no where near enough gas going through the bubbler to run that engine. It is quite easy to get one of those ICE's to run without any fuel entering the inlet at all. Infact,you can make it look like it's running on fresh air. Here is what you do. First you drain all the oil out of the crank case. Then you make a mix of 10% 2 stroke oil,and 90% gasoline. You then fill your crankcase with this mix(about 10% more than the full mark).Rip the carby off,pull the rip cord,and bob's ya uncle-you now have a motor running flat out that will last about 30 to 40 minutes before the big bang. This use to be a problem with diesel's that had buggered oil ring's-the bloody things would keep running once they were hot, without any fuel-then they go bang.This is another party trick to watch out for.


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hhop

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2288.0

I have a tubular wet cell design that works as you know. It uses the principle of the often overlooked volume change of the gas to pump water reliably, before ignition reset's the system.

No flashback arrestor is needed as the cell is built into the pump and open to atmospheric pressure.

Should a premature ignition take place the cell resets and continues to function correctly. (Never happened the gas produced in this system is very stable for hho, although there was the phenomenon I described of igniting the cell from a low voltage DC source immediately after ignition had just occurred, without a spark..)

Heat is retained inside the cell and transfers to the electrolyte, creating a temperature / vapour pressure relationship and the liquid is then pumped around the circuit to the heat exchanger thermal storage tank.

The hhop I believe is capable of running a home heating system at input power low enough to be used from a solar panel array.

This is the safest cell design I have ever used and I have never had a single accident since adopting this cell construction method, in fact I rarely even worry about it anymore which is a big change from the old days!

Gas production rate determines how long it takes to pump the water sleeve, the rate is currently too low to be used as an engine, but fine for a pump.

In some designs I have built the cell electrodes themselves are the ignition points, no need for a spark plug, just change the signal from low voltage DC which produces the gas to HV DC which creates the spark.

The dielectric breakdown resistance of water and hho is not the same value. Water is significantly higher and exploiting this property can allow the liquid to act as a timing switch providing system feedback in some designs.

Additional:

When you have displaced 50% volume of water in the chamber, you have exposed 50% of the electrodes length to gas atmosphere.

The exposed electrodes can now generate a spark gap if the dielectric strength of 2 x water boundary layers + 1 x hho gas gap is exceeded.

At 80kV I reliably ignited hho.

At 2kV+ it is highly likely the water vapor would combust releasing a lot of energy (Not tried it at this initiation energy level yet).

Leave the gas bypass tube out (much easier build) to entrain hho bubbles in the exhaust flow.

In a clear pipe you can see the hho bubbles entrained in the flow proceeding to atmosphere via bouyancy.

When you trigger the main charge in the chamber hydraulic shock is transmitted in the semi elastic fluid and sets off all the other hho bubbles.

The resultant hydraulic slam from the water slamming together back into a non elastic (non compressible) hydraulic state.

hho bubbled up through an algae slurry and then triggered to create localised bubble shockwaves should process algea into biooil effectively.

hhop is designed to be a solid state, solar powered, bio fuel processor.

 O0

« Last Edit: 2014-10-05, 12:45:38 by evolvingape »


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for your consideration http://www.artizan.ru/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Build.a.high.quality.Browns.Gas_.HHO_.electrolyzer.pdf  far be it for me to advise  but for perhaps younger readers a/ does browns gas actually exist ?  ( despite commercially available machines the technology still isn't taught) ...  and b/ as for the COP>1 aspect that surly is rather dependant on switching time  and wave form that's been made clear by at least one member of this forum and many many others guys that not only have the T shirt but a full dress suit. I suggest the link I posted  is tenuous so if you have the slightest interest download ... kind regards Duncan


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@TinMan

Thanks for opening this thread.

I think the main word in H production is H and O "Recombination". I am convinced that in any case, or, in all cases that use rising plates, wet or dry type, there will be a good 50% to 80% of the energy that is lost anyways, regardless of how you try to arrange the plates.

The first video I made is here and I will be putting a few more with some pretty crazy visuals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpLVSwIkeE

My take is very simple. It seems to me that there is no real study of the HHO process. I have been searching endlessly for tech papers specifically on H and O recombination during the water electrolysis process. All I could find are recombination of the noble gases at high temperatures via catalysts but I am amazed that a University has not already done some very good close up videos of H bubble creation using their state of the art equipment. Hydrogen is the simplest atom around and readily available to see the effects even closer then what I have managed to do.

If you consider that 1 litre of water can produce up to 4707 litres of hydrogen the present systems are peanuts and there is a major reason for this lack of production advancement.  http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae367.cfm

If anyone looked carefully at my last youtube of H bubbles under a microscope, you will notice there is a very high level of H and O recombination back to water when the bubbles break and this is occurring with only two titanium metal points near each other. This says so much on the total process that guys should have been jumping up in the air. This was one small lab test done on the bench with no more then the energy from a FG and no ions added, only demineralized water from reverse osmosis.

From that video, we can quickly conclude that the recombination rate of water to H and O to water again is so high and continuous that it is no wonder that guys have to pump high amps into these cells to then produce whatever the cells will output as H.

There is no way a lone hydrogen atom can escape this. The hydrogen has to be harboured in those tiny bubbles containing millions of H atoms. H atoms are neutral so they can stay inside the bubble but they also have the unique ability to be anionic or cationic so if you leave one out there alone it will quickly find a complimentary ion and change over. 

The problem with vertical cell plates as guys are doing all over the world now is that the H produced at the lowest point in the cell has to rise all the way up and out of the top. This means the chances of that actually happening are next to nil given all the havoc it would have to pass through in a bubble, being hit by millions of other bubbles that physically break them open and recombine back to water and those bubbles that do manage to exit from the top actually had a better chance of winning at the lottery.

So to overcome this unseen continuous recombination process, guys use these high amps and pump in juice to "overproduce" so that from that overkill, you can at least get something out of it and this is what we know and accept today as the H production levels we see and what guys are fighting against with more and more elaborate pulsing schemes. But Man, the H's are all corralled but now they have to travel the equivalent of what Salmon have to overcome to get to their spawning grounds. That is one treacherous route chock full of dangers. Break the bubble and those H atoms will immediately revert back to H2O so you have to do it all over again. It's like driving your manual shift car with the clutch half engaged at all times.

So for me, the problem is not how to pulse but how to produce the most efficient cell design possible. That is where the major advancement will be. If the cell is designed to take full consideration of what the H atom has to go through to leave the water solution intact, then the cells would never resemble what they do now.

Seems to me the H atom is crying out, "Make me and get me out of there quick and I will be your friend forever. But please, just make me once cause this back and forth is very tiring and energy consuming".

If I had a higher quality microscope, I am sure I could video even greater effects like to see how the H bubbles fill up. I imagine the process is like the sperm entering into the egg, there is a capillary action that let's H enter while maintaining the bubble exterior plus while growing with the H volume. 

So based on all the above, what can guys do with their present vertical cells?

The following diagram will shown what I think will be an easy addition for producing H in the same wet cells that are used in water tanks. What is needed is to find the right diameter straws that can be cut and lowered into each cell spacing at let's say 1" from the bottom and then more levels in the same spacing at every inch going up to 1" from the top. This will force the gas to accumulate in the straw channels and by slightly slanting the channels (45 degrees or less) to favour one direction, most of the gas will exit the tank from one side. The channels will ensure the gas is no longer in direct contact with the plates as they accumulate and exit as fast as possible. By reducing the recombination, more of the gas will escape at first creation (debatable - more like the 100th recreation but better then the 1000th or 10000th recreation that may be going on) .

The tank water level will provide a certain head of pressure to hold the air channels inside the straw channels and will help moving the gas out of the channels. New water entering the plate spaces will have a little more turbulence since the air channel will create an oscillation between the water head and the slightly compressed gas and this will help create a certain vibration that will help to keep the plates free of sticky bubbles. Or, at the most I would see a small off center type vibration motor that could be used to keep the plates vibrating. The important thing is once the bubble is made, keep it away from the plates and in a rising formation.

Anyone with an existing system can try this with the least amount of cost and effort and the results should be relayed back to this thread.

wattsup


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I have one old cell that I found in a box that survived the last dismantling, it is the cell that ignites oddly and a newer pump system loop with visual tubing to watch the bubbles. This cell has a bypass tube installed which has corroded, same as the brass non return valves. It is missing a displacement / combustion chamber assembly.

The outlet NRV is not needed if the outlet is raised up the chamber by a fittings height, the bubbles will then exit the outlet before reaching the reservoir inlet NRV height. Sometimes a bubble in the loop will disappear but it does not set them all off, sometimes.. the main charge that has produced the pumping and the bubbles reliably does that through hydraulic shock ignition.

Vertical alignement in the gravitational field is crucial, within reason, to correct action on displacement and bouyancy functions of the cell loop as well as pressure building capability and shockwave transmission throughout the system working fluids is my answer to why build vertical cells.

Any bubble that does "go off" prematurely within an algae slurry achieves the same outcome, if that outcome is the puncturing of the algae cell wall membrane releasing algae lipid oil's into the slurry working fluid. Conjecture on my part at present I admit..

The cell is missing the 1/2 BSP M to 14mm F spark plug thread brass adaptor and the sparkplug, wonder what I did with them ? so that needs replacing and then a HV ignition system and we are back in business! or not.. I think I will donate the cell to Graham to tinker with in his museum, a hho pump might look good sitting next to his very own hho engine..


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Dear Wattsup.

Many thanks for that most detailed and interesting post.

It has also made me wonder, on more than one occasion why there are so few facts available regarding HHO !!

If I have read you correctly the bubble forms and expands ?  How would the addition of something to the water ( question is what? ) that could strengthen the bubble wall ? Pure conjecture, this is not my field !! :) I am just throwing it out there !!

Cheers Grum.


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Very thought provoking wattsup.   O0

So your estimate is that the production rate barely outruns the recombination rate.  And the net rate is rather linear with respect to input wattage.  So if recombination is decreased by half, the net rate is doubled.  That sound about right?

What if the Hydrogen plate had tiny pores that would only allow Hydrogen through them.  Suppose this plate was kept at vacuum, so immediately upon separating from the Oxygen it was pulled through the plate.  Is there such a material having those properties and with the structural integrity to withstand the mechanical stress of the vacuum?  Carbon?  Graphene?  Some form of porous synthetic material that will not allow a liquid to pass through, only a gas?

Obviously the pressure is relative, so the water could be kept under pressure and the gas pushed through to a lower (i.e. atmospheric) pressure.

If something could be found to do this, an order of magnitude in net rate could be had easily.
   

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Dear Matt.

Quite a few years back I built a small experimental cell made from a pair of Aluminium foil plates separated by a 1/4 of an inch from each other. The water was put under slight pressure between these plates and on the other side of the plates I machined a couple of discs to seal and remove the gas, on the dry side.

My train of thought was that the gasses down at the atomic level would be able to pass through the metal matrix. In practice, laughable now, was that as I increased the pressure on the water the foil electrodes ripped open !!  :)

However I remembered that tightly woven metal mesh will not let water through quite so easily, so how about this ?? http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Mesh-400x400-316L/dp/B00DRMFWBU

Just a thought !!

Cheers Grum.


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Wattsup
Your Microscope work is priceless,getting to see the effects of... say the"Keely frequency" as it may apply to GAS production
or even the other frequencies that  may effect volume ...? or even experimenting with surfactants or the very Small lithium soap surfactant[1%] which has been said to effect the Bond strength in the water, Johan-55 says this is one of the reasons he can run such a large percent of water in the Emulsification water /fuel systems.

also, it has been said here that a small vacuum on the cell is interesting?[Johan and Mike N commented].

and of course your comments on wasted energy in the typical HHO cell ..even as it applies to the "phase change pressure"
Which Rob Mason [evolvingape] has mentioned many times as well as utilizing wasted heat.

and lastly and perhaps most relevant at this moment .".time to harvest"  as well as time to use ..it has been said there is a "Decay" which takes place in the first second [or 1/3 second] of Hydrogen which needs MUCH more attention as it applies to available energy and Power

Letting the Hydrogen Lolly gag along as it winds its way to the surface is counter intuitive.
 
It would seem Rob once again hit on a winner with his Design, immediate use of the HHO plasma event internally .

All Great and inspiring insights  O0

very much appreciated

thx
Chet

 
   
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@Matt Watts

Yes, the recombination (recom) rate will be very high, so high since most guys are running these plates at 100s of volts and usually more then 10% duty so the production is very aggressive and the impacts to the bubbles must be devastating enough to create a high percentage of recom. It's basically playing the Hydrogen numbers game. Out of so many, some will survive.

The Hydrogen atom will never leave the tank as a single atom. They have to be packaged in protective bubbles otherwise they will immediately find a complimentary anionic or cationic atom and recombine. When you add KOH, this provides more ions for recombination plus you are actually adding Hydrogen ions as well, so when guys say I produce more with KOH, they are just upping the H numbers game.

A ew days ago I tried putting a thin plastic barrier between the anode and cathode but it was enough to block the potential from passing through hence no H production. The material that could be used as a vertical plate separator has to have enough permeability to let the anode/cathode potential pass but with small enough holes to block the hydrogen from migrating to the other side but this would still not eliminate further contact with the plates, which is not ideal.

The other option is to build horizontal cells that can be stacked as the general diagram shown below. The plates would be only 1/4" to 1/2" high with a freeboard space above to hold the gas and let it exit. Then by stacking the cells, you would just multiply the output accordingly. The only problem with this setup is potential heat build-up in a closed cell but by the same token, these type of cells should never require the same feed supply as the usual vertical full plate cell systems. The important point is the H bubble is produced and rises out immediately.

So to equal the same plate surface as a system using 12" high plates, you would need 1/2" plate cells stacked 24 high and the applied energy would be the same as the regular system but now you would have at least 24 times more output potential since the gas would exit much faster given the recom factor would be very low. The applied energy would still be the same since you would be using the same total plate area.

As another alternative to the short stacked verticals, consider using only two horizontal mesh plates per cell as shown in the last part of my video, that would simplify the building process and still provide quick liberation of H bubbles. My mesh plate is titanium that I had brought in from China and I asked the producer to treat it with iridium and tantalum for a specific water treatment device I am still working on as R&D (hence the black color of my plates), but with much less available time. These plates will last 50 years easy. This type of set-up would eventually replace most known water treatment methods plus it would act as a water steriliser as well. Probably 2-3 more years away, time depending. But, titanium is very expensive.

These guys seem to have a good explanation on why titanium may be a good choice or at least what to watch out for with other metals.
http://www.drive60mpg.com/titaniumhho.html

There is really no other way to go about this and small scale bench tests (this Forums' forté) with all the variables would be easy for a number of guys to undertake some level of R&D without risking major blow outs. But regardless, the answer is in the cell. Pulsing methods do provide some effect but you do not need all that effect to create H bubbles and at some point, more energy could push the H bubbles to break apart even more.

I'll put up a new video hopefully by tonight since I took many short videos and will put them in one or two more youtubes. One of them just freaked me totally out when I saw it. Another will show the effect of duty and frequency. The thing to remember is the actual atomic level is probably a million times smaller then what we can see in the videos with my microscope. So, my take on this for guys at the @LB thread is - go for the circuit since these are always useful, but for the cell, maybe wait and do some bench scale tests first before going all out with a much more expensive build. I personally think that flyback will be the best pulse method. If you can increase the H production with the same feed power, the OU aspect should get closer and closer.

These days, I am more immersed in my research into the atomic construct and the inconsistencies we have been taught that pushed me to look into the H question thanks to @LB. The impact of this will be far reaching into so many aspects of our present science so I have very limited time to allocate only to H production. What I am proposing here is just another way of looking at the H problem and maybe will give some guys ideas in other directions. Can't ask for more then that.

wattsup

PS: I am putting these general drawings here so that no one would be able to patent these ideas should they be patentable. Don't know, don't care.


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@all

Here is Hydrogen 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjbGTjE0i7o

Hydrogen 3 will be up tonight and will show duty and frequency.

I will try to find some closer lens as I would really like to see a real good close up of how the hydrogen bubble grows. hehehe

wattsup



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Hi Wattsup,

thanks for the videos, they are interesting, but be careful what you see into them.

I have attached a pdf for you to read, it will explain what happens as far as recombination is concerned. The hydrogen atom is the simplest but also does some not always expected things.

When you say recombination! are you saying that it recombines back to water?

It may recombine back to water but not until it has past through other combinations, and infact it is more likly to combine with itself forming H2, as combining with oxygen the reaction happens as 2H+O2=H2O2 hydrogen peroxide.
This decomposses instantly in water if no other chemicals are pressent to stabalise it, so you then have H2 and O2 gas.

H2 and O2 gas only recombine into water if you apply energy "such as burning it, but not the only way".

Atomic hydrogen only has a life of 350msec+-, but it can be extended as talked about in the pdf

It is a very complicated field which I have been learning about for quite some years, as my main aim is producing other hydrogen fuels (hydrocarbons) in an eco friendly way by recycling the carbon from burning it in the first place.

Hope this has helped a little O0

regards

Mike 8)


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The hhop burns the gas in the chamber to initiate the reaction, and also transmits the energy via hydraulic shock to the gas bubbles, which then burn. You can demonstrate this for yourselves by building one and observing, high speed video recording would help a lot. Alternatively do a lot of runs and allow your mind to build a montage as it records subtle details on each run.

The bubbles float in a semi elastic hydraulic fluid which makes it and them resonant.

You cannot achieve simultaneous detonation of the hho charge in the gas chamber via spark methods, even HV multi spark ignition won't do it for you.

http://www.onedirt.com/news/msd-101-learning-about-multi-spark/


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Does anyone know more about Solar Hydrogen Trends LLc, or have they gone off the radar?

regards

Mike 8)


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Last I spoke with Jack they were pushing hard to move forward .However , I did read recently they were looking in the 120 million price range for some type of marketing "Package" ??

?

I will take a look for the specific information to make sure I get that right.

thx
Chet

 
   

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Last I spoke with Jack they were pushing hard to move forward .However , I did read recently they were looking in the 120 million price range for some type of marketing "Package" ??

?

I will take a look for the specific information to make sure I get that right.

thx
Chet

 

That is big money, 120M$, but if the system works as stated then worth every cent

regards

Mike 8)


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http://solarhydrogentrends.com/

According to TRC Solutions test, on input of 415 watts, the mini reactor produces an output of 7,369 cubic feet of hydrogen per hour (electricity equivalent of 626 kWh). The estimated cost of inputs is $1.68 per hour.

According to AirKinetics test, on input of 500 watts, the mini reactor produces an output of 2,797 cubic feet of hydrogen per hour (electricity equivalent of 237 kWh). The estimated cost of inputs is $1.80 per hour.

The range of differences in results needs explaining before anyone is going to front $120m.

The flow rates and purity are exciting, as is the energy cost $.


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http://solarhydrogentrends.com/

According to TRC Solutions test, on input of 415 watts, the mini reactor produces an output of 7,369 cubic feet of hydrogen per hour (electricity equivalent of 626 kWh). The estimated cost of inputs is $1.68 per hour.

According to AirKinetics test, on input of 500 watts, the mini reactor produces an output of 2,797 cubic feet of hydrogen per hour (electricity equivalent of 237 kWh). The estimated cost of inputs is $1.80 per hour.

The range of differences in results needs explaining before anyone is going to front $120m.

The flow rates and purity are exciting, as is the energy cost $.

It seems that the reactor has been tweaked between the dates of test and different centres of analysis. Both centres are accredited which is good, flow rates can be difficult to take if the right equipment is not used, but still the lower rate is impressive. I would have thought at that flow rate for an hour, that a burn off stack would have been needed :D  the risk of explosion with that volume in air would be huge.

The no oxygen is simple and more or less stated, "oxidation", there is no change to hydrogen even if it may be implied as a possibility by LENR, the numbers do not add up for that one. So if there is oxidation then there  are two things to consider, 1.  some thing is oxidised "change of state" 2.   something is consumed "the item oxidised". This is not a problem, but would require maintenance.

Multi frequency and electromagnetic input are two items stated that take place, and of course electrolysis.

A catalyst is also mentioned, as these are normally not consummed, then I would take it as the type of electrolyte with the only input being water keeping it at it's concentration, "an ionic source".

Now the problem I have, because I have come up against it, is how can they extract the hydrogen fast enough from the water without using a vacuum? this then gives it's own problem of maintaining the vacuum at such an expansion rate of the evolving hydrogen!!! you would need a vacuum/compressor combined, that would skew your flow rates and why there are two very different test results :-\

All food for thought and I'm just mewsing ;)

regards

Mike 8)


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The cavitation bubble can do.. ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP-l0Lgp4J4

A hho bubble collapsing might have similar properties to a cavitation bubble, that could be exploited as a secondary fuel processing technology (biodiesel).

The Vogt engine is similar to the hhop in many ways and could run on a hydrogen fuel.

http://www.overunity.com/13896/hho-hydrogen-and-diesel-injection-the-truth/msg379840/#msg379840


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Group: Experimentalist
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The cavitation bubble can do.. ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP-l0Lgp4J4

A hho bubble collapsing might have similar properties to a cavitation bubble, that could be exploited as a secondary fuel processing technology (biodiesel).

The Vogt engine is similar to the hhop in many ways and could run on a hydrogen fuel.

http://www.overunity.com/13896/hho-hydrogen-and-diesel-injection-the-truth/msg379840/#msg379840

Yes they mentioned cavitation as well, I will have to think more about that in relation to Hydrogen Trends reactor ???

The Vogt and your hhop rock O0

regards

Mike 8)


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Buy me a cigar
Dear Mike.

As a newcomer to this field, with little knowledge, how would pressurising the cell and then releasing said pressure work ?  I envisage a massive release of gas just like opening a bottle of fizzy POP !!

You could fit a single piston pump with lip seal and apply pressure then release this pressure the piston opening a delivery port.

My own musings !!  :)

Cheers Graham. 


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The Vogt and your hhop rock O0

regards

Mike 8)

Thanks Mike. I found out about the Vogt water engine recently when Graham told me about it, way after development of the hhop.

The Pulsometer was the base template for the hhop development, the major difference being the gas tube cell sleeved through the centre of the chamber.

The advanced shhop versions only have one moving part, an NRV on the inlet, and use the atmosphere as the gas spring.

An oil separator on the outlet reservoir and we get Oilgae product for biodiesel.

A piezoelectric transducer in the chamber generating an ultrasonic waveform at the d / c piston liquid piston surface, will generate atomised raw Oilgae which may be suitable for combustion.. ?

Very High Voltage Ignition 2 - 3 kV+ along the exposed electrode tube cell walls will probably trigger the combustion process of the liquid water vapour and steam.. ?

Liquid piston seals don't leak, ever  :)


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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@all

I forgot to post my Hydrogen 3 video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0mrzY3LGkU

I think I also got an idea for open cell systems (not dry cell).

From what I can see close up, the speed to hydrogen production is relative to the level of bubbles that can leave the plate surface fast enough to permit more water contact with the plate since from there the reaction from water to H is instantaneous but the level goes down as bubbles keep sticking to the plate surface.

So my thinking is to take two horizontal titanium mesh plates like in the last portion of my Hydrogen 1 video. These plates would be horizontal and at each end I would mount the plates into a suitable flotation form so the the cell will be floating slightly below the water/air line in the tank. The flotation device will cover the plate and have a hole or slit in the center.

Once bubbles start forming this will change the buoyancy of the water that will create a downward momentum of the plates that could be aggressive enough to work any sticky bubbles off the plates. This up and down movement can be achieved at no additional energy cost and still provide some level of "free debubbling". I noticed this when I have tried shaking the plates by hand and have noticed more H production. Such floating plates could be designed to simply drop onto a lake or any other water source to produce H on the spot.

The floating plate system reminds me of many years ago I tendered for a Canadian Army request for a Mobile Water Treatment System. It had to be in modules of 200lbs max, assembled in 20 minutes and supply water from any local source for 1000 soldiers. It took me 3 months in those days I was using Win 95 and GemDraw and it took 15 seconds just to pan down a page. In order to accomplish this, I had negotiated with a high pressure pump manufacturer to make some changes to a certain model pump and they agreed it could be done. I supplied the tender and at the tender opening date, was advised the tender was cancelled and that I was the only one who tendered. 5 years later I see on the News, CDN Army in Bosnia unloading a MWTS and jumped up and said "Hey that's my exact design, those are the modules I designed." I found out that the CDN Army then sole sourced this to a company in Ontario and they sold for millions of bucks of equipment. My company was never invited to any other tenders. They just stole my work and had the systems made by one of their money friends. The design also included a floating pump that could be thrown into any open water supply. Anyways.....

The other thing for bigger wet cells is you may need a vibration source. Have some people used a vibration motor mounted to the tank so its vibrations could keep the plates free of stickies?

About dry cells, I am also wondering if anyone has tried to take a few turns of copper insulated wire to make an antenna loop that can simply be lowered around the cell and scoped, or, tanked to an led. Then try other coil types and positions. Since those plates are pulsing, may as well see if they can turn a few copper atoms at the same time for energy recovery. I am sure anything pulsing at 12-24 volts and 10-20 amps has a lot to sing about that pickup coils will just love. This would open a whole new area of research when running dry cells. I can see it now, "H Dry Cells - Now with DC Recovery!!!". hehehe

wattsup



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