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Author Topic: A look at Arie De Geus Patent No 1032759  (Read 54550 times)
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What do the two output voltages look like?  Is there a difference between their amplitudes?   Is one voltage 3 times the amplitude of the other so that the difference is 2 times.  What I am getting at is that although A and B are in phase, if B is 3 times A then you have exactly what Arie is saying, there is twice the A voltage across the transmission line.  From the transmission line perspective that is like a balanced line relative to ground with positive and negative voltages, whereas in fact it is not relative to ground.  Just a thought.  It's what goes on inside the transmission line that is important.

Smudge

Smudge,

At first reading of the patent, I thought that a singular output of either phase would be 2x the input but after more study of Fig 1b, it it appears he is referencing the difference between the two 180 degree out-of-phase signals. Each would then each be equal to the input in amplitude but with the 180 degree phase difference.

I also respectively disagree on the generator connections because of what DeGeus says in claim 16.  "16. A Method and Apparatus, as in any of the preceding claims, wherein the power end of the winding, which is not connected to said voltage source, an 'open' direct from-end."  My interpretation of this is that the hot lead of the generator is connected to the coil lead, not the junction of the caps. I realize this is in conflict with his drawings which seem to indicate that the ground connection should go to the coil lead but in my little setup (which maybe should be taken with a grain of salt), it only works with the generator hot connected to the coil.

Regards,
partzman
   

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why does my 3ns wide pulse get smeared out to this ugly 200ns or so reflection pluse?  Capacitance?)
Because you have multiple reflection points.
Each time your twin wire separated while winding/unwinding, it changed the distance between the conductors and changed the characteristic impedance.
Wherever the characteristic impedance changes, a reflection occurs.  These reflections superimpose and smear your stimulating nanopulse.

You can play with the wire spacing using a toothpick and observe the changes in these microreflections while doing your TDR experiment with nanopulses.

P.S.
You probably realize what happened and why I am almost absent from the forum.
   

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Right, so when having a good quality dual bonded wire we would not have this effect.
I don't think i can manipulate this present dual wire to be more "in line", so will leave it this way.

P.S.
yes, i understand, magical times, i hope all went and is well.

Regards Itsu
   

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After working on the earlier video above, i decided to also scope the input signal from the FG.
It showed that during the resonance peaks, the 2 output signals (yellow and blue) are shifting phase compared to the FG input signal (purple).

There is an almost 180° phase shift across the resonance, with a 85° shift during resonance, see below screenshot

A video showing this can be seen here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzp-bE_Tjok&feature=youtu.be

So we have phase shifts during resonances, but between the input and output signals, not between the output signals.
Looks like the output signals are very tightly coupled somehow.

Regards Itsu
   

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The 85 (almost 90) degree phase shift is to be expected.  Also the tight coupling between the output signals because the two conductors are so tightly coupled.  It is Arie's talk of energy travelling down the transmission line which is of interest since it is there that the interaction with the aether takes place according to his theory.  And it must be possible to send energy down that line and that is what I was concentrating on.  Of course you could connect one wire to earth and drive the other wire to find that line resonance as in the image below.  You lose the voltage magnification available from the LC resonance but this should tell you something about the transmission line used as a resonator.  Looking at your earlier reflected picosecond pulse distortion and amplitude I think you may find this is a poor resonance that is quite broad in frequency response indicating significant losses.  That may give you a clue as to why that line resonance does not appear to influence your results, perhaps the resonances you have seen have all been associated with the LC.

Smudge
   

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Smudge,


Quote
perhaps the resonances you have seen have all been associated with the LC

thats what i was thinking too when the first resonance point was shifting when lowering the capacitance.

But with the above given information, it should be possible to calculate the transmission line resonance, like you did before (820 or 823 KHz.).

A quick look using your above diagram (smudge 1b) does not show any resonance points  :D
Have to go now,  will investigate more later today/evening.

Regards Itsu  
« Last Edit: 2015-04-28, 12:33:00 by Itsu »
   

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I did some further investigations, and found that after increasing the FG amplitude to 20Vpp i have some responses  (200mV pp range).

These responses are no clear resonance peaks, but more like a dip followed by a slight increase.

I found the following points (in the video they might be somewhat different due to me being close to the coils):

1403KHz
3771KHz
5604KHz
7098KHz
8603KHz
etc.

The use of different capacitors for c1 (10PF in the video, but earlier i used 1.8pF) seems to have no influence on these frequency points.

Video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTfELHmrvOc&feature=youtu.be  

Regards Itsu

« Last Edit: 2015-04-28, 16:53:34 by Itsu »
   

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t would be interesting to see whether a short at the end of the line works better.  The problem with an open circuit is that the distributed capacitance between the wires that is responsible for the line characteristic doesn't suddenly stop when you reach the end, you get field lines that represent stray capacitance across the end as illustrated below.  That will have a smearing effect on any resonance.  IMO, although a shorted line will also exhibit stray magnetic field lines associated with the shorting wire, they will have much less effect.  I also have the sneaking feeling that the open end can propagate backward electric waves that do not travel inside the line, but rather outside, perhaps between the larger spacing of adjacent turns in your coil.  You may find the shorted line exhibits a better series of resonances associated with multiples of a quarter wavelength.

Smudge
   

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Looking at your video the ground connection for the voltage divider seems to be via the scope.  I would have connected the divider to the grounded end of the coil so as not to have an enormous inductive loop in that ground connection.  Don't know whether that makes a difference.

Smudge
   

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I did short the top leads before, and it did not make any difference in either amplitude or frequency.   Just did it again, but again no change from the open ended circuit.

Also i used earlier a cliplead to connect the 1mOhm ground side to the FG ground without noticing any difference.
I now have that ground side of the 1MOhm resistor soldered to the ground connection, again without any change.

I extended the search for resonance points with these results:

 
1403KHz
3771KHz
5604KHz
7098KHz
8603KHz
10006 "
11396 "
12746 "
14126 "
15536 "

So we have a difference of about 1400KHz   (1 full wave?).

Regards Itsu
   
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Hey Guys...
       I just saw this thread after researching American electrical patents for an hour or more.   What I saw was similar to what you are working in in the way of transformers in order to increase power output from these transformers.   Really.   I've often wondered how is was that these inventors didn't see some of the overunity aspects that you're tying diligently to achieve.
       If I can find more time during my personal schedule, I'll try and show you what I mean by upload some of the patents I saw.   Time's   short on this computer, so I'll go.

I'll try to get back later.   You can e-mail me, since I try and check my Yahoo! account every day, if I can.

--Lee
   
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Hi the_big_m,

I'm always interested in transformer patents. If you want to trade some around, let me know, I probably have about 100 of interest.
Also interested in your search methods, maybe we can compare notes.

orthofield
   

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Assuming this 1400KHz is the full wave resonance point of the transmission line (which i cannot relate to the measured 1.07us (2-way) pulse),
i tried to match the LC resonance to this same 1400KHz, but unfortunately, i ran out of capacitance.

When using the minimum possible capacitance, being the red FG probe laying close to the both bottom coil contacts (estimated capacitance 1pF) i reach 1303KHz  :( .

The signals (yellow and blue) shown across the 1MOhm resistors are 3Vpp each in phase with each other with an FG input of 20Vpp (purple)

Shortening or lengthening the coil (inductance) would not help as then also the transmission line resonance frequency would move.
 

Would using a coax cable as coil be of any use?   Like using 100m of RG316 coax, it would fit in almost the same space as the present coil.
We would be able to more accurately pinpoint its transmission line resonance point.


Regards itsu



   
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"Hi the_big_m,
I'm always interested in transformer patents. If you want to trade some around, let me know, I probably have about 100 of interest."
       Good to hear from you, orthofield.
The transformer patents I'm looking for may also---just guessing?---have diagrams in three dimensions, at the start(first pg. on newer patents) page, that may be conceivably added, or else replace the functioning aspect, of a free energy antenna on a very large scale with the same pattern in the large scale wiring pattern, in the field, as in the original transformer.
       I've seen some interesting examples, so I'll try and give the 'Web address to a few.

"Also interested in your search methods, maybe we can compare notes."
       I have only a Library computer to do research on.   But, I'm about the only patron that does research regularly on patents in this town.  The dedicated computer is usually just sitting there, near the Reference Desk, so In can sit at the computer until my butt hurts on the library chair I sit in, or I get hungry---or need to use the restroom.
       The peculiar software with this computer allows searches by Patent Number,  Author of the Patent, date Filed, date Granted, as well as language in the introduction on the first page, usually.   That the thing I start with.   Here's the address...

http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search

Okay, then.   Anyone can start with that, depending on the available information one has at the outset.  I may have a number left over from a previous session, or I can specify actual search arguments on the top line in the default "Words" Section.  Words I can use might be...

       "cross wound"  "over unity"  "coil turns"  'high voltage"  "3-dimensional transformer", etc.

Use your imagination---or also---describe language you liked from Patent Titles that you thought were of interest to you in the past.

So, I think you might understand?   That's how I do research, since I'm somewhat  limited in what I'm allowed to do with the software suite I have to use when I sit down at the computer.

Questions? Comments fro yourself or anyone who reads this?
       --Lee
   
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Hi the_big_m,

The transformer patents you mention sound almost like some sort of fractal transformer. The 3 D transformer reminds me of the Meretsky patent, US4210959, "Inductive Device With Orthogonal Windings" but this is certainly not an antenna as such. It does have some unusual properties according to tests. McCreary US2445847 and his other patents are also interesting in this regard. And then there is the famous Wanlass parametric transformer, US3654546 and others.

There are a large group of these cross coil devices and they either were used as a parametric or reactive current control devices, or-- with a movable third coil-- as antenna tickle coils, or variable couplers.

Yes, I used to do a lot of research in the U. of Washington Engineering Library, where I would nail down a computer with my butt and then research until I couldn't stand it any more. If I got up there would inevitably be a student there when I got back. Originally when I started doing patent research in the late 80s the patent database was on nothing but a microfiche reader, so I would go to the library with a list of all the classes I was interested in and scroll through them, stopping to print. I still have a wall of paper from that period.

Now of course most things can be done online. I used Google Advanced Patent, Espacenet Advanced Search, and sometimes the USPTO class search page. Each has advantages and disadvantages. Google Advanced Patent uses an OCR like program to read the patents so a lot of older inventor's names are garbled, and often the program will not give truly all of the patents. Class coverage is also nonexistent before about 1920. USPTO class coverage is perfect but the interface is cludgy. Espacenet covers patents from 80 countries, but only goes back to 1920 in most cases.
 
Unless I have a certain patent that I'm looking for, I use class searches almost exclusively. For instance, the Daniel McFarland Cook patent was originally found by doing a class search on USPTO of the entire patent class of "inductors" (336), from the start of the patent system in the 1790s-- So I had looked at some half a thousand patents one at a time before running into that one!
It never would have turned up otherwise, since Cook's name is garbled on Google Patent, and the patent doesn't appear with a name or class on Espacenet.

Especially useful are class searches on Espacenet. Espacenet has classes specifically for rotary, solid state, and hydraulic/pneumatic "perpetual motion machines" as well as special classes for all sorts of electrical machines that don't fit into usual categories.  The most important of these classes are H02K53/00, for rotary free energy devices, and H02N11/00 for solid state free energy devices. Between these two categories there are about 20,000 patents that claim overunity, with only about 200 of them ever having been discussed in any forum or book. Go to

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP

and plug in H02N11/00 on the IPC line to have some serious fun :-)

orthofield
   
Group: Guest
Hey, orthofield,
       I have to cut short my reply to you for lack of time remaining on this borrowed computer.
I like your referenced Patent 3654546.   So much so, I copied a printout from the library's Internet computer's software suite for a reference.
       Will return later for more discussion in, say, a day or two(?)   I haven't felt well for the last few weeks, but I do the best I can.

--Lee
   

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I rewind my coils today using no space in between the turns like indicated in the patent, see picture.

First measurements show:

capacity 25nF
both coils inductance 1.743mH
Forth and back pulse time 1.01us, so 0.505us single route = 1980.2KHz (1/2 wave resonance point = 909.1KHz).
First LC resonance point with 10pF capacitors found was 880KHz.

Will trim the capacitor down so the LC resonance point matches the 1/2 wave resonance point at 990.1KHz.

Regards  itsu
 



   

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Hi Itsu,

I have been playing with 5Spice looking into getting the 180 degree phase shift across the input to the delay line.  I have to say that the analysis agrees with your findings.  However it is possible to get what you want if the input source can float off ground.  See attached schematic and analysis.  The analysis shows the AC voltage building up to eventually reach a high value because there is no real line loss.  The 1M and 10M resistors are there because 5Spice demands that there be a DC path to ground at every node. Of course this is not your line parameters, I just modeled a 10 element delay line using arbitrary values.  Enjoy!!

Smudge
   

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Hi Smudge,

thanks for taking the time to model that.

So under the right conditions, we should see some gain, that increasing amplitude looks promising

Regards Itsu
   

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The increasing amplitude is because I did not model losses.  This is not OU, it is what any high Q system would do.  I did not follow Arie's explanation for coupling to the aether inside the delay line so I would be surprised if you do get anomalous gain, but that is always the hope.

Smudge
   

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Ok,  so this is not what would happen under this 180° phase shift condition, but under no loss conditions. 


Thanks,  itsu
   

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With this new closely wounded coil, i have the same problem as mentioned in post #88 above; i ran out of capacitance.

With the setup from Smudge in post #80 i again found traces of transmission line resonance at multiples of 1350Khz with this new coil

2714
4184
5523
6833 KHz.

The LC resonance when trimming the capacitor reaches 1127KHz, at which point i have no capacitor left to trim.

So i cannot match the LC resonance point (1127KHz) with the standing wave resonance point (1350KHz) of the transmission line to get this 180° phase shift.

Still thinking of using RG316 coax cable to redo this test.


Regards Itsu


   

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Buy me some coffee
Hi Itsu
Great to see you working away on this, amazing how low your frequency is compared to what he says in the patent.

Still trying to get energy and time to finish a larger coil, i am tempted to wire the bifilar in bucking mode, treat it as one coil with a series capacitance, add a series resistor to monitor the current and phase and then work out it's efficiency at different resonant points, as i did with Smudges device i tested.

The idea being i should meet the patents requirement for the bifilar phases with a simple setup to work out efficiency and cop.

Regards
Peter
   

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Peter,

i have no luck in obtaining any phase shift between the both coils, and as that is the number one requirement, i cannot continue.

So hopefully you have more results with that approach, good luck.

Regards Itsu.
   

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Itsu,

You might try the scheme I posted in reply #93.  This does require the input to be balanced so you could try to build the balun that I posted in rely #52 if you have some toroidal cores available.  That gives you the balanced feed that you require (i.e. 180 degree phase shift between the two wires) and that feeds directly to the transmission line via the capacitors that need adjusting for optimum performance.

Smudge
   
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