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Author Topic: Constant Shifting center of mass motor  (Read 42664 times)
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Anyone like to help me make this into reality?  I usually work with magnets (for those that are familiar with my work, they are way too expensive) but this needs some attention and or constructive criticism.  The entire model has been loaded up on SketchUp called the Constant Shifting Center of mass Motor 1.  We all know that gravity is a downward force, the normal force however counteracts that and is upward.  The mass on the right side is in free fall, while the mass on the other side is divided, by divided I mean a portion of its weight is on the arm, a portion of its weight is down the opposite direction and another portion is supported by the frame track and is only being rolled up-hill, that portion is not on the rotor and is subtracted from the equation.  It's center of mass is to the bottom right and in attempting to reach equilibrium, it is placed right back into an unbalanced state so there is a constant torque in one direction.  Friction, Yes, constant state of imbalance, Yes. And...yes there is a connecting base not pictured, that secures the white track to the grey folding arm.
http://www.100kgarages.com/job.php?fabberId=&jobId=588
Constant Shifting Center of Mass Prototype Mike 1
« Last Edit: 2015-06-08, 17:21:43 by Overboard »
   
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OverBoard
good to see you here,  your link goes to a garage Site .

is there a sign in or additional navigation required ?

Thx

Chet
   
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It is on the project board, I think you need to be registered to view it, here is the Gogle SketchUp model link for those familiar with the program, it is all I have to share with my "primitive" tools and abilities.
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u8e45237a-4c33-4043-a5ee-85bca7aa74e8
I don't know how the shaft got misaligned, it was correct when I uploaded it (I fixed it and uploaded the correct model) only moving parts are bearings on the shaft and arms like rollers and the arms have hinges.  The longer the arms are made the greater the leverage. Thanks Chet, good to be back again, though I never really left.  
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 16:54:55 by Overboard »
   
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It certainly would be nice if someone..anyone if not the Physics Prof himself would spend just a few minutes to look at this, just for a moment and draw in all of the force arrows on each arm in relation to the rotor and bearings.  Too late, public domain now.
« Last Edit: 2015-04-03, 23:06:04 by Overboard »
   
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hello overboard

I use a free program called PicPick to take screen shots and it is has many features. Why not just post a picture so everyone knows what your talking about?. I have built many of these type of machines and it helps to talk to people who have been down this road. If you post a pic I will do my best to help.

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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I figured out how to upload the pics, I attached 11 15 14 different views.  What do ya think looks good at least.  Hope to get an "A" for effort.
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 15:37:54 by Overboard »
   
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:P
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 13:34:20 by Overboard »
   
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You need second force. Better try with magnets and kind of ratchet device   O0
   
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 O0 Sorry forest. I disagree, the normal force, gravity, and torque is enough, or could you please explain to me how you came to that conclusion?  There is already more than one force involved, at least 3 already, right?  If the length of the arms or the weight is increased, then the difference of weight producing the rotational torque on the the rotor increases proportionally just like increasing the arm length of a lever in relation to its fulcrum.  Please view the three additional pics I uploaded 12, 13 and 14.   Still, it can only be proven when built right?  I am looking for someone to help by the way.  Can you build it?  You seem to think it just will not work, how much would you charge me to build it for me?  It does not matter if those end weights are 1 ounce, 1 pound or 1 ton, its center of balance is always to the right side, forced by design.  Look at it again, in order for a water wheel to work, the water must dump out of the bottom bucket, in order for this to work its is not lifted it is only supported by the normal force.
« Last Edit: 2015-04-07, 00:28:19 by Overboard »
   
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Constantly shifting center of mass theory 1.jpg will not move at all...It is balanced and its center of mass rests at the center of the rotor.  Please look at it again, any of the mass that is supported by the normal force of the track on the left, means the right side does in fact weigh more with respect to the rotor bearings.
« Last Edit: 2015-04-09, 02:23:31 by Overboard »
   
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Like I said, Public domain now. This is not the same old sht Allcanadian.
   
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@overboard
Quote
Like I said, Public domain now. This is not the same old sht Allcanadian.

Sorry I didn't post back but I never did see your pictures here. In any case the first issue we encounter with these kinds of devices is that as the mass moves outward from the center of rotation it's velocity thus it's momentum increases in proportion to the distance from center. This is the old figure skater thing... arms out slow down arms in speed up and momentum is conserved. As well if you place the mass on a lever the fulcrum of the lever attached to the disk produces the same effect at the center of rotation.

The thing to remember is all the elements moving about the point of rotation may appear to act independently but all must be attached thus all are bound to that system. I have been all through this, done all the experiments for real... no simulators... and threw everything I had at it and came up short. I have went through hundreds of designs many I literally knew must work but when I built them unfortunately none did.

So my only advice would be to say if you have actually built it and it works then your the man however if you are depending on a simulation then you might want to ready yourself for a bit of disappointment. However in either case we usually learn some valuable lessons and I consider it time well spent.

I have little interest in this kind of device anymore however I have learned a few tricks I could share. First any mass attached to the disk or center of rotation which moves away or towards the center undergoes a change in momentum which translates back to the center. Did you get that?, I'm guessing no... mass attached to center ...change in momentum. However there is no rule saying it must always be attached to the disk thus the center and if it ever became detached from the disk for any period then it has left the inertial/momentum system. I believe this is what Johann Bessler was doing and if the rules say it cannot work then obviously we need to change the rules.

My rules... any mass which moves to the exact center of rotation is no longer in the inertial system. Any mass which becomes detached from the center of rotation is considered to be no longer in the inertial system for the duration it has become detached from the system. Case in point... Johann Bessler... a mass falls from the wheel then falls hitting a spring at the neutral center of rotation and bounces to another point on the wheel. Thus for a period of time the mass must be considered as completely outside the closed system for the duration of the time it is in the air during the bounce. You see we have introduced a new variable which is time outside the context of the system.

The lesson here is that we are only limited by our creativity in solving a problem not by some numbers man who couldn't think there way out of a paper bag. Me I improve everything I come into contact with, it's easy and comes naturally unfortunately some people have gone through their whole lives and never really improved anything. What we know doesn't mean jack shit unless we can improve on what others have done otherwise we are no better than them and we have done nothing. Progress matters.

Sorry for the rant :D

AC
« Last Edit: 2015-04-09, 05:34:09 by Allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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@overboard
For some very strange reason when I refreshed my page your pictures showed up. I think your going to be disappointed my friend for reasons I explained in my last post. Granted I could be wrong but from what I can see the arm and mass are directly attached to the center of rotation moving inward outward. I think your wrong but this is good and the right is in the fact you made the effort to contemplate how this could be done. It is not the destination but the journey where we actually learn something new... new matters because if it isn't new or different then it isn't progress.

Now consider a wheel and a mass, I mean it seems apparent there are only so many things we could do to change the way things must play out. It is heavier on one side then rotates then stops after rocking back and forth a few times. That is all the layman can see, they are bound to their own little world of mediocrity and blatant simplicity. However that is not who Johann Bessler was and if you read his biography and the literature you will find he was a creative problem solver. That is he was an artist of his craft while most cannot even draw a simple circle let alone a masterpiece. Yes I am an engineer but what I do is my art, I live and breath this shit and operate on a level most cannot even imagine.

So don't buy the BS most peddle, do your own thing, find your own way and you will make progress. They cannot help you.
Create something new something different, make this your art and never look back.

AC



---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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You rock Allcanadian, thank you for your honest yet constructive input.  Although I have already read all about Johann Bessler, I know that I am certainly not him at all, and even if I was correct all along with my new design, I would never take that design knowledge to my grave.  It is public domain now.  Wrong or right.  Please down-load the model and advise others to do so as well, just in case!  Who knows?  This design came to me in a dream and I saw it operating there, every last detail, I then frantically plotted out the 3D image the best that I could.  At least it works in my dreams, one side is in free-fall, the other side supported partially by the normal force, overbalanced by design, just like an ever changing see-saw, the heavy kid always does the work,  I learned that as a child.
   
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Gravity is a force...just like the blowing wind, it will only take time to determine how to make a fan blade that is sensitive to it.  That is what you recognized and understood very well.  Time to stop letting Valeriy advertise for himself here.  For Free.
   
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Hey overboard

I'm pleased you liked my rant, lol, concerning your dreams many people say they mean nothing however in fact they do in real science ie.. psychology. It is known that our mind discards 95% of what our senses perceive and distorts the remaining 5% thus were all a little crazy and biased it's just that were in denial. Dreams are a way for our subconscious mind to reconcile our conscious thoughts which cannot be reconciled ie.. that nagging problem which makes no sense but we intuitively know is somehow important. Most people don't know this nor understand it but this state can be induced while awake when we clear our mind completely of all distractions and focus on the problem with an open mind. I would even go so far as to call it daydreaming, Ah now it makes sense doesn't it?.

You see we are taught to think a certain way by society and superficial people have simplistic thoughts about simple things which relate to others opinions of them. Intelligent people don't care what other people think they just want facts and answers to their questions. So this is a very good sign that your subconscious mind is trying to solve complex problems, very good indeed. My only advice here would be not to try too hard but just let it happen, keep it in the back of your mind however don't let it consume your thoughts. It is a strange thing that in many cases we already know the answers however our conscious mind will not allow us to accept them. Thus in many ways our answers are simply an acceptance of things we already know intuitively ie... our subconscious mind, that part which perceives the other 95% of reality that we have ignored. Which puts a new spin on that old phrase... We are much smarter than we think, lol.

Maybe we should solve this overbalanced wheel problem right here in your thread, I mean it's a few hundred years overdue... why not?. Lets see where this takes us, you and I. Ask me a question and I will do my best to answer it.

AC



---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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O. K. , so we all know that the holy grail is born from the historic water wheel.  It is the original gravity wheel long before Bessler could ever take it with him to his grave, for that I feel he is no hero at all.  It does not matter if it is an an over or undershot wheel, it all reveals a source of "head" filling buckets which release the water at the bottom making one side heavier than the other.  The catch is making one side heavier than another, which is easier to do than you think with the normal force.  If you believe in this, than please look at my new design again one more time, because it is always unbalanced and it can never reach a balance point regardless if you believe it or not.  Public domain info.  It's about time.
   
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Regardless if you believe it or not.  Public domain info now. :D Do not let anyone make you give up your dreams.  I saw your designs, and I knew you had the same hope as I do.  Only, they trampled it under their feet.  Valirey could not build this if he believed in it nor wanted to.  Because he only copies other peoples ideas and is a true fraud asking for people to come visit his store.  Please Valirey, do you have an original idea of your own?  No he does not.
   
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I am not a newbie, you have no idea how long I have been here.
   
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I was looking at the pictures again and picture 12, Increased Arm Length or Weight Leverage Torque 12.jpg was one design I had also considered a few years ago. It seemed to me moving the lever/mass in/out from the center perpendicular to the rotation might remove most of the inertial effects. However it still acts not unlike a centrifugal clutch in that the change in momentum of the mass still translates back to the point of attachment of the mass.

On the right we have what we could call the falling mass and on the left we have equal masses being dragged up an inclined plane. So really it is not much different than the proverbial mass on a chain device where one half is dragged up an inclined plane while the other half is falling.

Later my thoughts moved towards the concept of having the mass disappear from the system all together versus trying to produce differential forces. In fact at one point I thought I had solved the problem and it seemed quite easy on the surface. Bessler and many others called it the "universal motion" whereby energy in one element may be transformed into another form thus appears to disappear in relation to the other elements. Here we are not concerned so much with mass nor inertia relating to velocity but the conditions surrounding the nature of the mass. Such as the construct of weight and that a free falling mass has no weight no more than a mass in space has weight, that property relating to a condition has ceased to exist.

Interesting stuff

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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And so we start thinking about the construct of weight... Ah weight. You see when we build an overbalanced wheel the heavy side falls just as the lighter side rises which tells us the heavy side must lose weight just as the lighter side must gain weight. At which point if we are thinking clearly we might ask is this really what we want to be doing because it would seem to be a losing proposition from both sides of the scale?. To me it would seem to be all backwards because if we hope to gain something then always losing as much as we gain would seem to be a losing proposition wouldn't it?. As if to say yes I am walking two meters/sec forward on an escalator moving two meters/sec backwards however I do not seem to be going anywhere and we are not going anywhere...literally.

People are odd however nature is not, it is what it is if you choose to see it for what it is, it is simple in it's nature even though we are not. What most do no see is that we generally lose twice for every step forward because they read textbooks instead of observing nature, comprehending how it works and coping it. It is a vicious circle we have created for ourselves.... running backwards.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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      "yes,  I am walking two meters/sec forward on an escalator moving two meters/sec backwards...however, I do not seem to be going anywhere and we are not going anywhere...literally"...the escalator is still moving isn't it?...The kinetic motion or energy is then transferred to the escalator, regardless  if you move or not, correct?  

     In this instance you still have motion, But not from a driven escalator motor with a different power source.  I would love to see the design you spoke of, similar to my picture  "Increased Arm Length or Weight Leverage Torque 12.jpg" which was one design that you had also considered a few years ago.  Why did you give up on it?  Did you believe it was balanced or did they convince you that it was balanced?  Did you build it?  My design is obviously unbalanced?  It is not the proverbial mass on a chain device where one half is dragged up an inclined plane while the other half is falling, there is an obvious shift of the center of mass?  Why would you give up on it?  Imbalance and balance are two different things?  An imbalance will produce motion, up until the point which it is balanced...unless it cannot reach that balance.

"Maybe we should solve this overbalanced wheel problem right here in your thread, I mean it's a few hundred years overdue... why not?. Lets see where this takes us, you and I. Ask me a question and I will do my best to answer it."...Isn't all of the mass on the right side in free-fall in reference to the rotor? How much force is required to roll an object uphill?  Less than what is required to lift it , right?


« Last Edit: 2015-04-16, 22:54:42 by Overboard »
   
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The http://www.math.nyu.edu/~crorres/Archimedes/Lever/LeverIntro.html applies there if properly wheel is made in theory but in practice it is much more tricky to make that with gravitational pull unless you somehow make one side of the wheel have more force to move than another.

Personally I would try this on different place - with 3000RPM 100W motor connected to 100 RPM 3kW wind generator over reductor with flywheel(as capacitor to smooth out friction) and seeing how much power I could take out of generator when it is up to speed... ;)

Cheers!
   
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 ;) One side of the wheel always has more force on it always by design as it is, do not need a capacitor to smooth out friction because the right side always weighs more than the left.  No lifting is ever done, because the normal force counter acts gravity so it is only rolling it uphill with less force or otherwise constantly unbalanced. Isn't that the Pythagorean theorem?  Nice post T-1000!  Cheers! ;) Are you up to speed?  Can you not see...the right side weighs more then the left, it's center of balance is constantly shifting, No?  Would anyone at all even acknowledge if a workable model or design was presented here?



« Last Edit: 2015-04-17, 23:22:13 by Overboard »
   
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I have already proven that magnetic fields can produce the upward force, and gravity can produce the downward force my videos have proven this fact. That with the magnetic propulsion fields, the upward force is along a particular angle and it only takes time to achieve a certain height and smooth disconnect, once that height is obtained it will release automatically and reconnect again at another magnetic propulsion field which means that we can continue the loop.  More proof...that we can produce energy from forces.... so, why not produce energy from the force of gravity, it is a usable  force.


« Last Edit: 2015-04-26, 04:44:37 by Overboard »
   
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