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Author Topic: rectifier into 5U4?  (Read 74398 times)
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img  BEP
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #50 on: 2010-06-16, 23:22:33 »
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Yes.

It could be for the early ones that point hadn't been understood(location of tubes & SS etc.).

On the nearby transformer thought: maybe it wasn't the fields of the transformers that had an effect. Maybe the common transformer does more than folks think.

They could be stealing the mojo from the TPU  :D

I'll tell you all what mojo is after I cook up a theory for it  ;)
   
img  Kooler
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #51 on: 2010-06-17, 02:17:07 »
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this is a AA rechargable.. you can see it better in the videos its yellow with silver ends.. it has a white wire going to it on one side
   
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Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #52 on: 2010-06-17, 03:29:44 »

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Quote from: kooler on 2010-06-17, 02:17:07
this is a AA rechargable.. you can see it better in the videos its yellow with silver ends.. it has a white wire going to it on one side

It has been rumored that SM used batteries for his oscillator circuit.
   
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Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #53 on: 2010-06-17, 04:34:56 »
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yeah,
i thought i'd show people were this one was.. but whats in the middle of the spool i have no idea..
i figured he used the batterys to trigger the gates of fets or transistors..

robbie
   
img  BEP
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #54 on: 2010-06-17, 05:17:12 »
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Wish my eyes worked as well as other folks.

Regardless of video enhancement, my large screen and long hours, the only things I've been able to identify, for certain, were not batteries in any TPU.
   
img  otto
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #55 on: 2010-06-17, 07:33:17 »
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Hello all,

@wattsup

thanks but I was thinking about little JFETs that you can buy for a few cents.

@Grumpy

yes, something like you mentioned. 2N....... or something like this, BF .....something cheap

@Mannix

I tried a lot of times to place my MOSFETs inside the TPU and I saw that nothing changed. But if you place the 3 oscillators and the MOSFETs inside the TPU then its a totally different "story".

Otto
   
img  Lindsay Mannix
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #56 on: 2010-06-17, 07:44:52 »
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@ otto
That's what he said about ss

I wonder if you are using the latest coil config.
perhaps a picture for us all?
   
img  otto
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #57 on: 2010-06-17, 07:51:39 »
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@Lindsay,

you want that I post my "secret"?? Heeeeeeey, then it would be so obvious whats going on in a TPU....

Im just joking about the "secret". OK, a picture will follow but I have to make the drawing. a complete drawing? With all I know?

Otto
   
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Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #58 on: 2010-06-17, 08:06:58 »
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Hello all,

sorry guys, now I see that my scanner is at home so I can post my pictures tomorrow. Sorry again.

Otto
   
img  Lindsay Mannix
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #59 on: 2010-06-17, 08:22:31 »
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Yes , that's what we are here for . this stuff will never see light unless it becomes well known.

the real challenge is to make that happen without being buried in somebody's money/gvt pit.

not many  have had the courage and wisdom,  in the past.

expect criticism and dis belief..some will call you a liar even!

So please show us what you made

Lindsay
   
img  otto
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #60 on: 2010-06-17, 08:47:28 »
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Lindsay,

as said, tomorrow.

I dont care what the people will say. I dont have money but on the other hand I dont care about money. The point is to share and Im willing to share. Its SMs discovery and invention and he wanted that we "rediscover" it. I cant imagine that I would get money that belongs SM. So, I dont care about money.

Yes, I have spent a lot of money in the last 3 years but its a "part" of the TPU so I have to live with it. It really doesnt matter.

Whats now important for me is to get N and P channel JFETs to really achieve superconduction in my TPU.

Uuuuupppppsssss.....

Otto
   
img  Lindsay Mannix
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #61 on: 2010-06-17, 13:30:40 »
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Otto, while we are waiting i thought to share a little simple circuit.

Here is a tube based noise generator  that I cannot get to run in simulation, but works in practice.
r3 should be much lower in fact it would be nice to have it as low as is possible
The zener is the noise source but other reversed biased semis will do .
the tube should be a 6bq7 12 au7 12 ax7 etc ..something to build on anyway

the trick is to gather a portion of the kick from inside the inductor( collector) and create a sync pulse  which will momentarily blank the noise that the tube is dealing with.

another stage may  be necessary to achieve this  . and another 2 oscillators and inductors a bit later.



The deal is taht the noise keeps the tube in random state that would not other wise but the return little kick will synchronise due to the control collector physical relationship.

it should ultimately  allow multiple frequencies to combine within the space of the collector coil

THis is not from steven , just my current experiment setup.




« Last Edit: 2010-06-17, 15:23:10 by Lindsay Mannix »
   
img  wattsup
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #62 on: 2010-06-17, 13:52:01 »
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@otto

I have.......

100 x PN4117A - N-Channel JFET - Type TO-92
100 x PN4118A - N-Channel JFET - Type TO-92
080 x PN4416A - N-Channel JFET - Type TO-92 (I blew 20 of them - lol)

Or, just tell me which ones you want and I will get them for you. No Problemo.

@Lindsay Mannix

Quote from: Lindsay Mannix on 2010-06-16, 23:11:55
Steven said that tubes do NOT need to be inside the ring only ss must be ...but that could be a tube or a battery.
 magnetic fields from transformers can upset the process if close to the unit.

Yes and that just may be the effect he was looking for. A quenched vacuum tube. You can quench reed switches, spark gaps, etc., so why would an "energized" red hot cathode be any different. It just might lower the plate voltage but increase the amperage. Don't know, but I will start looking into tubes.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2535.msg211095#msg211095

@ALL

I was going to post a rather long post but decided it will just complicate things for nothing. This has been happening to me lately where I don't even post 4 out of 5 posts. It is my way of making sure I do not stray others away from their works.

So here is a question instead.

Does anyone know if a vacuum tube cathode rated at 5 volts AC input and 400 volts output (forget the mA's) is driven at 2 volts AC, will it still provide some output. This is an important question. If it does not produce anything until you actually provide the rated input to "fully energize" the cathode, then the vacuum tube analogy could mean that the TPU has to be driven at a given voltage to start working, otherwise you will just get some volts via any form of induction present in the circuit but no real effect. If it does, then it means the device can work with gain and gradually increase its own applied input.

Example: I have noticed on one of my toroidal coils that at low input voltage pulses, not much was on the secondary side but add just one more volt and the output jumps in increments of 10. So there is a minimum required to really move the effect. But very often at that level the mosfets get real hot and when you hit the wrong frequency they just fizz.

Hmmmmm. That's one good thing about tubes - they are already in a constant state of fizz.

@EMDevices

I did a Google search for "quenched vacuum tube". Amazingly only got two hits. One at OU.com (linked under Mannix) and another one below which is a pdf file and thought it may be good reading for your present orientation of the HV lines. It might give you some ideas but it is way over my head.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hlektronika.gr%2Ffiles%2Findex.php%3Fact%3Ddownload%26id%3D67&rct=j&q=%22quenched+vacuum+tube%22&ei=k4kZTILSGIOKlwfetvzJCw&usg=AFQjCNH3hgu9R7GQ7vI4PKlx9HlMmKrsrg


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img  wattsup
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #63 on: 2010-06-17, 14:01:16 »
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I forgot that I promised today to put up a photo of the OTPU were there could be a tube in a metal casing. Not the metal casing that goes to the output wires. Another one.

Also, I know the above image of the two tubes was not the 5U4s but just wanted to show two tubes with different tops. The smooth topped one could be what is seen under the FTPU.



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http://etherimpress.com
   
img  poynt99
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #64 on: 2010-06-17, 14:03:28 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: Lindsay Mannix on 2010-06-17, 13:30:40
Otto, while we are waiting i thought to share a little simple circuit.

Here is a tube based noise generator  that I cannot get to run in simulation, but works in practice.


Lindsay,

I think your DC power supply is backwards. This might explain why the sim doesn't work.

.99


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img  Lindsay Mannix
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #65 on: 2010-06-17, 14:08:01 »
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@ watts up,
you have a good point about the rectifier tube . you might need my "statrer motor" though
   
img  ion
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #66 on: 2010-06-17, 14:47:50 »
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Hi all

I don't know if anyone caught this from my earlier post but check out the frequency initial accuracy of the gas diode oscillator +/- 20 Hz out of 500kHz. Don't know what the frequency stability over temperature would be but that's a nice "out of the box" initial accuracy.

 Considering it puts out near pure sine waves with no additional components is pretty amazing.

 Apparently ion-acoustic oscillations are obtainable as Moray King (Tapping The Zero Point Energy) and T. Henry Moray theorized about. In the latter case T. Moray may have actually succeeded in the entrainment of electrons with his ionic oscillations.

Something like this would easily fit into any of the TPU's

Wattsup:
Quote
Does anyone know if a vacuum tube cathode rated at 5 volts AC input and 400 volts output (forget the mA's) is driven at 2 volts AC, will it still provide some output.

As the emission (filament voltage) is varied, the density of electron flow from the cathode to the plate will vary, all other relationships (plate voltage, grid bias being fixed)...thus the plate current will change. This will generate a family of transconductance curves. A weak tube usually has low emission because the coating on the cathode that emits electrons has boiled off. This would be somewhat similar to reducing filament voltage. Does this help?

Into my Fender Super Reverb I built a fuzz circuit with a 6AL5 dual diode clipper where the hardness or softness of clipping was adjusted with a potentiometer that varied the filament voltage.



« Last Edit: 2010-06-17, 16:12:31 by ION »


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img  Grumpy
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #67 on: 2010-06-17, 15:23:23 »

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Quote from: ION on 2010-06-17, 14:47:50
Hi all

I don't know if anyone caught this from my earlier post but check out the frequency initial accuracy of the gas diode oscillator +/- 20 Hz out of 500kHz. Don't know what the frequency stability over temperature would be but that's a nice "out of the box" initial accuracy.

 Considering it puts out near pure sine waves with no additional components is pretty amazing.

 Apparently ion-acoustic oscillations are obtainable as Moray King (Tapping The Zero Point Energy) and T. Henry Moray theorized about. In the latter case T. Moray may have actually succeeded in the entrainment of electrons with his ionic oscillations.

Something like this would easily fit into any of the TPU's

Wattsup:
As the emission (filament voltage) is varied, the density of electron flow from the cathode to the plate will vary, all other relationships (plate voltage, grid bias being fixed)...thus the plate current will change. This will generate a family of transconductance curves. A weak tube usually has low emission because the coating on the cathode that emits electrons has boiled off. This would be somewhat similar to reducing filament voltage. Does this help?

Into my Fender Super Reverb I built a fuzz circuit with a 6AL5 dual diode clipper where the hardness or softness of clipping was adjusted with a potentiometer that varied the filament voltage.


Ion-acoustic oscillations - bingo! - there are many terms for this but all are a longitudinal electric wave, hence "acoustic"

a clipper would convert the beautiful sine waves into near-square waves - but sine waves work too.  Just because a transverse wave is fed in, does not mean that a transverse wave comes out.

What is the max voltage of the tube?
   
img  ion
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #68 on: 2010-06-17, 18:35:45 »
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Hi G

Can't make out the label but looks like 10 or 16 volts, probably higher to ignite, current must be limited to 30 mA. Ion-acoustic oscillations may the missing link in the 5U4 circuit SM talks about. If the tube became "gassy" for any reason it may have exhibited the Ion-Acoustic mode of oscillation.

Heavy ionized atoms oscillating longitudinally may other have peculiar effects besides stable frequency and near pure sine wave.

I highly recommend reading "Tapping the Zero Point Energy"...Moray B. King has many references to this mode of oscillation in that volume.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  BEP
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #69 on: 2010-06-17, 18:51:16 »
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That little tube will add oscillation to any signal you put in, including DC.
It probably never took off because changing its orientation to the Earth would stop the oscillation or reverse it.
Remember someone playing with an arc lamp tube, not long ago?

Where do we find these little gems?
   
img  BEP
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #70 on: 2010-06-17, 18:56:47 »
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BTW: wouldn't these be classified as NRO's?
   
img  wings
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #71 on: 2010-06-17, 20:00:28 »
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"Ion-acoustic oscillations - bingo! - there are many terms for this but all are a longitudinal electric wave, hence "acoustic"

a clipper would convert the beautiful sine waves into near-square waves - but sine waves work too.  Just because a transverse wave is fed in, does not mean that a transverse wave comes out."

see plasma spectral analisys

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/html/s_gdp3.htm

http://books.google.ch/books?id=2SUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=radio+with+cold+cathode&source=bl&ots=b3jLjcpoie&sig=aPWggBNM4fwD1J1DUyE7BscJDHE&hl=it&ei=sHEaTLjBOqWcOKCk2KMK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBjge#v=onepage&q=radio%20with%20cold%20cathode&f=true

« Last Edit: 2010-06-17, 21:37:43 by wings »
   
img  Grumpy
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #72 on: 2010-06-17, 22:01:24 »

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Quote from: ION on 2010-06-17, 18:35:45
Hi G

Can't make out the label but looks like 10 or 16 volts, probably higher to ignite, current must be limited to 30 mA. Ion-acoustic oscillations may the missing link in the 5U4 circuit SM talks about. If the tube became "gassy" for any reason it may have exhibited the Ion-Acoustic mode of oscillation.

Heavy ionized atoms oscillating longitudinally may other have peculiar effects besides stable frequency and near pure sine wave.

I highly recommend reading "Tapping the Zero Point Energy"...Moray B. King has many references to this mode of oscillation in that volume.

might be able to detect them around the tube as you can around a spark gap

switch some hv over some hv dc and you will definitely measure something

guess what else you can make oscillate longitudinally?
   
img  Lindsay Mannix
Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #73 on: 2010-06-17, 23:48:02 »
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99.

its fixed , sorry but it will not simulate . I threw that together for the graphic and screwed the dc polarity. I have tried many times before . Perhaps is due to the non conventional noise from the zener.

If you could work this in simulation I would be grateful to learn why Im not able to.

just the zener/resistor  part would be enough.
I use multisim ..perhaps not the best?
wattsup.

the rectifier tube between the control and collector may be exactly the context in which they are used as the process increases itself.
   
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Re: rectifier into 5U4? « Reply #74 on: 2010-06-18, 04:04:41 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Lindsay,

I'll see what I can come up with.

Can you send me the spice txt model for that 6SF5 tube? Or are you using a different tube model?

I don't think there is much wrong with the zener portion of your circuit, although I would recommend going up to a 50k pot and using a 10k limiting resistor in series with it.

Analog white noise generators are simply an amplified zener noise source, so a good common cathode amplifier stage is called for.

Darren


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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