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Author Topic: "RF and molecular bond breaking Kanzius style"  (Read 103467 times)
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Gentlemen  

Here we will be exploring the breaking of molecular bonds in "water" through vibrational reaction".

Various members of this forum have been working aside on this idea, in reality it is not new, it all started back in the 1930's with Dr. Royal Rife, then in the 1970's Dr. Andrija Puharich, and more recently Kanzius with his burning of salt water. What do they all have in common?

They were all working to find a cure for cancer by manipulating the structure of the cancer cells and were using the basic recipe from the start of RF in a type of chaos to vibrate the molecules within those cells.

Rife was relatively low power and so was Puharich to start with until he found out what was happening, his higher power system was never published but he did patent the basics which showed the efficiency of using a type of modulated RF. Now in the turn of the century Kanzius working in the same field of a cancer cure, was also using RF at high power levels, 300watts RF. He found also by accident that it would dissociate salt water and be able to burn the gas. As Kansius had his setup he was only able to reach just under a COP of 1, on the other hand Puharich with his low power was able to just obtain a little over a cop of 1.

All these systems use RF modulated in one form or another to create a form of "chaos", multiple frequencies, some of which multiply their power due to being generated from different angles and add together their power ( harmonics and heterodyning creating the same frequencies multiple times ).

This is chaos SEE LINK BELOW

This is the RF power unit we have at the moment, which when powered up to it's full power (increasing the voltage input) should deliver in excess of 400w @ around 90% efficiency. We are working on the modulation and delivery system at the moment. Here is the video.-

from itsu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJTchos3opU&feature=youtu.be

Active participation and comments are encouraged ,In the Theme of this forum ..
all is open source and not for sale...

respectfully
Chet K



 
   

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Thank you Chet for starting this research thread, no claims just pure research and experimentation.

I would advise anyone who wants to participate, to read up on Royal Rife's work (there is a lot, just look at the basics), Andrija Puharich and his patent found here:- http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm

and what little you can find on Kanzius (a lot was suppressed it seems), there are mainly a couple of videos on youtube and a few write ups not giving anything away ( I am told on good authority that it is now used in an advanced form by the US navy).

Here we are trying to find and implement the correct and most efficient way to break the water molecule by looking at the last 85 years, or so, of work done by others in molecular bond breaking using RF in a special way, a way that can be reproduced time and time again.

The above three names are not the only ones, but probably the ones that stick out more than others. I have not mentioned Meyer as I don't want to mix up what people see as electrolysis with what we are doing here, which is not electrolysis.

Regards

Mike 8)


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Nice video Itsu, and your circuit performs well.

What im thinking here is we need a frame of reference , should you or anyone be successful in spliting/breaking the bond of the water molecule, to measure output for input against. As I already spent time and money on an accurate measuring device when I was interested in Les' s thread, and have a very efficient dry cell, I could set the bench mark for standard DC electrolysis as far as MMW go's.

@Itsu

Why not use a 2 plate cell as a dummy load. This way you wont miss anything while your testing.
You will have to rectify the RF out though, and your resistance can be adjusted by your Elite mix.


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Thanks Tinman,

Sounds logical to have a reference yes, then we can compare with a basic setup.

problem with using "a 2 plate cell as a dummy load" is that i have very little experience with electrolysis other then what we did with Mike's SMD.
But from that i know that the cell is very hard to measure for resistance (ideal 50 Ohm, but we could adjust the output filter).
Also it has a big capacitance value, which need to be known and compensated for.

So is there a simple way to sample the cell for resistance/capacitance?

But making DC out of RF is not what we want/need, its the chaos caused by the RF - harmonics - hetrodyning that should do the breaking of the molecular bonds we are after, see Mike's PDF in his post #119.

These are the problems we need to solve, keep on coming with those suggestions / solutions.

By the way, here the diagram of the amplifier used in my above mentioned video:
(it comes from this link:   http://users.skynet.be/BillsPage/ClassE.html  )

Regards Itsu
« Last Edit: 2015-07-13, 20:50:27 by Itsu »
   

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Thanks Tinman,

Sounds logical to have a reference yes, then we can compare with a basic setup.

problem with using "a 2 plate cell as a dummy load" is that i have very little experience with electrolysis other then what we did with Mike's SMD.
But from that i know that the cell is very hard to measure for resistance (ideal 50 Ohm, but we could adjust the output filter).
Also it has a great capacitance value, which need to be known and compensated for.

So is there a simple way to sample the cell for resistance/capacitance?

But making DC out of RF is not what we want/need, its the chaos caused by the RF - harmonics - hetrodyning that should do the breaking of the molecular bonds we are after, see Mike's PDF in his post #119.

These are the problems we need to solve, keep on coming with those suggestions / solutions.

Regards Itsu

Well if you just want to use the two plate cell as a resistive load,then leave it AC.
To work out resistance of the cell,just use ohms law(as you do indeed have capacitance).
So just use a known AC voltage across the cell,and see how much AC current is being drawn,and from there you can work out your resistance. From there you just keep adding your Elite until you reach the resistance value you want. Now,it will be out a little due to the capacitance,but at those frequencies the capacitance value wont be that high,so your resistance value will be close.
Hope that helps.
Here is a link to a page on liquid resistors. This should get you through.
http://www.nessengr.com/techdata/liqresistor/liquidresistor.html


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Hi TinMan

I don't think we can compare any output to Faraday electrolysis, that is not what we want. I think first is to get it working, that is to produce a gas or gas mixture as in the Kanzius setup "no electrodes or direct contact with the water". Once we have that then we can look at the calorific value of the gas produced, this will have to be measured as there is no real existing make up of the gas, this is all going to be new to all of us, but we are trying to make it simple, well as simple as it can be, and above all safe.

There is a common denominator in all the RF splitting of water to date, chaos, through reducing the carrier and expanding the two side bands of a dual side band signal, we can produce huge power in the modulation frequencies and their chaos from harmonics and heterodyne generated frequencies, " it is not the carrier but the modulator", this is where most have missed the point. The carrier could be just about any frequency, it is just that, a carrier, or better understood by my term, the Trojan horse.

The modulation frequencies can be anywhere from DC to 200KHZ or more, and not just one but many.

regards

Mike 8)

Storm here so shutting down.



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Hi TinMan

I don't think we can compare any output to Faraday electrolysis, that is not what we want.

Hi Mike,

I would be interested in comparing RF phase change to Faraday electrolysis in terms of gas pressure produced per unit of energy used.

Thanks, good thread!  O0


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Gentlemen  

Here we will be exploring the breaking of molecular bonds in "water" through vibrational reaction".

Various members of this forum have been working aside on this idea, in reality it is not new, it all started back in the 1930's with Dr. Royal Rife, then in the 1970's Dr. Andrija Puharich, and more recently Kanzius with his burning of salt water. What do they all have in common?

They were all working to find a cure for cancer by manipulating the structure of the cancer cells and were using the basic recipe from the start of RF in a type of chaos to vibrate the molecules within those cells.

Rife was relatively low power and so was Puharich to start with until he found out what was happening, his higher power system was never published but he did patent the basics which showed the efficiency of using a type of modulated RF.

As a side note, Dr. Royal Rife's approach was from resonance standpoint and this is much more effective way to reach result than using brutal force.
Also using filters in circuit is limiting ability to adopt resonant frequency when it is shifting...

Cheers!
   

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As a side note, Dr. Royal Rife's approach was from resonance standpoint and this is much more effective way to reach result than using brutal force.
Also using filters in circuit is limiting ability to adopt resonant frequency when it is shifting...

Cheers!


What we are trying to do is vibrate the molecules through resonance of those molecules as has been explained. To try and hit the right frequencies and maintain the resonance as needed is very very difficult, so the idea is to hit them with chaos so as to guarantee the resonance.

As far as filtering, this is normally the carrier, here we don't really want the carrier, the work will be done by the modulating frequencies and their harmonics etc, which will not be affected by the filter, we hope, if they are we will remove the filter and use a very wide band transformer, this is all experimentation O0 but the idea is sound.

We need input form people for the delivery of the RF, coil/antenna. I am looking at Petlowany pancake coil antennas and also Helmholtz coils at the moment. The delivery  of the RF is probably the most important part, wide band double side band with diminished carrier is not a real problem, the chaos we can create but delivery is another thing.

regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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TinMan Had mentioned this Link.

http://www.rexresearch.com/kanzius/kanzius.htm

A Lot of info there.

   

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I made a new output module, with values tuned for 13.56mHz.

It has similar performance as the other one running on 4.5mHz, allthough i need to redo one of the coils as it turned out to be peaking to low (11.5mHz) in frequency.

Input drain voltage was 41.4V, driver on 12V

Screenshot shows:
yellow: input signal from FG
blue:   output signal across the 55 Ohm dummy load  (262V  = ~150W)

The diagram is the circuit used for 13.56mHz (only the output part!!!)


So we can easily swap out the output module to change the frequency we want to work on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzUSfxi2Auk&feature=youtu.be  

Regards Itsu
« Last Edit: 2015-06-16, 23:42:26 by Itsu »
   
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150 Watts? How long can you run it before your load resistors start smoking? Have you melted the plastic of the springclip on your scope probe yet?

   

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Nice Itsu

I was thinking about exactly what you have done along with Grum, moving up to 13.56MHz, we can keep it in the scientific legal area.

@TK

Only 2sec and it will smoke the resistors, long enough to get the scope shot to calculate the power output though, at 100v + DV it is going to be around 500w RF.

I was thinking at these frequencies it is going to be near field and so mainly a magnetic field used as opposed to an electric field, so we might try a Helmholtz coil setup, will have to find the right size etc for the frequency and impedance tomorrow.

regards

Mike 8)

PS your right the patent sizes etc just do not work out right, the patent is totally stupid, who ever did it.


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Hi TinMan

I don't think we can compare any output to Faraday electrolysis, that is not what we want. I think first is to get it working, that is to produce a gas or gas mixture as in the Kanzius setup "no electrodes or direct contact with the water". Once we have that then we can look at the calorific value of the gas produced


regards

Mike 8)

Storm here so shutting down.


I was just thinking that it would be good to know how much power is actually needed to achieve the flame seen in the Kanzius video using standard electrolysis. I would guess that around 1.5 to 2 LPM of hydrogen is all that the Kanzius setup was producing to obtain that flame rate. I will still modify my cell to separate the H and O ,and see how we go.
It's good to have a base line power to see where we need to get to. O0


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Now that's something I would like to see, for Itsu to see the flame effect (for his personal astounding efforts anyway) and then to know of the power requirements.
The setup is looking a bit out of my own league, anything like 150W and > 12V is such a case. But, if that's what it takes then that's what it takes. I'm concerned that we do have a wooden house  >:-)
"Hey honey come and look, it works....and call the fire brigade"

All said, if it's a resonance method, then from there could be room to bring input power down.
Is it a chain reaction effect ? a focused beam/split effect ? such things aren't known yet.


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We need input form people for the delivery of the RF, coil/antenna. I am looking at Petlowany pancake coil antennas and also Helmholtz coils at the moment. The delivery  of the RF is probably the most important part, wide band double side band with diminished carrier is not a real problem, the chaos we can create but delivery is another thing.
Note, that the Kanzius patent mentions parts of the TX antenna operating at >20kV electric potentials.
Similarly, TeslaCoil transmitters / resonators operate at deliberately high VSWR in order to obtain high potentials, too.
Also, the TX & RX heads, described in the patent, separated by an air gap, form more of an HV air capacitor than a high current inductor.

High current Helmholtz coils are useful for generating strong homogeneous magnetic fields.  Such fields are customarily needed to minimize spin decoherence in NMR.
Whether this is useful depends on spin axis precession coherence being a part of the MO.

As a reminder: Capacitors are voltage devices while inductors are current devices. HV in an inductor does nothing for its magnetic field.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-17, 07:08:17 by verpies »
   

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Hi Verpies

Note, that the Kanzius patent mentions parts of the TX antenna operating at >20kV electric potentials.
Similarly, TeslaCoil transmitters / resonators operate at deliberately high VSWR in order to obtain high potentials, too.

I think if it was running at a high VSWR something would have given at these powers, I don't think an ATU would help much (especially automatic as in the YEASU) there are many things that just do not square up in the patent application, the spec of the antenna for one.

Also, the TX & RX heads, described in the patent, separated by an air gap, form more of an HV air capacitor than a high current inductor.

Yes I thought of that, then discounted because it is a near field antenna at these frequencies, so magnetic field.

High current Helmholtz coils are useful for generating strong homogeneous magnetic fields.  Such fields are customarily needed to minimize spin decoherence in NMR.
Whether this is useful depends on spin axis precession coherence being a part of the MO.

I don't think coherence comes into this, I think it is pure molecular resonance in all parts of the substance within the field (H2O+Nacl) causing a shearing of their bonds.

As a reminder: Capacitors are voltage devices while inductors are current devices. HV in an inductor does nothing for its magnetic field.

Very true, so what do we have here, bearing in mind this is a high wattage transmitting" coil" operating in the near field.


This is why we need the likes of yourself ;) to help us find what is really going on and why

Best regards

Mike 8)



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Very true, so what do we have here, bearing in mind this is a high wattage transmitting" coil" operating in the near field.

Near field EM radiation looks like these inner loops in the video below:
[youtube]4rsu582YjEw[/youtube]
   
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  Intriguing thread!  i'm back from extensive travels to visit children and grand-kids and other family; so hope to catch up a bit.

TinMan wrote intriguingly:
Quote
I already spent time and money on an accurate measuring device when I was interested in Les' s thread

Can you tell us about this device?

 I'm looking for a "power analyzer" that can handle output at higher voltages and frequencies - especially at higher frequencies like one might get from a blocking oscillator.  With such devices, measuring input power (usually DC) is quite easy, but measuring output power can be very difficult.  I've tried rectifying and dumping the energy onto a capacitor; I've tried dumping the power into a resistor and using calorimetry -- but these "measuring" efforts CHANGE the circuit whose output power i'm trying measure!  Yes, i've used a fast scope and V(t)*I(t) - and take an average power from the waveform...  concerns there with offsets and sampling rate etc... 
 Surely there's something out there...
   

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   I'm looking for a "power analyzer" that can handle output at higher voltages and frequencies - especially at higher frequencies like one might get from a blocking oscillator.  With such devices, measuring input power (usually DC) is quite easy, but measuring output power can be very difficult.  I've tried rectifying and dumping the energy onto a capacitor; I've tried dumping the power into a resistor and using calorimetry -- but these "measuring" efforts CHANGE the circuit whose output power i'm trying measure!  Yes, i've used a fast scope and V(t)*I(t) - and take an average power from the waveform...  concerns there with offsets and sampling rate etc... 
 Surely there's something out there...
There is a type of photometric power meter which consists of two identical cavities abutting each other each containing identical filamentary light bulbs.  The light bulbs back-illuminate abutting ground-glass screens so that light intensity can be compared. One bulb is fed with RF power from the source to be measured while the other bulb is fed with DC.  By adjusting the DC to get equal illumination you can then accurately measure the DC power which should equate to the unknown RF power.

Smudge
   

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Or alternatively.....

Attached is Verpies's watt meter design. This has been presented many times before, with, I may add, no interest !!

I feel this would be a suitable candidate for funding !!   ;)

Cheers Grum.


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Grum,

Very nice simple and compact circuit, I don't recall seeing it before this. It should fit on a small chip carrier board and be inexpensive, all good qualities.

A digital display should be able to be added pretty easily as well. Thank you for posting it again and thank you Verpies.


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Or alternatively.....

Attached is Verpies's watt meter design. This has been presented many times before, with, I may add, no interest !!

I feel this would be a suitable candidate for funding !!   ;)

Cheers Grum.

Good Day Grun & All,

Yes, nice idea......
Are we talking SMD, FR-4, two-layer pcb, ground plane, with interface for PIC/Arduino LCD display?
Maybe use an ATTiny85 for the A/D conversion, real small, not a lot of board real estate.
Arduino/LCD display could run off of the *same* 7805 linear.
Any special shielding needed?
What type of input/output connectors (for the AC power signal) are we talking about?
I regularly design pcbs on DipTrace software, could probably setup the design on about 8 cm*2 board area with SMT.
Anyway, count me in as it looks like a useful tool.

take care, peace
lost_bro
   

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Attached is Verpies's watt meter design. This has been presented many times before, with, I may add, no interest !!
Actually, Itsu took a good crack at it, but unbeknownst to me he bought the 2GHz unbuffered version of the multiplier chip with low input impedances, while I was working with the 1GHz buffered version with the "B" suffix with high input impedances (a sample from AD).

For this schematic to work with the unbuffered version of the multiplier chip, some of the resistors need to be altered to match its low input impedances.
   
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Actually, Itsu took a good crack at it, but unbeknownst to me he bought the 2GHz unbuffered version of the multiplier chip with low input impedances, while I was working with the 1GHz buffered version with the "B" suffix with high input impedances (a sample from AD).

For this schematic to work with the unbuffered version of the multiplier chip, some of the resistors need to be altered to match its low input impedances.

Verpies,

Do you have time to redesign your circuit for the 2GHz un-buffered version of the ADL5391 IC?

I did make a Eagle CAD lib for the ADL5391 and I think it will be very difficult to hand solder the IC.
Attached is the footprint of the IC compared to a 0805 capacitor. IC is 3X3 mm in size.

GL.
   
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