What if the world went " Bosoms up " tomorrow?

[Grumage]

Dear All.

I, like many here have spent many years researching the alternative energy field, as yet nothing has emerged that could free us from the " system " completely. I started thinking, as my title suggests, how would I provide for my family in the event of a total collapse of society?

We take electricity and water being supplied so for granted these days, but there wouldn't be any!  What would you do?

I envisage a return to the steam age here, we have a spring and a Green & Carter hydraulic ram pump just itching to be set to work. We have a 4 Acre forest of prime Poplar that has been left to its own devices for many years. A " flash steam " boiler would be the safest way to raise pressure for a makeshift engine.

As I write this post it suddenly reminds me how lucky I am, there would be so many folk affected, at the mercy of complete meltdown. Let's just hope the " bosses " don't loose it for everyone's sake!!

So, what would you do? How would you make some energy? As we search for that rather elusive black box.

Cheers Grum.

[CITFTA]

Hi Grumage,

My son and I have been thinking the same thing.  That it may not be that long before it happens.  Like you I have been searching for a free energy solution.  Since I don't see anything real promising in the near future with the projects I am trying, my son and I have been thinking of real solutions we know we can do if the infrastructure goes down.  My son has decided to build a wood gasifier.  He has 15 acres of mostly pine and some hardwoods.  I also have 3 acres which is about half covered with pine.  We have a wood chipper.  With the gas from the gasifier you can run any engine that will run off of gasoline.   My son already has a large generator that will run off propane so that could be used with no modifications at all.  We both already have processors to make biodiesel so that is an option if we could find a source of used cooking oil after the collapse but that is most likely not going to be an option so the wood gasifier seems to be the best choice for a energy source after the collapse.

Take care,
Carroll

[Chet K]

Grum
some things to consider, I have been looking into phase change again [Rob Mason is working on this too] and once again fuel emulsifications similar to Johans work.
also to consider is this  work from Dennis Lee   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTPYecWuppg [specifically the 2 minute mark]


and what made me Give Dennis's work a 3rd look, see here at [2.37 mark]  Dow chemical panels with phase change salts ??  no explanation other than brief comment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w320Iu3poO0

also to note will be utilizing a wee furnace in the fuel / water emulsification tests with ultrasonic added and some HHO  [thx Johan]  which will run hot  enuff to also be used for  CF testing similar to Parkhomov.
should be noted that Dennis Lee also built a furnace he claimed could reach 5000 F
see here
http://bwt.jeffotto.com/bwt_catalogue/stoves.htm  

side note recent CF testing has indicated a tight seal [pressure]may not be as important as originally thought and that a vacuum
seems to set up at time of "event" ?......odd indeed.



A reference to those who may be unaware of Water and fuel [thx Johan]
https://sites.google.com/site/braxpeace2/waterinfuelblends

and the Cottell device up to 50% water [crazy simple] http://rexresearch.com/cottell/cottell.htm

[evolvingape]

Grum
some things to consider, I have been looking into phase change again [Rob Mason is working on this too] and once again fuel emulsifications similar to Johans work.

Rob Mason is not working on anything, he is as far as I know retired from this game.

[Chet K]

perhaps he still does Consult work ??

[thx1138]

I've been thinking about this a bit. IMO the first thing to envision is what will you be doing? If it lasts very long there won't be any use in going to town because the shelves will be empty and there won't be any fuel for sale. So I rule out transportation after the fact. Might need transportation to get to rural property if you don't see it coming far enough in advance to get there.

So the how much energy do you need to survive once you are there? Food and water. Depending on where you are heat - mostly at night.

The real question is how long would the problems last? I live in an area susceptible to hurricanes so I know some disaster preparedness. Food for a couple of weeks is pretty simple. You just buy a lot more of the nonperishable food items you normally use. If the hurricane hits you there is the nonperishable food and whatever you have in your freezer. If the storm misses ypou, you just quit buying those items for a while. I keep a 100 gallons of water and a gallon of bleach on hand and flush and refill the tank every three months or so. And don't forget about the sewage. Thanks to gravity a toilet will work even if you just fill the tank with a bucket.

Mid duration, say 6 months, you just need more of the above and possibly a small photovoltaic system with deep cycle batteries.

Longer term you'll need vegetable seeds and either wild game or livestock and a well or creek and lots of bleach. It helps to have canning equipment once the garden is producing. I use cast iron pots and pans over a wood fire. I guess aluminum would work as well but just like cast iron. The Foxfire books are handy references. See the "Frequently Bought Together" part at he bottom of the page at the following link:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Foxfire-Book-Dressing-Moonshining/dp/0385073534

City or rural living you need firearms, training, and ammunition. Other people who didn't prepare will be out to take yours if it lasts long enough and as they say, when seconds count the police are minutes away. You can't call them anyway if the cell phone towers and/or interconnects are down. If you're in a rural location, it won't be some accountant coming out to kill a cow to feed his family. It will be armed gangs from the cities. They're already organized and they will be prepared to take advantage of the situation - fuel, transportation, and armaments.

Medical supplies. Bandages, antiseptics, antibiotics, and serious pain medications. Plus your regular indigestion and similar over-the-counter remedies.

I can live without electricity, gasoline, etc. And, in fact do, for a couple of weeks or so each year just for the hell of it. It's nice to unplug once in a while. The bottom line is you have to decide what is a necessity. I've found that it doesn't take that much to get by if you can live without the luxuries like furnace/air conditioning, running water, grocery stores (ach! ICE CREAM!) - what we normally take for granted every day. Oh yeah, this internet thingy.

If your only option is city dwelling, well, good luck!

[Grumage]

Dear Carroll.

Welcome to OUR, I did try to reply last night but my message vanished into oblivion due to the site having technical problems!!

A gasifier, brilliant idea! I should have thought of that myself, what with my long association with vintage IC Engines. In fact there was a local saw mill, long gone now that ran the entire outfit from the sawdust it produced.

I would like to thank all that have replied, perhaps between us we can pool some ideas to create a sort of survival guide?

Cheers Grum.

[Grumage]

Dear All.

Here's a little something I remembered about, from watching the series Mountain men.

http://youtu.be/fbY7JsP8soA

Enjoy.   

Cheers Grum.

[Centraflow]

Moonshine too  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec2v9uZEatM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp56sT66D1U

regards

Mike

[Farmhand]

Surviving for a period while a specific "local disaster" plays out is a very different scenario to a "total onset of chaos throughout the western world" or even the entirety of civilisation.

Basically the strongest of mind and/or body will survive. "Darwin's rules will apply", whereas at the moment not so much.

Peoples actual needs are few, but the few are vital and not so easy to achieve.

1. Preservation of the living body. This requires most of our basics. Food, Water, Shelter (protection from the elements), and Security (protection from serious bodily trauma or death) from any source of likely danger.

2. Preservation of the will to exist.Positive Mental health. This requires for most people many of the "first line Needs" to begin with. however a serious failure in mental health of one individual can completely undermine any or all of the "first line Needs", and not just for that one person it can affect many people.

Dealing with the people who give in to the dark side will be the major problem, not to mention trying to deal with the one's that already have given over to evil during past times.

When civilisation fails catastrophically next time it will be an extreme series of events. (The beginning of this failure is already in the past).

My suggestion is make a decision if or not you need to distance yourself and family from others, and decide quickly if the need be.

Let's hope sanity comes to power on Planet Earth. Insanity has ruled long enough.

A question to ponder. Would a reset of civilisation be better to happen sooner or later ? For if later the suffering will most definitely be logically greater.

Making and storing ethanol (moonshine) successfully requires security or "mountain man type" Stealth skills. haha.

P.S. I don't want things to change too much, I like my phone, computer, TV, Stereo, ect. ect. The core is rotten but the fruit is fine, for now, but action is needed to preserve the fruit from the rot. Kind of thing.
.

[Matt Watts]

A lot there to consider Farmhand.  I certainly don't have any universal answers.

I do think "It" is coming.  I feel the Samson Option has been played and though it probably won't end in a bright flash of light and a mushroom cloud, the results will be the same.

Now really is a good time to stop and think what one must do or what one's desires are.  Things are changing so fast, putting things off for even another week is a precarious decision.

[Centraflow]

Has anyone really looked at the world population growth? I think the elite are trying to change things by whatever means they can, war, virus, famine etc. I think it is all by design, when one does not work they start another.

http://www.voltmeters.info/world-population/

regards

Mike

[Grumage]

Has anyone really looked at the world population growth? I think the elite are trying to change things by whatever means they can, war, virus, famine etc. I think it is all by design, when one does not work they start another.

http://www.voltmeters.info/world-population/

regards

Mike

Dear Mike.

Yes......... It's been known as...........  " Agenda 21 "  !!   

I have today emailed my local MP regarding the relaxing of Fracking laws here in the UK. Our government seems Hell bent on destroying the countryside making areas become uninhabitable, thus forcing people to be concentrated in areas where they can be more easily controlled !! As Matt says, the writing is on the wall, we have been prepping for quite some time.

Cheers Grum.

[Centraflow]

I have today emailed my local MP regarding the relaxing of Fracking laws here in the UK. Our government seems Hell bent on destroying the countryside making areas become uninhabitable, thus forcing people to be concentrated in areas where they can be more easily controlled !! As Matt says, the writing is on the wall, we have been prepping for quite some time.

Cheers Grum.

Yes f'ing fracking, just off the coast from me they were doing that, had to be stopped as it caused earthquakes on the mainland, up to 5.5 RS "100's of them" causing structural damage to buildings, it is now a long drawn out court case, but who will win? the people certainly will not, that is for sure

A 1 MWatt wind generator and solar plant feeding a water splitter and on to a methane reactor, all located at the ocean, will produce cheaper gas, they know this, so what the F'ing hell are they trying to do!!!!
The oceans CO2 sink is starting to go out of control, no it has gone out of control. Using sea water does several good things, reduces the CO2 or helps keep it in balance, adds O2 to the atmosphere which in turn back to the ocean, produces a fuel which is far cleaner than any other which can also be used in transport of all types including space rockets.

Give me a small team of engineers and a budget to build this and I would prove this, it would pay for itself in around 5yrs after which the cost of running is maintenance only up to say 20yrs. Nothing more green and clean than this, it recycles 100%, wind, sun, water, carbon, and the infrastructure is already in place

Regards

Mike

[TinMan]

Dear Mike.

Yes......... It's been known as...........  " Agenda 21 "  !!   

I have today emailed my local MP regarding the relaxing of Fracking laws here in the UK. Our government seems Hell bent on destroying the countryside making areas become uninhabitable, thus forcing people to be concentrated in areas where they can be more easily controlled !! As Matt says, the writing is on the wall, we have been prepping for quite some time.

Cheers Grum.

It really is a sad situation Grum. If i cut down 1 tree !just 1!,im up for a $5000.00 fine. But here we have these large entities that seem to get a licence to destroy our planet,while filling there pockets with more money than they will ever be able to spend.
greed,power,control-->the three esentuals for this lot,and must be at any cost.

As far as population growth-well i do believe we do have a limit as to how many can be sustained on a small planet such as ours-->you can only fit so many on one bus. It is not only the human number growth,but the fact that that also includes the requirement for more farming,food and water.

The whole ecconomy growth rate is far to high,and the next GFC will be D day,as it will dwarf the last GFC.
But once again,those that caused it will be those that !once again! get off scott free,while the rest of us pay.

I think those of us here in the South West of Western Australia would do just fine,as it is mostly farming in this area. My family would own a good portion of the South West corner,as we are all farming families-uncles,aunts,cousins etc. We would also be safe in number's,as at the last family reunion we had a count of 487 family members-and that was 5 years ago.

[Bob Smith]

One of the things not factored into feeding the world is soil demineralization. Under the current large scale agricultural paradigm, we might have a tuff time feeding everyone. BUT two things are not often considered:
1.  if the farms were to be run by small scale growers, the yields are always much higher per acre.
2. if rock dust instead of chemical pesticides and fertilizers was spread over fields, it would be digested by microbes and insects and become bio-available for plant uptake. Plants growing on high mineral content soil are larger, more robust and disease-resistant. Look at the produce these folks in Scotland are getting with poor soil that has been remineralized: http://www.rockdust.co/  
Costa Rica has been the site of reforestation initiatives involving mineral dust with great success: http://remineralize.org/costa-rica-remineralization-for-sustainable-living/

I live in a rural area of farms, lakes and bush in central Canada.  The number of farms spraying their fields with roundup is very noticeable. All this glyphosate goes into the streams, lakes and wells. And people wonder why so many are getting Cancer around where I live...

Those chemical companies seem to have a strange hold on our political systems, our manufacturing & packaging industries, our farmers, medicine and even food industries.  D'ya think that maybe feeding the human family isn't as important to them as keeping profits high? I dunno.
Bob

[Farmhand]

It looks to me as though the plan of the Elite is fertilize the soil with blood and bone, the do gooders give millions in food aid to foreign countries still with devils/dictators in charge then when there is trouble they bomb and tomahawk the places to rubble, then enter ISIS who just let blood all over the place. ISIS is a direct result of American backing of rebel forces to fight against Assad, and the failed illegal and baseless invasion and destruction of Iraq.

What should happen is Russia should assist Assad to retake Syria's land to the borders, then The U.S.A should get the hell out of there.  

It is no surprise to me to see on the news that the U.S. now wants to place troops inside Syria. Which (I Think) is a crime by international law. The U.S bombing targets inside Syria is also crime by international law.

The Russians are acting inside international law, as they were asked to be there.

All this will cause more blow back on the U.S. they just cannot expect to keep committing international crimes involving the killing of thousands of people. And expect every citizen of the Earth to accept it. Certain western leaders that qualify as suspected War criminals need to be put on trial.

The way out of this is to punish the people who destroy Sovereign States by means of interference and backing/funding of insurgencies waged by Terrorists. Unfortunately these criminals are protected by millions of brainwashed to be scared citizens of their respective Nations.

The situation in Syria is seemingly either going get better with some U.S. cooperation with Russia or if the U.S. refuses to cooperate with Russia and by extension Assad then I see very bad things for the future decade.

Assad is no angel but neither was Saddam, thing is it is absolutely none of our business in Syria, Assad is the Legal Leader and Russia and Iran (I think) are planning to clean up the place. I say leave them to it and stop funding/and arming the insurgents.

With Russia and Iran helping Assad they ought to be able to expel or eliminate all the terrorists from Syria, and begin rebuilding the place. Then the Good Syrian people that fled as refugees would likely return.

Let the illegal interference end and the Nation destroying bringers of Chaos criminals be punished.  

So say millions of sane people.

..

[Farmhand]

Interesting article - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/2015/10/02/44c1f7fc-6932-11e5-9223-70cb36460919_story.html

Snippet from linked article -

Current and former U.S. officials voiced concern that the Russian bombing would damage a covert program already struggling to gain traction in the fight against Assad. It is also likely to increase frustration among the rebels "that the Americans don't do as much as the Russians do for their side of the conflict," said Robert Ford, the former U.S. ambassador to Syria who resigned that position in part out of frustration with administration policy.

Rep. Adam Schiff (Calif.), the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said the Russian move "really ups the ante for the United States. We do have great reputational costs in letting the Russians assert themselves and be seen as a more forceful actor on the ground in Syria. We also have a deep interest in protecting the moderate population, and that's going to push us to have greater involvement, which is a risky proposition."

Any direct military response against Russia, a U.S. military official said, would probably require new presidential authorities. But Obama, speaking at a White House news conference Friday, made it clear that he has no intention of directly confronting Russian forces.

"We're not going to make Syria into a proxy war between the United States and Russia. That would be a bad strategy on our part," Obama said. "This is a battle between Russia, Iran and Assad against the overwhelming majority of the Syrian people. Our battle is with ISIL," he said, referring to the Islamic State.

A kind of a twisted back flip, or a back flip with a twist. score from Judges 0- 0- 0.

Quote "Our battle is with ISIL", there is a contradiction in the U.S. propaganda. Assad is not ISIL. OMG the hypocrisy is blinding.

..

My question is. Why are these long convoys of ISIL vehicles NOT being bombed by F18's ? They put on huge convoys of new vehicles and even tanks and artillery pieces like it is a Mardi Gras parade or some kind of celebration, and yet no bombs rain on them. I guess they gotta be happy about the new hardware so they celebrate. WOW


The following picture is funny but true, I have three phones with sims as well as about 6 other digital camera's and some sound recorders, just to make sure my own rights are not infringed by my own "Authority people". They ought to leave me alone and have so far. Video's and sound recorders capture the truth. And it is not illegal to use them. I have zero firearms or weapons of any kind. But I will be applying for a weapons licence. I see no reasons for a rejection on that. I'll get as many classes as I can up to Class M. I may need to get a job as an armed guard.
..

Actually a good mate of mine in town runs a regular security firm. I might put it to him to start up a repo business. or similar.

..

[muDped]

My question is. Why are these long convoys of ISIL vehicles NOT being bombed by F18's ? They put on huge convoys of new vehicles and even tanks and artillery pieces like it is a Mardi Gras parade or some kind of celebration, and yet no bombs rain on them. I guess they gotta be happy about the new hardware so they celebrate. WOW

Good question of course and it is a sad fact that very
few Americans ask the same question.  American Foreign
Policy since the 1930s has been in support of the Zionist
Movement and the establishment of Greater Israel.

Even before the start of World War 2 the plans were laid
for the creation of the State of Israel and its gradual expansion
into the Greater state extending from the Nile to the
Euphrates.  The plan is to deconstruct all states in the
proximity of Israel to reduce them to failed states with
a sparse Arab population to make way for their takeover
by Israel in the very near future.  The massive influx of
"refugees" into Europe is in the plan as well to destabilize
Europe and facilitate its desperate reliance upon America
to keep it afloat.

The planned Headquarters for the New World Order is to
be Jerusalem and will be finalized with the completed
construction of the 3rd Temple on the mount where the
mosque is now situated.  Things will be heating up soon
as the shadow government does its dirty deeds.

Israel continues to decimate and obliterate Palestine and
its people without a peep from any of the Western States.
Blowback, when it finally occurs, will be devastating for
the warmongers of The West.

Obama is just an "actor" reading the script as he dutifully
carries out his "orders."

[Matt Watts]

Obama is just an "actor" reading the script as he dutifully
carries out his "orders."

You may enjoy some Zen.
http://www.zengardner.com/whos-your-scarecrow/

[Farmhand]

ISIL might be running short of personal "hype up juice" soon.

Saudi Prince detained with 2 tons of drugs of some kind on his private jet. Lebanon caught him. Can anyone read Arabic or whatever language is on the boxes ? What do the boxes have written on them ? Might be interesting to know what type of drugs it was.

https://www.rt.com/news/319727-saudi-prince-drug-arrest/

Jump to 5:00 minutes in the next vid, the guy explains how they are up against people on drugs. Probably amphetamines gets them going nuts and heroin or morphine for pain ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I673FizB0Yk