patents! what rights? -- fight fire with fire

[Duncan]

What rights? As perhaps some may be aware I am Interested in the people and history of what we loosely call free energy . As centraflow  has pointed out researchers that have entered into this area go straight into danger, trickery and corrupted patents.
This being the case there are many who have developed, utilized,invented or perhaps even stumbled across COP>1 devices that work some even spectacularly.
There are many people who claim to have made OU devices (quite a few of them on this forum) I have no reason to doubt most of these people. I have built enough machines now to know the infinite possibilities and no longer regard a COP>1 machine as anything particularly remarkable.
What I do regard as remarkable are the people with the mental resilience  to do it !
Here then to my mind is the very crux of a Major problem.
There is now a huge constipation in the system , a constipation that is enthusiastically amplified by a rotten skewed system.
Those who read this that are privileged (?) enough to have developed  an effective OU system will have found that for one reason or another you cannot commercialize it. This is of course by design, a design that is carefully guarded and improved upon.
Each of us regards our achievements however minor they might be as OURS.
Of course we have in turn been educated at the feet of masters ! all be it those masters speak through the pages of books across many years or perhaps in quips across a forum quite simply we are none of us an island even though some (it seems)  have heads big enough to believe they are. I have invented -- Me - I

No man is an Iland, intire of itselfe; every man
is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine;
if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe
is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as
well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine
owne were; any mans death diminishes me,
because I am involved in Mankinde;
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

                                              John Donne

Added to this Melee is the concept that these developed /invented /constructed machines and of course the technology should be immediately open sourced - Gratis . In the case of this forum that would be Gratis to the 135 members  and as a side effect the thousands  who choose to view and read over time. It would not be PC to refer to these 'quests' as parasites because of course the site is designed to accommodate them however we are all involved in a serious wrestling match with a very skewed system. Readers who have enjoyed and partake in OU forums (some for many years) are forced to agree that if the object is to get free energy to a free world - It hasn't worked! What does work and happens automatically is using the idea's presented , forming a little 'cell' and quietly developing yet another system - which won't see the light of day until its to late!
We,Me, I  with yet another system stacked up behind the dam wall !
Each thinks they have something of inestimable worth when what they actually hold is the dust and ashes  of a failed society,yet another hidden truth.
The medicine hasn't worked !! So  lets consider changing it. We are locked into a system and it is my suggestion that we consider twisting things to our advantage in every way possible. The our in this case being firstly the members of O.U.R and our mutual ambitions.
Those who have tangled with the official regime will know all about 'intellectual property' know all about the requirement of 'secrecy' attached to anything you might hope to patent and profit from. The very nature of an open forum makes a mockery of the concept of  'intellectual property' an open forum also does not conform to the stance of  The scientist, the academic work  and research at once becomes 'everyones'.
Of course as an individual considering such a forum I'll almost always promote the idea that everyone else broadcast their thinking and disclose their inventions (because I wish to know all things) whilst not being very enthusiastic about disclosing my own particular billion dollar contraptions to all members and of course the esteemed  'guests' .
I think it would be nice to put a bit in the bank in fact lots and lots  --- don't you ? whilst also fighting fire with fire
There are 135 of us members it would seem. most of who have been 'vetted' In theory its quite feasible to name 135 people on any particular patent (for instance) . As a collective force operating with the secrecy the system demands we would make a very effective battering ram.
A cooperative 'cell' and yes of course for profit !! The forum does have, yell boxes, shout boxes ,  PMs and various means to chat with each other and progress - lots to be Ironed out but you see my gist I'm sure.
I study the person the history and the surroundings as some know . Recently 'Peter Davey' A subject I approached quite eagerly because of my own families connections . Let me introduce you to my own Grandfather who I also discovered rather more about than he'd been prepared to discuss when I lived with him whilst I scratched about in Peters past. It seems to me that those who actually flew that war didn't really want to talk about it much.perhaps 'a wizzard prang' really wasn't much fun after all?.



yeah he was there too! in between a rock and a very hard place with the RAF. now lets say (hypothetically of course) that as I researched and dug about that I found a mizz anonymous who had one of Peters legendary 'desk lamp boiling machines' - " yeah it blew up so I threw it in the back of the kitchen cupboard lost it and found it again recently  " --- Oh really !!! you can be my best best'est friend.
well lets assume I now know how this thing works and if it is tuned correctly that it might offer a COP of 700 (or much more) who's intellectual property is that ? certainly not thousands of guests is it ? Nor any casual reader. Peter fought the skewed patent system for better than 50 years he was still fighting it when he died at the tender age of 92 . IMHO that intellectual property is not simply 'property' it is clear to me that it was also Peters intended legacy to his family. They still like many here - hope to profit from their particular contraption , and really why shouldn't they? (or any of us for that matter?)
I could alter it slightly, ring the patent (as Mike's was) and make it 'all mine' 'all mine' (NO I don't want to do that !) I don't have the right to publish ,its not my work (or your's) - as a forum please think about it and  give me something I can sell honestly to this family. Something they and of course the collective 'we' can profit from in all respects. After all  If it were only a money consideration and we are but 135 simple souls considering something worth billions (every day) - would the size your particular slice of the infinite cake worry you over much ? do any of us really need much more than enough ? thanks for reading and I hope a little thought  kindest regards Duncan

[Smudge]

Hi Duncan,

Let me talk about this from my perspective.  I got into free energy research 23 years ago after my first wife died, I needed something to occupy my mind and my time.  I had a full professional life working in the UK defence industry and that brought me into contact with the UK patent system as several of my ideas were put forward for patenting by my company (I still have the one shilling postal orders that the company were compelled by law to give me "as a due and valuable consideration" for assigning the rights of the patents to the company).  As I understand things, if an idea is published to the world then it cannot be patented, which is why companies who wish to patent something have to keep it secret while the patent process goes through, and that takes years.  There is nothing sinister in this, it is part of patent law.  Of course this secrecy is sometimes used wrongly; the company I worked for would embark on patents with the sole intention of preventing someone else from profiteering even though they had no intention of funding the idea themselves, but in the hope that our government would sponsor the development.  When that didn't happen, and then some years later under new management, I got called into the office to justify why the company were paying yearly renewal fees for a patent that was lying dormant!  Grrrr.

I am sure that many people have developed overunity or free energy devices.  I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories that these devices have been hijacked by the MIBS to prevent them from becoming widely used.  I rather think that the devices are the result of years of painstaking effort where the inventor eventually gets one working, but not fully understanding why it works he is unable to make another one except my more years of painstaking effort.  Industry is not interested in a manufacturing process that takes years to produce each machine, that makes a mockery of its produced energy being "free".  So until someone can come up with something that is easily mass produced, free energy machines remain in the realms of garage tinkerers.

Now at the ripe old age of 83 I have no interest in patenting anything, so anything I come up with I will make public via this forum.  Hopefully that will allow others to do the donkey work and develop something that works.  They might not be able to patent the original idea, but they could benefit from patents of improvement and/or a registered design.  And if mankind benefits from the device then so much to the good.

Smudge 

[Duncan]

Smudge - thank you very much for your considered reply ,a lot of it I could well have written myself a few years ago . The patter about helping humanity certainly. The trouble is if I have a hard look at humanity right now there is a goodly portion I don't feel inclined to help at all. I'm none to keen on folks who burn people in cages and that sort of thing for instance.
As for COP>1 machines and MIB well I have had some minor dealings ... In the UK the uniform is not so much understated as nonexistent , no black helicopters either, just a man with an umbrella and a brief case from the MOD. still the stories the same --- stop doing that - we not like.
As for COP>1 machines Smudge well once one of them starts working in front of you would think the feeling would be elation, It isn't! I found it very disturbing,  it shocks your understanding and that apart its a boolean situation it either is -- or isn't there is no middle ground. If only one machine works as advertised (and many do) then all the associated restraints must be in place too (and they are)
as I wrote previous, forums running along our lines have not achieved  the desired effect  in the last few decades hence I suggest discuss running a different way.
That quite apart from the fact that I was considering something with effectively a no disclosure clause attached so the 'love of humanity' tablet won't work . kindest Regards Duncan
 

[thx1138]

Patent rights are worth however much money you have to defend the rights granted. You'll notice that patent disputes are usually between large corporations. That's because they're the ones with the money to defend their patent rights.

Personal story: When my father came back from WW II he operated a beer distributorship. At that time beer was delivered in boxcars. One of the tasks was to unload the cases of beer from the boxcar, stack them in the warehouse, and then move them as necessary to the trucks for delivery. All of that was done by hand with the assistance of roller conveyors. The boxcar doors were sufficiently high off the ground that they could set up a roller conveyor from the door into the warehouse and let gravity do most of the work. Later he decided to palletize the cases of beer and use fork lifts to move them around the warehouse and load them on the trucks. One problem was that he had a forklift driver sitting on the forklift while someone else stacked the cases on the pallet.

He invented and produced a machine to do that stacking so the cases could be moved as fast as they could be unloaded from the boxcar. The machine was basically a 1950's hydraulically driven robot that detected a case, picked it up, and stacked in a "tie stack" pattern on the palettes. He later made it adjustable  so it could handle different sized packages like bags of fertilizer or standard sized shipping boxes.

He acquired a patent on the machine. He found some investors to put the machine into production. They looked at the patent and his operating machine and declined to invest. They then went about building their own machine from his publicly available patent and sold many thousands of them and used the money from selling those machines to fight my father in patent court. They didn't win but they did bankrupt him with patent attorney legal fees. The automated warehouses of today were developed from that initial patent.

The only way around that scenario is to hold it all secretly until the means of production is developed and up and running and start producing the product and file the patent at the same time so you have the income to defend the patent. Once the application is filed is when you start selling.

If you don't have the money to make all of that happen, you don't have a chance. And even at that, patent laws between countries are essentially treaties. Notably, China is not a party to any of those treaties so in today's globalized world there is little chance that your patented device wouldn't be built there and sold cheaper than it can be produced just to run you out of business.

Unless you are already independently wealthy, forget about getting rich from your inventions. My personal goal is to develop a device that will cost me less to produce than what I can save over my lifetime by using it.

Nuclear batteries are a good example. The batteries running the Voyager space craft have been operating for 40 years and have a few more years life left at this point. That, specifically, is not a good option for me because I don't have 40 years left but that's the gist of it.

What got me thinking this way was realizing that some families have been in their ancestral homes for hundreds of years. Imagine the last 6 or 8 generations of your family not having to pay rent or a mortgage. How much better could they live?

Patents? Meh.

[giantkiller]

I have a patent and cowrote 3 others. The company tossed me aside when burn out hit me. No big deal here. I got 14k for my 4 years worth of effort. The company went bust. Here is how it happens. You tinker to get. You achieve with glee. You run to the bank for money. You spend it all. Then the OTHER companies rush in and produce while you are out of money to fight. Buh-bye and oh yeah. You got a debt that bankrupts you and your family. Comes out of a book and has be run a thousands times over. When you see those bionic hands with the variable speed and grip, thats me. I also redesigned and built the better myo-electric sensor that is still in use today, all over the planet. Otto Bock incorporated these features into the latest version and still charge an arm and a leg. I created those features on my kitchen table one night from $5 worth of Radio shack parts. My business partners and investors were stunned and drooling the next night. How did you do this so fast? Later they killed goose that laid the golden eggs. I revamped a million dollar business into a billion dollar world wide achievement. Now you know.

You talk about fighting fire with fire? Listen up.
1:You can not make any finished product demos, period. This is for your protection.
2: When you see a claim and a prototype about something you understand to be possible, take it seriously. You needn't see a finished product to know. That is why we are all here.
3: We have all seen or done COP>1. It do exist. Because I am under government security clearance I can not... You get the picture.
4: Of all the absolute legitimate configurations we have seen I have taken upon myself to work on those. And yes they do what they say. Why wouldnt they? Let me digress:
If one looks at the Kunel patent it is clear as a bell, right in front of your face. Methodically bouncing or disrupting a resonant field. I did not say tank or coil.
Many, many, many, many configurations we have seen work on this principle.
We have been at this long enough, correct?
5: You don't need any more demos. Period. Bounce the resonant field, either in a core, a light core or air. Take the Kunel patent and match it up against a Tesla coil. Same thing. Just a different generation and capture method. But the COP is in the same place of both configurations.
6: You can tell of someone who is not aware of this by their lack of knowledge of fields in the air. They are mechanically minded and think something is inside the circuit. It always outside the circuit. Look at the Johnson motor. Side by side. The next attempt by the fellow with the Spanish name put the motors on the same shaft. Idiot. It is a resonant field swaying back and forth between the two generator. The moving cores become saturated the external field has nowhere to go but to impress in each sway to impart a product back to the other side. Think of a tub of water that you gently push. It will overflow, no? Same thing.

I have spent 10 years here repeating example after example. Why? Because I know it all? No. Because I have something better going for me? Uh, scratch that.
I keep repeating the previous examples as a way to circumvent demos. See? Cats out of the bag . Maybe. See? Aloofness is your friend. This does not make me anybody. Remember: B.S. is your camouflage. But your gun is always loaded. Can I substantiate my claims. Read E.V.Grays story and be very afraid.

Now lets take this one step further. This COP>1 has been done before. Eons ago. It is the Ark of the Covenant. You don't think so? Read the specifications of the build, the preparation, the handling and the use. Its all there. We OU'ers are merely trying to replicate that thing. But there is only one allowed till its final use at the end. B.S.? Nope. The Jews, the Hebrews, the Egyptians, and the Canaanites know it. It is in their history.

And the game is so well done that there are those non believers that will cry fowl. And even believers will call all this a stretch. Dont run over my suburban white picket fence. Its just too much beyond belief. And besides It is not taught in the hallowed halls of obfuscation. Answer this: Am I correct?

Another step further:
Has any one had THE INTERVIEW? I have and I didn't like it. The peoples of the human race are being watched. Too far fetched? Who killed Stanley Meyer? Why did E.V.Gray run off a wild man and just disappear? Why did Leedskalnin wrap his incredible portal in B.S.? I sat in the rocking chair. OMG. Where the hell did THIS guy come from? Who shutdown Tesla? Why does Magnacoaster act like an idiot in public? Keep naming them. You cant stop counting the fallen heroes.

So for those who have something. Enjoy it and all the other configurations. I was told 2006 'When you see it, you will know. And you can tell the configurations that work and the ones that don't.' Normal stops a COP>1. My ex-wife even saw it. She freaked out and kicked me out. That is the mentality one is up against. I got the scars and the medals.

I am no better than anybody else. My curiosity just got the better of me. It it will you too.

Just to let you know. A configuration that works is labeled as a W)rench Of M)iracle D)elusion by the governments. That's right. Its code. Be careful who you show.

[Duncan]

Thank you both so much for reading and considering, I know all you say is correct and non of the machinations pleasant I have had dealings myself and didn't find things at all 'nice'. It is alas the only official game in town regardless of the fact that Its so rotten and biased.
For some odd reason when you have seen one COP>1 device running the operation of some others becomes easier to comprehend.
On this his particular forum most of the members are in no doubt of the reality of COP>1 machines but rather strive to make a simpler better example.  and then what ? I was considering now a way we might collectively vet ,test ,verify and push it into the daylight (if thats deemed a good thing) with the least danger to any individual. sounds easy in those few lines - of course its not but perhaps with a little thought we could work out an effective plan

[T-1000]

Hi Duncan,

Before I even started experimenting back in 2008 I also had many questions about posibility of alternative energy.
It took me years reading various websites and watching yotube videos but after filtering there are few things appparent:

The patenting never worked, trully. For example in the US it can be even stolen right away when is marked as the "matter of national security".
The inventors who had made free energy devices was suppressed or killed over last 100 years in various ways. Not a big surprise considering how big oil&gas industry is..

So in the end anything I did - all went open source as a matter of personal security and making sure the results reach people around the world who are interested in it. You might ask question about profit - the answer is, after you die you cannot take it to afterlife. So it does not matter and the best option is just to contribute to better living of entire society. If the results happen to materialize everyone will benefit from it including myself.

So I keep researching and doing experiments until good inventions happen.

Cheers!

[giantkiller]

A teensy bit off subject because the expressions in this this thread got me searching again.
I went looking for spin conveyance across the web.
There a a very few doctoral white papers but the first link is our own beloved Wattsup. Another testing gladiator.
The link points here to OUR. So I delve in and this video is posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXG6db0A1Ns&feature=youtu.be

Now I love to hack the system. It is in the male genes, right?
In this video there is a light bulb connected to the hot line of the mains and the other side of the bulb is connected to a pipe in the ground.
The bulb is lit and the watt meter shows 0(zero)!

Can I  get excited here?
Now the only way this is free energy is free is because the public utility return path is disconnected. But the electrons have a free path to ground.
If I am not missing anything here then lets start this parade with a hack.
Go to the power box on your house, switch off the main and disconnect inside / house ground, should be the white wire. Drive a 2 foot piece of Reebar or copper pipe into the ground 1.5 feet. The deeper one goes the less resistance. Connect the inside house ground line /white wire to the the pipe and switch the main back on. And this should duplicate what Wattsup is showing. Free energy, but not really. The distribution is being done by the utility company. Maybe that is why the utility company and gone to intelligent meters? And now, of course, your whole property is in the charge path. Woohoo!
Alternatively one can just duplicate what Wattsup has shown on a larger or subset of the household system and reduce the electric bill.
The MIB (MaraudersInvestigatingBoxes) will show up and you will be in jail from the FTC.

Reference:

White Wires A white wire is typically used as the neutral wire, or grounded conductor. For conductors as small as those found in residential branch circuits, only a white or gray wire may be used for that purpose.
In the past, a white wire in a cable assembly was allowed to be used to carry ungrounded potential—to function as a hot wire—in a switch leg or when connecting a set of 3-way switches. This changed with the adoption of the 2011 cycle of the NEC, which requires the presence of a grounded conductor in every switch box, to facilitate the installation of lighted switches, motion detectors, timers, and similar energy-saving controls. In new work, the white wire in a cable assembly cannot be used to carry ungrounded power. Because that requirement was only adopted in 2011, though, a homeowner may find that one has been used that way in an existing installation. In those cases, the white wire should be marked with red or black electrical tape or permanent marker—or any color other than gray or green—to show that it is being used as a hot wire and is carrying ungrounded potential. That wasn't always done, so be careful of white wires in switch boxes. Since a neutral should never be switched, assume that any white wire that you find connected to a switch is a hot wire until you determine that it isn't with a proper meter.

Or maybe I am just plain wrong in not having read ALL the threads regarding this. But the basic bulb setup shows promise. At least since we are tied to something. This is an item Tesla showed us.

I just updated my search to Electron spin conveyance and got a slew of pertinent links. Ah the complexity of the web.

[T-1000]

In this video there is a light bulb connected to the hot line of the mains and the other side of the bulb is connected to a pipe in the ground.
The bulb is lit and the watt meter shows 0(zero)!

Can I  get excited here?
Now the only way this is free energy is free is because the public utility return path is disconnected. But the electrons have a free path to ground.

The utility company still have full closed circuit on that case because even from the nearest substation the transmission neutral line is grounded. And it consumes the power they generate. On those days the power meters are more smart and can register this case as the power leak through ground then charge you...

[giantkiller]

The utility company still have full closed circuit on that case because even from the nearest substation the transmission neutral line is grounded. And it consumes the power they generate. On those days the power meters are more smart and can register this case as the power leak through ground then charge you...

In the video the watt meter is then connected in parallel to the bulb/ per se. Hot to utility ground while the bulb is hot to natural ground. The watt meter never sees it, is all I am trying to say. This being the case one can put many configurations in front of the viewer to promote free energy. The house meter always needs to be shown as another standard towards proof.
Of course some clown will just run an extension cord from his neighbor's...
Or better yet: He switches off his main, turns off all his household equipment and plugs a male to male extension cord from his house to the neighbor's. Then does a demo showing the meter not turning and his device is truly plugged into his own house. A really dummied up deal.