Pierre's OU claim

[Chet K]

Ron shared this yesterday at David Bowling and Matt's thread

I thought I would repost it here
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snip


This is a repost from Norman Wootan on EV Gray.

But it does suggest a solid state model.
-------------------------------------------------------

I think I can see what you have been trying to tell us but not really telling us about isolating the load from the supply, this is an old idea that we talked about in the 1950s, but it does work. Let me explain:

Let's say we have a coil with both leads going to the common terminals of 2 two-way changeover switches. From the load terminals of the two-way changeover switches let's say that we connect the applied voltage supply on the left side terminals, and we connect the load to the right side terminals.

So in effect our coil leads are connected to the common terminals of the 2 two-way changeover switches, and then the coil can be switched on to the left side terminals to the applied voltage supply, to get a pulse, and then switched to the right side terminals to the load, to put the resulting collapsing field spike into the load.

Every time we switch the changeover switches to isolate the coil from the supply voltage, we supply a voltage spike to the load and by doing it many times a second we have a useful OU output to the load.


Here is something from my notes that I came across while investigating more about collapsing field technology some years ago. I don't know the name of the author or owner of this document.


CFT- (Collapsing Field Technology) - Updated 2008

In electrical systems, the term "back emf" actually refers to the equal and opposite force field accompanying the "forward emf", in any "symmetrical" electrical system.
In magnetic systems, the corresponding term is "forward and back mmf", rather than "forward and back emf".


All rotating motors actually turn themselves from the broken symmetry that is created inside them. The present engineers have been trained that they must pay to put extra energy into the system, just to break its symmetry. That of course is totally false. Otherwise, a rotating electron (with its continual spin) would not spin.


In a normal motor, we are trained to put in a coil (say, there in the back mmf region) and then we pay to put in a sudden surge of EM energy to that coil, so that it momentarily overrides (cancels) the back mmf force. In short, we momentarily make the system asymmetrical, so that its net back mmf is less than its forward mmf.


That means that now the motor retains at least some of its excess acceleration and excess angular momentum added to the flywheel and shaft in its previous acceleration (forward mmf) zone, but we are "paying" (the electric power grid) to have this occur.


Anyway, once that broken symmetry between forward and back mmfs is there, with the back mmf deliberately reduced to less than the forward mmf, the motor will self-rotate because of its own system asymmetry.


The fact that this effect has for over one hundred years been viewed as a problem to be designed out of electrical systems, perhaps because of greed, and no on had seriously considered it as a source of abundant free energy. Everyone knew it was there, but no one recognized its potential.


The standard, as manufactured, electrical generator systems can be modified inexpensively to the Over-Unity / Asymmetrical design concept.

By the addition of a second set of commutator brushes and / or the addition of a second slip ring assembly in the present electrical generators,
Over-Unity output, or asymmetrical rotation is achievable in hours.


These additional elements are to collect / scavenger, the collapsing fields (C.E.M.F.) of both the the armatures and field coils of present electrical generator sets.


Present design throws away this tremendous amount of electrical energy in the collapsing fields.(C.E.M.F.) You pay for it, why not get the utility of it?


Everyone who makes use of electrical circuits have always considered the collapsing field effect to be a nuisance because, when using a mechanical relay coil in an electronic circuit, it would cause a current to be pumped back into the circuit, creating havoc. One solution to the problem of C.E.M.F. was to install a diode across the coil leads and when the power was removed, the C.E.M.F. caused a current to flow which passed through the diode and to be dissipated as heat in the coil itself and not in the circuit.


On the armature / exciter element just install a second set of brushes or slip rings the exact amount behind behind the driver units, needed to collect the C.E.M.F., of the armature field collapse, to take it out of the system for additional output generator utility.


On the field coil system, just install a second set of brushes / slip rings the exact amount behind the original primary field coil system needed to collect the C.E.M.F. of the field coils collapsing fields for utility, when taken out of the unit as additional generator output utility.


The additional new C.E.M.F. outputs can easily be phased to the original output system load wiring.
These modifications more than doubled the generators output power at small modification cost / time, and no increase in operating costs.


This general design modification allows for most any currently manufactured electrical generator set to be an over-unity design; and with some additional external modifications a self-standing over-unity configuration can be obtained on most commercial electric generators by any competent electrical engineer. Why pay for fuel / power that you have available in your generator system already?


Again, just collect (scavenger) the C.E.M.F. of the armature and field coil"s collapses for far- over unity operation of these devices, and with external circuit additions, stand alone, fuelless electrical power is available to everyone, in the form of an off the shelf, self-substaining, asymmetrical, electrical generator.


The same modifications can be made in most manufactured motors as they can be made into generators easily.


Just scavage the armature and field coil collapses , control it with an external circuit, and you have a stand-alone over-unity electrical generator.

©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©

Below is a stationary "motionless electromagntic generator design, based on the Alexander patent, that has been built experimentally; No far out 0 point vacuum explanations needed;

©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©

The best form would have no moving parts.
Looking at at the common transformer, and how it works, supplies the answer.


In any kind of transformer, electricity is transferred between the two coils by the magnetic field. When a coil is initially powered up or switched off, that coil creates a magnetic field which causes an initial rush of electricity, usually called a 'voltage spike.'


In conventional electronics, this voltage spike is suppressed to protect the other components from damage. In collapsing field technology (CFT), that voltage spike is harnessed, not suppressed.


If I take a DC signal generator power supply, and connect it to the primary of the transformer, I can make a generator of sorts.


I'll turn on the DC signal in the primary coil windings for just an instant, and then turn it off.
In the secondary there is a flux linkage following of the primary signal that is some 90% of he input power.


But we can recover also, the secondary's field collapse for an additional 90% of input power.


Thus, any transformer secondary will produce about 180% of the input power in this mode, with a gradually applied quarter sine or sawtooth wave shape. input DC signal.


But wait, we are throwing recoverable power away in the primary coil winding's field collapse. By applying the DC power input signal and then , when the input power is cut off, switch the primary winding's field collapse to the output also, the primary field collapse contributes at least another 90% to the output, for a grand total of about 270% gain, in this design.


The DC power signal must only take primary winding up and then let go (open ) at the top voltage.
Thus, the primary can be switched to the output to recover it's field collapse, that is in synchronozation with the secondary's field collapse.


Simple electronic switching can accomplish all of these functions, at little power usage and low cost.Therefore, the gain of a transformer over-unity generator would probably be about 250% output power to input power, and no mechanical motion needed.


Many old motors and generators could be adapted to the transformer design, given above.


The armature must be fixed permanently stationary and the air gap between armature and field coils filled with iron filings. The air gap iron filings, or iron powder filling is to make the best use of the primary's ( armature ) full flux power.


This makes for best transformer action and the highest power gain possible with this conversion design.


Cooling, through holes, can be left in the air gap if necessary in these units. The external switching electronic circuitry is the same as common transformer design, above.


All we have done is to turn the motor / generator into a reasonable transformer.


What is happening in this design is that for one"up"( power signal ) in the primary coil, we get the "up" ( field build ) in the secondary coil and the " downs" ( field collapses ) of both the secondary and primary coil as output power


Think of the primary coils as coupled "springs" and it will all be clear.


This transformer / generator design has been the nature of electromagnetic coils all the time--we just never saw it.


And if the unit is actuated 60 times a second, allowing for the counter-electromotive force field collapses, it makes the standard household 60Hz electrical generator.


This design concept is the natural last step after recovery of secondary collapses was introduced in generator designs.


The same gain principle and results could then be achieved in capacitor systems.


The charge (up ) cycle from the secondary plate and the two discharge cycles from both the secondary and primary plates would be the output power.


The basic external switching electronics is generally the same as in the transformer designs.


These designs are in the basic nature of energy storage / transfer elements---one input allows for the utility of the one input transfer and the two storage collapses or discharges as output power ( about 300% gain )
__________________

[TinselKoala]

If there is one thing that I cannot stomach, it is long posts like that, that pretend to Teach what the author has Never Done and Cannot Do.

"Collapsing Field Technology"

The standard, as manufactured, electrical generator systems can be modified inexpensively to the Over-Unity / Asymmetrical design concept.

By the addition of a second set of commutator brushes and / or the addition of a second slip ring assembly in the present electrical generators,
Over-Unity output, or asymmetrical rotation is achievable in hours.

OK, I'm starting the clock now. OU output is achievable in hours. Says so right there and tells you why and how. Get building! It's inexpensive and fast.

[TinMan]

Ron shared this yesterday at David Bowling and Matt's thread

I thought I would repost it here
------------------------------------------------------------------
Snip


This is a repost from Norman Wootan on EV Gray.

But it does suggest a solid state model.
-------------------------------------------------------

I think I can see what you have been trying to tell us but not really telling us about isolating the load from the supply, this is an old idea that we talked about in the 1950s, but it does work. Let me explain:

Let's say we have a coil with both leads going to the common terminals of 2 two-way changeover switches. From the load terminals of the two-way changeover switches let's say that we connect the applied voltage supply on the left side terminals, and we connect the load to the right side terminals.

So in effect our coil leads are connected to the common terminals of the 2 two-way changeover switches, and then the coil can be switched on to the left side terminals to the applied voltage supply, to get a pulse, and then switched to the right side terminals to the load, to put the resulting collapsing field spike into the load.

Every time we switch the changeover switches to isolate the coil from the supply voltage, we supply a voltage spike to the load and by doing it many times a second we have a useful OU output to the load.


Here is something from my notes that I came across while investigating more about collapsing field technology some years ago. I don't know the name of the author or owner of this document.


CFT- (Collapsing Field Technology) - Updated 2008

In electrical systems, the term "back emf" actually refers to the equal and opposite force field accompanying the "forward emf", in any "symmetrical" electrical system.
In magnetic systems, the corresponding term is "forward and back mmf", rather than "forward and back emf".


All rotating motors actually turn themselves from the broken symmetry that is created inside them. The present engineers have been trained that they must pay to put extra energy into the system, just to break its symmetry. That of course is totally false. Otherwise, a rotating electron (with its continual spin) would not spin.


In a normal motor, we are trained to put in a coil (say, there in the back mmf region) and then we pay to put in a sudden surge of EM energy to that coil, so that it momentarily overrides (cancels) the back mmf force. In short, we momentarily make the system asymmetrical, so that its net back mmf is less than its forward mmf.


That means that now the motor retains at least some of its excess acceleration and excess angular momentum added to the flywheel and shaft in its previous acceleration (forward mmf) zone, but we are "paying" (the electric power grid) to have this occur.


Anyway, once that broken symmetry between forward and back mmfs is there, with the back mmf deliberately reduced to less than the forward mmf, the motor will self-rotate because of its own system asymmetry.


The fact that this effect has for over one hundred years been viewed as a problem to be designed out of electrical systems, perhaps because of greed, and no on had seriously considered it as a source of abundant free energy. Everyone knew it was there, but no one recognized its potential.


The standard, as manufactured, electrical generator systems can be modified inexpensively to the Over-Unity / Asymmetrical design concept.

By the addition of a second set of commutator brushes and / or the addition of a second slip ring assembly in the present electrical generators,
Over-Unity output, or asymmetrical rotation is achievable in hours.


These additional elements are to collect / scavenger, the collapsing fields (C.E.M.F.) of both the the armatures and field coils of present electrical generator sets.


Present design throws away this tremendous amount of electrical energy in the collapsing fields.(C.E.M.F.) You pay for it, why not get the utility of it?


Everyone who makes use of electrical circuits have always considered the collapsing field effect to be a nuisance because, when using a mechanical relay coil in an electronic circuit, it would cause a current to be pumped back into the circuit, creating havoc. One solution to the problem of C.E.M.F. was to install a diode across the coil leads and when the power was removed, the C.E.M.F. caused a current to flow which passed through the diode and to be dissipated as heat in the coil itself and not in the circuit.


On the armature / exciter element just install a second set of brushes or slip rings the exact amount behind behind the driver units, needed to collect the C.E.M.F., of the armature field collapse, to take it out of the system for additional output generator utility.


On the field coil system, just install a second set of brushes / slip rings the exact amount behind the original primary field coil system needed to collect the C.E.M.F. of the field coils collapsing fields for utility, when taken out of the unit as additional generator output utility.


The additional new C.E.M.F. outputs can easily be phased to the original output system load wiring.
These modifications more than doubled the generators output power at small modification cost / time, and no increase in operating costs.


This general design modification allows for most any currently manufactured electrical generator set to be an over-unity design; and with some additional external modifications a self-standing over-unity configuration can be obtained on most commercial electric generators by any competent electrical engineer. Why pay for fuel / power that you have available in your generator system already?


Again, just collect (scavenger) the C.E.M.F. of the armature and field coil"s collapses for far- over unity operation of these devices, and with external circuit additions, stand alone, fuelless electrical power is available to everyone, in the form of an off the shelf, self-substaining, asymmetrical, electrical generator.


The same modifications can be made in most manufactured motors as they can be made into generators easily.


Just scavage the armature and field coil collapses , control it with an external circuit, and you have a stand-alone over-unity electrical generator.

©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©

Below is a stationary "motionless electromagntic generator design, based on the Alexander patent, that has been built experimentally; No far out 0 point vacuum explanations needed;

©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©

The best form would have no moving parts.
Looking at at the common transformer, and how it works, supplies the answer.


In any kind of transformer, electricity is transferred between the two coils by the magnetic field. When a coil is initially powered up or switched off, that coil creates a magnetic field which causes an initial rush of electricity, usually called a 'voltage spike.'


In conventional electronics, this voltage spike is suppressed to protect the other components from damage. In collapsing field technology (CFT), that voltage spike is harnessed, not suppressed.


If I take a DC signal generator power supply, and connect it to the primary of the transformer, I can make a generator of sorts.


I'll turn on the DC signal in the primary coil windings for just an instant, and then turn it off.
In the secondary there is a flux linkage following of the primary signal that is some 90% of he input power.


But we can recover also, the secondary's field collapse for an additional 90% of input power.


Thus, any transformer secondary will produce about 180% of the input power in this mode, with a gradually applied quarter sine or sawtooth wave shape. input DC signal.


But wait, we are throwing recoverable power away in the primary coil winding's field collapse. By applying the DC power input signal and then , when the input power is cut off, switch the primary winding's field collapse to the output also, the primary field collapse contributes at least another 90% to the output, for a grand total of about 270% gain, in this design.


The DC power signal must only take primary winding up and then let go (open ) at the top voltage.
Thus, the primary can be switched to the output to recover it's field collapse, that is in synchronozation with the secondary's field collapse.


Simple electronic switching can accomplish all of these functions, at little power usage and low cost.Therefore, the gain of a transformer over-unity generator would probably be about 250% output power to input power, and no mechanical motion needed.


Many old motors and generators could be adapted to the transformer design, given above.


The armature must be fixed permanently stationary and the air gap between armature and field coils filled with iron filings. The air gap iron filings, or iron powder filling is to make the best use of the primary's ( armature ) full flux power.


This makes for best transformer action and the highest power gain possible with this conversion design.


Cooling, through holes, can be left in the air gap if necessary in these units. The external switching electronic circuitry is the same as common transformer design, above.


All we have done is to turn the motor / generator into a reasonable transformer.


What is happening in this design is that for one"up"( power signal ) in the primary coil, we get the "up" ( field build ) in the secondary coil and the " downs" ( field collapses ) of both the secondary and primary coil as output power


Think of the primary coils as coupled "springs" and it will all be clear.


This transformer / generator design has been the nature of electromagnetic coils all the time--we just never saw it.


And if the unit is actuated 60 times a second, allowing for the counter-electromotive force field collapses, it makes the standard household 60Hz electrical generator.


This design concept is the natural last step after recovery of secondary collapses was introduced in generator designs.


The same gain principle and results could then be achieved in capacitor systems.


The charge (up ) cycle from the secondary plate and the two discharge cycles from both the secondary and primary plates would be the output power.


The basic external switching electronics is generally the same as in the transformer designs.


These designs are in the basic nature of energy storage / transfer elements---one input allows for the utility of the one input transfer and the two storage collapses or discharges as output power ( about 300% gain )
__________________

So many incorrect statements--or for better words-->misunderstandings of how exactly electric motors and generators work.

Again, just collect (scavenger) the C.E.M.F. of the armature and field coil"s collapses for far- over unity operation of these devices,

Since when do electric motors and/or generators have !collapsing! magnetic fields?
How is C.E.M.F in any way related to inductive kickback or flyback as it is commonly known as.

The voltage polarity of C.E.M.F or B.E.M.F is the same polarity as that of the supply voltage,and always of a lower value.
One of the biggest misconceptions is that there is a current flowing due to the C.E.M.F, that apposes the current flow from the supply. This couldnt be further from the truth--there is no opposition current flow.

Another misconception is that if we could remove the C.E.M.F altogether,we would have a much better motor,which is just wrong. What we would have is a big bathroom heater--a power hungry,good for nothing motor.

If (if) we could design an electric motor,where the C.E.M.F was equal to that of the applied voltage,then we would have a self runner-->an electric motor that would consume no power.

Normans post above is sounding all to much like the !imaginary! made up fairy tail of the lockridge device,where which both come from the bodini fan club forum.

Anyway,how do we make a self runner?,well thats easy 

Here is what you have to do
Step 1--example-,get a 12 volt brushed DC PM motor
Step 2--apply 12 volts to said motor-->the 12 volts is your EMF value
Step 3--record max RPM while connected to said 12 volt supply,example RPM=1000
Step 4--now disconnect 12 volt supply,and place DMM set to DC volts across said motors input wires.
Step 5--now spin motor at 1000 RPM,and obtain the C.E.M.F value for that RPM-->which will probably be around 9 to 10 volts.
Step 6--now,without changing anything on the motor,modify the motor so as it produces a C.E.M.F value of 12 volts at 1000 RPM 
Now you have a motor where the C.E.M.F is equal to the applied E.M.F.
As there is now no potential difference between the applied E.M.F and C.E.M.F,no current will flow,and the motor will self run 

The hardest bit is modifying the motor to produce the extra C.E.M.F to a value of 12 volts,while not modifying the motor,so as it still dose 1000 RPM with the applied E.M.F of 12 volts
But once you have worked that out--bob's ya uncle,and you have a self runner 


Brad

[CITFTA]

I started laughing when I got to the ASSymmetrical part.  Sounds just like UFOpolitics and his grand design to make a better motor.  I could probably buy a nice house or at least a cabin if I had all the money that was wasted on that project by all his followers.  I wonder if that original idea is where UFO got his design from?

I love the ideas introduced by that camp.  I attended the first energy conference and heard the Great Doctor L proclaim how we were wasting power in a motor because of the BEMF.  In my mind my mouth dropped open.  Was there really that little of an understanding about how motors worked?  Just for kicks and as an example for the EF folks I designed and wired a motor with almost no BEMF.  I then videoed how much more current it drew in comparison to a normal motor and how much less torque it produced.  I got some praise from a small group who actually understood what I was trying to show but to most it fell on deaf ears.

As an aside if you ever want to see what happens when a really big motor like 25 horse power or so suddenly looses the BEMF all you have to do is just cause the field current to suddenly be lost.  We had a large machine at work that was acting up.  We had this large 25 horse DC motor running at close to normal speed.  While trouble shooting we accidentally bumped the field current relay and caused the motor to loose the field current.  This of course meant no BEMF and the armature current when sky high.  There was a tremendous boom that shock the whole building.

Unfortunately for my partner and I this machine was right outside the maintenance office!  The head of the maintenance department was a former electrician that had many years of experience working there.  He came flying out of the office and saw us standing there.  He asked if we were OK and then said "You lost the field current didn't you?"   Then he started laughing.  "I bet you won't do that again, will you?"

So I really love it when I see such ridiculous ideas being tossed about.

Carroll

[ronee]

So I really love it when I see such ridiculous ideas being tossed about.

Carroll

Why I found it interesting is, as I was having another go at the Adam's motor and the directions call for switching (pulsing) out the generator coils. The fly back on this interruption supposedly drives the unit. So I think we should keep an open mind on fly back. Of course dc motor s have fly back...what do you think causes the sparking?

I didn't hear anyone ridiculing the pulsed transformer idea?

Ron

[CITFTA]

Hi Ron,

Yes the pulsed transformer idea is a totally different animal in my opinion.  I forgot to comment on that.  I have seen some very strange things when pulsing transformers.  I was once pulsing a normal 120 volt to 12 volt step down transformer.  I was pulsing the 120 volt side with 12 volts.  Short pulse widths at about 1000 hertz.  It would light a 120 volt small wattage bulb on the 12 volt output side.  Yet I could put a bridge rectifier on the 12 volt side and run a 12 volt dc motor on it.  It almost seemed like the output voltage adjusted itself to whatever the load needed.  Someday I hope to get back to working on that idea some more to see where it might lead.  At least that part of the article seemed interesting to me. 

Carroll

[TinMan]

Why I found it interesting is, as I was having another go at the Adam's motor and the directions call for switching (pulsing) out the generator coils. The fly back on this interruption supposedly drives the unit. So I think we should keep an open mind on fly back. Of course dc motor s have fly back...what do you think causes the sparking?

I didn't hear anyone ridiculing the pulsed transformer idea?

Ron

DC/AC brushed motors do not have flyback.In fact,no !everyday electric motor! has flyback--only the pulsed type motor has flyback.

The sparking of the brushes is caused by two things
1-bad/soft contaminated brushes,where small pieces of the brushes are breaking away.
These small pieces of carbon become wedged between the commutator segments and the brush itself. They then heat due to now carrying all the current flowing through the motor.
You will also find that small pieces of carbon from the brushes sometimes gets stuck between the commutator segments. This causes a short between those segments/coils,and the small carbon piece will glow white hot until it simply burns out.
These will be seen as orange/red/white sparks coming from the brushes.

2-When the brushes overlap two commutator segments,those two related coils are being shorted--see pics below.
This is the blue colored sparks seen coming from the brushes in high voltage/current brushed motors.
This is also the cause of the radio interference you hear through your radio.

In order for flyback to occur,the coils within the motor must become open-which they never do in everyday electric motors.
But even then,very little will be seen in the way of flyback,due to the self induced EMF generated by the coils motion through the PMs field.

In order to get some form of flyback,you would have to chop the current being supplied to all of the coils within the motor at the same time.
For this you could use a PWM,where the protection diode and cap are removed.

Added-- a slow motion video.
He gets it wrong when he says that an arc is being sustained between the commutator segments,as it is actually small pieces of carbon from the brushes that is jammed between the segments that is causing the white hot flame-not high voltage jump as he is inferring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc4l1eooPKM

Brad

[TinMan]

Hi Ron,

Yes the pulsed transformer idea is a totally different animal in my opinion.  I forgot to comment on that.  I have seen some very strange things when pulsing transformers.  I was once pulsing a normal 120 volt to 12 volt step down transformer.  I was pulsing the 120 volt side with 12 volts.  Short pulse widths at about 1000 hertz.  It would light a 120 volt small wattage bulb on the 12 volt output side.  Yet I could put a bridge rectifier on the 12 volt side and run a 12 volt dc motor on it.  It almost seemed like the output voltage adjusted itself to whatever the load needed.  Someday I hope to get back to working on that idea some more to see where it might lead.  At least that part of the article seemed interesting to me. 

Carroll

The output voltage of the secondary coil is not only determined by turn ratio,but also rate of change of the magnetic field. The faster the rate of change,the higher the voltage value--regardless of turn ratio.


Brad

[TinselKoala]

Looks like interest is starting to wane. The thread has dropped off the first page at OU dot com.

On another (but similar) topic.... Remember this website?

http://energy-shiftingparadigms.com/index.php

Yep, Ains-lie's website is up for sale, auction ends today.

[Chet K]

well
that link goes to a blank page here

I believe Rosemary was quite.....
Sincere ....at first !

[TinselKoala]

well
that link goes to a blank page here

Try this one:
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://energy-shiftingparadigms.com?reqp=1&reqr=
you may still be able to buy it for cheap

I believe Rosemary was quite.....
Sincere ....at first !

Then why did she have to lie so much? I've documented lies from her going all the way back to the original Quantum article. I even think that she badgered her collaborator in those early days so much that he actually killed himself.

But never mind, she's gone. Probably passed away herself, although I've not been able to find an obituary.

[Chet K]

an anomaly ?

a statement from an open source builder

listener192
quote
This requires further investigation to understand why this is happening.
post 1351 here
https://overunity.com/17653/pierres-170w-in-1600w-out-looped-very-impressive-build-continued-moderated/new/topicseen/#new