Charging a capacitor with a gain

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Author Topic: Charging a capacitor with a gain (Read 18562 times)

Aking.21	Charging a capacitor with a gain « on: 2019-05-14, 20:00:40 »
Sr. Member Posts: 367	Here's the cat among the pigeons. I've been doing this Benitez trick for years, but seeing as R's revealed it you may all as well have the secret. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1hNQsr9YnkIjFkMAc3Npw 1 HOUR 6 minutes in. C1 charges c2 whilst powering a bulb for almost free. COP? pretty high. Using 120,000 uf caps. (You can do this with car batteries) R demonstrates splitting the positive.................................. Criticism welcome. Ha ha ha. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

partzman	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #1 on: 2019-05-14, 21:39:17 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1671	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2019-05-14, 20:00:40 Here's the cat among the pigeons. I've been doing this Benitez trick for years, but seeing as R's revealed it you may all as well have the secret. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1hNQsr9YnkIjFkMAc3Npw 1 HOUR 6 minutes in. C1 charges c2 whilst powering a bulb for almost free. COP? pretty high. Using 120,000 uf caps. (You can do this with car batteries) R demonstrates splitting the positive.................................. Criticism welcome. Ha ha ha. A.king, Respectively, exactly what is the "secret" we should extract from RF's video? Regards, Pm

Aking.21	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #2 on: 2019-05-14, 22:22:27 »
Sr. Member Posts: 367	Quote from: partzman on 2019-05-14, 21:39:17 A.king, Respectively, exactly what is the "secret" we should extract from RF's video? Regards, Pm The cap is charged for free (ish). I'm not gonna post the schematics - you can do this with many circuits. Just build it and see for your self. Read Carlos Benitez's patents. He uses this technique all the time. This stuff is a hundred years old. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

gyula	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #3 on: 2019-05-14, 23:32:12 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1117	A.king21, What is your definition of COP?

TinMan	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #4 on: 2019-05-15, 05:39:35 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4602	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2019-05-14, 20:00:40 Here's the cat among the pigeons. I've been doing this Benitez trick for years, but seeing as R's revealed it you may all as well have the secret. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1hNQsr9YnkIjFkMAc3Npw 1 HOUR 6 minutes in. C1 charges c2 whilst powering a bulb for almost free. COP? pretty high. Using 120,000 uf caps. (You can do this with car batteries) R demonstrates splitting the positive.................................. Criticism welcome. Ha ha ha. Instead of posting links to RFs youtube of endless nothingness,and making claims of free energy devices,you should first be required to provide proof of such claims in the form of a working prototype and schematic,so as others here can replicate and validate your claims--as they are becoming quite frequent. RF has nothing to offer,other than hours of air time,where he consistently shows nothing. Perhaps Peter could remind you of the rules when it comes to making claims of free energy devices. Once again,your topic title state's that your are claiming a free energy (overunity) device. And once again it is from RF. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Itsu	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #5 on: 2019-05-15, 09:52:08 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4092	using: http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/electronics/capacitor_energy Stored enery: in a 120000uF cap at: 30v = 54joule 15V = 13.5joule So the stored energy is ¼ in the 15V cap compared to the 30V cap.. so paralleling these 2 caps, 1 at 30V = 54j and 1 at 0V = 0J, we get 2 caps both at 15V = both at 13.5J. Meaning we "use" 54 - (2x13.5) = 27J. So we "use" it during transfer either via a short wire (heat), or via a bulb (heat and light), but in both cases we "use" energy (27J). Itsu « Last Edit: 2019-05-15, 19:41:07 by Itsu »

Vasik041	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #6 on: 2019-05-15, 19:08:57 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Itsu on 2019-05-15, 09:52:08 Meaning we "use" 54 - (2x13.5) = 28J. 54 - 2x13.5 = 27

Itsu	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #7 on: 2019-05-15, 19:40:29 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4092

forest	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #8 on: 2019-05-15, 19:48:52 »
Sr. Member Posts: 462	Quote R demonstrates splitting the positive.................................. Please expain where in video ?

Aking.21	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #9 on: 2019-05-15, 21:43:07 »
Sr. Member Posts: 367	Yes Itsu is correct. So my apologies at not being clear. What I was referring to is that the method of replacing the bulb with a transformer and pulsing the system with a disruptive discharge - which is the kernel of the Benitez system which was modernized by Edwin Gray's "Splitting the Positive" Engine. In the Benitez system one plate of a capacitor is pulse charged whilst the other plate receives a charge through electrostatic induction from the air or from an earth grounding. But in the case of the earth grounding the grounding is also pulsed. During the earth grounding process Benitez uses a trafo in the same way this cap demo does. These Benitez patents are over a hundred years old. I just assumed you all knew about them and had done the experiments. My apologies again for not being clear I guess it's just a nothing burger unless you watch the rest of the video which may show something new. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

ion	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #10 on: 2019-05-16, 02:00:47 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Let's define our terms more precisely, here are the standard definitions in physics: Quote disruptive discharge Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia. Related to disruptive discharge: Disruptive discharge coil disruptive discharge n (General Physics) a sudden large increase in current through an insulating medium resulting from failure of the medium to withstand an applied electric field Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014 Quote disruptive discharge noun Electricity. the sudden, large increase in current through an insulating medium resulting from complete failure of the medium under electrostatic stress . If there is another definition for the term, please list it here so that everyone is on the same page as this term has been bandied about a lot lately without a consensus. Maybe this can help provide some agreement on it's usage. Regarding a FET as a "disruptive discharge" device, it would seem to imply from the definition that the FET would be capable of a single current discharge leading promptly to it's failure. FET's have been used for many decades now in driving coils and transformers. These are the common semiconductor device of switchmode power conversion, which has been well explored, however, I have never seen it referred to as a "disruptive discharge" device. Regards ; --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

web000x	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #11 on: 2019-05-16, 02:04:09 »
Sr. Member Posts: 286	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2019-05-15, 21:43:07 Yes Itsu is correct. So my apologies at not being clear. What I was referring to is that the method of replacing the bulb with a transformer and pulsing the system with a disruptive discharge - which is the kernel of the Benitez system which was modernized by Edwin Gray's "Splitting the Positive" Engine. In the Benitez system one plate of a capacitor is pulse charged whilst the other plate receives a charge through electrostatic induction from the air or from an earth grounding. But in the case of the earth grounding the grounding is also pulsed. During the earth grounding process Benitez uses a trafo in the same way this cap demo does. These Benitez patents are over a hundred years old. I just assumed you all knew about them and had done the experiments. My apologies again for not being clear I guess it's just a nothing burger unless you watch the rest of the video which may show something new. Can you show a demonstration of this method that shows an increase energy (joule) accumulation using the transformer pulsed system? I feel like there is a way to do this, but it comes at some sort of understanding of musical phenomena where tones are mixed and coupled via geometry in a way that is constructive to the aether around it, creating growth phenomena of the fields being manipulated. Probably a pulsed system... I don’t know how to do this nor claim to know. But am all ears... Dave

web000x	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #12 on: 2019-05-16, 02:13:32 »
Sr. Member Posts: 286	Quote from: ion on 2019-05-16, 02:00:47 Let's define our terms more precisely, here are the standard definitions in physics: . If there is another definition for the term, please list it here so that everyone is on the same page as this term has been bandied about a lot lately without a consensus. Maybe this can help provide some agreement on it's usage. Regards . ; I think Dollard got some sort of duality from Steinmetz regarding the disruptive discharge and steady state conditions. Dielectric Disruptive Discharge (Electrostatic Potential) Short Circuit e to I Magnetic Disruptive Discharge (Magneto Motive Force) Open Circuit i to E I know this is about a capacitor, but... I think the term applies for both. Dave

ion	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #13 on: 2019-05-16, 02:32:51 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Old books on electricity usually refer to the breakdown of the air or other insulator on the secondary of a high voltage coil as a "disruptive discharge." I think what is meant is that the normal insulating qualities are "disrupted" due to to high electrostatic stress. Quote ARC: A disruptive discharge of electricity through an insulator, typically a gas, normally characterized by a voltage drop. This can be a single event, intermittent or continuous. Same as Flashover. Quote FLASHOVER: A disruptive discharge of electricity through an insulator, normally characterized by a voltage drop. Also, a discharge around or over a liquid or solid material. This can be a single event, intermittent or continuous. Same as Arc. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Aking.21	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #14 on: 2019-05-16, 06:58:08 »
Sr. Member Posts: 367	Quote from: web000x on 2019-05-16, 02:04:09 Can you show a demonstration of this method that shows an increase energy (joule) accumulation using the transformer pulsed system? I feel like there is a way to do this, but it comes at some sort of understanding of musical phenomena where tones are mixed and coupled via geometry in a way that is constructive to the aether around it, creating growth phenomena of the fields being manipulated. Probably a pulsed system... I don’t know how to do this nor claim to know. But am all ears... Dave patent 121561A Carlos Benitez granted 24th December 1918 You had to produce a working model in those days. He uses a 70khz odd oscillator and the device outputs a constant 1.5 KW Input is via a stack of batteries at 60 volts. It even has a motor and generator in the device. Obviously our alternators are much more efficient these days. It's full of on and off pulsing all over the place. He even gives the precise mathematical calculations. It's mighty complicated though and took me several days to figure it out - even then I was not 100% sure of the arithmetic. It uses the old Benitez trick of charging in parallel whilst discharging in series - and intercepting the discharge with a stack of components. (splitting the positive if you like). It's a good one for those with a good mathematical understanding to analyze though. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

forest	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #15 on: 2019-05-16, 11:55:17 »
Sr. Member Posts: 462	disruptive discharge = discharge which is disrupted , uhm ?

gyula	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #16 on: 2019-05-16, 17:17:50 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1117	A.king21, What is your definition of COP?

ion	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #17 on: 2019-05-17, 00:08:21 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: forest on 2019-05-16, 11:55:17 disruptive discharge = discharge which is disrupted , uhm ? By this erroneous line of reasoning, a "disruptive student" is equal to the "student that is disrupted" ??, when it is actually the class and teacher that is disrupted. There is a big difference between a disrupted discharge, and a disruptive discharge, but it seems the two are being confused and even sometimes conflated. a disruptive discharge acts on something else (e.g.the insulators normal properties are disrupted, it then momentarily becomes a conductor) A disrupted discharge= the discharge itself is disrupted (interrupted e.g. by magnetic blowout of the arc) Regards --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

muDped	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #18 on: 2019-05-17, 01:19:24 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	In the early days of Radar the Disruptive Discharge across an Air Gap was very useful until devices were devised which would accomplish the "switching" with precise controls and increased stability. Long before the advent of Radar the Spark Gap was used extensively in early Radio Transmitters used for RadioTelegraphy. Nowadays we have a variety of devices to choose from to accomplish a similar result. Does Disruptive Discharge offer advantages over the devices which accomplish nearly the same effect? « Last Edit: 2019-05-17, 06:14:27 by muDped » --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

web000x	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #19 on: 2019-05-17, 04:50:19 »
Sr. Member Posts: 286	Quote from: ion on 2019-05-17, 00:08:21 By this erroneous line of reasoning, a "disruptive student" is equal to the "student that is disrupted" ??, when it is actually the class and teacher that is disrupted. There is a big difference between a disrupted discharge, and a disruptive discharge, but it seems the two are being confused and even sometimes conflated. a disruptive discharge acts on something else (e.g.the insulators normal properties are disrupted, it then momentarily becomes a conductor) A disrupted discharge= the discharge itself is disrupted (interrupted e.g. by magnetic blowout of the arc) Regards Yes, you’re correct. I was misusing the term. I had made an analogy in my head to disruptive discharges being either dielectric or magnetic discharges at switching transitions. In reality, that would be impulse generation, not disruptive discharge. Thanks for calling my attention to that. Dave

ion	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #20 on: 2019-05-17, 17:29:29 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: web000x on 2019-05-17, 04:50:19 Yes, you’re correct. I was misusing the term. I had made an analogy in my head to disruptive discharges being either dielectric or magnetic discharges at switching transitions. In reality, that would be impulse generation, not disruptive discharge. Thanks for calling my attention to that. Dave Dear Dave I can see where semantics can be applied to produce a variety of possible definitions especially when adjectives and verbs are combined to create a composite new word grouping . So nothing is cast in stone here, and a lot is subject to interpretation. I was just trying to understand how R.F. and Aking21 are using the descriptor in regard to a FET as switching device. I would be interested in their definition. Regards --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Aking.21	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #21 on: 2019-05-17, 18:40:54 »
Sr. Member Posts: 367	Quote from: ion on 2019-05-17, 17:29:29 Dear Dave I can see where semantics can be applied to produce a variety of possible definitions especially when adjectives and verbs are combined to create a composite new word grouping . So nothing is cast in stone here, and a lot is subject to interpretation. I was just trying to understand how R.F. and Aking21 are using the descriptor in regard to a FET as switching device. I would be interested in their definition. Regards The "transistor" does not come into it. It's the discharging of the caps in the gate driver plus caps that get us nearer to Tesla's definition of a disruptive discharge. Most people think that Tesla's tech is based on pulsed DC. It isn't - and Tesla says it's a different type of electricity. The gate driver is just a minor step in that direction. Most semiconductors get wrecked near a disruptive discharge because it is seen as an EMP. So maybe Tesla's tech is better described as pulsed E.M.P. electricity. Yeah, thinking about it that's a good definition using today's words. So a spark gap is also a type of high frequency E.M.P. I've only just started experimenting with frequency generator driven gate drivers without their intended mosfets. So it's relatively new to me. Oh and we also need high frequency. If you look at Kapanadze's patent application you will see a high frequency generator series L1 tank and a frequency reducer series L2 tank. All in resonance....with an earth ground to get the electrons at high frequency. Ther is no overunity here - just a way of getting electrons from the ambient background and using them. Don't believe me. Read Benitez's patent (granted with a working model). His device is: input zero - output 1.5kw+. COP infinity. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

F6FLT	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #22 on: 2019-05-18, 10:28:09 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1979	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2019-05-16, 06:58:08 patent 121561A Carlos Benitez granted 24th December 1918 ... He even gives the precise mathematical calculations. ... If the "precise" mathematical calculations give COP>1, either he made a calculation error or he did not use the right equations. The mathematical formalism of physics is internally consistent and guarantees energy conservation. So either it has failed and there is no overunity, or there is overunity, but then the experiment must show it and its results will be in contradiction with the calculations made from engineering formulas or physics equations, as long as an unknown energy source is not integrated into the equations. Since the hidden energy source is not included in his calculations while the COP would be higher than 1, we can already see that this patent contradicts the most elementary logic as much as the statement that 1+1=3. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Reiyuki	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #23 on: 2019-05-18, 20:55:22 »
Group: Mad Scientist Full Member Posts: 185	Quote from: F6FLT on 2019-05-18, 10:28:09 If the "precise" mathematical calculations give COP>1, either he made a calculation error or he did not use the right equations. The mathematical formalism of physics is internally consistent and guarantees energy conservation. Follow this portion around 2hr54min where Eric Dollard talks about the hysteresis cycle and explains that parametric variation of inductance or capacitance with respect to time can indeed lead to non-conservative hysteresis loops. https://youtu.be/cCJcU7INwnU?t=10309 To reconcile this with standard physics, you could just say the extra energy is being extracted from the 'dirac sea' or similar ------------------------ Charging a capacitor with a gain NonconservativeHysteresis.jpg (46.88 kB, 574x478 - viewed 451 times.) --------------------------- When you say something is impossible, you have made it impossible

F6FLT	Re: Charging a capacitor with a gain « Reply #24 on: 2019-05-19, 13:26:22 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1979	No mathematical development of physics applied to a closed system that remains unchanged can show additional energy, a question of the internal coherence of mathematical formalism in physics. So if Dollard finds any in his equations, he's wrong. You don't have to be a physicist to understand it. If energy is extracted from the "Dirac Sea", it must be shown experimentally and explained using equations including the "Dirac Sea". This extra energy cannot be inferred from equations that do not include it. Eric Dollar only has books to sell. Perhaps he has some interesting things but the fact that he does not have the support of exotic reproducible experiments and especially that he has the support of Murakami does not plead in his favour, on the contrary, see https://douktris.wordpress.com/2015/03/18/the-tragedy-of-eric-dollard-and-the-fall-of-aaron-murakami-2/ --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

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