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Author Topic: Charging a capacitor with a gain  (Read 646 times)

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Here's the cat among the pigeons.  I've been doing this Benitez trick for years, but seeing as R's revealed it you may all as well have the secret.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1hNQsr9YnkIjFkMAc3Npw
1 HOUR 6 minutes in. C1 charges c2 whilst powering a bulb for almost free.  COP?  pretty high.  Using 120,000 uf caps.
(You can do this with car batteries)
R demonstrates splitting the positive..................................

Criticism welcome.

Ha ha ha.


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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   
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Here's the cat among the pigeons.  I've been doing this Benitez trick for years, but seeing as R's revealed it you may all as well have the secret.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1hNQsr9YnkIjFkMAc3Npw
1 HOUR 6 minutes in. C1 charges c2 whilst powering a bulb for almost free.  COP?  pretty high.  Using 120,000 uf caps.
(You can do this with car batteries)
R demonstrates splitting the positive..................................

Criticism welcome.

Ha ha ha.

A.king,

Respectively, exactly what is the "secret" we should extract from RF's video? 

Regards,
Pm
   

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A.king,

Respectively, exactly what is the "secret" we should extract from RF's video? 

Regards,
Pm

The cap is charged for free   (ish).  I'm not gonna post the schematics -  you can do this with many circuits.
Just build it and see for your self.  Read Carlos Benitez's patents.  He uses this technique all the time.
This stuff is a hundred years old.


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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   
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A.king21,

What is your definition of COP? 
   

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Buy me some coffee
Here's the cat among the pigeons.  I've been doing this Benitez trick for years, but seeing as R's revealed it you may all as well have the secret.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1hNQsr9YnkIjFkMAc3Npw
1 HOUR 6 minutes in. C1 charges c2 whilst powering a bulb for almost free.  COP?  pretty high.  Using 120,000 uf caps.
(You can do this with car batteries)
R demonstrates splitting the positive..................................

Criticism welcome.

Ha ha ha.

Instead of posting links to RFs youtube of endless nothingness,and making claims of free energy devices,you should first be required to provide proof of such claims in the form of a working prototype and schematic,so as others here can replicate and validate your claims--as they are becoming quite frequent.

RF has nothing to offer,other than hours of air time,where he consistently shows nothing.

Perhaps Peter could remind you of the rules when it comes to making claims of free energy devices.

Once again,your topic title state's that your are claiming a free energy (overunity) device. And once again it is from RF.


Brad


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using:
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/electronics/capacitor_energy

Stored enery: in a 120000uF cap at:

30v = 54joule
15V = 13.5joule

So the stored energy is ¼ in the 15V cap compared to the 30V cap..

so paralleling these 2 caps, 1 at 30V = 54j and 1 at 0V = 0J,
we get 2 caps both at 15V = both at 13.5J.

Meaning we "use" 54 - (2x13.5) = 27J.

So we "use" it during transfer either via a short wire (heat), or via a bulb (heat and light), but
in both cases we "use" energy (27J).

Itsu 
« Last Edit: 2019-05-15, 19:41:07 by Itsu »
   

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Meaning we "use" 54 - (2x13.5) = 28J.

54 - 2x13.5 = 27



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 O0
   
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Quote
R demonstrates splitting the positive..................................

Please expain where in video ?
   

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Yes Itsu is correct.  So my apologies at not being clear.  What I was referring to is that the method of replacing the bulb with a transformer and pulsing the system with a disruptive discharge - which  is the kernel of the Benitez system which was modernized by Edwin Gray's "Splitting the Positive" Engine.
In the Benitez system one plate of a capacitor is pulse charged whilst the other plate receives a charge through electrostatic induction from the air or from an earth grounding.  But in the case of the earth grounding the grounding is also pulsed.  During the earth grounding process Benitez uses a trafo in the same way this cap  demo does. These Benitez patents are over a hundred years old. I just assumed you all knew about them and had done the experiments.
My apologies again for not being clear I guess it's just a nothing burger unless you watch the rest of the video which may show something new.


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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Let's define our terms more precisely, here are the standard definitions in physics:

Quote
disruptive discharge
Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Related to disruptive discharge: Disruptive discharge coil
disruptive discharge
n
(General Physics) a sudden large increase in current through an insulating medium resulting from failure of the medium to withstand an applied electric field
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

Quote
disruptive discharge
noun Electricity.
the sudden, large increase in current through an insulating medium resulting from complete failure of the medium under electrostatic stress
.

If there is another definition for the term, please list it here so that everyone is on the same page as this term has been bandied about a lot lately without a consensus. Maybe this can help provide some agreement on it's usage.

Regarding a FET as a "disruptive discharge" device, it would seem to imply from the definition that the FET would be capable of a single current discharge leading promptly to it's failure.
 
FET's have been used for many decades now in driving coils and transformers. These are the common semiconductor device of switchmode power  conversion, which has been well explored, however, I have never seen it referred to as a "disruptive discharge" device.

Regards









;


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Yes Itsu is correct.  So my apologies at not being clear.  What I was referring to is that the method of replacing the bulb with a transformer and pulsing the system with a disruptive discharge - which  is the kernel of the Benitez system which was modernized by Edwin Gray's "Splitting the Positive" Engine.
In the Benitez system one plate of a capacitor is pulse charged whilst the other plate receives a charge through electrostatic induction from the air or from an earth grounding.  But in the case of the earth grounding the grounding is also pulsed.  During the earth grounding process Benitez uses a trafo in the same way this cap  demo does. These Benitez patents are over a hundred years old. I just assumed you all knew about them and had done the experiments.
My apologies again for not being clear I guess it's just a nothing burger unless you watch the rest of the video which may show something new.

Can you show a demonstration of this method that shows an increase energy (joule) accumulation using the transformer pulsed system?  I feel like there is a way to do this, but it comes at some sort of understanding of musical phenomena where tones are mixed and coupled via geometry in a way that is constructive to the aether around it, creating growth phenomena of the fields being manipulated.  Probably a pulsed system...  I don’t know how to do this nor claim to know.  But am all ears...

Dave
   
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Let's define our terms more precisely, here are the standard definitions in physics:
.

If there is another definition for the term, please list it here so that everyone is on the same page as this term has been bandied about a lot lately without a consensus. Maybe this can help provide some agreement on it's usage.

Regards




.






;

I think Dollard got some sort of duality from Steinmetz regarding the disruptive discharge and steady state conditions.

Dielectric Disruptive Discharge (Electrostatic Potential)
  Short Circuit
  e to I

Magnetic Disruptive Discharge (Magneto Motive Force)
  Open Circuit
  i to E


I know this is about a capacitor, but...  I think the term applies for both.

Dave
   
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Old books on electricity usually refer to the breakdown of the air or other insulator on the secondary of a high voltage coil as a "disruptive discharge."

I think what is meant is that the normal insulating qualities are "disrupted" due to to high electrostatic stress.

Quote
ARC:  A disruptive discharge of electricity through an insulator, typically a gas, normally characterized by a voltage drop.  This can be a single event, intermittent or continuous.  Same as Flashover.

Quote
FLASHOVER:  A disruptive discharge of electricity through an insulator, normally characterized by a voltage drop.  Also, a discharge around or over a liquid or solid material.  This can be a single event, intermittent or continuous.  Same as Arc.

 


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Can you show a demonstration of this method that shows an increase energy (joule) accumulation using the transformer pulsed system?  I feel like there is a way to do this, but it comes at some sort of understanding of musical phenomena where tones are mixed and coupled via geometry in a way that is constructive to the aether around it, creating growth phenomena of the fields being manipulated.  Probably a pulsed system...  I don’t know how to do this nor claim to know.  But am all ears...

Dave

patent 121561A  Carlos Benitez granted 24th December 1918 

You had to produce a working model in those days.  He uses a 70khz odd oscillator and the device outputs a constant 1.5 KW  Input is via a stack of batteries at 60 volts.  It even has a motor and generator in the device.  Obviously our alternators are much more efficient these days.
It's full of on and off pulsing all over the place.  He even gives the precise mathematical calculations.  It's mighty complicated though and took me several days to figure it out  - even then I was not 100% sure of the arithmetic.
It uses the old Benitez trick of charging in parallel whilst discharging in series - and intercepting the discharge with a stack of components.  (splitting the positive if you like).  It's a good one for those with a good mathematical understanding to analyze though.


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disruptive discharge = discharge which is disrupted , uhm ?
   
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A.king21,

What is your definition of COP? 
   
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disruptive discharge = discharge which is disrupted , uhm ?

By this erroneous line of reasoning, a "disruptive student" is equal to the "student that is disrupted" ??, when it is actually the class and teacher that is disrupted.

There is a big difference between a disrupted discharge, and a disruptive discharge, but it seems the two are being confused and even sometimes conflated.

a disruptive discharge acts on something else (e.g.the insulators normal properties are disrupted, it then momentarily becomes a conductor)

A disrupted discharge= the discharge itself is disrupted (interrupted e.g. by magnetic blowout of the arc)

Regards



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In the early days of Radar the Disruptive Discharge
across an Air Gap was very useful until devices were
devised which would accomplish the "switching"
with precise controls and increased stability.

Long before the advent of Radar the Spark Gap was
used extensively in early Radio Transmitters used for
RadioTelegraphy.

Nowadays we have a variety of devices to choose
from to accomplish a similar result.

Does Disruptive Discharge offer advantages over the
devices which accomplish nearly the same effect?
« Last Edit: 2019-05-17, 06:14:27 by muDped »


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By this erroneous line of reasoning, a "disruptive student" is equal to the "student that is disrupted" ??, when it is actually the class and teacher that is disrupted.

There is a big difference between a disrupted discharge, and a disruptive discharge, but it seems the two are being confused and even sometimes conflated.

a disruptive discharge acts on something else (e.g.the insulators normal properties are disrupted, it then momentarily becomes a conductor)

A disrupted discharge= the discharge itself is disrupted (interrupted e.g. by magnetic blowout of the arc)

Regards

Yes, you’re correct.  I was misusing the term.  I had made an analogy in my head to disruptive discharges being either dielectric or magnetic discharges at switching transitions.  In reality, that would be impulse generation, not disruptive discharge.  Thanks for calling my attention to that.  O0

Dave
   
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Yes, you’re correct.  I was misusing the term.  I had made an analogy in my head to disruptive discharges being either dielectric or magnetic discharges at switching transitions.  In reality, that would be impulse generation, not disruptive discharge.  Thanks for calling my attention to that.  O0
Dave
Dear Dave
I can see where semantics can be applied to produce a variety of possible definitions especially when adjectives and verbs are combined to create a composite new word grouping . So nothing is cast in stone here, and a lot is subject to interpretation.

I was just trying to understand how R.F. and Aking21 are using the descriptor in regard to a FET as switching device. I would be interested in their definition.
Regards


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Dear Dave
I can see where semantics can be applied to produce a variety of possible definitions especially when adjectives and verbs are combined to create a composite new word grouping . So nothing is cast in stone here, and a lot is subject to interpretation.

I was just trying to understand how R.F. and Aking21 are using the descriptor in regard to a FET as switching device. I would be interested in their definition.
Regards
The "transistor" does not come into it. It's the discharging of the caps in the gate driver plus caps that get us nearer to Tesla's definition of a disruptive discharge.  Most people think that Tesla's tech is based on pulsed DC.  It isn't - and Tesla says it's a different type of electricity.  The gate driver is just a minor step in that direction. Most semiconductors get wrecked near a disruptive discharge because it is seen as an EMP. So maybe Tesla's tech is better described as pulsed E.M.P.  electricity. Yeah, thinking about it that's a good definition using today's words. So a spark gap is also a type of high frequency E.M.P.
I've only just started experimenting with frequency generator driven gate drivers without their intended mosfets. So it's relatively new to me. Oh and we also need high frequency.  If you look at Kapanadze's patent application you will see a high frequency generator series L1 tank and a frequency reducer series L2 tank. All in resonance....with an earth ground to get the electrons at high frequency.
Ther is no overunity here - just a way of getting electrons from the ambient background and using them.  Don't believe me. Read Benitez's patent (granted with a  working model).  His device is: input zero - output 1.5kw+. COP infinity.


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patent 121561A  Carlos Benitez granted 24th December 1918 

... He even gives the precise mathematical calculations. ...

If the "precise" mathematical calculations give COP>1, either he made a calculation error or he did not use the right equations.
The mathematical formalism of physics is internally consistent and guarantees energy conservation.

So either it has failed and there is no overunity, or there is overunity, but then the experiment must show it and its results will be in contradiction with the calculations made from engineering formulas or physics equations, as long as an unknown energy source is not integrated into the equations.

Since the hidden energy source is not included in his calculations while the COP would be higher than 1, we can already see that this patent contradicts the most elementary logic as much as the statement that 1+1=3.


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If the "precise" mathematical calculations give COP>1, either he made a calculation error or he did not use the right equations.
The mathematical formalism of physics is internally consistent and guarantees energy conservation.

Follow this portion around 2hr54min where Eric Dollard talks about the hysteresis cycle and explains that parametric variation of inductance or capacitance with respect to time can indeed lead to non-conservative hysteresis loops.

https://youtu.be/cCJcU7INwnU?t=10309

To reconcile this with standard physics, you could just say the extra energy is being extracted from the 'dirac sea' or similar :P
   
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No mathematical development of physics applied to a closed system that remains unchanged can show additional energy, a question of the internal coherence of mathematical formalism in physics. So if Dollard finds any in his equations, he's wrong. You don't have to be a physicist to understand it.

If energy is extracted from the "Dirac Sea", it must be shown experimentally and explained using equations including the "Dirac Sea". This extra energy cannot be inferred from equations that do not include it.

Eric Dollar only has books to sell. Perhaps he has some interesting things but the fact that he does not have the support of exotic reproducible experiments and especially that he has the support of Murakami does not plead in his favour, on the contrary, see https://douktris.wordpress.com/2015/03/18/the-tragedy-of-eric-dollard-and-the-fall-of-aaron-murakami-2/


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