Debates on the Status of the FE Community aka the 7 Watt Challenge

[ion]

Threads are really getting mucked up with arguments to and fro regarding the status of FE and OU, research, bogus claims etc. Arguments specific to a device should probably be kept in those threads. All misc arguments, discussion, claims  etc post here.

I'll start the ball rolling by challenging anyone to supply proof of an OU  or FE device I can build right now that will power a 7 Watt incandescent lamp,  indefinitely. (night light type or equivalent)

Now, 7 measly watts, that's not too much to ask is it?

Batteries can only be used for startup, unit must self run.

Please include the detailed build instructions and a video proving you have built one that works.

For this you will win a prize from behind door 1, door 2, or door 3, your choice.

Please don't point me to youtube videos of others or devices that you have not built. No Solar, Wind, Geothermal, Nuclear or Waterwheels or Hot air from FE forums powered devices, thank you.

[wattsup]

What are you talking about. No one on this forum is making any bogus claims, or asking anyone for money, or trying to sell dvds. So why bring this here?

I don't know why you guys keep on opening threads on such small whims.

Look, this place is sacred ground. I don't give two f's about what happens on the outside with this or that person selling this or that. Who the hell cares. Then guys have to argue about EE discrepancies, What is there to argue about. They are real so get over it. I can list over 10 major ones but will not yet, simply because I have not found a solid EEer that has enough interest to "maybe" learn from the process. All I read is "ridiculous", "impossible", EE knows all, bahhhh.

The only important thing here is what is being done on the bench, what theory is new enough that can open a new vision, what can help guys work better in OU or see a new perspective. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

You guys need to get off the post button and just do some work. Some serious work. Don't post ever time you change a screw setting. Just a whole bunch of garbage being thrown around, one guy is anti-OU, the other can't say two words without being bamboozled, and now we have to bear the brunt of other OUers selling DVDs. WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT DVD's. No one will get rich selling DVDs or organizing OU meetings. It's just a passion and some of these guys have been at it for decades and have brought out some interesting effects that others can grow on and advance. Bad mouthing them is just juvenile and cowardly if you ask me. Just junk.

So I ask again. WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

And why are you challenging anyone here to anything anyways?

Why are you guys so damn pressed with insignificant crap just goes above my head.

I suggest you all practice one thing. Never post anything if you do not think about it for less then 1 hour. Within that hour you may realize how stupid you may sound and just not post.

Sometimes the best post is the one you don't post. Sometimes saying nothing is smarter then just saying anything. Sometimes silence is the best teacher because it gives you time to contemplate your position, before you make an ass of yourself.

The litmus test is this. If it has nothing to do with finding OU, don't post here.

What a damn waste of time reading all this stuff. It was enough on OU but now we're at it here.

Who the hell wants a debate on the status of OU. If you don't know what the status is already, then I won't waste my time telling you.

I suggest you kindly ask @poynt99 to just delete this thread.

@poynt99

Milehigh is a great member and I have waited around hoping he would finally turn around and become a helpful member here. But this has not materialized and from my viewpoint, he will never come around to the OU side. His presence here is truly disruptive and all he can offer is what we already know. OU is impossible. Yeh Yeh, we know that already so I don't need to read this same blah blah day in and day out. At one poynt or another, something will have to give.

It is too bad. I am sure Milehigh would be an extremely important asset to our endeavor but I realize now his heart is not into it at all and there is no chance for that to change or mature, and I ain't spending my days reading more of the same, "can't be" crap.

[poynt99]

I'm not sure why some of you guys are expressing hostility here.

I seem to recall not too long ago there was some philosophical posting happening inside what should have been a strictly technical thread. I corrected that. However, I have nothing against these types of threads if they are on their own, and this one is. It is only disruptive if you read it, don't like it, then continue to read it. That is your choice.

I would suggest to everyone that if a thread disagrees with you, don't read there. As long as technical threads remain mostly technical, and philosophical threads are on their own, and no one is becoming malicious, there is no harm being done.

Freedom of speech (within reason) is part of what this forum is all about. That's also part of what makes this place 'sacred ground' as you so eloquently put it wattsup. You are a valuable member here also, but that does not mean I have to agree with everything you say, and I don't. Everyone has their place and purpose, even the WilbyInebriated's of the world (as much as I hate to admit it, LOL).

So guys, relax a little...bend a little... let go a little, and enjoy what we have here.

Cheers,
.99

[Grumpy]

MH is fine.  His perspective is normal.  Lacking in open-mindedness and insight, but normal.  Of course, that is just my take.

The point here is that so many talk a lot of smack about energy devices, but they got nothin'. 

[MileHigh]

Wattsup:

If you ever host an experiment here and I become involved you will see that I can be an important asset.  I am not trying to be disruptive at all.  I am just sharing my thoughts, and sometimes they definitely argue against over unity, but I am not looking for an opportunity to jump on a thread and ruin it.  I am just telling you how I see it.

Grumpy, thanks for the kind words.  I'm sorry you see me as lacking in open-mindedness and insight, to each his own.

I've got nothin' when it comes to devices, but at the same time I have spent thousands of hours on the bench and I did hundreds of experiments - at school.  I think that there is some real value there and hopefully that can come out from time to time.  I admit I tend to deal with tangibles and I am wary of intangibles.  It's my way of thinking.

Poynt:  I kicked up some crap today because I had to, and I think that it has been resolved.  I am no angel, but I am certainly not a devil.  I am sorry for the ruckus and I hope it's over.  Thank you for your patience.

MileHigh

[Chet K]

Well
Wattsup
I think we need at least one rucus thread,

MH ,ION
Seeing as how HHO isn;t really discussed much at OU or here

I will be needing a method that can be used to establish the efficiency of an HHO cell?
In the mean time
7 watts??
Look at this [mostly the present site link]



The present site......
http://www.starscientific.com.au

The Patent US3954592......
http://energyshowandtell.wetpaint.com/page/US3954592%2FHorvath%2F1976

[poynt99]

Poynt:  I kicked up some crap today because I had to, and I think that it has been resolved.  I am no angel, but I am certainly not a devil.  I am sorry for the ruckus and I hope it's over.  Thank you for your patience.

MileHigh

I think we worked through some necessary stuff.

How boring life would be if our alphabet soup only contained a single letter.


.99

[ion]

WOW Wattsup:

Get a grip, man. read my first post on this thread, no mention of DVD's  etc. You are carrying too much baggage from other comments into this thread. I was merely creating a place to debate rather than clutter up other serious threads.

I started this as a tongue in cheek humorous thread. I seem to have hit a nerve. You also seem to have it out for anyone who has taken the time to educate themselves.

For what it's worth, I am mostly self taught, although I had an excellent mentor.

As a very young man I was pursuing FE, and  I was like many FE researchers, I made many errors in reasoning and measurement. I had more fervor than knowledge.

That was the first 30 years of my life. Took me a long time to learn.

Second 30 years I decided to educate myself so that I could get the bigger picture in electromagnetics and have a good handle on what I was doing.

I was already familiar with all the wild FE claims, the jargon etc. This all has been going on a lot longer than you may realize and now it has been fashioned into an industry.

With just a little bit of self education in electromagnetics, I now had a good framework to evaluate what is really happening in inductive circuits, and I was able to look back on my "folly".

So you see, I started out like many that I now see.  In a way I have gained some perspective.

"It is great to have a dream, and to pursue it, but make sure you are not sleepwalking"

I'm not against the idea of free energy or I would not be here. It continues to be one of my fervent dreams. There are a very small handful of devices that I would consider worthy of study, but that is my opinion.

I posted the 7 Watt challenge because it is very reasonable. For nearly 100 years (maybe more) people have been trying to build FE devices, but there is no device on the market after all this time that can light a tiny 7 watt bulb. Prove me wrong, as I would very much enjoy being in error on this issue.


Sorry that you took offense

[Kooler]

Now, 7 measly watts, that's not too much to ask is it?
For this you will win a prize from behind door 1, door 2, or door 3, your choice.
Please don't point me to youtube videos of others or devices that you have not built. No Solar, Wind, Geothermal, Nuclear or Waterwheels or Hot air from FE forums powered devices, thank you.

may i ask.. what is the prize.. door 1-2-3
is it better than the 15,000$
just wondering ??

robbie

[ion]

may i ask.. what is the prize.. door 1-2-3
is it better than the 15,000$
just wondering ??

robbie

Hi Robbie

Thanks for asking. I haven't been able to raise a lot of cash, only $37 so far, so I can't compete with the prize being offered on this forum by POYNT, but hey, only 7 measly Watts isn't a lot to ask for so I've scaled the prizes accordingly.

So far I've been able to get a lot of donations of rare collectible items from friends and there will be one or more of the following prizes behind Door 1, Door2 , or Door 3. Looks like this will be exciting!! (I hope my circuit  works)

A small list of some of the prizes behind the doors, this will be expanded as we get more donations:

A full set of hardly used Samsonite Luggage

A crusty B&K 1500 Series Oscilloscope (from my basement junkpile of rare collectibles)

A lifesize bust of Nelson Rockefeller

A 1968 Fender Stratocaster Guitar Replica, Mexican made, believed to be used once by Jimi Hendrix (thats what the guy at the pawn shop where I bought it said. Actually it wasn't used once it was held once when JimI was in the pawn shop)

An autographed framed picture of Donnie and Marie Osmond.

A set of Ronco Knives (as seen on TV) complete set, unopened.

A KTEL best of the 60's LP set.

An 8 track home stereo system, auto reverse, with record feature and collection of tapes of such famous artists as Engelbert Humperdink, Herb Alpert, Deep Purple and more.

An autographed Liberace LP, and Candelabra believed to be from one of his performances.

A John Deere Tractor, 42"cut (NMR)

There are many more prizes that have been promised, but I won't list them untill I can be sure I will get them.

If anyone has anything the'd like to donate to the measly 7 Watt Challenge, let me know. Good luck to all, rev up those soldering irons.

[wattsup]

@ION

I perceived that this thread was started as an extension on what was being said on the bi-toroid thread hence my reference to DVDs. As for a prize Walrus Jaw bookends are really nice. lol

I would like to also excuse myself for blowing the top off but you know what, something had to give. Since @otto has passed away I have been really edgy and realize all the time we just waste and waste on so much childish gibberish. It just got me too wound up.

Let's just get back to what we do best and that is learn more about OU potential, with no string attached.

Thanks.

@MH

Just know that we here are not all responsible for others OU actions, just like you are not responsible for all the EEers that make all the useless gadgets we are bombarded with on a daily basis, nor are you responsible for a computer industry that continuously insists that upgrading perfectly functional devices is where it's at. Every industry and domain of interest that I know of has its drawbacks. Medical researchers often falsify or embellish results so they can get more bucks to continue their illusions. The car industry in tandem with the oil industry have kept gas consumption to acceptable maximums while they lobby government for laxer regulations. Companies like Monsanto are cornering the food market and insist we eat their sterile, nutrition lacking junk. We are surrounded by so much crap, it is still amazing we are still alive. So in the grand scheme of things, the OU effort, whatever it may cause as side effects is not the real cause of the worlds problems, it is the lack of OU research that is the problem. So let's just work together to see the light. lol

I had to brush up on some antenna basics so I just re-read this page from Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_%28radio%29

If you bring all our works down to one common denominator, our pulsed coils are basically transmission antennas when pulsed high enough, and pick-up coils are again basically receiver antennas when they are well coupled to a passive resonant circuit.

So if you have one central emitter surrounded by a set of receiving antennas that are tuned to the pulsed frequency and positioned to minimize any emission from moving past the receiving antennas, could we "assume" or "presume" or "deduce" that this could be a potential form of OU.

The thing is though that you cannot really pulse an antenna so it catches anything because the pulse is going outwards. So making a self-induced antenna is probably not possible.

If you extend this to trying to receive ether energy or stresses via an antenna, then again there is a very big problem since you need to find the right frequency or frequencies that will render that antenna closer to the affinity of ether. But the antenna cannot really change its parameters since it is a fixed and inert object that can only work one way or the other, like a diode. The antenna is in essence receiving all the frequencies in the universe or a range of these and the resonant end is only discriminating those frequencies to hone in onto one specific frequency.

So what if two or three antennas were used. Each antenna has its own resonant circuit that can be variable and the product of this is sent to a toroid coil with two primary and two secondary coils, the core of which could be considered as a dielectric that can gain with further cycling. The other end of the primaries are then sent to outer coils that are wound around the antennas and those two coils also pulsed to the same frequency or frequencies as the antennas are receiving. This would then create a loop where the antenna circuit feeds the toroid primaries that feed the transmission coils. The output would then be the toroid secondaries that are isolated from the loop end. Hmmmmmmm.

I know some will read more into this then just what is being said. Ya man, a passive antenna loop that then feeds its own re-transmission. lol

[MileHigh]

Chet:

HHO or as I prefer to call it, 2H2 + O2, is something I know very little about.  However, if you measure the volume of gas (at STP) produced by a cell and you measure the amount of electrical energy required to produce that amount of gas that would be a start.  You should be able to look up how much energy is contained in a given volume of "HHO" gas in a chemistry book or on a chemistry web site.  So you could compare the two values.  We are not factoring in how efficient you are at doing something useful with that gas, which is a separate issue.

I took a quick look at the Star Scientific web site and I had never heard of muon catalyzed fusion.  The Wikipedia entry says that it's legit science but more energy out than in is problematic.  So I doubt that it's real.  I suspect the company is leveraging off legitimate science and feigning promising a breakthrough.  Note the company was founded 12 years ago and I am assuming still no breakthrough in site.  From my 10-minute evaluation I am guessing that they are a fake company masquerading as a legit company.  Sorry, I almost never read patents.

Wattsup:

You make a lot of legitimate points about corporations and the faults inherent in a consumer society but I still think the glass is more than half full.

For antennas, the whole realm of microwave theory is very complicated.  Please don't mind me saying that you are drifting off into free energy wishful thinking land in your antenna treatise.  All of our understanding of them says that they are CoE devices.  If you consider electromagnetic fields and ether (or aether) to be synonymous that's one thing.  On the other hand, if you think an antenna operates on two levels, an EM level and an ether level at the same time, then somebody has to prove that and find evidence of it.  I only know of antennas working on the EM level.

MileHigh

[confgoer]

I believe what the spirit of this is to make some sort of Industry Standard.  A Benchmark.  Let's Agree on something Tangible.

[PhysicsProf]

MH:

I took a quick look at the Star Scientific web site and I had never heard of muon catalyzed fusion.  The Wikipedia entry says that it's legit science but more energy out than in is problematic.  So I doubt that it's real.  I suspect the company is leveraging off legitimate science and feigning promising a breakthrough.  Note the company was founded 12 years ago and I am assuming still no breakthrough in site.

Muon-catalyzed fusion is real, alright -- experimentally verified and studied.  See, e.g.,
"Muon-Catalysed Fusion Revisited," (Invited article) Nature 321: 127-133 (1986).

However, it won't be a source of energy for mankind because the alpha-sticking coefficient is too large (see article), combined with the high energy-cost of making muons (which decay in microseconds).

[PhysicsProf]

  With regard to a prize to encourage OU research -- this forum has such a prize.  Below are the Conditions.  There is a standing invitation for donations to increase the prize money offered to the successful inventor.  The prize stands now at $1,800.   See
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=10.0

This is currently under development, but will include the following:

1) Any person submitting an application for the OUR award must outline in sufficient detail that they have performed adequate measurements to merit their claim and application. This includes both electrical and mechanical devices. The measurements and methods must be included with the application. The device must be able to produce a continuous output power of 15W (minimum) over and above the total amount of power applied to the device as an input source of power. If and when it is deemed that the applicant's submitted measurements are credible, the applicant will either submit the prototype for testing by OUR, or provide all the details necessary to replicate the device in question.

2) If this person is either unwilling or unable to properly perform the required measurements, OUR may partake in the additional measurements on an adequate replication (or an applicant-submitted prototype) themselves using their own test equipment, in order to determine the merit of the application.

3) If the device is self-sustaining while producing a continuous excess output power of 15W (minimum), and can be properly demonstrated as such, either in person, or with an applicant-submitted prototype, the OUR Award will be granted to the applicant. Alternatively, the applicant may submit to OUR all the details necessary to replicate the device in question.

4) In the event the application is successful and the OUR Award is to be granted, the applicant must first agree to publicly open-source the full details of the submitted device before the Award is offered.


the OUR team.

[ion]

 With regard to a prize to encourage OU research -- this forum has such a prize.  Below are the Conditions.  There is a standing invitation for donations to increase the prize money offered to the successful inventor.  The prize stands now at $1,800.   See
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=10.0

You must admit the prizes I'm offering are more interesting than mere money. Looks like you might have a snowballs chance at the Walrus Jaw bookends, they would be appropriate and quite fitting for your den.

But you'll have to hurry up and learn how to use that scope. And learning how to build a solid breadboard wouldn't hurt, not to even bring "probes" into the discussion.

Meanwhile I've built up several versions of the circuit under discussion and tested them for efficiency.
Needless to say I am disqualified from the prizes, however the circuit only delivers between 44% and with a lot of major circuit improvements up to 80%.

Want to see what a good clean scope trace looks like? Upper trace current ramp in 1.0 Ohm resistor,
lower trace transistor collector. It's so good you can eyeball the area under the curve and closely approximate the rms current. All on an old TEK 422. The trace would have been even cleaner, but the camera blurred it a bit.

But I don't eyeball anything, I use the techniques presented here to test switchers:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=602.0

And I verify the results with thermal testing.

I'll dig out my DSO and run some traces later but it's complete overkill for this circuit.