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Author Topic: Clemente Figuera revisited  (Read 30885 times)
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https://ugetube.com/watch/4b4pXFmNb8WIsHJ

My work on the Figuera device.  You can go to OverunityMachines.com and look for my build to learn more about it.

Carroll

That's pretty cool.  Can you measure the input voltage / current from what I assume was a signal generator?  The device plugged in this picture...
   

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Believing in something false doesn't make it true.
Floodrod posted an interesting video on OUM that caught my attention.  I wondered if his new way of connecting the power to the Figuera device would yield a better output than the way most of us have tried to connect the circuit.  So I ran an experiment to see what the difference might be.  Here is the video:  https://youtu.be/P6WswleHSzk?si=q06Eq0xLxomaixSw

One thing I did not mention in the video is the difference in the output wave shape. 

I have applied to join the Mooker forum but have not gotten my activation email.  I want to share this video over there.  So if someone else can do that, that would be great.

Carroll


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Hi cifta,  I just manually activated your account -  should be good to login
   

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So I ran an experiment to see what the difference might be.
Here is the video:  https://youtu.be/P6WswleHSzk?si=q06Eq0xLxomaixSw
What did you use for the core of that coil ?
See the yellow arrow in the image attached below:
   

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Hi cifta,  I just manually activated your account -  should be good to login

Thanks!!


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Hi Verpies.

The core is just some electric fence wire.  As you can see from the video that whole coil assembly is not efficient at all.  12 volts in for 1.5 volts out is not too good.  I just grabbed some coils and slapped that together to test Floodrod's idea for powering the Figuera device.  Now I need to build something much more efficient.

Take care,
Carroll


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The core is just some electric fence wire. 
The original Hubbard device used cores like that, too.

How do you ensure that these wires are isolated from each other, so large eddy currents cannot circulate between them and inhibit the induction ?
   

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So did the Cook Coil
   

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The original Hubbard device used cores like that.

How do you ensure that these wires are isolated from each other, so large eddy currents cannot circulate between them and inhibit the induction ?

If memory serves early electromagnetic cores were made of bundles of Iron wires that were tightly packed together before being taken up to dull Red heat. This annealing process produced an oxide coat that had mild insulating properties.

Cheers Graham.


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...early electromagnetic cores were made of bundles of Iron wires that were tightly packed together before being taken up to dull Red heat.
This annealing process produced an oxide coat that had mild insulating properties.
Makes sense.
Did they also use some pickling solution to make a better coat ?
   

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Hello all,

I have recently returned to experimental work in electromagnetics after some time away, and I am currently building and testing a system inspired by early commutator-based induction designs (often associated with Figuera/Buforn concepts).

My approach is strictly practical:

building physical prototypes
measuring input/output
observing behaviour under different timing and load conditions

At this stage, I am not making any performance claims.
The goal is to understand the system behaviour, particularly:

current shaping using a segmented commutator
magnetic field interaction between opposing electromagnets
timing effects and their influence on induction
measurable dΦ/dt in the working gap

The setup currently includes:

laminated cores with pole shoes
multiple primary coils in series
resistor-based current shaping
commutator-driven excitation
battery + buffered DC supply for handling pulsed load

I will be sharing observations and measurements as the work progresses.

If anyone has experience with similar commutator-based systems, particularly regarding timing optimisation or flux behaviour, I would be interested to hear your insights.

As always, I prefer to rely on measurement and repeatable results.

Regards,
Lasco


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I never studied the Figuera device deeply.  I only scanned through this document once.

  Simplified block diagram of the Figuera device

current shaping using a segmented commutator
Yes, I noticed that the electromechanical commutator forms the variable resistance which changes very slowly by contemporary electronic standards.  Today the entire electromechanical commutator can be replaced by 8 MOSFETs and two 4017 with some diodes and resistors.

It would be interesting to see the modulated current waveform under resistive load displayed on the oscilloscope.  Do you know how to measure that ?

If anyone has experience with similar commutator-based systems, particularly regarding timing optimisation or flux behaviour, I would be interested to hear your insights.
Smudge and F6 come to mind here. ...and yours truly.
   

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Hi Verpies,

Please advise me on the correct way to measure everything, as I do not want to make mistakes.

I have had various results with the commutator, but there has always been some sparking between segments. I would certainly like to move to electronic switching in the future, but I have set myself one condition first: to replicate the original Figuera design as faithfully as possible. If that shows real potential, then yes, I would be very interested in replacing the mechanical commutator with electronic switching.

I have ordered a new 4-channel oscilloscope and two contactless current probes so that I can properly observe the waveforms. At present, the input current in the Figuera experiment passes through a 50 A / 100 mV shunt, which I intend to monitor on the oscilloscope. I will also monitor the loaded secondary AC output directly on the scope. This should allow me to observe all four channels simultaneously and compare the results properly. I will share the measurements once I have consistent data.

The primary coils currently have taps at approximately 74 turns, 150 turns, and 240 turns. For each of these configurations, the resistor requirements are different, as the inductance and time constant change accordingly. In past experiments using fixed resistors, I found that I had to locate a “sweet spot” by adjusting the commutator speed, which suggests that the timing between current rise/decay and segment contact duration is critical.

The large 300 W resistors (rheostats) are being used because the circuit requirements are still being adjusted to match the desired time constant. In the classical commutator arrangement, each segment is in contact with the resistor and coil for only about 2 ms. This makes the time constant very important for correct commutator operation and for shaping the current within that limited interval.


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I'd say it's a very good idea that you stick to the mechanical commutation. I worked for a company developing some unique motors/generators with some promising overunity prospects. Before moving there I visited about half a year earlier. I saw a motor which had desirable properties, then when I started doing some work there months later they were some ways into using solid state switching. Despite the theoretically sound basis for doing so - when the solid state version was complete it behaved in ways that weren't desirable and they had so many issues getting the motor to behave the same that as far as I know the solid state switching was abandoned when it was realised the messy mechanical contacts, with all their sparking and added input, did something the solid state switching wasn't able to match, or at least the engineer responsible for that particular project couldn't get it to work. The scope shots all made it look like it should have.
   

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I'd say it's a very good idea that you stick to the mechanical commutation.

Hi Polyrhhythm

That is a very interesting observation, and it aligns with what I am seeing in practice.

At this stage, I am deliberately staying with the mechanical commutator, even though I understand the advantages of solid-state switching. My goal is to first understand the behaviour of the system in its original form before attempting any modernisation.

Your comment about the mechanical contacts doing something that solid-state switching could not replicate is particularly relevant. I suspect that the commutator is not only switching current, but also introducing a natural form of overlap, transient behaviour, and possibly beneficial irregularities that are difficult to reproduce with clean electronic switching.

In my case, I am working with laminated cores (35SW250) with pole shoes, and I have been focusing on achieving consistent magnetic coupling and repeatable results in the air gap. The core geometry and material selection were done specifically to minimise losses and improve the response of the magnetic field at the relatively low operating frequency (around 25–50 Hz).

I have also implemented primary coils with multiple taps (approximately 74, 150, and 240 turns), and I have observed that each configuration requires different resistor values to achieve suitable current shaping. In earlier tests with fixed resistors, I had to find a “sweet spot” by adjusting the commutator speed, which suggests that the interaction between inductance, resistance, and segment timing is critical.

This reinforces the idea that the system behaviour is strongly dependent on timing and transient effects, which may explain why a straightforward solid-state replacement does not always produce the same results, even if the waveforms appear similar on the oscilloscope.

For now, I will continue with the mechanical approach and focus on obtaining reliable measurements before attempting any transition to electronic switching.

Regards,
Lasco


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Hi Verpies,

Please advise me on the correct way to measure everything, as I do not want to make mistakes.
What is the minimum and maximum resistance of that variable resistance ?
What are the inductances of your coils ?

   

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I'd say it's a very good idea that you stick to the mechanical commutation.
The only difference is the arcing.
If this is a unwanted side-effect then good riddance ...but if it is a beneficial effect (e.g. because of some LENR in the arc) then it is a keeper.
   

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The coil's inductance depends on which tap I'm measuring. I can measure that again if you wish to know exactly
Just the highest inductance tap is enough and turn-counts for the other taps.
   
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The only difference is the arcing.
If this is a unwanted side-effect then good riddance ...but if it is a beneficial effect (e.g. because of some LENR in the arc) then it is a keeper.

This is precisely where my thinking is, the arcing is contributing something significant.
   

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test
Coil turns 76.5 turns , 151 turns , 224 turns
R is 0.068 ohm , 0.152 ohm, 0.25 ohm 
Total induction no core across all turns is 1.49mH
Induction with core plus shoe is  9.25mH if the other core is placed 7 mm opposite, then induction is 10.23mH

Air core        151uH , 647uH, 1.53mH
core and shoe   1.1mH , 4.28mH, 9.2mH
oposing cores   1.23mH, 4.75mH, 10.2mH
R               0.06 ,  0.15,   0.25 ohm


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An arc discharge has negative dynamic resistance. However, it itself does not contain a OU.
 :)
« Last Edit: 2026-04-24, 15:57:00 by chief kolbacict »
   

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An arc discharge has negative dynamic resistance. However, it itself does not contain a OU.

Agreed


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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.
   
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An arc discharge has negative dynamic resistance. However, it itself does not contain a OU.

I also agree. I see if we do have overunity in a system it will be an emergent property of the system based on the interaction between multiple effects at once, not a singular arc as a gain mechanism.
   
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I also agree. I see if we do have overunity in a system it will be an emergent property of the system based on the interaction between multiple effects at once, not a singular arc as a gain mechanism.

Yes.  I believe you are correct.

An interesting output effect can be taken advantage of by making surrounding effects, causes, inputs, etc more efficient all which cause the resulting output to now become something to sit up and take notice of.
   
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