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Author Topic: Grenade coil type systems  (Read 21460 times)
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Why 2MHz ?
Why 22µH ?
What about the ITC & IWC, will you want to maximize them or minimize them ...and why ?

What type of windings do you plan to have on the Yoke ?

Damm, had typed a reply but logged out automaticaly.... post gone

The thing is.. probably I have a grenade fetish... I want to do a last radically change before giving up.
Its remarkable that a chunk wire of 37.5meter can be wound to a 2Mh, resonator.
   

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Its remarkable that a chunk wire of 37.5meter can be wound to a 2Mh, resonator.
That is ¼ wavelength of 2MHz in vacuum, but with the coil the inductance and ITC changes the propagation velocity.
« Last Edit: 2023-10-06, 14:21:48 by verpies »
   
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.
   
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That is ¼ wavelength of 2MHz in vacuum, but with the coil the inductance and ITC changes the propagation velocity.

I did measure that, cant recall it at the m9ment... what I do know is the propagation delay can be changed significantely by add8ng aluminium foil.
   

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...what I do know is the propagation delay can be changed significantely by add8ng aluminium foil.
Of course, conductive foil becomes a capacitor plate and adds ITC.
High εr insulation on the wires increases it, too.
Even the εr of the coil former/support influences it.
« Last Edit: 2023-09-28, 21:55:12 by verpies »
   
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Of course, conductive foil becomes a capacitor plate and adds ITC.

Can it be enough to come to a 90 degree phaseshift and synchronise the TC primairy pulsing to it?
   

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Can it be enough to come to a 90 degree phaseshift and synchronise the TC primairy pulsing to it?
Yes, it can create a quarter cycle delay just like any delay line.  What that delay needs to be is determined by the frequency.
...but why play with coils to delay EM waves when you have plenty of cheap coaxial cable nowadays?  The wave moves at almost half the speed in the coax and always longer pieces of coax can be used to create more delay.
   

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That one ?
Don't know link fails,

if you have a hair pin loop is cancels out voltage, Don smith statment. Oh and i think grenade and tesla have to be same frequency or multipal of it.
« Last Edit: 2023-09-28, 23:48:12 by AlienGrey »


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Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
   

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Don't know link fails,
No it doesn't. It is a valid link to a .jpg file.
Someone else please confirm this.
   
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Open for me and took screenshot attached below
   

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If that’s the picture all you will get is current no voltage, if you added another multiple of the tuned wave you would get some voltage

(the 2 windings cancel out)


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Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
   

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You need a better computer or less stuff hogging your memory.
   
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Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).

So how do we start from here?
   

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I think we should finish talking about your winding diagram, the idea of using delay lines to synchronize i & v and this document, which you have attached.

I'll start with the latter.
The paper starts by declaring a goal of synchronizing a standing wave resonance with LC resonance frequency.  I notice that this goal is ill-defined from the start because it is impossible to separately measure the ITC from the externally added capacitance, which affects the self-oscillation frequency of the winding by a different mechanisms. anyway.  Also, the document fails to consider the well-known fact that helical coils are frequency-dispersive elements, in which waves of different frequency move at different speeds (unlike in coaxial cables).

That said, I think that the goal of this paper should be revised to creating a coil that self-oscillates at only one frequency.  This is a worthy goal in itself and the paper demonstrates that it is possible by folding the wire upon itself and cleverly manipulating the ITC and the reflections from the unterminated end of the winding. 
That wire fold also leads us to engineer a coil that has the known grenade shape.

Of course that begs the question: What are such purely self-oscillating coils needed for ?
   

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That's an interesting document, but takes some time to digest all of it.
It does mention the same goal as Stalker did in one of his videos which is the "synchronizing a standing wave resonance with LC resonance frequency." (LC- and ¼ wave resonances match) in his Grenade coil.
 
"A coil that self-oscillates at only one frequency" could serve as a signal source and possibly used for cascading several to build up to produce any significant power?

Itsu
   

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It does mention the same goal as Stalker did in one of his videos which is the "synchronizing a standing wave resonance with LC resonance frequency." (LC- and ¼ wave resonances match) in his Grenade coil.
The problem with this statement is that the lumped model of LC resonance is irrelevant at wavelengths approaching the length of the coil. This is because in this lumped model, the current is analytically presupposed to be uniformly distributed along the wire of the coil  (see this). 
The standard wave reflections still happen in such coils but they do not happen isotropically at speeds determined by the permeability and permittivity of empty space but anisotropically at the speeds determined by permittivity of the wire insulation and the coil-former and permeability of the turns.

NOTE: The speed of light in empty space is c=1/√(ε0μ0)
where:
ε0 is the permittivity of empty space.
μ0 is the permeability of empty space.

Reflections happen at any boundary where the impedance changes. Impedance is also determined by ε and μ.
Multiple winding layers or multiple windings with multiple spacings complicate the matter further.

"A coil that self-oscillates at only one frequency" could serve as a signal source and possibly used for cascading several to build up to produce any significant power?
It certainly would be useful for construction of narrowband filters and tuned transformers and for the application of single-frequency magnetic fields to objects inside the coil, as well as reception of a particular frequency of the magnetic field.

However the narrow bandedness of the coil says nothing about its quality (how much energy it loses per 1 cycle of oscillation).  From the scopeshots in that paper it is apparent that the single-frequency oscillations in the optimized coil still decay rapidly, so its Q is low. Thus alone, such coils cannot be a source of any energy gain.
   

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Buy me a cigar
Morning Guys.

FYI the Grenade coil seen in the 2 KW aquarium Kapanadse video was wound with Blue insulation Coaxial cable. I can provide photographic evidence if required.

Cheers Grum.

PS. Please remove post if considered irrelevant.


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   

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FYI the Grenade coil seen in the 2 KW aquarium Kapanadse video was wound with Blue insulation Coaxial cable. I can provide photographic evidence if required.
PS. Please remove post if considered irrelevant.
Windings made with coaxial cable are very relevant because it is one of the techniques to combat ITC and the magnetic field distortions that it creates as well as the reverberations at multiple frequencies which are the scourge of helical coils.

So, yes by all means provide the photographic evidence.
   

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You need a better computer or less stuff hogging your memory.
Hmm I don't think so it's only that link that’s playing up , are you running win 11
did you erase all the spy and cloud monitoring if not we could be in danger.

Sil




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Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
   
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Windings made with coaxial cable are very relevant because it is one of the techniques to combat ITC and the magnetic field distortions that it creates as well as the reverberations at multiple frequencies which are the scourge of helical coils.

So, yes by all means provide the photographic evidence.

Is it an idea to start with a coax coil as a test example for your proposed bucking coil idea?
In order to get more specific information?
   

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The problem with this statement is that the lumped model of LC resonance is irrelevant at wavelengths approaching the length of the coil. This is because in this lumped model, the current is analytically presupposed to be uniformly distributed along the wire of the coil  (see this). 
The standard wave reflections still happen in such coils but they do not happen isotropically at speeds determined by the permeability and permittivity of empty space but anisotropically at the speeds determined by permittivity of the wire insulation and the coil-former and permeability of the turns.

NOTE: The speed of light in empty space is c=1/√(ε0μ0)
where:
ε0 is the permittivity of empty space.
μ0 is the permeability of empty space.

Reflections happen at any boundary where the impedance changes. Impedance is also determined by ε and μ.
Multiple winding layers or multiple windings with multiple spacings complicate the matter further.
It certainly would be useful for construction of narrowband filters and tuned transformers and for the application of single-frequency magnetic fields to objects inside the coil, as well as reception of a particular frequency of the magnetic field.

However the narrow bandedness of the coil says nothing about its quality (how much energy it loses per 1 cycle of oscillation).  From the scopeshots in that paper it is apparent that the single-frequency oscillations in the optimized coil still decay rapidly, so its Q is low. Thus alone, such coils cannot be a source of any energy gain.


In the old Ruslan thread where Vasik supplied a lot of info ( https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg82534#msg82534 ) there was a calculator to calculate the LC resonance AND the Standing wave resonance in a single layer coil:  http://gorchilin.com/calculator/reactor?lang=en  see some discussions in that thread about this calculator: 
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90605#msg90605

Could this calculator be of any use here?

Itsu
   

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Hmm I don't think so it's only that link that’s playing up ,
No, read your error message again. The out of memory error is there in plain sight.
Also, Chet and dozen others had no problems opening that file so the problem is unique to your computer.

are you running win 11
No, I don't touch that spyware.

did you erase all the spy and cloud monitoring if not we could be in danger.
I never installed it.
   

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Is it an idea to start with a coax coil as a test example for your proposed bucking coil idea?
In order to get more specific information?
It might be a good idea to learn more about transformers wound with coax first.

I would like to read some insights about them from any EE types here like (but not limited to) F6FLT, Guyla, partzman, picowatt and that guy who was helping Itsu once with the RF amplifier, as these types of transformers seem to be frequently used in such amplifiers.

There is something not right with my understanding of these coax transformers.
How can a pulse enclosed in a coaxial cable, which is additionally inserted in a solid copper tube, get out and affect anything outside it ?  See:
https://youtu.be/Na34jh1HqfQ
... and the Dally setup also demonstrated interaction outside of a shorted coax.

P.S.
I think I bothered him once to put the terminating resistor inside a conductive box but I don't remember that it made a difference.
   

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Could this calculator be of any use here?
Sure, I would like to be able to build cleanly self-resonating coils without trial & error.  It seem like a must-have skill.
Does this calculator work, despite being based on the wrong premise of an infinite propagation speed assumed in the lumped component LC resonance ?
« Last Edit: 2023-10-03, 11:28:26 by verpies »
   
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There is something not right with my understanding of these coax transformers.
How can a pulse enclosed in a coaxial cable, which is additionally inserted in a solid copper tube, get out and affect anything outside it ?  See:
https://youtu.be/Na34jh1HqfQ

Thats a good point.
To get good understanding and make this work in our favor this " effect" needs to be classified. The question that comes next is could it be electrostatic as you indicated inductive related would not pass the copper tube.



   
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