I Got a Speedup Effect..

It's obvious that posting personal viewpoints that one thinks are worthy of investigating is discouraged in this forum. If it's not F6, it's Verpies.

Pointing out errors should not be discouraging to a scientist.
Post any viewpoint you want but be prepared to support it empirically or theoretically or logically.

Start my own thread showing Lenz can be used to do work while inducing output- Verpies jumps in and shuts it down.

I have done no such thing. The thread is still up. I participated in it as a contributing scientist, not as a moderator.
I never told you (or anyone else) "don't do this experiment". I just tried to teach you how induction really works. Not only with words but with equations, animations and diagrams.

Determines it's NOT worthy of investigation. Nothing to see here- move along..

Now you are just putting words in my mouth. Show me a quote.

Reply to a thread that was discussing virtual rotation- Get the third degree because I don't agree with his theory that drag is not the "right term" because he believes a superconducting coil does not induce from flux cutting.

If I was the only scientist in the world that thought that you might have a point calling it my belief, but this is not my theory - this is a mainstream theory and practiced fact that has been proven with many experiments.
Go ask a physics professor or AI if you like. e.g.: is this graph true ?:

My mortifying observation is that you don't even know where your devices are on this graph.

Get the third degree because I don't agree with his theory that drag is not the "right term"
And people don't understand why the forums are mostly crickets?

What you call a "third-degree" is a typical manner of scientific discourse supported by math and diagrams. You might not be used to it, that's all.

...that drag is not the "right term"

"Drag" is the right term for resistive coils. Just not "Lenz Drag"

Let me post a reminder, most people seeking free energy believe the mainstream understandings and laws are incomplete at best or maybe have undisclosed exceptions.

I think so too but not to the degree that I would throw the baby out with the bath water.
I have done all of these experiments in my student years and I remember how stuff works. I had Niobium superconducting coils in my hands (LH cooled), I don't forget how they behave.

To continually shut down exploration and alternative theories is in opposition to the point of these forums IMHO.

Why do you keep using these misleading words ? Shut down, shut down...
No thread has been shut down and I never said to anyone don't do an experiment. I just try to teach people how things really work.
If correcting your misconceptions hurts so much and you haven't learned to appreciate a knowledgeable critic then you are in the wrong field.

Quote from: Verpies on 2025-12-04, 03:53:52

A moderators job is not to "Correct all proposed viewpoints and theories" so they conform to the moderators viewpoints and beliefs..

I participate in these forums more as a scientist than a moderator. The last 20 posts in this thread clearly illustrate that. However, I will move this post and others like it (posts that have no technical content), to another public thread that is better suited for it, but I will not delete them.

What do you expect ? Ignorant "yes"-men who nod to everything you write ?
There is no "Lenz Drag" but there is "Ohm's Drag" or "Resistance Drag". By using the wrong words you are promulgating wrong concepts and entrenching misconceptions that are harmful to scientific progress and especially to newbies. I am open to continuing this discussion if you are still not convinced.

All I offer is the truth - nothing more.
You can ignore what I have to offer but Physics will not ignore you.

floodrod

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #85 on: 2025-12-04, 10:56:27 »

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Post any viewpoint you want but be prepared to support it empirically or theoretically or logically.
You can ignore what I have to offer but Physics will not ignore you.
I participate in these forums more as a scientist than a moderator.

The bar is VERY High to post here. You can explore, but if you share, be prepared to "support it empirically" and scrutinized by the community "Scientist" who will determine if your idea aligns with "Physics".

Quote from: Verpies on 2025-12-04, 03:53:52

Why do you keep using these misleading words ? Shut down
What do you expect ? Ignorant "yes"-men who nod to everything you write ?
I have done no such thing. The thread is still up. I participated in it as a contributing scientist, not as a moderator.
I just tried to teach you how induction really works.

There are many exploratory minds that saw an interesting effect in my project and also think it warrants further exploration. But apparently this is no longer a place for fringe ideas, but is a place for scientific scrutiny. Anyone who may have the desire to post or show interest must weigh the reprucussions of pubically showing interest. Because the community scientist will surely be teaching you how induction really works.

Quote from: Verpies on 2025-12-04, 03:53:52

If I was the only scientist in the world that thought that you might have a point calling it my belief, but this is not my theory - this is a mainstream theory and practiced fact that has been proven with many experiments.

You also MUST usee the accepted terms the community scientist declares correct or be prepared to be scrutinized and be prepared to defend the terms you use.
Apparently Drag is not a reprocussion of Lenzes law where induced EMF opposes the magnetic change that induced it.
I don't have the time to keep going ATM, but I get your drift. I can present my thoughts and ideas, but be prepared to be taught and corrected how things really work by the community scientist.

So let me add this so we are clear.

I am not looking to be educated by Scientists. I am not submitting my theories, works and ideas to a scientific journal to be scrutinized by scientisits. I care less about what scientists think. I OFTEN present fringe theories and angles that are dismissed by Scientists.

To The Contrary; the I am a "Fringe" explorer who questions the scientific model. I purposely avoid learning the scientific explainations. I HAVE contemplated and tested many theories that turn out to be erronous during my many thousands of hours of testing concepts. Sure a Scientist could have just told me I am wrong and saved me the time, but there just MAY be that one time where the Scientist was in error and the answer was missed.

« Last Edit: 2025-12-04, 12:13:58 by floodrod »

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Jim Mac - Owner of Mooker.Com Opensource Free Energy Forum

Verpies

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #86 on: 2025-12-04, 12:10:21 »

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You also MUST usee the accepted terms the community scientist declares correct or be prepared to be scrutinized and be prepared to defend the terms you use.

Yes be prepared to defend the veracity of your statements. This is the scientific method.
Ii is not as much about the exact words you use, but the about the concepts that they represent or misrepresent.
If these concepts do not agree with the empirical body of knowledge or logically conflict with your other statements then they must be challenged lest they are allowed to impede scientific progress, ingrain misconceptions ...especially for newbies.

Apparently Drag is not a repercussion of Lenzes law...

That's right.
The mechanical drag (which is a net integral of the attractive and repulsive forces) that a non-ideal coil manifests is caused by the resistive and hysteresis energy dissipations. When these factors are eliminated with an ideal coil, then the pure Lenz Effect remains. This effect alone does not cause any drag.

I am not discouraging you from performing experiments that may refute this.

...where induced EMF opposes the magnetic change that induced it.

See, this is an example of using incorrect words that communicate incorrect concepts that hinder scientific progress.
I write this because induced EMF is incapable of opposing magnetic changes directly. Only current can do that by the virtue of generating an opposing magnetic flux. The presence of EMF does not mean the presence of current. Your words appear to conflate the two. This sows confusion...especially in the inexperienced members.

As a side note: An EMF can be measured only across resistance (open circuit is also a resistance, albeit very high). It is impossible to measure EMF in an ideal shorted coil - even in theory. The current flowing in a coil always causes the generation of magnetic flux. EMF does not. Because of this unwavering relationship, the current can always be calculated from the flux by dividing it by the inductance of the coil, since L=Φ/i
EMF cannot be derived from the flux. It can be derived from the rate of change of flux but only in non-ideal coil circuits, i.e.: across a resistance.

Quote from: Verpies on 2025-12-04, 12:41:13

I don't have the time to keep going ATM, but I get your drift. I can present my thoughts and ideas, but be prepared to be taught and corrected how things really work by the community scientist.

Yes and there is nothing wrong with learning and correcting one's own misconceptions.
If I don't correct your misconceptions then Physics will.

If you don't like my input, ask someone else who is knowledgeable ...or ask AI.
Below is a non-leading question that you can paste directly into any AI:

Quote

An immovable shorted ideal loop without resistance is in an environment where the magnetic flux density is zero. The current flowing in the loop is zero. The plane of the loop is horizontal in a gravitational field. Suddenly a change is made and a permanent magnet is dropped into the loop. The magnet's OD is smaller than the loop's ID and the magnet is sufficiently heavy to penetrate the loop. Calculate the function of the force vs. vertical distance F(x) where positive values of F(x) indicate an upward force between the magnet and the loop and negative values of F(x) indicate a downward force. Gravity always generates a constant downward force (so negative). Generate a linear SVG plot of F(x) if you can. Describe the direction of forces between the magnet and the loop, before, during and after exiting the loop. Describe the kinetic energy evolution of the magnet, before, during and after exiting the loop. Compare the kinetic energy of the magnet to a situation in which the loop is completely absent. Especially long after exiting the loop.

floodrod

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #87 on: 2025-12-04, 12:38:35 »

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As you recommend- Here is "MY QUESTION" to AI: be exact

Question- "Is the mechanical "Drag" a generator experiences during induction directly caused by Lenz's Law of the magnetic fields between the output and rotor opposing motion?"

Answer- "Yes, the mechanical "drag" or counter-torque a generator experiences during induction is a direct consequence of Lenz's Law and the resulting opposing magnetic forces.

🧭 The Role of Lenz's Law
Lenz's Law is a fundamental principle of electromagnetism and is also a statement of the conservation of energy"

Let me guess- You think my question was worded in a way to provoke than answer.

YES I said "EMF" instead of "EM Field" erronously. So apparently I need to be educated on textbook acronyms. (Which I care NOTHING about).

Maybe the Slogan of this site should Change from "Forum for Free Energy Researchers"

to

"A Place Where Your Statements and Theories must be challenged lest they are allowed to impede scientific progress, ingrain misconceptions

This Mindset Directly Excludes Sharing "Fringe" Theories and Viewpoints.

I Got a Speedup Effect..

gem proof.JPG (39.85 kB, 895x375 - viewed 211 times.)

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Jim Mac - Owner of Mooker.Com Opensource Free Energy Forum

Verpies	Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #88 on: 2025-12-04, 12:41:13 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4577	Quote from: floodrod on 2025-12-04, 10:56:27 I am not looking to be educated by Scientists. Then who are you looking to be educated by ?

floodrod

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #89 on: 2025-12-04, 13:01:49 »

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Then who are you looking to be educated by ?

Surely you understand the difference between trying to learn how a clutch works verses seeking Free Energy.

If I want to learn how a Clutch works, I ask a Mechanic because he mastered the task.

If I seek Free Energy, Scientists have not mastered the task, so I seek alternative viewpoints.

---------------------------

Jim Mac - Owner of Mooker.Com Opensource Free Energy Forum

Itsu

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #90 on: 2025-12-04, 15:02:31 »

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Posts: 4706

Stop wining man, jeez.

Verpies is only trying to help you to put your "thoughts and idea" in line with "how things really work" so you don't keep on making wrong U-turns due to misunderstandings.

You should be grateful he takes the time trying to help you to reach the goal you are pursuing all this time, apparently without any real success up till now.

Absorb the given info, apply it to your "thoughts and ideas" and benefit from it, it's free!

Itsu

floodrod

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #91 on: 2025-12-04, 16:06:00 »

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Posts: 135

Quote from: Itsu on 2025-12-04, 15:02:31

Absorb the given info, apply it to your "thoughts and ideas" and benefit from it, it's free!

Itsu

Please clarify if you agree with the notion I am being told to absorb.. ---> "Drag is not a repercussion of Lenzes law"..

Floodrod; "Apparently Drag is not a repercussion of Lenzes law...

Verpies: That's right.
The mechanical drag (which is a net integral of the attractive and repulsive forces) that a non-ideal coil manifests is caused by the resistive and hysteresis energy dissipations. When these factors are eliminated with an ideal coil, then the pure Lenz Effect remains. This effect alone does not cause any drag."

Paste those statements into Gemini AI. I have attached small snips of each response unpersuaded as-is. Look at the responses....

I continually hinted that I am not in agreement with his views or teachings. Enough is Enough.

I Got a Speedup Effect..

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I Got a Speedup Effect..

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Jim Mac - Owner of Mooker.Com Opensource Free Energy Forum

Verpies

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #92 on: 2025-12-04, 16:14:53 »

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Quote from: floodrod on 2025-12-04, 12:38:35

As you recommend- Here is "MY QUESTION" to AI: be exact
Question- "Is the mechanical "Drag" a generator experiences during induction directly caused by Lenz's Law of the magnetic fields between the output and rotor opposing motion?"
Answer- "Yes, the mechanical "drag" or counter-torque a generator experiences during induction is a direct consequence of Lenz's Law and the resulting opposing magnetic forces.
Lenz's Law is a fundamental principle of electromagnetism and is also a statement of the conservation of energy"

You have not asked my non-leading question which I have posted at the end of this post.

Also, you have not asked about drag due to pure Lenz Effect. You asked for Lenz Effect mixed with Resistive Joule heating and Hysteresis Losses.
I asked the Grok AI a more precise question involving pure uncontaminated Lenz Effect and Grok initially replied that the magnet is repelled on approach and attracted on departure just like you and floodrod were claiming all along. Here is a link to my conversation with Grok 4.1 in the "Expert" mode.

What AI did you use ?

Verpies

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #93 on: 2025-12-04, 16:26:39 »

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Posts: 4577

Quote from: floodrod on 2025-12-04, 16:06:00

Paste those statements into Gemini AI. I have attached small snips of each response unpersuaded as-is. Look at the responses....

You asked about the pure Lenz Effect. I appreciate that.

You did not push the AI for precise answers, though.
I wish you had posted my non-leading question that I posted at the end of this post.

@All
Could someone lend me an access to the full version of Gemini so I can have more detailed conversation with it about this issue ?
I have only Grok and Claude...

floodrod

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #94 on: 2025-12-04, 16:50:42 »

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Posts: 135

Quote from: Verpies on 2025-12-04, 16:14:53

You have not asked my non-leading question which I have posted at the end of this post.

Also, you have not asked about drag due to pure Lenz Effect. You asked for Lenz Effect mixed with Resistive Joule heating and Hysteresis Losses.
I asked the Grok AI a more precise question involving pure uncontaminated Lenz Effect and Grok initially replied that the magnet is repelled on approach and attracted on departure just like you and floodrod were saying all along. Here is a link to my conversation with Grok 4.1 in the "Expert" mode.

What AI did you use ?

I can only use Gemini or Copilot due to security propocols at this location. Later tonight (at home) I can use anything.

Obviously we are referencing 2 different setups. You are defending something about dropping a magnet into an "Ideal" coil loop which is TOTALLY different than sweeping the face of standard coils with a magnet. Our debate started from my comment on Lenz drag from a rotating field.. Rotating fields do not drop magnets through superconducting coils. And I have no idea why the convorsation ended up on dropping magnets through freezing cold coils at all. I don't think ANY of my replies were in reference to a magnet dropping through a coil. My replies were all directed at sweeping past the face of a coil. And really, I will probably never work with Ideal Coils.

My original claim was (and still is) "The braking effect from sweeping a magnet past the face of a coil is caused because of Lenz's Law".

I see no need to correct the above statement. Paste that exact statement into ANY AI and the answers will probably be the same. But start changing the terms by asking it about Magnets dropping magnets through "Ideal Coils" with zero flux density, etc, etc, etc, and I have no idea what AI will spit out.

It does not really matter what AI says will happen with nitrogen cooled super-conducting coils or whatever- because I will probably NEVER drop magnets through Superconducting coils.. My builds will probably ALL use standard coils, magnetic fields, and resistive loads.

---------------------------

Jim Mac - Owner of Mooker.Com Opensource Free Energy Forum

Magluvin

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #95 on: 2025-12-04, 17:10:08 »

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Posts: 1132

if the magnets field never cuts the super coil, then how is it that the supper coil repels it in the first place? preexisting opposing field?

what is the binder between the moving magnet and the super coil that causes the effect? if we pass iron by the coil, will there be any effects similar to the magnet pass? there must be some interaction.

now, it is said that drag is due to resistance and is not drag when there is no resistance. if we have a copper coil, short it with a current meter, the coil dimentions are say 4in dia, 2 in inner dia, and a 1in magnet on a rotor for passing the coil face. as the magnet approaches the coil, current will be induced in one direction, producing a repelling field, opposite that of the magnet, causing slowdown of the rotor. then tdc, no current in the winding, then magnet passing the second half of the coil induces currents in the opposite direction in the coil where the coils field is said to be attracted to the magnet, slowing down the rotor once more until it passes.

so now we have a supper coil of the same dimentions, with a super current meter to measure the current. when the magnet approaches the coil, will there be any current read on that meter? if so, then after tdc, the magnet passes the other side of the coils face, will there be any current read by that meter? will that current be in the opposite direction on the meter? if so, then the magnet will be dragged down throughout the pass, same as the copper. granted the magnet passing the super coil will need to be spaced to a point where it doesnt just stop.

so, in the super coil, when the magnet approaches, is there a preexisting opposing field in the super coil to repell the magnet? or does the magnet induce the coil to produce that opposing field?? if you say the magnets flux never gets to cut the coil, then how is that opposing field produced? if you say that once the current in the coil is produced, and that current continues on forever, is it stick in that condition? forever and cannot be changed unless the winding is cut open?

will continue once that is addressed...

mags

Magluvin

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #96 on: 2025-12-04, 17:13:31 »

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Posts: 1132

Quote from: Magluvin on 2025-12-04, 17:10:08

I can only use Gemini or Copilot due to security propocols at this location. Later tonight (at home) I can use anything.

Obviously we are referencing 2 different setups. You are defending something about dropping a magnet into an "Ideal" coil loop which is TOTALLY different than sweeping the face of standard coils with a magnet. Our debate started from my comment on Lenz drag from a rotating field.. Rotating fields do not drop magnets through superconducting coils. And I have no idea why the convorsation ended up on dropping magnets through freezing cold coils at all. I don't think ANY of my replies were in reference to a magnet dropping through a coil. My replies were all directed at sweeping past the face of a coil. And really, I will probably never work with Ideal Coils.

My original claim was (and still is) "The braking effect from sweeping a magnet past the face of a coil is caused because of Lenz's Law".

I see no need to correct the above statement. Paste that exact statement into ANY AI and the answers will probably be the same. But start changing the terms by asking it about Magnets dropping magnets through "Ideal Coils" with zero flux density, etc, etc, etc, and I have no idea what AI will spit out.

It does not really matter what AI says will happen with nitrogen cooled super-conducting coils or whatever- because I will probably NEVER drop magnets through Superconducting coils.. My builds will probably ALL use standard coils, magnetic fields, and resistive loads.

i agree. the ideal concepts are not in place on anyones bench here. drag is a fine word to use here in the real world.

mags

floodrod

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #97 on: 2025-12-04, 17:32:34 »

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if the magnets field never cuts the super coil, then how is it that the supper coil repels it in the first place? preexisting opposing field?

what is the binder between the moving magnet and the super coil that causes the effect? if we pass iron by the coil, will there be any effects similar to the magnet pass? there must be some interaction.

now, it is said that drag is due to resistance and is not drag when there is no resistance. if we have a copper coil, short it with a current meter, the coil dimentions are say 4in dia, 2 in inner dia, and a 1in magnet on a rotor for passing the coil face. as the magnet approaches the coil, current will be induced in one direction, producing a repelling field, opposite that of the magnet, causing slowdown of the rotor. then tdc, no current in the winding, then magnet passing the second half of the coil induces currents in the opposite direction in the coil where the coils field is said to be attracted to the magnet, slowing down the rotor once more until it passes.

so now we have a supper coil of the same dimentions, with a super current meter to measure the current. when the magnet approaches the coil, will there be any current read on that meter? if so, then after tdc, the magnet passes the other side of the coils face, will there be any current read by that meter? will that current be in the opposite direction on the meter? if so, then the magnet will be dragged down throughout the pass, same as the copper. granted the magnet passing the super coil will need to be spaced to a point where it doesnt just stop.

so, in the super coil, when the magnet approaches, is there a preexisting opposing field in the super coil to repell the magnet? or does the magnet induce the coil to produce that opposing field?? if you say the magnets flux never gets to cut the coil, then how is that opposing field produced? if you say that once the current in the coil is produced, and that current continues on forever, is it stick in that condition? forever and cannot be changed unless the winding is cut open?

will continue once that is addressed...

mags

Good questions, I concur with the magnetic / induction events you have elegantly outlined as a magnet passes a coil. And I look forward to the response also.

If there is a hidden event I am missing, it would require a step by step explaination (as you outlined) that would make it clear to me.

---------------------------

Jim Mac - Owner of Mooker.Com Opensource Free Energy Forum

Verpies

Re: I Got a Speedup Effect.. « Reply #98 on: 2025-12-04, 17:32:49 »

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Obviously we are referencing 2 different setups. You are defending something about dropping a magnet into an "Ideal" coil loop which is TOTALLY different than sweeping the face of standard coils with a magnet.

It is true that the the setups are different but not fundamentally (and not totally).

Resistive coils exhibit drag - ideal ones do not.
However this transition is not abrupt.

If you look at the graph below and at the formula for the peak on that graph, you will notice that below some critical resistance the setup starts gradually behaving more and more like an ideal coil. Thus it should never surprise you that shorting your coils reduces the drag.
You should always calculate where your devices place themselves on that graph using the simple formula 2*π*f*L (with f adjusted by the duty cycle).

The takeaway from all this is that decreasing resistance and increasing frequency (speed) and inductance puts your setup in a different operating regime.
...and because the resistance of a coil varies linearly with the number of turns yet its inductance varies with the square of the number of turns, then it pays off to have many turns as that maximizes the L/R ratio.

Our debate started from my comment on Lenz drag from a rotating field.. Rotating fields do not drop magnets through superconducting coils.

Rotating fields are interesting because the unipolar ones accelerate charged particles like a Lorentz fan. They deserve their own thread.

And I have no idea why the convorsation ended up on dropping magnets through freezing cold coils at all. I don't think ANY of my replies were in reference to a magnet dropping through a coil. My replies were all directed at sweeping past the face of a coil.

Because it is the simplest setup to analyze. Sweeping a magnet instead of threading it does not make a difference in the response of the coil.
I have updated my conversation with Grok to include swept magnets but it did not change anything.

And really, I will probably never work with Ideal Coils.

You don't have to. There is another method to approach the superconducting behavior. I outlined it above ...and before.

But start changing the terms by asking it about Magnets dropping magnets through "Ideal Coils" with zero flux density, etc, etc, etc, and I have no idea what AI will spit out.

You would have an idea what it will spit out if you had read my conversation with AI about this issue.

It does not really matter what AI says will happen with nitrogen cooled super-conducting coils or whatever- because I will probably NEVER drop magnets through Superconducting coils.. My builds will probably ALL use standard coils, magnetic fields, and resistive loads.

It matters because in the beginning of this post (...and earlier) I have described to you how to approach that superconducting behavior with resistive coils.