Need New Oscilloscope -- Recommendations

[feynman]

Hi guys,

I have an old vintage Tektronix 453 analog scope, which I'm quite fond of,  but I want to get a new scope.   The reasons :

1) I'm very attached to my Tektronix scope, and I'm afraid of damaging it with experimental HV research.
2) I don't have a second probe for the Tektronix , so I can't do 2-channel stuff.
3) It's calibration is a bit off.
4) No computer interface.


So can people make suggestions for scopes in the :

$0-500 price range
$500 - 1000 price range
and
$1000 - 3000 price range


I don't mind if it has a computer interface and no display.   I'm thinking either something along these lines:

Hantek DSO-2090

http://www.bonanza.com/booths/emtesco01/items/Hantek_DSO_2090_40_MHz_2_Ch_100_MSa_s___FFT_Digital_USB_Scop
$179.00

or perhaps  one of these:
OWON HDS-N or PDS Series


http://www.owon.com.cn/eng/hds-n.asp
$593.00


http://www.tequipment.net/OWONPDS6062.html
$712.50

Any comments?

[poynt99]

Instek

200MHz, 2-CH. $1500.



.99

[feynman]

Thanks poynt, that one looks pretty good.  It's tempting to spend the extra $300 and get the 4-channel scope GDS-2204 for  around $1700. 

I think I'll probably buy the cheap $170 one to get started, then I'll probably pick up one of the ones you've referenced.

[unimmortal]

Resurrecting an old thread....

Has anyone got anything good to say about the PicoScope 2204A? https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/oscilloscopes/7933654

Any other quality entry level recommendations I should look at?

TIA

[lfarrand]

The Rigol DHO800 series are very good and reasonably priced at AliExpress.

[Paul-R]

Resurrecting an old thread....

Has anyone got anything good to say about the PicoScope 2204A? https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/oscilloscopes/7933654

Any other quality entry level recommendations I should look at?

TIA

I would have thought that you can do much better than 10mhz for that money. But it depends what you are using it for. If you have a rotating device and studying input and output signals, you might find that Winscope will suffice. (But bad use can blow your sound card).

[unimmortal]

I would have thought that you can do much better than 10mhz for that money. But it depends what you are using it for. If you have a rotating device and studying input and output signals, you might find that Winscope will suffice. (But bad use can blow your sound card).

Looking about and most scopes are north of AU$700 Rigol DHO802 is the cheapest all-in-one I've found.

[picowatt]

Looking about and most scopes are north of AU$700 Rigol DHO802 is the cheapest all-in-one I've found.

I'd go with the 4 channel versions.  I do not believe these scopes have an ext trigger input, so you'll have to use one channel for that if you need ext trigger.

DHO804 (70MHz) is currently $399US on Amazon...
DHO814 (100MHz) is $499

I don't know what the BW upgrade costs if you buy it later, or if anyone has cracked these yet.

Seems hard to beat.  Anyone here have any experience with these yet?

PW

[unimmortal]

I'd go with the 4 channel versions.  I do not believe these scopes have an ext trigger input, so you'll have to use one channel for that if you need ext trigger.

DHO804 (70MHz) is currently $399US on Amazon...
DHO814 (100MHz) is $499

I don't know what the BW upgrade costs if you buy it later, or if anyone has cracked these yet.

Seems hard to beat.  Anyone here have any experience with these yet?

PW

Welcome to Australia, where you pay double... DHO804 (70MHz) $823.90 AUD, inc GST here

Amazon aren't selling us either the DHO804 or DHO814

Thanks for the tip on getting 4 channels.

[lfarrand]

The DHO800/900 series have been hacked and you can upgrade BW. There's a thread on the EEV Blog forum with all the details.

I would also recommend getting a 4 channel version for the convenience. My experience is that you will often want to measure more than 2 things at once. The 2 channel versions do have an additional EXT trigger input, so you don't have to go down to 1 channel if you want to use that. With the 4 channel versions you do lose one of those if you want to use an EXT trigger.

I bought the 924S from AliExpress last month and I think it's great. It's very portable and slimline, so I now have it sat on my office desk where space is at a premium. Having it on hand rather than in the garage makes it more convenient to use, especially now winter has set in here in the UK.

They are also powered from USB-C so are inherently isolated from the mains.

[chief kolbacict]

You really think that great oscilloscope would help to create perpetuum mobile ?

[lfarrand]

You really think that great oscilloscope would help to create perpetuum mobile ?

Maybe, maybe not, but at the very least it makes a nice desk ornament

[Paul-R]

You really think that great oscilloscope would help to create perpetuum mobile ?

People need to work out what quality is needed. There's no point in spending for a capability that will not be required. The extra cash can be better spent elsewhere.

[Allcanadian]

lfarrand

I found the Rigol 1054Z was a good DSO at $400.

It's a 50Mhz, 4 channel DSO and I have had no problems with it. It also has math functions for power measurement (V x I) which I use quite often. I would recommend at least one set of higher voltage probes and I mine are 1200v.

We can also measure very HV fields from a distance. One open probe measures the electric field potential at that point in space relative to ground. The difference in potential between two open probes 1cm apart can tell us the E field strength in V/cm. This is where math between channels is really useful. Meaningful comparisons between things helps us learn new things faster.

In my opinion a good DSO is mandatory in FE research for several reasons...
1)A 4 channel DSO can measure power in vs out. Input is (CH1 V x CH2 I) and output CH3 V x CH4 I). Now we can analyze the CH 1-2 power trace versus the CH 3-4 trace and the phase/delay between them.

2)My favorite is CH1 V x CH2 I giving us a power trace, CH3 using a hall effect magnetic field sensor and CH4 an electrometer E field sensor. Now we have the whole gambit, Voltage, Current, Power, external B field and E field.

3)I also use an analog multiplexer to expand my DSO channels to 16 or mix/match as needed. I use a esp8266 to handle the multiplexer channel switching. So if we need 4 channels on input(V,I,B,E) and 4 channels on output(V,I,B,E) it's not an issue. Keep in mind there could be ground path issues and frequency limitations related to the multiplexer.

On free energy, it's not that difficult if we know what to look for. The problem is most people are not thinking logically and methodically using first principals.
I always approach a problem methodically using conventional theory/measurements then dig deeper as I go. For example, some have spent decades researching but still have no idea that the voltage and current in a coil can appear normal but the external magnetic field density has changed. They don't know this because they never actually measured the external magnetic field relative to the input under different circumstances. They get lazy and start making assumptions rather than take the time to do real science.

As such I have found FE research is not so much about the best accuracy but taking as many different measurements under different circumstances as we can manage. Think of it this way, were trying to learn something "new". If we have not learned something "new" then we cannot do something "new". As such the same old thing does not cut it, that's for amateurs, not persons wanting to make real progress.

AC

[unimmortal]

AllCanadian - Thanks for the input, lots of good points and pointers 

Once my new multimeter turns up I'll have much more accurate data to justify buying a scope 

[chief kolbacict]

This wouldn't help you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX0MJjq9MuU&t=265s&pp=ygUXZWV2YmxvZyBkdW1wc3RlciBkaXZpbmc%3D

Maybe, maybe not, but at the very least it makes a nice desk ornament

You think that I don't wish? I also it desire.

[e2matrix]

Not sure of the quality but I'll bet this is a good price $191 with free shipping for Hanmatk 110 MHz, 1G/s real time sampling :

https://www.temu.com/1pc-hanmatek-dos1102-digital-oscilloscope-4330-71inch-dual-channel-simultaneous-sampling-oscilloscope-7-inch-tft-display-g-601099527315859.html

And if you aren't familian with Temu you may want to take a look - fastest shipping you'll ever see from China and prices that can drop your jaw 

$6.88 for a decent looking Multimeter with that Fluke meter style case : https://www.temu.com/1pc-aneng-an8205c-digital-multimeter-auto-range-backlight-ac-dc-ammeter-volt-ohm-tester-portable-meter-multimeter-with-thermocouple-g-601099512427145.html

Has volts, Amps, Ohms, Temperature, diode, transistor ....

[Allcanadian]

Another reason to buy a DSO is psychology...

We are not computers we are conscious beings. As such we can talk fancy terms, equations and numbers all day long but nothing really registers. However draw a picture and even very complex problems can become easy. This is because evolution has taught us to think visually often called visual thinking or spacial learning. So a picture really is worth a thousand words.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/rethinking-thought/201602/new-look-visual-thinking
Albert Einstein, Viktor Schauberger and Nikola Tesla were visual thinkers building a image of the concept in their mind first then building on what they imagined. Being able to "see" how everything works down to the particle/field level seems kind of helpful in avoiding common mistakes.

So numbers on a DMM and math/equations mean nothing to me, it's pointless, however show me a picture or graphical representation and I can nail a process down no problem. Coincidentally, it's theorized that advanced ancient civilizations and supposed beings from other planets don't use math. They use pictures and symbols to represent concepts. It begs the question, why use foreign or non-universal concepts to try to explain something when we could just use pictures everyone understands?.

AC

[forest]

I bought chep one 2 channel FNIRSI oscilloscope. Cheap and easy to use, just remember that two channels ground must be the same. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/FNIRSI-Digital-Oscilloscope/2939001_510895082.html?tt=xhe_short_link&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.hotSpots_2005208198343.1&aff_fcid=325f65b32a954cca89e3b355fa555934-1701464206948-03484-_opJNU3d&aff_fsk=_opJNU3d&aff_platform=default&sk=_opJNU3d&aff_trace_key=325f65b32a954cca89e3b355fa555934-1701464206948-03484-_opJNU3d&terminal_id=1744367f5dfd4adabedb01f6c16805ad

[Verpies]

I bought chep one 2 channel FNIRSI oscilloscope.

How much did you pay for it?

[partzman]

Another reason to buy a DSO is psychology...

We are not computers we are conscious beings. As such we can talk fancy terms, equations and numbers all day long but nothing really registers. However draw a picture and even very complex problems can become easy. This is because evolution has taught us to think visually often called visual thinking or spacial learning. So a picture really is worth a thousand words.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/rethinking-thought/201602/new-look-visual-thinking
Albert Einstein, Viktor Schauberger and Nikola Tesla were visual thinkers building a image of the concept in their mind first then building on what they imagined. Being able to "see" how everything works down to the particle/field level seems kind of helpful in avoiding common mistakes.

So numbers on a DMM and math/equations mean nothing to me, it's pointless, however show me a picture or graphical representation and I can nail a process down no problem. Coincidentally, it's theorized that advanced ancient civilizations and supposed beings from other planets don't use math. They use pictures and symbols to represent concepts. It begs the question, why use foreign or non-universal concepts to try to explain something when we could just use pictures everyone understands?.

AC

I think the viewing audience needs another opinion on DSO's!

Buy as much DSO scope as you can afford that has math function capability if you are serious about FE research.  Otherwise, you can look at the pretty traces all day long but will have to resort to eye and hand calculations to find out what results you have or what improvements you might have or need. 

For example, you can calculate the input or output power of a circuit by simply using the math function E*I knowing the voltage and current.  A DSO scope with good math capabilities will then take the sum of the instantaneous products over time of the voltage and current in this case and provide a true average of the power of even complex waveforms.  No need to guess phase angles or distortion of sine waveforms, etc. 

This is not only important information about your device operation but also gives the user more insight and knowledge into how certain circuitry might work.  Invaluable info!!!

Because of their digital storage capability, a DSO can also have the capability of storing one or more traces for future comparison.  This will be important if you have limited channel capability but wish to view a greater number of traces on one view.

Yes, DSO's do have some limitations and a learning curve but honestly for the buck, they are the most important tool for our work.

Regards,
Pm

[Verpies]

Also, for power measurements and FFT calcs, a 12-bit scope helps a lot.
I think, the cheapest 12-bit scopes now are the ones from the DHO-800 series from Rigol.

If you need a built-in digital Logic Analyzer and 12-bit analog then the DHO-900 series fits that bill.

[forest]

How much did you pay for it?

Less then $200 or about 750 PLN :-)

[AlienGrey]

Less then $200 or about 750 PLN :-)

I didn't pay much more than that for my Rigal 1050

Sil

[chief kolbacict]

Coincidentally, it's theorized that advanced ancient civilizations and supposed beings from other planets don't use math. They use pictures and symbols to represent concepts. It begs the question, why use foreign or non-universal concepts to try to explain something when we could just use pictures everyone understands?.
AC

Did aliens give us a concept of oscilloscope?
Maybe they will leave us with the idea of ​​how to make a perpetual motion machine.