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Author Topic: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator.  (Read 816940 times)

Group: Professor
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I think its high time we all wise-up to this Akula chap!!
I don't think this reply was intended as a response to this post.
This reply is befitting more of this post.
« Last Edit: 2014-04-19, 13:30:22 by verpies »
   

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How is that with other builders?   Is the feedback loop also not doing anything?
Their circuits do not work like yours.  There is something wrong with them.
I think this will change once they do the C4 (C8 Akula) fix properly.

its an AC current probe,  guess this would ALWAYS show AC only,   Right?
Right.
I thought that your current probes were Hall-based and capable of sensing DC current.
Too bad :(
You can always go back to using R3 and R1 (with C2 removed) as CSRs (if they are not inductive), but then you'll need to keep your probe ground clips on the positive terminal of  C11.

Except for the L2 polarity, I think that your circuit functions correctly.  IMO L2 must be connected in such a way that its current increases when the MOSFET is on the OFF state.

The reason you don't have the proper signal at the "feedback takeoff point" is because L2 is not generating strong enough pulses or is not connected properly.
Those pulses are the unconventional magic pulses that are supposed to be generated by a properly wound transformer over an appropriate core.

Take a look at this abridged simulation of the major power loop.

The current in R5 can rapidly fall and even reverse only and only if L2 somehow generates a strong negative EMF.  
This EMF will charge up C11 through D6 and will rapidly discharge C3, even to the point of reversing C3's voltage.
Push the momentary switch on the simulation to simulate the "magic pulse" occuring in L2 and observe how quickly the current falls and even reverses in R5. (you can increase LED's stray capacitance to make that negative current pulse larger)

The whole circuit (including the TL494 feedback loop) seems to be designed to expect powerful negative pulses from L2.
According to conventional electronic analysis, L2 will never generate such a pulse ...but according to McFreey, Gunderson, etc... it just might.

Anyway, that's what the circuit is waiting for.
« Last Edit: 2014-04-19, 18:11:02 by verpies »
   
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The thin darker lines are the gaps between tracks...not the tracks themselves.

I've missed the right word... sorry.... I've replace the picture with the right description...
   

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I've missed the right word... sorry.... I've replace the picture with the right description...
At these voltages there is no risk of an arcing across those varnished gaps.  If you notice any arcing between tracks, notify Groundloop immediately.
The increased inter-track capacitive reactance is negligible at these frequencies.

It is easier to manufacture printed circuits with wider gaps.  That's probably why the Chinese do it in their "normal circuits".
   
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@verpies SORRY-SORRY AND SORRY AGAIN.

First, let's now put the main skeleton on the table. Our only reference of this circuit working is via x-name41. No video of Akula was ever shown with this circuit working. If x_name41 made his video based on the original Akula 30 watts circuit diagram, then it did not work in loop and that is why he faked his video probably because he was so pissed off in following the circuit to the letter and not showing looping. So he spiked his circuit with two feed wires from underneath. I know he faked it and there is solid proof. So x_name41 was not able to self-run it, only fake it. I am convinced that the problem is R3 and he could not figure it out himself. Probably if he is reading this forum, he will do the change himself on his circuit. This does not mean the Akula device is fake, only that there are mistakes in the diagram and we need to work them out.

I really appreciate your extra effort on my behalf and am sorry to be so repetitive. A real pain I know, but then you or anyone else would need to answer these questions just to make quadruple sure when looking at your original diagram. I am sure some others are asking themselves the same thing.

1) Why would you accept to pass dc + directly through R3 - then L2 - then R2- then to load, continuously? This is like a straight line to load and since load is at the end of the line, the DC+ entering R3 is still positive when it enters L2 and still positive when exiting L2 and still positive when entering R2 so still positive when exiting R2 and when hitting the load. L2 is always positive going to load.

You can pulse L1 as much as you want and L2 bleed will not change. You can switch the R2/R3 around with diode and cap (like on your second diagram you made for me) but that does not change this continuous DC bleed to load at all times. @Itsu said his R3 was really hot? That's not a good path to OU by wasting energy in a resistor, especially when it is not required.

2) Then how do you expect to refill C11 if L2 is so busy passing DC to load? You are saying D6 is passing a high voltage spike to L2 then R3 then to C11. But why would you want to more resistance in this path when it is not required. In any case any spike through D5 will hit the load (path of least resistance) before it can pass L2 and R3. So that logic is not fluent enough to work.

3) Then why do you think L1 is not only going to the Mosfet Q1, but just before that it is bypassed by D5 and sent to load as well? This part is OK and for me this is the only main out-of-the-box feature of the Akula circuit. Instead of feeding the load with L2, he is feeding the load with L1 via D5. That's all he needs to do to feed the load. He then must be using the free L2 to replenish the C11. There is no other way. But L2 cannot replenish C11 and feed the load at the same time because it cannot respond to the L1 pulse off the E-core because L2s' internal polarity is always held positive by R3.

4) How do you think the mosfet is influencing what L1 is sending to the load? The pulsed mosfet is useless because pulsing L1 is useless as per the diagram. You pulse a coil to impart to the another coil otherwise you are stuck with overflux in the core, but if the other coil is already full of DC, then how do you expect it to react? It cannot.

5) What adverse effect would you anticipate if R3 was replaced by a diode? Is such a change going to risk blowing the circuit? I can't see how it could.

For me, when I consider all of these conditions as the diagram is draw presently, none of it makes sense if R3 is not replaced with a diode pointing to C11. Nothing else, just a diode at that point prohibits DC+ from entering the top of L2 but provides a clear and simple path so L2 can refill C11 ASAP. If you fill C11 fast enough you can have a self-runner but you need an available and receptive L2 to accomplish that.

The diode D6 can still be there and there is no problem having two diodes one on each side of L2 because they both react differently depending on the polarities and intensities present in L2. My opinion on the D6 diode is it is never really used except if L1 really created some very high spikes that could pass the D6 and enter the L2 but if the coils are well tuned, that should never occur. The other reasons is if D6 is held in reverse threshold mode by extreme changes in L2. But those extremes cannot occur if R3 is holding it hostage.

Just having that one D6 is not the same thing as also replacing the R3 with a diode because the source of polarity changes is supposed to originate from inside L2 and not something that can be controlled by D6. If you check D6 temperature, it is probably not hot at all because it is not being used for much.

Look I know I may risk ("risk" huh more like "for sure") coming off as the resident shmuck of the forum, being such a pain and all. But I think everyone should stop and carefully answer the above questions. There is no point to continue if this is not resolved in a logical manner. We seem to think it is OK to force feed through L2 then to load, I do not think, well actual I know, that if L2 is feeding the load as it is doing, then impulses from L1 to L2 are useless. L2 is just a conductor. Add the fact that some are using the T-1000 wind and this is compounded even greater.

Maybe asked again, why is R2 present in the circuit. For me it is if R3 was a diode then when C11 is full and cannot take anymore, if the stress in L2 increases further it will dump more and more to load instead of over saturating L2 and killing the overall effect. It's a question of balance but you cannot achieve that balance if one side is tipped way over the scale as R3 is doing now.

I won't bring this up again but I will make my own circuit "eventually" and do it my way.

wattsup

PS: This post took 3 hours to prepare (last night and this morning) because I wanted to make sure I did not vex you since I hold you in top regard and I consider this part of my duty to point out something so wrong. Akula is not infallible and I would not be surprised if he put R3 there (instead of a diode) on purpose to see who will figure it out. That fact that he is not coming forward any more openly is his way of saying "There is no free lunch man". Use your brains and figure it out. His way of saying, "if you can find the problem, then you have proven to me that you have finally learned well what the circuit is doing".


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  Thanks for your insights, wattsup.

  NOTE -- I have sent "Akula circuit boards" to Mexico (first class mail), and to California and Hawaii (Priority Mail); on their way!
   
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@ Wottsup,

I've tried your diode idea and it makes no difference to the observable operation of the circuit for the reasons that Verpies has already pointed out to you.

Don't take our word for it, build it yourself and see.

Happy
   

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This does not mean the Akula device is fake, only that there are mistakes in the diagram and we need to work them out.
We have to be objective and consider that possibility.

There are several Akula's 30W perpetual flashlight schematic diagrams in circulation:
Diagram v1.0
Diagram v2.0
Diagram v2.1
Diagram v2.2
Diagram v3.0

The Diagram v1.0 does not match the functionally of other diagrams because in v1.0 the pulses to the the MOSFET's gate are inverted and because of this the duty cycle can vary only between 53% and 100% while the TL494 feedback loop is positive.

In all other versions gate pulses are not inverted and the duty cycle can vary between 0% and 47% while the TL494 feedback loop is negative.

That allegedly successful replication was done according to diagram v2.0
v2.0 is functionally and electronically equivalent to v2.1 and v2.2  (the differences between them are only graphical).
v2.0 is also functionally equivalent to v3.0 (but not electronically).
v2.0 is functionally and electronically different from v1.0


The point of the above is that indeed all of these schematics cannot be correct, because they are not the same and one is just the opposite of the others.

Why would you accept to pass dc + directly through R3 - then L2 - then R2- then to load, continuously?
No, because R2 is practically an open circuit (420kΩ).
To transfer 30W across such resistance would require 3550 Volts.  None of the components would be able to withstand that much voltage.

...the DC+ entering R3 is still positive when it enters L2 and still positive when exiting L2
Not if L2 generates an EMF that is opposite and greater than the voltage across C11.  
When -VL2 > VC11 then VC11 + VL2 < 0 (negative).
BTW: D6 conducts when VC11 + VL2 < VC3.
See this abridged simulation of the major power loop.

Do you think that your remaining questions are valid in light of these objections above?
« Last Edit: 2014-04-19, 18:25:53 by verpies »
   

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Buy me a cigar
Dear Verpies.

I have had a busy day today so I have only now got back to the PCB.

I still have the same situation with regards to Video 2 with R6 (one side lifted) from the board.

Thanks to a.king21 I now have a compliment of 25 1 W LED's connected to the output.

There is obviously something wrong with my electronics !! Do you have any suggestions ??

Cheers Grum.


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
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Evening Grum,

How are your LED chips arranged? There needs to be no more than 5 in each series string.

Hoppy
   

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Buy me a cigar
Evening Grum,

How are your LED chips arranged? There needs to be no more than 5 in each series string.

Hoppy

Good evening Hoppy.

Yes you are correct !! I now have 5 strips of 1 W LED's, 5 per strip and 5 in parallel.

Cheers Grum.


---------------------------
Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   

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I still have the same situation with regards to Video 2 with R6 (one side lifted) from the board.
Well did you pull out +C4 and connect it to R5 (next to pins 13 & 14) ?

There is obviously something wrong with my electronics !! Do you have any suggestions ??
Take out one side of R6 and let me know if the output of the TL494 is still inhibited when you increase the supply voltage above 8.6VDC.
   

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You can always go back to using R3 and R1 (with C2 removed) as CSRs (if they are not inductive), but then you'll need to keep your probe ground clips on the positive terminal of  C11.

Except for the L2 polarity, I think that your circuit functions correctly.  IMO L2 must be connected in such a way that its current increases when the MOSFET is on the OFF state.

OK,  i used R3 (measured 1 Ohm) and R1 (measured 0.2 Ohm) as CSR's (i have removed C2).
The both ground leads of the probes are at the C11 plus side, but probe and ground lead are as close to the resistors as possible to exclude any extra inductance.
The both channels 1 and 2 are inverted to show the correct current direction.

I have the current probe first in L1 (first screenshot), then L2 (2th screenshot) to compare with the currents through the resistors.
Probe situated as mentioned in my last post.

Data:

1st screenshot

L1 (current probe) 6.1A * 2 = 12.2A
R1 (yellow)           3.6V / 0.2 Ohm = 18A        (for voltages i did NOT take the value in the boxes (as they have some spikes), but the signal in the division divides)
R3 (blue)              8.5V / 1 Ohm = 8.5A

2th screenshot

L2 (current probe) 3.56A * 2 = 7.12A
R1 (yellow)           3.6V /  0.2 Ohm = 18A
R3 (blue)              8.5V / 1 Ohm = 8.5A

Regards Itsu

   

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As a side note, I remember one of the Russian members at O.U.com mentioning something about the capacitor needing to be on the opposite side of the L1 (choke).   I will have to look for that info.....
When I moved the capacitor to the *other* side of the L1 (choke) I noticed that the simulations in LTspice showed quasi resonant condition.... I have attached the LTspice file if anyone is interested.

take care, peace
lost_bro

I did just that, but besides a cleaner drain voltage signal (nice square wave, so no more jump half way) no noticeable other effects are seen.

Regards Itsu
   
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@verpies

Thanks again. I totally forgot about the 420k value of R2.

I know what to do now. I will simply work on the E-core driving method and just dispense with the all the circuitry for the frequency control. So I will make the coils and the other particulars as shown below, wind a tuned primary and secondary and do all my tests with my FG having full control to better understand what is going on in this device.

Something is wrong and I will find it. hehehe

@Happy

Thanks for trying the diode at R3. Listen man, it is too complicated for me to explain so while you guys work out the circuit end I will do it myself and prepare the tuning of the coils and set-up a procedure for testing and report back. This part, the hunting part is my specialty and I would have to be standing behind you to explain everything and even then the circuit frequency drive limitations would just drive me crazy. Better to work the output end with full control first, then to bring it into a stand alone. With the set-up below, if I hit a good effect I should be able to remove the battery and make it run even with the FG in place, the point would be made.

@verpies

One last question, I promise.

L2 needs a ground somewhere otherwise what does L2 do when the primary is pulsed, L2 will develop a voltage differential, so where the does negative go if both sides of L2 are positive. Is it possible that D6, R2 and C4 are arranging a type of floating ground for L2?

This won't change the my test method but it is the only other question that I have not manged to resolved for myself.

wattsup


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Quote
signal on pin3 (purple)
That one is starting to annoy me.  Apparently it is idle but the scope shows positive and negative spikes on it.  The TL494 cannot produce negative spikes so I must assume that those spikes are an artifact due to EMI.  Time for EMI countermeasures!

zooming in on this:

green trace is pin 3
purple trace is pin 2
blue trace is junction R12 and C7
yellow trace is gate signal

What i see is ONLY negative pulses on pin 3, not (hardly) on pin 2 or the junction R12/C7
To me this means that these negative pulses are coming from pin 3 (TL494), right?

Regards Itsu
   

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L2 needs a ground somewhere otherwise what does L2 do when the primary is pulsed? Will L2 will develop a voltage differential?
Yes.
Note that "voltage differential" does not necessarily result in current flow. (e.g. when the circuit is open or a diode blocks the flow).

so where the does negative go if both sides of L2 are positive. Is it possible that D6, R2 and C4 are arranging a type of floating ground for L2?
"Ground" can be assumed at an any point.  You can pick and choose.  
You could assume the cathode of D6 as the ground because that choice is arbitrary and inconvenient.

For this circuit it is much more convenient to assume the negative terminal of C3 as the ground.
When L2 develops a voltage differential between its terminals, it will behave as a floating battery in series with the C3 capacitor.  Depending on the polarity of this "differential", L2's voltage (VL2) will add or subtract with the voltage across C3 (VC3) just like the voltage of two different batteries connected in series.
If VC3 plus VL2 becomes greater than the voltage across C11 (VC11) then the diode D6 will allow current to flow ...and if VC3 plus VL2 remains less then VC11 then D6 will block the current.
From the point of view of VC3 + VL2 the VC11 is a parallel voltage source.  As you probably know, no current flow is possible between two parallel voltage sources of equal voltage.

"Normal" transformers work like gears and their primary and secondary currents flow simultaneously in opposite directions. (their magnetic coupling coefficient is close to unity, too)
"Flyback" transformers have diodes in series with their secondary windings that prohibit such simultaneous flows of currents.  In such transformers primary and secondary currents flow alternately (non-simultaneously) in the same direction.

I believe that the transformer in this Akula's circuit was designed to operate in the "flyback" mode.

« Last Edit: 2014-04-20, 00:39:31 by verpies »
   

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I will simply work on the E-core driving method and just dispense with the all the circuitry for the frequency control. So I will make the coils and the other particulars as shown below, wind a tuned primary and secondary and do all my tests with my FG having full control to better understand what is going on in this device.
That's fine.  The video mentioned in this message might show you waveforms that you might find helpful in hunting for the magic effect.
As always, the construction details and core of the transformer are of paramount importance.
   

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OK,  i used R3 (measured 1 Ohm) and R1 (measured 0.2 Ohm) as CSR's (i have removed C2).
The both ground leads of the probes are at the C11 plus side, but probe and ground lead are as close to the resistors as possible to exclude any extra inductance.
The both channels 1 and 2 are inverted to show the correct current direction.

R1 (yellow)    
R3 (blue)  
   

You still have the L1 and L2 currents reaching maxima and zeros simultaneously.  That's a characteristic current transfer in a "normal transformer".  That transformer mode is wrong in my opinion.
For a "flyback transformer" mode (the correct one IMO), L2 should be reversed and these waveforms should look like this:



Ch1 (yellow) : Gate voltage in reference to ground
Ch2 (blue)    : Voltage across R1, with C2 removed (L1 Current)
Ch3 (green)  : Voltage across R3 (L2 Current)
« Last Edit: 2014-04-20, 00:55:57 by verpies »
   

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green trace is pin 3
purple trace is pin 2
blue trace is junction R12 and C7
yellow trace is gate signal

What i see is ONLY negative pulses on pin 3, not (hardly) on pin 2 or the junction R12/C7
To me this means that these negative pulses are coming from pin 3 (TL494), right?
I would not be so sure.
The amplitude of positive spikes on pin 2 is 4x higher than on pin 3.

Do you have these spikes on the supply pins of the TL494 (pins 7, 12, 14), too ?
   

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You still have the L1 and L2 currents reaching maxima and zeros simultaneously.  That's a characteristic current transfer in a "normal transformer".  That transformer mode is wrong in my opinion.
For a "flyback transformer" mode (the correct one IMO), L2 should be reversed and these waveforms should look like this:



Ch1 (yellow) : Gate voltage in reference to ground
Ch2 (blue)    : Voltage across R1, with C2 removed (L1 Current)
Ch3 (green)  : Voltage across R3 (L2 Current)

Ok, but what does that mean?  Does it mean the design of this circuit is wrong, or did i make a measurement/connection mistake somewhere?
The difference between a normal transformer and a flyback transformer is the diode in the secondary, right?
Well we do have one in the form of D6, so why does it not work in flyback transformer mode?

Thanks,  regards Itsu
   

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I would not be so sure.
The amplitude of positive spikes on pin 2 is 4x higher than on pin 3.

Do you have these spikes on the supply pins of the TL494 (pins 7, 12, 14), too ?

I thought that the negative spikes are an indication of EMI, those are not present on pin2 and the junction.
Let me check tonight on spikes on the supply pins, i did that before, and found them almost clean, but i will check again.

Regards Itsu
   
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If I can give my opinion as electronic spin doctors not so ...

I see the project 30w very difficult to replicate so you do not even know if it works ...

maybe it was an idea that remained on paper and a real simulation of the circuit but never swich on....

Xname41 .... it seems to me that at the beginning of his video says exatly "IDIOTS" so I think it's definitely a fake replica also because it has not posted any videos or other replication schemes ...

In my opinion the 30w project replication should be left aside and focus on the latest invention of 8 LEDs and try to replicate that ....

it seems to me that Akula has project it right to be replicated by all.... hoping that gives the circuit diagram ...

You are more experts about me and decide if it would appropriate  open a new tread on this new project called????
   

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Ok, but what does that mean?  Does it mean the design of this circuit is wrong, or did i make a measurement/connection mistake somewhere?
I don't think you've made a wrong measurement.  Maybe you made a relative current measurement error before, but not this time.  You just can't go wrong with two CSRs sharing a common junction.

The difference between a normal transformer and a flyback transformer is the diode in the secondary, right?
Yes, and...
- the direction of the secondary current is different relative to a primary current compared to a "normal" transformer.
- the magnetic coupling coefficient is lower than in a "normal" transformer. (usually accomplished by a gap in the core)

Well we do have one in the form of D6, so why does it not work in flyback transformer mode?
Because the L2 connection is reversed...or diodes are backwards or conducting in reverse.
« Last Edit: 2014-04-20, 13:52:18 by verpies »
   

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Buy me some coffee
Tutorial_FE
I'm not sure you fully understand, this is not an XName design, it's an Akula design that he has shown to be free running, i would ask you to refrain from negative posts, we are here because we are trying to see if we can get it working, by throwing expertise at it and to try and uncover Akula's secret.

We work as a team here, there are no negative comments, only conclusions and suggestions, if you feel that way then stop working on it and work on something else, Free energy research comes with failure as part of the process of learning, most here are learning while enjoying what they are doing, who knows a breakthrough maybe gained in the process, and certainly everyone can carry the knowledge gained into future projects.

Now if you want me to start a thread on the device you have shown then i can do that, PM me with a title and i will open a thread and move your post into it.

Personally i think so far i have never seen so many people joining together to try and understand such a device, hopefully it has been enjoyable and a valuable experience for most so far.
   
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