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Author Topic: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!  (Read 54908 times)
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Scope guys
we received this today

  Tequipment Tequipment.NET
 205 Westwood Ave
 Long Branch, NJ 07740
732-222-7077 - Tel
732-222-7088 - Fax
  
This e-mail may have been generated from a historical order.  
 If you have any questions please feel free to contact us at 1-877-571-7901
  

Thank You! Claim your $25 Gift Card for writing a product review.
 
 
 
 
 
   
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Well, that's cool. So what kind of a review do they want, like a paragraph or so? If I send the review to you, can you send it to them?

Here:

The Rigol DS1054Z had a solid, quality feel to all it. The construction is robust, the controls smooth and accurate, and it's loaded with functionality. I particularly like the variable intensity display and the cursor functions, and the ease of saving a screen capture to a USB stick by a single button press. For a scope with such a depth of features, it is still very easy to use. I don't find the fan too noisy, and the probes it comes with are just fine, have long cords and are well suited to the scope. I am still amazed by the low cost of this fully functional, easy to use high-quality instrument. I've been testing it steadily for two days now and it's working great. The only minor drawback is that it does not have a Real-Time Clock, so saved setup, image, etc. files are not properly time-stamped.
We also purchased the Rigol carry-case/bag for the scope, and this item is also really well designed. It's not just a bag, but rather a semi-hardshell case with room for probes, cables, manual and some other accessories, and it fits the scope perfectly. It even has an inner restraint strap that secures the scope inside the case, and the quality of the fabric, stitching, clasps and zippers is excellent.
I give the scope a solid 5-star rating, and would recommend it as a first digital scope for just about anyone who doesn't need a very high bandwidth DSO.
   
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Ah,bugga. Oh well-cant win them all.
Im guessing these other scopes you mentioned cost an arm and leg.

Wish i could work out the math function on my scope-that would be handy.

Well, a leg anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-199C-003-Handheld-Oscilloscope-FlukeView-CD-USB-Cable-MINT-199C-/151632481118

What's the make and model of your scope? I'll see if I can find a manual and figure out the math function.

I'll be showing the Rigol's math setup in a video soon, right now I'm setting up to show some other stuff about Averaging and Cursor functions on a "noise" waveform.
   
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Tinsel
I'll call them later .
 
Edit
Well...
Also I have a thought, How would you feel about applying that money towards a scope for TinMan
[he doesn't like his as much since he saw yours... :-[.]
and his has issues...


??.

   
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Yes, absolutely OK with me if they'll let you do it at TEq.

But.... I've found a minor software error, I think.

Doing a power calculation, CH1 x CH2.  Setting the "unit" of CH1 to A (amps) and the "unit" of CH2 to V (volts) and the Math operation to CH1xCH2, the thing automagically knows that the results should be in Watts and tells you the vertical scale and offset (position) correctly in Watts. But then when Measurement Source is set to Math, to make the measurements menu on the left screen use the Math trace... the units come up in whatever you have selected for CH1, NOT the correct "Watts". See the scopeshot below. This also happens to the "All Measurements" table, when Math is selected as the source. It gives the vertical units in whatever you have set for CH1, not the correct "W" but in my case "A".

I think I'll join the EEVBlog forum and post this, see what they say over there about it.
   
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Ok
will wait and see...
   

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Also I have a thought, How would you feel about applying that money towards a scope for TinMan
[he doesn't like his as much since he saw yours... :-[.]
and his has issues...


??.


Hey dont worry to much about a new scope for me just yet Chet-->but thanks anyway.
I would like to see if i can nut out the math function on this one first-->with the help of other's. Im still learning to use this scope,so a new one really isnt needed at this point in time.

@TK
My scope is the ATTEN ADS1102CAL . I can find the math functions and CH1 x CH2,and get the math trace to come up-but i cant find the calculated power anywhere. So it's doing the math,but keeping the answer a secret lol.


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Grr.... I may have to return this new scope. It appears to have an actual problem on CH4.

When any two of the other channels are turned on, even if no signal is being applied to them, CH4 gets a 1 volt or greater positive offset when in 5v/div or greater vertical scale. There's a relay that clicks when going from 2v/div to higher values, and when this relay clicks the offset hits. But only if two of the other channels are on. This happens whether CH4 is in AC or DC input coupling. But sometimes (rarely) it doesn't happen, seems almost OK but is noisier than the other channels, then it will "jump" to the +1V offset. It's fine at settings of 2V/div or less -- except see below.
Also, when no inputs to anything are plugged in, and CH4 is set to 10mV/div (the most sensitive setting) and AC-coupled input is selected, the channel jumps to _one full division__ of negative offset. Sometimes even more. Over 10mV of negative offset in AC coupled, in the 10mV/div range on CH4 !! This is regardless of whether other channels are on or not, it's a steady thing and doesn't matter what other settings are in use.

These problems are not due to probes or signals, they can be demonstrated with nothing connected to the scope at all.

The other three channels are fairly well behaved, there are slight offsets in certain conditions but acceptably small. The CH4 behaviour seems to indicate some kind of hardware problem, _I think_. I've tried self-calibration several times, am just about to test after Yet Another self-calibrate (it takes 15-20 minutes for the self-cal routine to run).

I hate returning stuff. Especially after the long wait and the tension of UPS "delivery".  I wonder if I should just "suck it up" and consider CH4 unreliable in certain conditions. One hardly ever needs 4 channels anyway... but GRRRRRRR.....   >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(



@Tinman: I've been wrapped up with this problem all night, haven't had a chance to look at the Atten manual to see if I can figure out the math measurements, sorry. I'll try to get to it later on today.

   

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@Tinman: I've been wrapped up with this problem all night, haven't had a chance to look at the Atten manual to see if I can figure out the math measurements, sorry. I'll try to get to it later on today.


Hey,no hurry TK--when you have some free time. I have lived without it for a couple of years now,so a little longer wont hurt O0


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Tinsel
Let me know if you want me to call them, we did purchase two and I am quite  certain they will want a good review ......

will wait for your reply.
   
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There is definitely something wrong with CH4. Sometimes it will just go crazy with noise and fullscreen glitches, even with nothing at all connected to any inputs. The problem seems to be related to whatever is switching with the relay between 2v/div and higher, and/or the channel input coupling.  I'm sitting here right now watching it, with a probe connected to the Calibrator, and it's behaving well, with only a little amplitude jitter and about 200 mV positive offset error at 5 V/div. But I feel that it's just on the edge of flipping out. Only CH4 acts this way, fortunately, and it's intermittent. So I dunno. I do want things to be perfect but I have a horror of the "return for warranty" cycle.... and who knows where it will wind up using UPS.

Perhaps you could call TEquipment and ask them about options and alternatives for this situation...

Here's a shot I captured when it was behaving badly. All channels baselines are overlaid on the center graticule marker, but you can see where CH4 winds up... and this isn't even the crazy fullscreen glitches at 5v/div I've seen.


   

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A slight chance of a software issue, maybe looking for a bios update or other reported erratic problems with the software version it was shipped with.
offcourse it could also be defective as you suspect, just seems strange how the problem is happening but not all the time.
   
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Just finishing up a motor job [quite Bizzy] ,I have a feeling that Monday will be the best bet for speaking with "principles" there.
I know its annoying but we will sort it out .

one way or another
   
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A slight chance of a software issue, maybe looking for a bios update or other reported erratic problems with the software version it was shipped with.
offcourse it could also be defective as you suspect, just seems strange how the problem is happening but not all the time.
It has the latest firmware available. Even so, it could be a software issue, since some of the parts that are in the front-end are software controlled, like op-amps and digital potentiometer chips. It doesn't respond to being "beaten on" gently so it's not just something loose. Maybe bad relay contacts, a bad coupling capacitor, a semiconductor failing from heat stress that's only in circuit for certain settings... I dunno.
It has been sitting here perfectly stably, showing the calibrator trace at 5V/div, for an hour now. Maybe it has cured itself. Yeah... right. I think I've got 30 days for the TEquipment replacement warranty, so I'll keep on evaluating it until I'm convinced one way or the other. I could live with the AC offset issue at 10mV/div, but the glitches and weirdness at 5V/div are definitely  not acceptable and if that crap keeps up I'll definitely have to send it back for replacement. Then the cycle begins all over again....

   
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So, while I'm testing that Channel 4 for stability it's a perfect time to try out the Mask Test function, with a "pass-fail" Beep Alarm set to alert me if the waveform varies from the Mask parameters. This turned out to be a whole lot easier to set up than it sounds like... See the scopeshot below. I set the mask to be just a little larger than the CH4 calibrator waveform, and if it repeats the offset variation or the wild crazzy glitches, it will obviously exceed the Mask limits, and should beep an alarm at me and record the "fail" in the Stats box.

Haterz will hate... my own personal trolls are getting caught up, leaving their driveby thumbs-downs, without daring to comment. The last two scoposcopy vids have gotten 3 each, and even the "unboxing" video has a couple of thumbs-downs! What could be objectionable about a simple unboxing video? I even used a tripod.... LOL... I know I'm reaching my "target audience" (tm Steorn) when the driveby thumbs-downs start!

And the "Objekt013b" video comments section has been taken over by Russians! I don't think many of them get the point of the "alt.snakeoil" series. Oh well....    C.C
   
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Slider says no problems yet...[completely stock set up]
I believe he will be stopping in here ,He has been enjoying your Scope Vids tremendously.
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Indeed, thanks for the heads up Chet..I hadn't been here today yet.

I tried CH4 as soon as you mentioned there may be a problem and it seems clean and clear, at least when a probe is inserted.
Hmmm, could it be an overly sensitive floating input ? The impedance of the probe being expected whenever the channel is in use.

Quote
Also, when no inputs to anything are plugged in, and CH4 is set to 10mV/div (the most sensitive setting) and AC-coupled input is selected, the channel jumps to _one full division__ of negative offset.
Will try that..am looking for a USB stick at the moment, for a screen capture.


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
I get quite the mess on the screen at such a sensitive setting...but do expect to. The noise being from me being near to the scope and picking up A/C. Unless, of course, it isn't supposed to be displayed, through damping.

Btw, no USB stick, so have used the USB connector of the camera. Least I know that method will work :)



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Yah, that looks like about 3mV of positive offset.

Try this:
Acquire>Mode>Average, then use the multi-function knob to select 16 or more Averages. That should give you a narrow line and you can see the offset error better that way.

What happens when you select "AC coupled" from the CH4 menu? Also does the offset change when you turn on the other channels?

Odd that you are using that Slope trigger. Normally you'd be using "edge" trigger, but in Auto with no signal it hardly matters. Is the Slope trigger for something you're working on?

   
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After running for over an hour with no trouble at all, suddenly the CH4 started glitching badly again, but it only went on for a few seconds and now is running stably again, with all 4 channels on 5V/Div and the Calibrator signal going to them. Not touching or moving around anything at all, I'm just sitting here watching "The Bridge" (the Swedish one) season 2. No idea what set it off.

There's a mockingbird singing right outside my door on the side porch, marking his territory.  Spring is here!
   
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i love mocking birds !!
you get the whole concert from just one singer...
   

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Haterz will hate... my own personal trolls are getting caught up, leaving their driveby thumbs-downs, without daring to comment. The last two scoposcopy vids have gotten 3 each, and even the "unboxing" video has a couple of thumbs-downs! What could be objectionable about a simple unboxing video? I even used a tripod.... LOL... I know I'm reaching my "target audience" (tm Steorn) when the driveby thumbs-downs start!


Lol,i picked up 3 new thumb downers since asking for measurements on the Clarence(B&L) thread at OU.


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I don't mind the "thumbs downs" if the person leaves a comment explaining what they don't like, so that I can improve what I'm doing (or ignore or block the actual trolls). But the "drive bys" with no comment indicate a high level of sheer yellow-bellied cowardice. I even know who leaves them,  most of the time, but without knowing their "current" YT username I can't block them. Oh well...


Meanwhile, back at the ranch... I'm more sure than ever that there is some hardware problem. After a long time of steady running without glitches, I decided to let the scope rest and cool off, so I turned it off and went to sleep for a while. Then up again, turned the scope on, set up the 4-channel Calibrator monitor screen with pass-fail mask, and after about 20 minutes or so it started glitching. I touched nothing. But I noticed some consistency to the behaviour. When it started, the CH4 trace would drift down slowly from its "normal" +300mV or so offset to some negative value, then break up a little bit and snap back up to "normal" . After a few cycles of this, it began glitching really badly. I was able to Stop and capture a screenshot of a glitch. This isn't even nearly as bad as it can get. Then after me changing scale, channel off-on, and lots of other things a few times, including selecting "Auto" setup, the glitches have stopped and it's back to stable (relatively). Warmed up past the "glitch" point? I dunno. It's still doing it but not as badly, just the drift-snapback thing but no breakdown into utter glitchyness.
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Will do those tests asap TK...and I do think it worth raising with Rigol themselves.
It could simply be a means to lower the price, that they have some fuzzed up work-around for a cheaper solution.
Oh, it wasn't that i'm working on something specific with the settings, the slope trigger was an oversight. Apologies about that, theres far more to these than i've ever used on previous scopes.


About the thumbing down - some people cannot say 'well done', 'thank you' or be constructive and helpful if they spot an error.
So, what ? are we supposed to fear them, creating a mysterious dark entity presence that we cower to ? The big tough thumbs down military combat ready Uzi wielding opinions master of the universe ?! "I have spoken with my click and I wield my mighty click in your direction". Replace the word click for their ego based similarly sounding word.  
For some, your videos should be no longer than the length of a pop song, should have bikini wearing chicks at each video section edit and any word longer than 3 syllables be removed. Ye gads, you don't even have music in the background, to help carry them through without getting bored by the factual information !
However much they want their -1 to count, it doesn't. It matters as much as their non existent written reasoning for doing it.  


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Here we go.
All channels appear slightly affected, to 10th's of a percent and such.
A simple turn of the vertical rebalances to the center line, but it is indeed odd how just 1 channel does it to the different extent. A concern is that it comes and goes as a problem on that channel.
« Last Edit: 2015-04-12, 14:55:51 by Slider2732 »


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