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Author Topic: The Engine,and then the gas  (Read 22089 times)

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Hi All.

After following up on Mikes post about NOX.... I've taken a quote from the Wikipedia article.

"  Water Injection technology, whereby water is introduced into the combustion chamber, is also becoming an important means of NO
x  reduction through increased efficiency in the overall combustion process. Alternatively, the water (e.g. 10 to 50%) is emulsified into the fuel oil before the injection and combustion. This emulsification can either be made in-line (unstabilized) just before the injection or as a drop-in fuel with chemical additives for long term emulsion stability (stabilized). Inline emulsified fuel/water mixtures show NO
x  reductions between 4 and 83% "

I found it quite interesting, are we now paying for Water in our fuel?

Cheers Graham.

HI Graham

Using my phone on my terraze having a beer >:-) here in Spain we have Neox fuel, they do not say what is in it but I think we can guess fairly accurately C.C C.C, we pay a premium for this and they call it neotech ;D ;D ;D

Regards

Mike  8)


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Brad

The smaller the droplets in a fixed area the greater the surface area for reaction.
I will explain later

Regards

Mike


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Ok,so after a bit of searching,i have found the circuit board they are using.

Below is a screen shot from there video,as well as the complete board i found.

So something is amiss here,as the PS-05 power supplies only come in 5 and 12 volt's,and the bloke in the video said 24 volts. The watt meter on the wall also seems to be plugged into a mains multi board,and so that would be 282mA at 110 volts in America--240 volts here in Oz.

Link to the power supply boards.
https://www.soigeneris.com/meanwell-ps-05-power-supplies

They also state the electronics are proprietary,and in the process of patents.
Obviously they are not.
Im smelling a rat here.

Added
The R5V board they are using is only 5 volts output.
So things are looking not so good so far.


Brad


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Hi Brad.

Which video? Do you have a link?

I've been thinking a lot about this project. As Mike states, the finer the mist the better.

What could be done with the Petter Diesel is to put an adjustable packer under the fuel pump so that it just " blips " it. You could then have a mainly water saturated compression stroke followed by a minuscule Hydrocarbon ignition event.

Cheers Graham.


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Good investigating Brad O0... that is without a doubt the same circuit.
When I saw it in the video I didn't believe that was their proprietary circuit.
If this is real we can only assume it's a power supply for their circuit.
I also agree and had noticed the power meter they used is a grid meter.

Hope you will continue your experiments and that Michael N. and Smudge can further assist... I like the Plasmoid action Smudge mentioned.

Cheers
Luc
   

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Hi Brad.

Which video? Do you have a link?

I've been thinking a lot about this project. As Mike states, the finer the mist the better.

What could be done with the Petter Diesel is to put an adjustable packer under the fuel pump so that it just " blips " it. You could then have a mainly water saturated compression stroke followed by a minuscule Hydrocarbon ignition event.

Cheers Graham.

The video of the small blue 7.5hp engine they show running on there system.

I agree,the finer the mist the better.
I found that as i increased the pressure of the garden/cooling mister,the finer the mist.
In fact,at 65psi it was that fine that it floated up and away--almost as fine as the fogger i used earlier.

I think if the air/mist mix was drawn through an intercooler of some sort,it would be that cold that we could almost double the volume of air entering the cylinder. This is one thing i will be experimenting with in the coming week.

Tomorrow is my last day at work for 9 days,so tomorrow night will be the first of many long nights.
My intention is to push the limits on the engine i have ATM,until she lets go.
What i do need is a high power plasma ignition circuit.
If anyone can help out there in way of a circuit or idea,that would be great  O0


Brad


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Ok, I found the video....

Could it be as simple as a "fogger " under the water finely mixing the Petrol ( floating on top ) with the water?

I wonder if an " intercooler " might end up recombining the mist back to water Brad? Worth a try though eh?

Cheers Graham.


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Moray B King suggests that nanobubbles are the key to all this.  They are stable and he thinks they somehow cohere the ZPE to become miniature ball lightning.  All the improved electrolyzers create bubbles by cavitation and it is those bubbles that produce the anomalous energy.  I have taken the liberty of extracting 5 pages from his introduction and reproduced them here.  That gives clues to the working of this revolutionary new water engine, and a US patent number (US 20120186557).
Smudge
   
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And here is the patent.
Smudge
   

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Thank you Smudge O0 well that is a copy of Stans injector system for sure.

Here are some points to think about.

1.  Water in a vacuum boils at a lower temperature.

2.  When the water boils in this vacuum the temperature of the water also drops due to the change of state of the water.

3.  If the vacuum was sudden and the vacuum high enough the water would freeze.

4.  The dielectric constant of water changes depending on which state it is in (solid, liquid or gaseous)

5.  The fourth state of water, if we can call it that, would be a charged water dielectric.

6.  Considering 5, lightning is this dielectric breakdown.

7.  The star in a jar as it is known is a plasmoid formed by acoustics creating vibrations to a single bubble of air.

8.  Considering 7, I would think a nano pulse from 15kv+ to 15kv-  (30kv peak to peak) would be needed :-\

Just thinking allowed here ;)

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
I purchased Moray King's book "Tapping the Zero Point Energy" when it first came out in 1989. It is basically a compilation of his earlier papers dating back to the 1970's and later. I found it had many interesting chapters.

 Later that year I had the opportunity to meet with Moray at a symposium where he was a speaker. I tried, after his presentation, when he was "milling around" to explore further with him some of the concepts which were interesting to me, but he seemed to be aloof and not very communicative, so I dropped it and ended the one sided "conversation".

I still refer to that book and also have some of his later books which seem to rehash some of the same themes.

He is no doubt an interesting guy, and presents some neat ideas for experimentation.

Hopefully his new "Water" book also has some meat to sink our teeth into, I will trust Smudge's opinion on that.

As far as water injection, Brad might be interested in the "Fischer Cycle"engines, but are they vaporware? pun intended.

Regards


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Dr. Gerald Pollack explains water has a forth phase and claims it's free energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-T7tCMUDXU


Marcia Barbosa (TED talk) explains water accelerates going through Nano tubes or just if there's more water volume.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OLFwkfPxCg


Cheers
Luc
   

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Yes indeed, excellent research so far.

Additional info here at the Water as Fuel website.

I believe some of you already have nearly
figured it out.  Many breakthroughs do tend to
be simple to comprehend and fairly easy to
duplicate.


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After a nights sleep and with regard to this video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCZLQD4IgQ0

I'm 99% certain that the engine is running on a mixture of " atomised " Petrol and water closely related to the PDF pictures I posted a couple of pages back.

Brad has also mentioned that Petrol " mists " just as easily as water using a " fogger " and as it floats upon the water the two will be carried into the combustion chamber.

I'm wondering, like Brad, if the engine hasn't got the strength to " pull the skin off a rice pudding " ? A load applied would verify this aspect.

Following muDped's link posted this morning it was pointed out that " flash steam " if admitted into a cold cylinder can actually condense so quickly as to be ineffective. I'm wondering if that is what was happening in the video where the demonstrator needed help to readjust the settings, presumably the engine was warming up?

A " busmen's " holiday awaits, eh Brad?   ;)

Cheers Graham.


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 author=Grumage link=topic=3460.msg74918#msg74918 date=1559305769]
Quote
After a nights sleep and with regard to this video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCZLQD4IgQ0

Hi Graham

Quote
I'm 99% certain that the engine is running on a mixture of " atomised " Petrol and water closely related to the PDF pictures I posted a couple of pages back.

I have watched the video about 10 times now,and in full screen.
The video is of low quality,and some things are hard to make out .
But what i do know is that the electronics board they showed(which i identified)is only a 5 volt board,and not 24 volts as they claim. It is also just a DC power supply,and is not an ultrasonic driver board.
It also has a power output rating of only 5 watts,which is also not enough to drive an ultrasonic unit.

Quote
Brad has also mentioned that Petrol " mists " just as easily as water using a " fogger " and as it floats upon the water the two will be carried into the combustion chamber.

Yes,i did say that the fogger unit will atomise gasoline--no problem there.
What i do not know is what will happen when both water and gasoline are placed in the fogger unit,as i have not tried it yet. I believe that the water will not be atomised until the gasoline has been depleted,so the two will not atomise together. But we will know for sure by tomorrow evening  O0

Quote
I'm wondering, like Brad, if the engine hasn't got the strength to " pull the skin off a rice pudding " ? A load applied would verify this aspect.

Im smelling a rat with this one.
So far we know what the electronic board is,and it is not what they say it is--strike 1

Then,after watching the video many times,it seems to me that there manual air inlet valve(the chopped up T piece) seems to be closed while running the second test--strike 2

And as you know,i spent a fair bit of time making the gasoline vapour setup i tested,and even using gate valves that could be very finely adjusted,it still took me a good 10 minutes to get the mixture just right,so as the motor would run quite smooth. This guy is twisting a very !non accurate! valve (the cut away T piece),and his engine starts right up,and runs very smooth. So thats is a strike 3 for me.

Now,the pipe plumbing they have going on there dose not make much sense to me.
To the average joe,it may look like it should,but i wonder if anyone will see/note what i did about that maze of PVC pipes and boxes. Strike 4 for me there.

And then there is the watt meter showing 282mA.
The bloke in the video says that particular unit uses 282mA @ 24v.
But,that watt meter is plugged into mains,not 24 volts,and so is using 282mA @ 110v(assuming it's in America)
That is 31 watts of power,and not 6.76 watts as he claims.= strike 5.
So either he is being very deceptive,or there is something else going on there some where.

Things are just not adding up here.

Quote
Following muDped's link posted this morning it was pointed out that " flash steam " if admitted into a cold cylinder can actually condense so quickly as to be ineffective. I'm wondering if that is what was happening in the video where the demonstrator needed help to readjust the settings, presumably the engine was warming up?

Well you would be the man to answer this one Graham,as im guessing that you must have had something to do with steam engines in the past ?
What happens when you inject steam into a cold cylinder?.

I would think that when you inject water vapour into a volume of hot air,that is some what close to 500-600*C,it would turn to steam. The pressure would increase,and push the piston down.As the piston is pushed down the bore,and the pressure drops rapidly,the steam would once again condense to water droplets,but i would think that would be after it provided useful work. I don't know,as i have not made it that far yet.

Quote
A " busmen's " holiday awaits, eh Brad?   ;)

Not sure what you mean there Grum ?.
Are you referring to the big bus trip H2G are taking all those people on ?.


Brad


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As far as water injection, Brad might be interested in the "Fischer Cycle"engines, but are they vaporware? pun intended.

Regards

Hi ION

Well i had never heard of that one before,and another Aussie invention  O0

So i found this page explaining the operation of said engine.

http://rexresearch.com/fischer/fischer.htm

An interesting idea,but 3100 psig at 700*F  :o
It would only take one small mistake,and it's hello 6 foot hole in the ground.
At those pressures and temperatures,you would cut limbs off with a burst hose.
And if the boiler ever went bang--game over.

I think i might give that one a miss,as interesting as it sound's.
And beside's,i do not have anything that would stand up to those pressures.


Brad


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Hi Brad.

The board could simply be " eye candy " couldn't it? The 31 Watts is reasonable for some " fogger's " as they vary upon size.

The 5 mL of petrol spread across the 450mL of water would be literally a thin film and I think easily atomised, but we shall see, thanks to you.   O0

The first steam engines from the likes of Savery, Newcomen, and Watt were all " atmospheric " by injection of steam into a cold cylinder. Watt improved the efficiency by inventing the " separate condensor " where the steam condensed in a " cold " chamber allowing the cylinder to remain warm all the time.

A " Busman's holiday " sorry about the earlier typo....

Simply means a person having a holiday/vacation but doing virtually the same thing as though at work!   :)

Have a great holiday Brad....  O0


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It's turtles all the way down
Hi ION

Well i had never heard of that one before,and another Aussie invention  O0

So i found this page explaining the operation of said engine.

http://rexresearch.com/fischer/fischer.htm

An interesting idea,but 3100 psig at 700*F  :o
It would only take one small mistake,and it's hello 6 foot hole in the ground.
At those pressures and temperatures,you would cut limbs off with a burst hose.
And if the boiler ever went bang--game over.

I think i might give that one a miss,as interesting as it sound's.
And beside's,i do not have anything that would stand up to those pressures.


Brad

Thing about it is there is no large external boiler, water is super heated inside a tiny chamber that is part of the injector assembly, which then opens and flashes the liquid to steam in the cylinder AFAIK, or at least that's how Dennis Lee reported it to work at one of his demo's.



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Graham
Quote:
Brad has also mentioned that Petrol " mists " just as easily as water using a " fogger " and as it floats upon the water the two will be carried into the combustion chamber.

I expect the petrol will form a film around the water droplet, a perfect distribution.

If the intake valve opens after a vacuum has been created within the cylinder (25% of downstroke!!!!) at 20ºc the vapor will flash boil along with that petrol film, just maybe you apply the plasma at near BDC.  That star in a jar just might be many stars 8)

Again thinking aloud to inspire others ;)

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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The thing I find most interesting in that patent application US2012/0186557A1 is Figure 4 and the description given beginning at para 0049.  He say this breaks the covalent bond between hydrogen and oxygen in the mist particles to separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen.  IMO that really is turning the water mist into a fuel.  (He also says this achieves the protonation and or proton spin of the water particles, whatever that means.)  It appears the process goes on over the full downstroke thus requiring the spark plug to repeatedly fire during that stroke.  It seems Brad could be busy for some time if he tries out different mist conditioning regimes.
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The thing I find most interesting in that patent application US2012/0186557A1 is Figure 4 and the description given beginning at para 0049.  He say this breaks the covalent bond between hydrogen and oxygen in the mist particles to separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen.  IMO that really is turning the water mist into a fuel.  (He also says this achieves the protonation and or proton spin of the water particles, whatever that means.)  It appears the process goes on over the full downstroke thus requiring the spark plug to repeatedly fire during that stroke.  It seems Brad could be busy for some time if he tries out different mist conditioning regimes.
Smudge

Since i have been fooling around with those foggers,i have always thought about passing the fog between two highly charged plates.
Not sure why,or what that would do,but just a thought i had.


Brad


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Graham
Quote:
Brad has also mentioned that Petrol " mists " just as easily as water using a " fogger " and as it floats upon the water the two will be carried into the combustion chamber.

I expect the petrol will form a film around the water droplet, a perfect distribution.

If the intake valve opens after a vacuum has been created within the cylinder (25% of downstroke!!!!) at 20ºc the vapor will flash boil along with that petrol film, just maybe you apply the plasma at near BDC.  That star in a jar just might be many stars 8)

Again thinking aloud to inspire others ;)

Regards

Mike 8)

Thanks Mike.   O0

My thought processes run slow these days but....

He measured a very " specific " amount of water and not just ordinary tap water. If I remember correctly the fogger's don't take kindly to Chlorine and the other chemicals that can be present in our domestic water.

Perhaps they found that there's a " critical " depth where the water and Petrol will " mist " together?

Following from Brad's previous post, didn't TK perform some test, with video, on water droplets with HV? I remember mentioning " fogger's " to him not long after.

Cheers Graham.


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I was chatting with Evolvingape ( Rob ) last night.

He recommended one of these for use as a " Plasma " arc generator.



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Ok,so here is how it went today.

First i tried just bottled water in the fogger--no problem there.
Then i tried just gasoline in the fogger--no problem there.
Then i added 50ml of gasoline to about 150ml of water,and no fog at all-nothing.
So then i drained that mix,and added 100 odd ml of water,and about 3ml of gasoline,and there was fog.
It did smell slightly of gasoline,so i decided to try and light the fog with my gas torch,but no go.
In fact,the fog retarded the hot flame of the gas torch,like it was trying to blow it out.

Video uploading ATM,and i will post it as soon as it's done.

There is another video to come after that one  :D
Just some fun with the gasoline fog  ;D


Brad.


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Gasoline/water fogger results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAJCFJHAAok


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