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Author Topic: partzmans board ATL  (Read 36278 times)
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img  muDped
Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #250 on: 2021-11-15, 19:29:18 »

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Quote from: Partzman
I am currently ceasing my efforts in FE research as my conclusion after much scrutiny in all my work, is there is really nothing there.

Quite a few of us have come to that same conclusion over the years.

While Free Energy of the Anomalous Type is certainly real, what is enigmatically mysterious about it is the "How to" to make it manifest to perform work.

One thing is certain though:  What you have given to us here at OUR is educationally enlightening and thought stimulating.

You have accomplished much!

Welcome back!


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #251 on: 2021-11-15, 21:29:47 »
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Quote from: muDped on 2021-11-15, 19:29:18
Quite a few of us have come to that same conclusion over the years.

While Free Energy of the Anomalous Type is certainly real, what is enigmatically mysterious about it is the "How to" to make it manifest to perform work.

One thing is certain though:  What you have given to us here at OUR is educationally enlightening and thought stimulating.

You have accomplished much!

Welcome back!

muDped,

Thank you for your most kind comments!

Regards,
Pm
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #252 on: 2021-12-22, 17:45:25 »
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Originally, this thread was devoted to the study of ATLs or Asymmetrical Transmission Lines and for some reason I can't remember, I deleted all the original info.  Anyway, this is a re-boot of the ATL concept due to recent experimentation and info.  This will relate to SM's TPU but even though there is similarity, I will post to this thread for reasons which will become apparent.

So this post is a re-visit of one particular ATL that I demonstrated back in March of 2018. 

The following is the original post-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a test of a most basic asymmetrical transmission line that exhibits unusual characteristics when compared with a symmetrical tline. The device consists of a pvc core with copper foil adhered to it's surface forming an incomplete loop which is used a ground plane. A toroidal winding is then wound over this ground plane forming the asymmetrical tline. A pix of the device tested and the schematic is seen below. The first scope pix shows the input current which is in-phase with the input pulse. The second scope shot shows the output current as being out-of-phase with the input pulse. IOW, conventional current is flowing into both connections of the toroidal winding L1 at any given time. This is in contrast with a symmetrical tline in that the output current is in-phase with the input current under the same test conditions. Also, the rms output current measures slightly higher than the input and will always measure this way in various configurations of the same concept. The last scope pix shows the foil ground plane current which is ~2x the input current and in-phase.

Pm
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #253 on: 2021-12-24, 19:53:42 »
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Thanks pm... I follow your work with interest.
Merry Christmas to you  and to all!
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #254 on: 2021-12-30, 00:22:24 »
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Thanks Steve,

OK, to continue on.  This is another re-post from the previous thread data on an equivalent simulation of the previous bench ATL but with some additions and changes.  The following was the original text but has some changes as noted.

"I have attached a sim below that is fairly accurate even though it is only a 4 segment model of the asymmetrical tline. It shows the correct current directions and similar magnitudes plus also shows the dielectric voltage level at the location on the toroid that is exactly opposite the start and finish of the toroidal winding. This is the point where the opposite currents meet in the winding, sum, and then pass thru to the underlying foil ground plane. This voltage was measured with a center tap on the winding by placing a small 1" x 1.5" copper foil sensor on the inside of the winding and should be equal to a tap measured on the winding at the same point as is the sim. I've included a scope pix for comparison. It would seem to me that the 2x current returning to ground from the foil plane could be looped to the input and possibly create a self running device. If a resistor of 300 600 ohms (which is close to the tline impedance) is placed in the foil ground return, the current levels are all reduced but the ~2x output/input current relation still exists."

In a subsequent post, I stated the following-

"My statement highlighted above is incorrect and misleading so it needs correcting. In reality, there exists a current standing wave of one wavelength as shown in the attachment below when the input frequency's period is equal to the Atline's td. This creates the opposing currents in the winding and a current null directly opposite to the winding start and finish. This null point is also where the peak of the 180 90 degree out-of-phase voltage wave exists. The opposing currents do sum across the entire length of the Atline to the ground plane resulting in the ~2x current from the foil to ground. One interesting thing I learned from the simulation is the amount of loss thru the skin effect of the solid wire used in the winding at 863kHz. The dc resistance of the actual winding is 2 ohms but the sim needed a total resistance of 32.4 ohms for L2-L5 in order for the currents and voltages to come into line. Obviously litz wire would improve the overall Q and this will be done if the device proves to have any merit."

The data below shows the various plot measurements and it should be pointed out that the sine input voltage is 5v peak.

Regards,
Pm
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #255 on: 2021-12-30, 11:46:20 »

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Hi Jon,

I hope you had a good Christmas.

 The similarities to the TPU are quite evident, except the "transmission line in the TPU is made up into a delay line which gives multiple waves of the same frequency, see attached, this is not an artifact of the scope, it is real.

Also noted is the high voltage within the line, the below shot is with just an input of 5v from the signal generator, so low current as well, but the amplitude is 12 fold higher than the input.

As you have drawn the capacitance from the solenoid to the ground "plane" is of course a progressive variance around the toroid, or is it!!!!!!!  In the STEAP TPU there are 3 solenoids wound over the top of each other, this creates the variable capacitance to the ground, and the way the solenoids are connected forms the delay line.

I come back to one thing that I can't get out of my head, and that is all energy has to come from somewhere, so where does the energy come from in the TPU!!!! The only answer for me is the ambient charge of very high voltage but low current at any one time (24hrs a day, we are swimming in it). The TPU is a type of mixing transformer, but instead of coils around a ferromagnetic core, the TPU uses the ionic field through the center of the coils, they are not only coils but one plate of a capacitor, the other being what you call a ground plane (it is a capacitor as is the Earth to Ionosphere, a capacitor).

This Earth capacitor is an AC capacitor running at around 7.83Hz (tuning is important on the day of running) and its 6.50Hz harmonics all around us, now what happens if we put a charged capacitor inside another charged capacitor, their charges are going to mix if they were DC, but here, in this case, they are not DC but AC.  ELF frequencies are very difficult to deal with, so we deal with higher frequencies at harmonics levels (TWO) but with the difference of the ELF frequency, voila, we have our BEAT frequency (7.83Hz or thereabout) and it is relatively stable because the higher frequencies are more stable than the lower one.

Capture, mix and extract, extracting is all down to timing (a switch running at 3 times the first frequency+-).

We will have to meet up again on a video link. I have been building another TPU the same as the other "which I have securely hidden this time". The new one has been under test just at it's resonant frequency and driven with an SG at 5v PP, so as to produce the correct waves which can be seen on the scope, I am trying to document what is going on inside the TPU without powering it up.

Regards

Mike 8)



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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #256 on: 2022-01-04, 18:44:47 »
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Quote from: Centraflow on 2021-12-30, 11:46:20
Hi Jon,

I hope you had a good Christmas.

 The similarities to the TPU are quite evident, except the "transmission line in the TPU is made up into a delay line which gives multiple waves of the same frequency, see attached, this is not an artifact of the scope, it is real.

Also noted is the high voltage within the line, the below shot is with just an input of 5v from the signal generator, so low current as well, but the amplitude is 12 fold higher than the input.

As you have drawn the capacitance from the solenoid to the ground "plane" is of course a progressive variance around the toroid, or is it!!!!!!!  In the STEAP TPU there are 3 solenoids wound over the top of each other, this creates the variable capacitance to the ground, and the way the solenoids are connected forms the delay line.

I come back to one thing that I can't get out of my head, and that is all energy has to come from somewhere, so where does the energy come from in the TPU!!!! The only answer for me is the ambient charge of very high voltage but low current at any one time (24hrs a day, we are swimming in it). The TPU is a type of mixing transformer, but instead of coils around a ferromagnetic core, the TPU uses the ionic field through the center of the coils, they are not only coils but one plate of a capacitor, the other being what you call a ground plane (it is a capacitor as is the Earth to Ionosphere, a capacitor).

This Earth capacitor is an AC capacitor running at around 7.83Hz (tuning is important on the day of running) and its 6.50Hz harmonics all around us, now what happens if we put a charged capacitor inside another charged capacitor, their charges are going to mix if they were DC, but here, in this case, they are not DC but AC.  ELF frequencies are very difficult to deal with, so we deal with higher frequencies at harmonics levels (TWO) but with the difference of the ELF frequency, voila, we have our BEAT frequency (7.83Hz or thereabout) and it is relatively stable because the higher frequencies are more stable than the lower one.

Capture, mix and extract, extracting is all down to timing (a switch running at 3 times the first frequency+-).

We will have to meet up again on a video link. I have been building another TPU the same as the other "which I have securely hidden this time". The new one has been under test just at it's resonant frequency and driven with an SG at 5v PP, so as to produce the correct waves which can be seen on the scope, I am trying to document what is going on inside the TPU without powering it up.

Regards

Mike 8)

Hi Mike,

Sorry for the delay.  Too much holiday stuff to attend to!

You have me wondering if one could possibly use or manipulate the plasma generated in a common fluorescent lamp along with capacitance from attached foils.  Over wound coils then to move or modulated the plasma?  Just thinking out loud.

I think another video link would be a good idea and perhaps include Itsu.

Regards,
Jon
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #257 on: 2022-01-04, 19:35:20 »

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Quote from: partzman on 2022-01-04, 18:44:47
Hi Mike,

Sorry for the delay.  Too much holiday stuff to attend to!

You have me wondering if one could possibly use or manipulate the plasma generated in a common fluorescent lamp along with capacitance from attached foils.  Over wound coils then to move or modulated the plasma?  Just thinking out loud.

I think another video link would be a good idea and perhaps include Itsu.

Regards,
Jon

Hi Jon

I don't think it would work, there is no quick fix, and I will explain why.

The loop core "insulated" is one plate of our unique capacitor, the other is our solenoid over the top. Now both can be insulated or only one, it is on the insulation the plasma forms, it is not a break-through discharge but an extraction of electrons which transform into ions at normal atmospheric pressure. When you deplete electrons, be it just one electron or many, more electrons are searched for to replace them, this is when electrons are extracted from the ambient. There is a need for three conducting mediums, the solenoids "one plate", the core loop "the other plate", and the plasma. Plasma is a superconductor, and in the TPU it is confined within the magnetic field of the solenoids.

In an FL tube, the conductors are at each end, it is not a capacitor. A DBD or cold plasma is in fact a capacitor, DBD's are used a lot in the industry to modify surfaces by this electron extraction. In a circuit, you model a DBD, or cold plasma, like a capacitor.

Will email you when I can find some dates, it is a bit busy here atm with my wife's work for the coming spring sales.

Regards

Mike 8)





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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #258 on: 2022-01-06, 17:57:18 »
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Well, I see that there is very little interest in the simulated ATL previously posted but I will continue on anyway.

Due to the fact that the basic ATL previously demonstrated could show an increase in foil current equal to 2x the input current, it seemed to me that this might be able to be utilized for gain.  Although there is another configuration where this ratio is considerably higher, we'll focus on this one for the time being.

The voltage at the foil when measured in reference to the circuit ground is quite small, so simply placing a load resistor at this point produces very little power.  The next thought was to place a voltage on the foil that would allow the current to produce an amount of usable power.  This is acceptable to the ATL due to the capacitance between the inductance and foil which allows any DC offset voltage within reason.  The problem with this arrangement is that the power averages to near zero due to the AC current symmetry.

So, the next thought was to supply a DC offset current to the foil that would produce an asymmetrical current to the DC voltage applied between the foil and circuit ground.  The sim below demonstrates this idea.

The input to this circuit is a 5v peak AC sine wave at 870kHz and is applied to one end of the grounded ATL as previously done.  V2 is a 100v DC source connected to the foil and I1 is 500ma DC current source also connected to the foil which is switched on at 40.23us in time.  This period is equal to 35 complete cycles of the input frequency.

As can be seen in the lower plot pane, the current I(V2) jumps from 511ma to 1015ma just after the 40.23us time period when the current source I1 is switched on.

This results in an average current in V2 of ~500ma from that point on with the resulting power being 2.9785mJ.   The input energy consumed during all this time is a mere V(Vin)*I(V3) = 58.648uW leaving us with a very large gain.

Wait!  We haven't accounted for the energy in the I1 current source.  With the voltage at Vcap or the foil being 100v DC, the I1 current source will have a loss due to this polarity of compliance voltage.  We see that this loss is -2.988mJ.  This leaves us with a COP<1.

Do you think there may be a possible solution or should we just take our lumps and move on?

Regards,
Pm

   
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #259 on: 2022-01-07, 11:06:30 »

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Hi Jon

Quote:
Do you think there may be a possible solution or should we just take our lumps and move on?
Unquote.

Yes, there is!

Each of the 2 inputs should be pulses from a constant current source (charge choke), and the second input (center tap) should be pulsing at twice the first input frequency, that's for starters ;)

Now look at these points:-

1.   Both chokes on the same core and have the same inductance, ie. CMC.
2.   The duty ON (charge) of the first choke should be such that the choke just reaches saturation, naturally that is also subject to frequency.
3.   The pulse frequency should be a sub-harmonic of the LC frequency of the solenoid and "ground plane" capacitance (reinforces natural resonance of the LC).
4.   The duty ON of the second choke should be marginally adjusted in relation to the first charge time, now think what this does to the resonant waves!!! Look at that scope shot I posted a few posts back, that's what you would get.
5.   For extraction of power you only want the positive part of the waves, the DC positive pulses (a lot of them over the time period), a diode permanently connected will stop the resonance! so you time (3rd harmonic with ON time only for the collection of the positive high pulses) a MOSFET to act as the diode to be ON to a collection capacitor just at the positive part of the cycles, yes the output is DC. The MOSFET will have to be high-side switching.
6.   What you collect is recycled back to the DC input to the chokes.
7.   You use the potential difference between the first input and the second input as your OUTPUT. (across the first half of the solenoid, it must be resistive ^-^).
 
It takes a dyslexic to understand another ;D  (Steven Mark).

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #260 on: 2022-01-07, 15:20:17 »
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Mike,

Thanks for your analysis and comments on a possible solution.  I have a few questions, but first I'll give it a go today and see what happens.

Thanks again.  O0

Jon
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #261 on: 2022-01-07, 17:01:54 »

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Hi Jon

Below is a shot of the TPU with the first and second harmonics, the second harmonic is 8Hz more than the harmonic because I am inputting sine waves ( no duty adjusting)as no chokes or MOSFETs are being used. Input for both is 5v. @ my TPU resonant frequency of 5.208MHz 1st harmonic.

The yellow trace is the 1st harmonic, the green the 2nd + 8Hz
The pink is the capacitance (coil to the ground core), note the high voltage.
The blue is only showing the "current to voltage phase" (blue is an uncalibrated homemade current sensor)

Regards

Mike 8)
« Last Edit: 2022-01-07, 18:34:21 by Centraflow »


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #262 on: 2022-01-09, 15:16:17 »
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Mike,

Well, in simulation I can see some of the waveforms that you describe but when the circuitry is loaded, the results are conservative.  This is not surprising because I have no means, to the best of my knowledge, to model either the plasma or the Schumann resonance effects on the circuit.

Anyway, thanks for the input and suggestions and after I'm through playing with the ATL sims, I may give a bench version of your TPU a try!

Regards,
Pm
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #263 on: 2022-01-09, 18:58:10 »

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Quote from: partzman on 2022-01-09, 15:16:17
Mike,

Well, in simulation I can see some of the waveforms that you describe but when the circuitry is loaded, the results are conservative.  This is not surprising because I have no means, to the best of my knowledge, to model either the plasma or the Schumann resonance effects on the circuit.

Anyway, thanks for the input and suggestions and after I'm through playing with the ATL sims, I may give a bench version of your TPU a try!

Regards,
Pm

Jon,

I would think it is a very difficult thing to simulate if not impossible. The capacitance is switched, it changes from series resonance (voltage amp) to parallel resonance (current amp) at around the 3rd harmonic, never switched to parallel (ground path) when the chokes are charging.

It is very difficult to explain, but I will send you a schematic to your email, maybe a bulb will light, excuse the pun I could not help it :)

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #264 on: 2022-01-09, 21:27:35 »
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Quote from: Centraflow on 2022-01-09, 18:58:10
Jon,

I would think it is a very difficult thing to simulate if not impossible. The capacitance is switched, it changes from series resonance (voltage amp) to parallel resonance (current amp) at around the 3rd harmonic, never switched to parallel (ground path) when the chokes are charging.

It is very difficult to explain, but I will send you a schematic to your email, maybe a bulb will light, excuse the pun I could not help it :)

Regards

Mike 8)

Mike,

I look forward to any additional info on your device!

Regards,
Jon
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #265 on: 2022-01-09, 22:16:35 »
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In my reply #252, I posted a pix of the ATL that is being simulated.  This particular device had the inductor wound over the ground plane foil however, there is no reason that an additional foil could not be wound over the inductor as well, thus providing two voltage isolated ground foils or planes.  This is a simple simulation of that configuration.  Assuming the outside foil is the same area as the inside foil, the distributed capacitances are equal as they are shown.  In this case, the operating frequency would be halved due to the tdelay being halved doubled however in this example, the operating frequency is kept the same at 870kHz as the single foil ATL.

As can be seen, the input current I(V2)=1.4517ma rms and each foil has an output current of 8.3443ma rms for a total current ratio of 2*.0083443/.0014517 = 11.5 .  The input power to produce these currents is a mere 28.7nJ .

What is interesting about this arrangement running at 2xfrequency as will be seen, is that the outputs remain somewhat independent of each other.  One may used for a master and the other a slave for example.

Regards,

Jon



« Last Edit: 2022-01-13, 17:27:50 by partzman »
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #266 on: 2022-01-15, 17:57:54 »
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At present, the ATL is not working out as I had planned so it will be put aside for the time being and I will return to my most current findings with the RLE research.

Regards,
Pm
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #267 on: 2022-01-15, 20:51:59 »
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All,

This is the latest development in utilization of the RLE.  I know most don't prefer simulations but classic EM can produce OU with proper circuit configurations, therefore sims can be a useful tool.

This example uses asymmetry of transformer windings to produce a gain along with RLE in a uniquely configured constant current transformer.  The switching is complex that connects windings in proper polarities to feedback energy accumulated in said windings back to the power supply.  To really understand the circuit's operation, one must learn the effects of the coupling or K factor on windings of any transformer.  In this example, the windings are equal and therefore the formulae on the schematic do apply.  IOW taking L3 and L4 that form the c/c inductor, if the windings are bucking the net inductance is 100mh and if the windings are aiding, the net inductance will be 300mh.  The same applies to L1 and L2.  Two windings are considered bucking when the currents in the windings are in opposition in reference to the dot convention when on a common core.

Furthermore, an explanation is required to understand the net energy in a bucking arrangement such as L3 and L4 when the starting currents are dissimilar such as 400ma and -200ma respectively.  There are two energy components to calculate and they are both 'buck' and 'aid'. 

With a k=.5 and equal inductance in both windings, the 'buck' energy is calculated by summing the magnitudes of both currents, dividing this sum by two and then square the result.  The new result is then multiplied times the buck inductance and divided by two in order to get the net 'buck' energy.  IOW,  Ubuck = (([IL3]+[IL4])/2)^2*Lbuck/2 .  In this case, Ubuck = ((.4+.2)/2)^2*.1/2 = 4.5mJ .

The 'aid' energy is calculated by taking the difference in the magnitudes of the winding currents, dividing this difference by two and then square the result.  The new result is then multiplied by the aid inductance and divided by two to acquire the net 'aid' energy.  IOW, Uaid = (([L3]-[L4])/2)^2*Laid/2 .  In this case Uaid = ((.4-.2)^2*.3/2 = 1.5mJ .  The total starting 'buck' and 'aid' energies in the L3/L4 c/c inductor is 6mJ .

The reason there is a differential of 200 ma in L3/L4 is to supply the 200ma starting bias in L2.  The starting bias in L1 is -200ma which means the L1/L2 transformer is in a 'buck' mode and the starting energy is therefore Ubuck = ((.2+.2)/2)^2*.005/2 = 100uJ .

The plot math shows the input energy V(vs)*I(V5) = -381.93uJ or IOW, the power supply V4 has received this amount of energy from the circuit.  L1 and L2 are for all practical purposes depleted at the end of the cycle at 24.685us .

The ending currents in L3 and L4 are 393.03ma and -206.6ma respectively.  This results in a 'buck' current of ([.39303]+[.2066])/2 = 299.8ma .   With a starting buck current of 300ma, this results in a 'buck' energy loss of
((.3^2)-(.2998^2))/2*.1 = 6uJ .

There is also a loss in the 'aid' energy mode.  The difference in the L3/L4 currents is [.39303]-[.2066])/2 = 93.23ma therefore, with a starting aid current of 100ma, the 'aid' current energy loss = ((.1^2)-(.09323^2))*.3/2 =196.23uJ .

The total energy lost is then 100uJ + 6uJ + 196.23uJ = 302.23uJ .   Therefore, the apparent COP = 381.93uJ/302.23uJ = 1.26 .

The little bit of gain seen here is the result of the asymmetry of the L1/L2 transformer.  The buck inductance is 5mh and the aid inductance is 15mh.  The starting energy in the buck mode is 100uJ as previously stated.  The maximum aid currents in L1/L2 occur at around the 12us period and equal 258ma at this point in time.  This represents an aid energy of .258^2*.015/2 = 499uJ .  This energy is then fed back to the power supply over time resulting in the overall negative input energy which is greater than all the other losses in the c/c inductor.

With this particular configuration, the overall energy gain efficiency is rather small.  Perhaps we can improve on this!

Regards,
Jon

 
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #268 on: 2022-01-16, 21:57:45 »
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In the previous post where the circuit shows a small gain, more explanation may be in order.  I have worked with similar simulations and bench devices and they all have one thing in common, they are open systems.  This is contrasted to closed systems that operate periodically and normally exhibit no gain on their own.

They are open by definition IMO because they all start with some amount and form of energy bias, end with some amount and form of energy bias and operate aperiodically.  Hopefully, the latter will be greater than the former.

There is no violation of the laws of conservation of energy but rather it is due to these laws that the devices operate with potential gain.  In the example above, the gain mechanism is actually a combined result of three of the circuit's characteristics.  First, the charging of the asymmetric inductance in L1/L2.  Second, the clever switching of L1/L2 and L3/L4 during the collapse of their fields back to the power supply and third, the use of the differential bucking inductive current source which operates more efficiently than a single inductive current source. 

If the net inductance of the current source is increased, the COP will increase.   If the k factor of the L3/L4 current source is increased, the differential current decreases and the COP increases but the overall output energy decreases.  If the k factor of L1/L2 is increased, the asymmetric aid to buck ratio increases and the COP will decrease but the output energy will increase.

There should be other possible forms of potential gain using constant current such as circuits with paramagnetic or diamagnetic materials and circuits with parametric capabilities.  It is interesting to me that nobody seems to be pursuing this avenue of OU!

Regards,
Jon
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #269 on: 2022-01-18, 15:56:07 »
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This is the same basic circuit as in post #267 but with a modification that changes the way L1 is connected to Vs or the power supply, and L2 is shorted after 10us resulting in an increase in L2's current.  The result is a higher COP.

The end of the cycle is at 15.045us and here we see that the currents on L3 and L4 are 393.1ma and -202.6ma -206.6ma respectively.  The sum and difference of the magnitudes are 599.7ma and 190.5ma 186.5ma respectively resulting in average currents of 299.85ma and 95.25ma 93.25ma after division by two.

The ending 'buck' energy loss is therefore (.300^2-.29985^2)*.1/2 = 4.5uJ .  The ending 'aid' energy loss is (.100^2-.09525^2)*.3/2 = 139.1uJ (.100^2-.09325^2)*.3/2 = 195.56uJ .

From the plot math we see the input energy is -5.177uJ .
 
At the end of the cycle we see the current in L2 is 388.65ma while the current in L1 is essentially zero.  The result is an ending energy in L2 of .38865^2*.005/2 = 377.6uJ .

The starting bias currents of -200ma and +200ma in L1 and L2 respectively result in a buck sum magnitude of 400ma with an average of 200ma.  The starting energy therefore is .2^2*.005/2 = 100uJ .

The total energy gain is 377.6uJ+[5.177uJ] = 382.77uJ and the total energy loss is 4.5uJ+139.1uJ+100uJ = 243.6uJ 4.5uJ+195.56uJ+100uJ = 300.06uJ.  The apparent COP = 382.77/243.6 = 1.57 382.77/300.06 = 1.28 .

Edit:  Note corrections.

Regards,
Jon     
« Last Edit: 2022-01-20, 19:45:01 by partzman »
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #270 on: 2022-01-18, 21:20:35 »
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Before going any farther, I think it would be good to prove some of the calculations I have been using as they may not be familiar to most.

The simulation below demonstrates the buck and aid inductance calculations dependent on the K factor in a transformer with two identical windings.   The formulae used are shown on the schematic and will be compared to the actual measurements done with a 100v pulse source over a 20us period.  The current will be measured at the end of the period and then L=E*dt/di will be used for the inductance calculation.

The K factor chosen for this test is .73 with each individual inductance being 25mH.  The resistance of the coil windings will be neglected.

For the L1/L2 aid winding arrangement, we see the ending current is 23.10523ma which equals and inductance of (100*20e-6)/.02310523 = 86.56mH .  Using the aid formula (1-(1-k)/2)*4Lpri we have (1-(1-.73)/2)*4*.025 = 86.5mH .

For the L1a/L2a buck winding, the ending current is 147.80251ma.  This equals and inductance of (100*20e-6)/.14780251 = 13.53mH .  Using the buck formula (1-k)*2Lpri we have (1-.73)*2*.025 = 13.5mH. 

The accuracy of the results fall within several tenths of a percent.

Regards,
Jon   
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #271 on: 2022-01-18, 22:50:32 »
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This is a sim proof for the energy contained in a 2x constant current inductor.  This would apply for any value of equal inductances and various K factors.

The first sim is a 25mh/25mh c/c inductor with a +- 100ma bias current in each winding L1 and L2.  The idea is to arrange these two windings in a configuration that will allow the total energy to be measured.  The plot math shows that Vc2 has reached a peak voltage level of 158v and the currents in L1/L2 at their crossing is essentially zero.  Therefore, the energy contained is 158^2*.01e-6/2 = 124.82uJ.  Since the buck inductance is 25mh, the calculated buck energy would be again as described previously (([IL1]+[IL2])/2)^2*.025/2 = 125uJ. 

The second sim shows the same arrangement with L1a/L2a only this time the bias currents are 200ma and -100ma for L1a and L2a respectively.  The plot math now shows that Vc2 has reached a peak of 237v and the currents are now 49.97ma in each winding at their crossover.  The two energies for this configuration are therefore 237^2*.01e-6/2 = 280.85uJ and .04997^2*.075/2 = 93.64uJ for a total of 374.45uJ .

The 'buck' energy for this c/c inductor is calculated using (([IL1a]+[IL2a])/2)^2*.025/2 which gives ((.2+.1)/2)^2*.025/2 = 281.25uJ .  The 'aid' energy (remember 75mh is the aid inductance with k=.5) is calculated using
(([IL1a]-[IL2a])/2)^2*.075/2 = ((.2-.1)/2)^2*.075/2 = 93.75uJ .  The total calculated energy is 281.25uJ + 93.75uJ = 375uJ .   
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #272 on: 2022-01-20, 19:54:26 »
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The sim in post #269 showed a corrected apparent COP = 1.28 however, several things were left out concerning the recovery of the energy levels at the end of one cycle.  This post will hopefully explain these recoveries for anyone wishing to attempt a bench replication.

The recovery of the 388.6ma in L2 is done by simply discharging this inductor back into the power supply with L1 disconnected.

The recovery of the L3/L4 current transformer back to the starting current levels is not quite as simple.  The sim below explains the best/easiest method to accomplish this.

What is more than likely not apparent to most is there is another method to accomplish RLE in a transformer other than a constant current load.  Oddly enough this would be a constant voltage load!  Take for example the L3/L3 transformer used in this example with a coupling or K factor = .5 .  I don't think it is necessary to prove it but basically the OCSV or open circuit secondary voltage will be K*Vpri or 1/2 the primary voltage in this case.  The voltage will be in phase relative to the dot polarities.  This is only true if both primary and secondary are equal. 

The SCSC or short circuit secondary current will be K*Ipri or 1/2 the primary current in this case and the currents will be 180 degree out of phase relative to the dot polarities.

What this means is that if we apply a 100v pulse to the primary of L3/L4 we will see a 50 pulse on the secondary neglecting the resistance of the windings.  If we have a negative bias current relative to the dot polarity of say 100ma in the secondary under these conditions, the current in the secondary will stay constant with a positive pulse applied to the non-dot primary terminal.  IOW, the primary current will not "see" the secondary just the same as if we had a constant current source connected to the secondary.

What happens when we have a fixed secondary that is higher or lower than K*Epri?  If lower, the secondary current will increase and if higher, the secondary current will decrease.  BTW, we should realize at this point that in the above example, the secondary current will be supplying energy to the fixed secondary supply.

With all that said, we now look at the attached sim which shows the recovery of the currents in the constant current transformer.  In this case, the ending currents in L3/L4 for the device in post #269 are 393.1ma and -206.6ma respectively.  This requires that we decrease the L4 current and increase the current in L3 to the starting levels or 400ma and-200ma.

In this case we use a 100v input pulse to the primary and a fixed 100v on the secondary with the correct polarity as shown in the left half of the schematic.  The bottom plot pane shows the results.  We see the primary ends with 400ma and the secondary ends at -198.5ma.  The input energy for the primary is -(-417.61uJ) = 417.61uJ.  The sign change is due to the default current direction in a voltage source in LtSpice.  The energy supplied to V2 is 212.97uJ for a net energy consumed in recovery of 417.61uj-212.97uJ = 204.64uJ .

The right half of the schematic merely shows the simplification of this process by using a common supply for both input and secondary.  Please note the polarity of the secondary.  In the top plot pane we see that the ending currents for the primary and secondary are 400ma and -199.4ma.  Slightly improved due to one supply source resistance and with an input energy of 206.41uJ . 

The corrected calculated energy loss for the L3/L4 inductor in post #269 was 200.06uJ being slightly less than this loss of 206.41uJ .  The new apparent COP would be 382.8uJ/306.41uJ = 1.25 .

Regards,
Jon     
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #273 on: 2022-01-21, 16:18:57 »
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Well, I hope nobody has spent any time of any of the previous RLE posts because there is an error.

The ".ic" or initial conditions statement should have the voltages at VL2 and VL3 set to 300v instead of zero.  This had the effect of creating a slight offset current in L1,L2 and L3 which favored the OU measurements.

I'm sorry to have unintentionally mislead anyone so I apologize.  I will be taking a break from this all research for a time.

Regards,
Jon
   
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Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #274 on: 2022-01-21, 18:59:42 »

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