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Author Topic: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor.  (Read 82989 times)

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Excellent! Looks pretty good. Double the print volume of mine, heated bed as well. Love the wifi onboard. I'll have to start digging for a dual extruder version.
   

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Buy me some coffee
Well i have been testing my drive coil,as has JimBoot i believe.
Seems our results are very similar,where we are getting either very large voltage spikes from the inductive kickback,or large current flow values when a heavy load is placed across the coil.

Our coils have only 200 turns,but the inductive kickback energy exceeds that of a coil of 400 turns plus-such as that of an SSG setup.

Maybe Jim can share his findings as well.

Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Well i have been testing my drive coil,as has JimBoot i believe.
Seems our results are very similar,where we are getting either very large voltage spikes from the inductive kickback,or large current flow values when a heavy load is placed across the coil.

Our coils have only 200 turns,but the inductive kickback energy exceeds that of a coil of 400 turns plus-such as that of an SSG setup.

Maybe Jim can share his findings as well.

Brad

I'm seeing consistent spikes of 700v and the power supply goes haywire at 7 volts. My coil is 200 turns but only 33mm neo core. Burnt the circuit out so rebuilding that. I suspect the pn100.  Edit: Placing a 16v 120000pf cap between +/- has it draw 1.2A, eliminate the spikes and speed up in a scary manner.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-04, 09:17:40 by JimBoot »
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
*Raises hand*

Have got an Anet A8  8)
I've had mine for about a year. Wait....am middle aged.....i've had mine for about a year and a half.
Give it a full 2 days to build it Brad. The Youtube instructions are really good, just pause and do. Some don't take the brown paper off that the parts ship in, but it looks far better in the gloss black.
For PLA, you don't need to heat the bed for each print. At your time of the year, the bloody thing would catch fire anyway if you did !
The weak points are the forward backwards of the bed all the time (oooerr missus) and the less than reliable power supply. Fix the bed wires by soldering the connections and using a good slightly flexible glue on the connections. Fix the power supply, by putting a 12V computer fan on its case. I've had no issues from either usual problem.
Try and keep the original tape on the bed for as long as possible, it seems to work best for adhesion of the print for the crucial first couple of layers. Am having adhesion troubles myself at the moment.

Software - all free
I use Tinkercad to design. It's easy, online and works:
https://www.tinkercad.com/
Thingiverse has a billion pre done 'things' that can be downloaded to print out.
https://www.thingiverse.com/
3D objects will be downloaded as .STL, so they need to be converted to .gcode for actual printing. I use CURA:
https://ultimaker.com/en/products/ultimaker-cura-software

Using 3D printable parts would ensure 100% replications were possible. I like the idea.
Speaking of which, Jim, do you have the STL for your coil form perchance ?
   


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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*Raises hand*



Using 3D printable parts would ensure 100% replications were possible. I like the idea.
Speaking of which, Jim, do you have the STL for your coil form perchance ?
 

Think I can probably share via tinkercad. Looks like uploading of stls is verboten. It's had a few mods and I think it still may need work around thread size. Have done about 6 test prints so far tweaking each time .
   

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Hey Mark,
I have setup a thingiverse account. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3334389 Apparently I have to wait 24 hours before it's published. Can always do a file transfer via skype too if you want or old school email :)  Or when logged in to tcad https://www.tinkercad.com/things/iDOajWO2B2y-non-sense-rotor-poles-20mm
   

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Buy me some coffee
*Raises hand*

Have got an Anet A8  8)
I've had mine for about a year. Wait....am middle aged.....i've had mine for about a year and a half.
Give it a full 2 days to build it Brad. The Youtube instructions are really good, just pause and do. Some don't take the brown paper off that the parts ship in, but it looks far better in the gloss black.
For PLA, you don't need to heat the bed for each print. At your time of the year, the bloody thing would catch fire anyway if you did !
The weak points are the forward backwards of the bed all the time (oooerr missus) and the less than reliable power supply. Fix the bed wires by soldering the connections and using a good slightly flexible glue on the connections. Fix the power supply, by putting a 12V computer fan on its case. I've had no issues from either usual problem.
Try and keep the original tape on the bed for as long as possible, it seems to work best for adhesion of the print for the crucial first couple of layers. Am having adhesion troubles myself at the moment.

Software - all free
I use Tinkercad to design. It's easy, online and works:
https://www.tinkercad.com/
Thingiverse has a billion pre done 'things' that can be downloaded to print out.
https://www.thingiverse.com/
3D objects will be downloaded as .STL, so they need to be converted to .gcode for actual printing. I use CURA:
https://ultimaker.com/en/products/ultimaker-cura-software

Using 3D printable parts would ensure 100% replications were possible. I like the idea.
Speaking of which, Jim, do you have the STL for your coil form perchance ?
 

Yes,it looks like a good litle printer.

I was going to put a fan on the power supply,and upgrade the bed wiring--have been watching many reviews and upgrade videos on them.

And yes,once the final device has all been designed and works,it can be replicated easily.

I should have gotten one years ago,but never to late  O0.

Will be posting some interesting result here later tonight,on the drive coils performance.
Lets see it anyone can work this one out ???


Brad.


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Will be posting some interesting result here later tonight,on the drive coils performance.
Lets see it anyone can work this one out ???


Brad.

while we're waiting... :) I rebuilt the circuit. Here is a screenshot - I've put something arse backwards in this build as the spikes are all in the neg now. edit. added close up of wave with a cap. Last night it reduced the spikes considerably tonight it didn't. I was using a pn100 and are now using a 2222A in the circuit.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-05, 08:37:41 by JimBoot »
   

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Just uploaded a short vid showing the effect without the motor running. https://youtu.be/k6AaKOpFrnU (first from the new shed)
   
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  Nice video, Jim!   O0
Off to a good start.
   

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  Nice video, Jim!   O0
Off to a good start.
so nice to have a bench again :)
   

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Here's a shot of the wave in "self oscillation"  . Have tested with air coil and it does not do it. Have not tested with a mag core only to see if it's that or a combo of it and the iron.  So the 682 volt trough happens as the hall switch triggers. 6volts turns into over 600 across the coil, flipping domains in the iron PLA? Looking forward to Brad's findings. In stationery mode depending on where you hold the neo rotor, I get two diff waveforms. Both have troughs but one does not have the ringing as seen below .
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Thanks for the upload Jim, it got 404'd though.

Am wanting to try the ceramic type magnets to see if the same power supply rattling spikes are there.....that supply on the video above was flickering like a good 'un !
Got a livingroom window to finish putting in with the better weather, but after that i'll see about blowing up some input circuits.


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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The thingiverse link you’ll need to wait a few more hours, as it is my first upload so I’m sandboxed 24hrs

All my pn100s are still in the shipping container as gradually bring everything into the new shed. I’ve built a ferrocell over the drive coil and rotor. I suspect I won’t see anything unexpected, just want to have a look at it when it’s not running but oscillating
   

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Buy me some coffee
Here's a shot of the wave in "self oscillation"  . Have tested with air coil and it does not do it. Have not tested with a mag core only to see if it's that or a combo of it and the iron.  So the 682 volt trough happens as the hall switch triggers. 6volts turns into over 600 across the coil, flipping domains in the iron PLA? Looking forward to Brad's findings. In stationery mode depending on where you hold the neo rotor, I get two diff waveforms. Both have troughs but one does not have the ringing as seen below .

I would say so.
The field through the windings is being flipped very fast,and that results in a very high voltage across the coil.

I have been triggering mine with a transistor,and at a very low 2 volts from my power supply,i can blow out 240 volt neon's within seconds. It looks like lightning going on in those neon's,but this also results in transistor smoke as well  ;D

My video is uploading ATM--it is long,and will be boring to most.
It;s late due to being a tad warm over here--was still just on 50*C in the workshop at 4pm.
So did not start bench work and video until around 10pm last night. Once finished,it was to late to upload.

Will post link to video as soon as it has uploaded  O0


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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I would say so.
The field through the windings is being flipped very fast,and that results in a very high voltage across the coil.

I have been triggering mine with a transistor,and at a very low 2 volts from my power supply,i can blow out 240 volt neon's within seconds. It looks like lightning going on in those neon's,but this also results in transistor smoke as well  ;D

My video is uploading ATM--it is long,and will be boring to most.
It;s late due to being a tad warm over here--was still just on 50*C in the workshop at 4pm.
So did not start bench work and video until around 10pm last night. Once finished,it was to late to upload.

Will post link to video as soon as it has uploaded  O0


Brad

Excellent look forward to watching the whole thing through. Yes soo many transistors. Nice to know it's doing it to the neons as well :) In self oscillation I get 1khz in cycles but in motor on mode only 400hz . No load to move, SSD potential? My new shed was only a balmy 36 on our recent 42.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-06, 11:07:10 by JimBoot »
   

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The video on the coil testing so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyNCcnXbwdY


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Will watch the rest tmrw. Nice vid so far beautiful coil. Is that new wire? My pipe is solid and I’m not seeing any diff in  spikes by swapping coil polarity. Want to build some new coils now.
   

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Your video is very well done TinMan.  Your explanation is clear
and easy to follow as you go along.

Could we perhaps say that for purposes of driving your coil that
the Power Source is principally the Capacitor?  Then your Power
Supply is simply restoring charge to the Capacitor to replenish
energy dissipated during the Transistor On Time while the Coil
was being energized?

It seems that the Capacitor is in a sense isolating the Power
Supply from the heavy pulse current demand of the Coil when
the Transistor energizes it.

But then there is the very interesting fact that the measured
RMS currents in the two portions of your analysis are somewhat
different.  Hmmmm.  Wonder why that is?

The Inductive Kickback Pulse is apparently quite effective in
restoring Charge to the Capacitor also?

If, after having started your circuit, you turn off your Power Supply.
How long would the circuit continue to operate with just the Charge
remaining in the Capacitor?


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   

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Speaking of which, Jim, do you have the STL for your coil form perchance ?
 

I've printed my 6 poles now. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3334389

if someone designs a better version please share :)
   

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Your video is very well done TinMan.  Your explanation is clear
and easy to follow as you go along.

Could we perhaps say that for purposes of driving your coil that
the Power Source is principally the Capacitor?  Then your Power
Supply is simply restoring charge to the Capacitor to replenish
energy dissipated during the Transistor On Time while the Coil
was being energized?

It seems that the Capacitor is in a sense isolating the Power
Supply from the heavy pulse current demand of the Coil when
the Transistor energizes it.

But then there is the very interesting fact that the measured
RMS currents in the two portions of your analysis are somewhat
different.  Hmmmm.  Wonder why that is?

The Inductive Kickback Pulse is apparently quite effective in
restoring Charge to the Capacitor also?

If, after having started your circuit, you turn off your Power Supply.
How long would the circuit continue to operate with just the Charge
remaining in the Capacitor?

The circuit continues to run for about 20 seconds after the supply is removed.


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
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Posts: 4409


Buy me some coffee
I've printed my 6 poles now. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3334389

if someone designs a better version please share :)

Great job on the spools Jim.


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Great test vid Brad, enjoyed that, especially the swap over so the scope would have to be bull crapping twice!

So it looks like neo's are they way then, ok. How many need to be ordered?
Is it just 1 for the drive coil, then 4 ceramic types on the rotor, per build?


Am off to print Jim's spool design :)
 

Btw - USA TIP3055's are $2 minimum ($9.99 for 5) on Ebay, anyone got a cheap as chips alternative ? Can foresee some going pop.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-07, 02:01:22 by Slider2732 »


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
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Posts: 4409


Buy me some coffee
Great test vid Brad, enjoyed that, especially the swap over so the scope would have to be bull crapping twice!

So it looks like neo's are they way then, ok. How many need to be ordered?
Is it just 1 for the drive coil, then 4 ceramic types on the rotor, per build?


Am off to print Jim's spool design :)
 

Btw - USA TIP3055's are $2 minimum ($9.99 for 5) on Ebay, anyone got a cheap as chips alternative ? Can foresee some going pop.

I get my 3055s from ebay.
I buy a bulk lot of 20 for $11.00AU delivered.
Downside is that they come from china,so 3 to 4 weeks delivery time.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Group: Tinkerer
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*****

Posts: 1500
Great test vid Brad, enjoyed that, especially the swap over so the scope would have to be bull crapping twice!

So it looks like neo's are they way then, ok. How many need to be ordered?
Is it just 1 for the drive coil, then 4 ceramic types on the rotor, per build?


Am off to print Jim's spool design :)
 

Btw - USA TIP3055's are $2 minimum ($9.99 for 5) on Ebay, anyone got a cheap as chips alternative ? Can foresee some going pop.

If you want to adjust I think you should still be able to ungroup the stl in tinkercad.
   
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