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Author Topic: DISSOCIATION OF THE WATER MOLECULE  (Read 131350 times)
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i would like to ask your opinion on the Kanarev method of splitting water,

The irrepressible Patrick has an interesting paper here:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/P17.pdf
   

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Thanks for the link - the paper is most interesting.

Earlier the bubbles which can form between the
plates of an electrolyzer were discussed.  Here's
one man's report
on what he's observed and his
theory about what it is.  It is often beneficial to
re-read articles from the past in order to formulate
new insights.  Some of us need to do this very
often as those dreaded Senior Moments occur
more and more frequently... :o


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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As far as George Wiseman from Eagle Research is concerned, I would err on the side of caution. Some of the things he says immediately trigger alarm bells- remember he is a businessman out to sell his electrolysers.

I for one am not at all comfortable with his Electrically Expanded Water theory, but it is articles like this that really give me cause for concern:  http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/blog/browns-gas/browns-gas-transmutation/browns-gas-transmutation

Wiseman links to this Youtube video.  Make what you will of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI2G7EpgNJY

PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING: The above video contains scenes of Sterling Allen that intelligent and educated people might find upsetting.  ;)
   
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@Dumped
Quote
Earlier the bubbles which can form between the
plates of an electrolyzer were discussed.  Here's
one man's report on what he's observed and his
theory about what it is.

I think there is a great deal to consider and while the pseudosceptics would have us believe all the universe is bound to their opinion I believe there is still room for improvement. If we consider the electrolyte as a resistive media then we have problems because I have found that resistance is variable in the right context. The problem most sceptics have concerns ENERGY, not amps , not volts, not dielectrics nor conduction but ENERGY. In the right context a high rate of change of energy state can produce a travelling boundary condition which can travel over the surface of a standard resistor as well as through it. In which case all our wonderful formulas become a mute point and we must resort to electrostatics and wave theory.

It should come as no surprise that electrostatics and wave theory are the least understood areas of science and we can have conductors fail at any singular point or node where energy converges. In this case it does not seem so far fetched that similar effects might occur between two plates in an electrolyser because we know as a fact similar effects have been proven to occur in other media. Rather than dismiss everything outside the norm maybe we should revisit our theories to better understand what may be happening, who knows we might actually learn something.

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   

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Everyman decries immorality
Greetings all,

We must all realise that we are working from incomplete data sets, that being said some data sets are more incomplete than others. Accurate analysis of incomplete data sets is at best sketchy, however, correctly designed apparatus to gather required data is possible and currently in process globally concerning the subject topic.

Electrostatics and wave theory is crucial to understanding behaviour of complex fluids and phase change characteristics, and the potential for exploiting the stored energy available. Localised instantaneous power is key to exploiting overload situations in this context, pressure and temperature changes combined with fluid velocity characteristics being the focus of my research. The LFV is a primary device in my opinion for exploring these properties and understanding them practically.

RIM.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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evolvingape

Welcome to the forum.Your perspective is Quite refreshing !!
Thx
Chet


   
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@evolvingape

Yes welcome to the forum, I was always interested in wave theory as well which led me to research concerning the Soliton wave which then led to the Rogue wave. The Rogue wave was considered mythical and anyone who even mentioned the name was ridiculed by the sceptics. Then with advances in technology such as satellite based surface radar and GPS atmospheric buoys the truth became evident. Rogue waves are not only a fact but fairly common and waves from 25 to 30m in height have been recorded. It is interesting to note that even today most experts cannot agree where they may occur nor why.

To put this in perspective, nobody can agree on a phenomena which 99% of the population still believes does not exist, such is life.

Now if one were to find an electrical/mechanical equivalent to a rouge wave that would be very interesting.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   

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Everyman decries immorality
I do not know anything about a Soliton wave, or a Rogue wave, my data set is incomplete. Maybe I do know about said subjects and I don't realise I do as the terminology is different and therefore non relative to me. To be is to be related.

Your electromechanical analogy is appropriate and is a major focus of my attention. This is a very deep subject and one can get lost, so it is logical to offer a common denominator and for me this is rotational power systems. If you will allow me to indulge...

Energy -> Power -> Potential Energy -> Power -> Energy

In a rotational system the input side and the output side of the process are inverted, the process conversion losses are apparent at the beginning and the end to achieve similar units for measurement comparison. The true potential output of overunity, if any, is at the first stage of the output process which is power, and in a rotational system is manifest as RPM and Torque as measurable properties. To do work... is what I care about.

RIM.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
The rogue wave occurs from the heterodyning of 2 waves eclipsing each other. Correct speed, angle, pressure, and height are parameters that are necessary. The pressure can be intensified/modulated by sound also. And this all happens naturally and random. But the random is a count of every seventh wave for those that know the sea.


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Interesting,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodyne

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_system#Open_system

So how do we manipulate a fluid, in this case the water molecule, to release the energy previously stored during it's creation ?

How do we analyse such a system with respect to open and closed thermodynamic system theory ?

RIM.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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We're focusing on the incorrect topic,  forget about dissociation of water molecules,  focus on COMBINATION of water molecules!  That's is what's important!   :D


I was almost killed by a rogue wave in California.  I was body surfing when a huge wave developed and it slammed me down from like 10 feet, bent me in half like a twig (backwards) just about broke my back!.  Very scary!

EM
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
EM,

So it would seem you are a daredevil not only in your research, but in everyday life too!  :D

According to Gustav Flaubert, you should:

"Be regular and orderly in your life, so that you may be violent and original in your work".
   
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EM, I too am aware of the dangers of a rogue wave. A while back someone waving goodbye to their kid at the school gates got a bit over-exuberant and nearly took my eye out!  :)
   

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We're focusing on the incorrect topic,  forget about dissociation of water molecules,  focus on COMBINATION of water molecules!  That's is what's important!   :D

EM

To my mind we cannot separate the two sides of the system in that way, dissociation is just as important as recombination.

The HELP was designed to add the properties of fluid velocity and pressure to a dynamic electrolysis cell. The question then arose what to do with that fluid flow which is where HELIS came from, becoming the input to the HELT.

I thought I could further improve the system which is why the SEC came into existence, effectively removing the fluid velocity from the equation while maintaining the pressure.

The LFV designed to pulse and shape the recombination of the Hydrogen and the Oxygen creating a pressure wave that would then be compressed in the RotoMax.

The idea behind all this being that dissociation of the water molecule gives you a volatile fuel, the recombination creating a pressure wave that could then be used to violently impact the water molecule inside the rotor, hopefully causing further dissociation of unprocessed water.

Dissociation -> Spark -> Recombination -> Dissociation

There are different types of dissociation though, heat will cause phase change to steam (energetic water vapor gas) and therefore expansion. Electrolysis causing dissociation to H + O creating the potential for violent recombination.

HHO -> Spark -> Pressure Wave -> Steam Expansion

Steam gives us a static pressure head, hence the critical valve opening time of a dump valve to maximise power. HHO gives us a dynamic velocity head, creating a pressure wave, and can be triggered by a spark.

When we also move into Electrical territory and consider variables such as electrical resistance of the water molecule we do not know how that will change when exposed for a short time to an extremely violent environment. HELIS was designed to test for this by adding the variables velocity, pressure, expansion and contraction. It's a very complex subject and we need data, lot's of it.

RIM.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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That was 10 years ago, now I have more fun in the lab, not sure about original and violent work, but it's fun and orderly. Good advice there, however, danger wise, I'm probably safer swimming in the ocean with the sharks!  Lol
Just bought a kV transformer for some good al Tesla fun, and lifter experiments later on.

EM
« Last Edit: 2013-03-10, 05:25:55 by EMdevices »
   

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OK, I suppose, since we're on the topic of Rogue Waves
that it's time to add some new sizzle to the terminology.

Back in the "Old Navy" we had a segment of the organization
which was completely female.  Any ladies who wished to
become part of the Navy were within that segment and
were known as "Waves."

I shall leave it to you to come to your own understanding
of how delightful it was to encounter a Rogue Wave.

Sadly, female sailors in the new Navy are no longer Waves.


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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On a slightly more serious note, has anyone been watching the latest antics regarding a certain Jon Abel vs Mystic Murakami over on the 'dark side'?

All the guy claimed to have done was recreated Meyer-like resonance and be producing hydroxy very efficiently, and was simply posting his results. Of course, due to standing his ground and speaking his mind, he is now banned from EF by the quack, come charlatan, come scam artist that is Aaron Murakami.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/13512-new-stan-meyer-replication.html

   

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Everyman decries immorality
I noticed the argument, but do not know the history. I am interested in the subject supposedly under dispute though... Nitrogen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionized-air_glow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitriding

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2781-wood-gasification-4.html#post218210

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSXcV-r1Ifs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_plasma_thruster

http://www.overunity.com/11318/plasmics/msg303459/#msg303459

The potential for Nitrogen Plasma, easily and abundantly sourced from the atmosphere, to be used to create a secondary reaction in an engine is intriguing.

The idea behind the PRotoMax Plasma Repulsor is not dissimilar to the basic design of the Pulsed Plasma Thruster used in space craft propulsion. I replaced the solid fuel propellant with the design of the Linear Firing Valve, enabling the HHO blastwave (similar to the Marchlabs M13 operation) to travel through the plasma chamber and be injected into the engine. Interestingly you can see a note that water vapor plays a role in plasma when present, and the intended application for this repulsor is to split the water vapor molecules from a combination of ionic energy, in conjunction with momentary high pressure and temperature changes, and rapidly changing velocity's. It may also be possible to accelerate a water droplet in this manner similar to Pulsometer theory, providing relatively high mass (tennis ball) to absorb the energy and then slam it into the compression chamber of the rotor. That's some of the theory anyway...

RIM.



---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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On a slightly more serious note, has anyone been watching the latest antics regarding a certain Jon Abel vs Mystic Murakami over on the 'dark side'?

All the guy claimed to have done was recreated Meyer-like resonance and be producing hydroxy very efficiently, and was simply posting his results. Of course, due to standing his ground and speaking his mind, he is now banned from EF by the quack, come charlatan, come scam artist that is Aaron Murakami.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/13512-new-stan-meyer-replication.html


Well i guess that;s the end of me over at EF.
Couldnt agree more with ya Farah
   
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Yep, after that last post on EF, you will definitely be in his little red book of 'troublemakers' - you are likely on borrowed time there, Tinman.

The thing is you can never win an argument with Mystic Murakami because he will devote his life to twisting things, posting things out of context and manipulating posts and threads in order that he comes out smelling of roses... and then of course he bans you! On a personal note, I don't think I have ever detested anyone with quite as much passion as I do that slimy low-life.

Murakami claimed that Jon Abel's set up was not a Meyer replication because no nitrogen was involved. What a load of utter bollocks! There is no nitrogen involved in Meyer's early workbench WFC demonstration (a link to which I made a few posts back), and which, if Meyer is to be believed, is the very basis of everything that follows later.

It does make you wonder: who in their right mind would actually pay real money for the nonsense sci-fi/fantasy books written and peddled by this clueless idiot?  ???
   
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Yep, after that last post on EF, you will definitely be in his little red book of 'troublemakers' - you are likely on borrowed time there, Tinman.

The thing is you can never win an argument with Mystic Murakami because he will devote his life to twisting things, posting things out of context and manipulating posts and threads in order that he comes out smelling of roses... and then of course he bans you! On a personal note, I don't think I have ever detested anyone with quite as much passion as I do that slimy low-life.

Murakami claimed that Jon Abel's set up was not a Meyer replication because no nitrogen was involved. What a load of utter bollocks! There is no nitrogen involved in Meyer's early workbench WFC demonstration (a link to which I made a few posts back), and which, if Meyer is to be believed, is the very basis of everything that follows later.

It does make you wonder: who in their right mind would actually pay real money for the nonsense sci-fi/fantasy books written and peddled by this clueless idiot?  ???
Well borrowed time or not,i say what i  think.
I took the time to read the whole post,and could see exactly what the outcome was going to be befor i got to the end.
To kick some one off a forum just because they didnt agree with him-is just a sign of cowardness,and a total abuse of power.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Aaron has one of the biggest ego's I've ever encountered.

The trouble is, he has nothing to back that huge ego up with.

I've had my run-ins with him as well, a number of years ago. End result was, I stopped posting there (self-banning), then they deleted my account.

@ Ramset/tinman, tell Jon he is welcome here if he so desires to join OUR.
   
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@ Ramset/tinman, tell Jon he is welcome here if he so desires to join OUR.
Not sure how to get intouch with him now that he has been baned ?
He would be welcome over at IAEC aswell.
Maybe Chet know's how to get intouch with him?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Try sending him a PM at EF. That should still be enabled if he is on read-only.
   
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This is his email:  jonabel1971@gmail.com
   
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