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Author Topic: DISSOCIATION OF THE WATER MOLECULE  (Read 131354 times)
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I have email him.
It would be good to have another hydroxy person aboard,as i am about to give my new setup it's first run tomorrow.
Im looking to get a 35 to 40% increase in fuel efficiency to start with,then start trying some add on's to the system.
I have already made 25%,and that was with a realy shabby cell.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
OK,

I have pre-registered Jon using the email Farah supplied.
   
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Welcome to the forum
We have some excellent measurement Men here as well as some good test protocol for your Gene Gene Settup.
When I get home later I will see if I can get that for you !

Thx for sharing your work !

Chet
   
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Nah
I was just winged ,Merely a flesh wound!!Your a pretty feisty fellow!!  O0
I have some work I'm trying to finish ATM...

Later
Chet
   
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Amazing work you have done there !!

Here is a brief How to On your Genegene measurement technique!
We have a moderator here ION ,he has a fixed loss to ambient protocol !

get your self a fairly large card board box  a killowatt meter and two thermometers .put the whole set up inside the box,hook it up to a watt meter ,note the  temp inside the box and out side the box.
plug it in.

Run the device until the temp in the box will no longer rise against ambient loss ,note that temp,it is your "mark"
now repeat the same test with the bulbs plugged  directly into the mains [via the watt meter]

if you come even close to the same temp [loss to ambient] at 1/4 the input.
do the happy dance...........

Any questions?

thx
Chet
   

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The discussion which Jon began at EF goes on
without him.


It is very healthy to see that some members are
taking issue with Erron over the way he conducted
himself.

Erron's efforts at after-the-fact-damage-control
seem to be arousing suspicion.


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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Jonabel,
Welcome ,there sure is a lot of previous controversy about you  as there always will be with any kind of "claim" percieved or otherwise and im sure that the best way foward here is to post the specifics and some here ,perhaps myself included may replicate ,if that is your intention.
I did try to find specifics but could not be sure which was your s and which was reference material .

so many times somebody post some real info and it is reposted to make it clearer ,only to introduce another error and so on ..and so on .

Can I ask that you start here from scratch and post the specifics very carefully ,and be sure there are no errors .We will see if this crew  can keep the childish /personal stuff out of the equasion.

There are many experienced and talented people here and as long as your system is not in the "way too hard to make basket" I'm pretty sure that colaberation will follow . If not,  you will know did your best

Here's hoping for a new start

Lindsay
   

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Buy me some coffee
Welcome jonabel1971

I have also set you up your own bench area where you can moderate your own stuff, we tend to use the workbench area for documenting our own builds and various personal stuff.

The Bench Boards can be found on the home page at botton of the page.

Peter
   
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Hi Jon, welcome

I just looked at some of your videos and read the account at PESN   

http://pesn.com/2012/06/18/9602112_Volunteer_Jon_Abel_banned_from_NDSU_for_Stanley_Meyers_lab_research/


very interesting.  it should serve as a lesson to others.  Don't deal with universities, they don't operate like we might imagine.  It is tempting to try and get that validation from some professor, and a kind professor can always be found, however by far, most are driven by reputation, publications, and research money.  You impact the money flow and you're out.    Research universities are supported by tuition, yes, but more so by research grants from wealthy corporations, and state funds, and they have to keep up a certain reputation.   Plus the Professors don't want to tarnish the reputation of their institution or it will hurt their pocket book in the end.  Lots of politics going on at the University, I would steer clear of any involvement with them.  We have our professor here who can tell you his story.

Besides, you can do this research in your garage, just make sure you have ample ventilation, or you'll blow yourself up like that guy in California.

EM
   
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...Don't deal with universities, they don't operate like we might imagine.  ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz0bC_4_xLo[/youtube]
   
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I see Mystic Murakami has 'unbanned' Jon. Perhaps Aaron has finally realised just what a silly boy he has been  - guess there's a first time for everything.

For anyone that was following that debacle over at EF, the whole issue seemed to revolve around Murakami's insistence that Nitrogen featured heavily in Meyer's WFC work and indeed was the key to running his buggy on just water.

Well, if anyone has ever seen or read Meyer's technical brief:

The Birth of New Technology
WATER FUEL CELL
Technical Brief

HYDROGEN FRACTURING PROCESS
by Stanley A. Meyers

You will know that Meyer never once, ever, mentions Nitrogen. He talks about re-circulating exhaust gases and the use of non-combustible gases in ambient air, but he never talks specifically of Nitrogen gas. But this aside, the key thing is that Meyer states he basically uses the non-combustible gases in air and the exhaust simply to dilute the Hydroxy gas in order to slow the burn rate down to that of gasoline. Nowhere does he talk about ionising Nitrogen or using Nitrogen to create another fuel, which is what Murakami is alluding to.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5247-ionization-water-fuel-26.html

Murakami claims that in order for Hydrogen to be of any use, it first has to be reacted with Nitrogen to form a less explosive gas, Ammonia (NH3).  His argument was the quantity of Hydrogen produced was not so important, the important thing was the formation of Ammonia.  The key flaw in this argument was that the production of Ammonia would be directly related to the production of Hydrogen - something that Murakami either couldn't seem to get his head around or chose to overlook. Either way it illustrates his lack of understanding and failings in his education. Another reason stated by my old sparring partner, Mike J. Nunnerley, that Hydroxy could not be used in an ICE was that as it contained atomic Hydrogen, and that this tiny atom would slip past the piston rings into the sump so not only be ineffective, but eventually blowing up the engine.  However, aside from the fact that atomic hydrogen is actually volumetrically larger than in molecular form, all gas molecules take up the same space at any given temperature or pressure, so this is nonsense and a non-issue.

The details are so important, and more often than not the science in the details is the key - make or break.  But all too often the details are conveniently overlooked or worse still, totally ignored.
 
So, in a nutshell, Jon was correct in what he was saying whilst Murakami was blatantly wrong. But most of us here have been banned from EF by Murakami so we already know he has his own agenda... and it has more to do with FREE Money than Free Energy. He is a total disgrace to his forum and the Free Energy movement he purports to champion. 
   
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Farrah
let me ask you a question?

Do you ever feel it would be possible for us as a group to comply with certain standards?
could you ever perceive a fresh start,a line in the sand where we would just proceed towards a common goal?

sometimes your comments hit me where It hurts .....and I am not even speaking of comments to me!!

I am not a woose or timid man,however the comments you made to Centraflow about his son brought some tears to my eyes.

I can abide differences  amongst us ,I can feel the passion of science and the long held opinions about Meyers or Puharich or the price of tea in China.

Can we put a line in the sand when it comes to family or credentials or things that ultimately have little baring on the "work"?
if the work is off the mark ,point that out the way 99 or ION do,maybe we post a link to certain areas that cover measurement issues?and misinterpretations of science at "profound levels "??

a group hug is out of the question...however this rock we stand on and our time allotted here does not wait for us ....

Tick toc tick toc.........

------------
The other thing is we don't have many chemists among us.........[Girls Neither]

?
Thx
Chet
   
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz0bC_4_xLo[/youtube]

Abstract:
A speech, a vague theory outside of the physics, a prophet criticizing the academic knowledge, theorizing without predicting the least new fact, saying the good words and selling books at a high price.
Nothing else here.

   
Group: Guest

sometimes your comments hit me where It hurts .....and I am not even speaking of comments to me!!

I am not a woose or timid man,however the comments you made to Centraflow about his son brought some tears to my eyes.

Chet

It was not me that bought up his personal life, I did not bring up his son - he did!

There are some things that you shouldn't bring to the table, and our personal lives is one of those things. In my experience the people who do bring their personal lives to the attention of strangers are the people looking for the sympathy vote... and nothing else. I find this very underhanded.

But you are completely overlooking the issue. MJN has made many claims to have built this, that and the other many years ago, but he never actually provides any details, no photos, no specifics, just generalisations that mean or amount to nothing. I remember him once claiming that Audi had stolen his work, and that a patent someone found was his work that had been stolen.  Just bullshit, Chet, bullshit that many gullible folk at EF bought into.

The None Electrolytic... thread on EF promised much, but amounted to didly-squat (as I always knew it would). Yet he had folk buying parts for a heterodyning amplifier and the thread went on for ever without even a schematic or anything to support that he even had any idea what he was talking about - which he didn't. Eventually he started talking about his SMD electrolyser in a vain attempt to rejuvenate the thread. The thing is Chet, I know him for what he is. He thrives in the limelight and ultimately hopes that someone will actually get working something that he will later claim to be the inventor of.

It's all here:  http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6431-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o.html

All 600-odd pointless posts!
   
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Wasn't multiple choice [the question]...

Can we Start fresh? the world around us really does race beyond belief,what may have been Nothing yesterday could well become the best thing since sliced bread tomorrow.[or canned beer [don't go there]]

I have heard it said there is nothing new under the sun,the more you know the less you know!
I believe we will be revisiting things that were believed a waste of time in the past?

Just a thought Farrah,We share the same rock!
although it does grow smaller.....
thx
Chet
   
Group: Guest
If you've learned anything Chet, it should be that we share the same 'rock' as the charlatans, the scam artists and the 'know-nothing' wannabes. You are too sensitive, you let emotion cloud your judgement, you always have... I do not!

I gave Mike the chance to make amends when he posted on the 'Kanzius salt water burning' thread. He immediately reverted to type by avoiding questions and posting in Spanish. Open your eyes Chet, the world is not the warm, fluffy place you seem to think it is... and thinking nice thoughts won't change things!
« Last Edit: 2013-06-14, 08:18:24 by Farrah Day »
   

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Everyman decries immorality

There are some things that you shouldn't bring to the table, and our personal lives is one of those things. In my experience the people who do bring their personal lives to the attention of strangers are the people looking for the sympathy vote... and nothing else. I find this very underhanded.


If you insult me indirectly like that again I will take it personal. You have no concept of what I actually am, have experienced, or intend. Your experience is limited, as is all of ours.

RIM.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
Group: Guest
Abstract:
A speech, a vague theory outside of the physics, a prophet criticizing the academic knowledge, theorizing without predicting the least new fact, saying the good words and selling books at a high price.
Nothing else here.

Thank you for re-posting the Gerald Pollack video.  There is a patent image shown at the eight minute mark, but it has nothing to do with water molecules, (which is unusual for Gerald,) so I did not expand on that here.  It was posted only in reference to EM's universities comment.  Coincidentally, Gerald has done some work with water himself, but more of the associative kind: structured water.  http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1676.msg28842#msg28842
   
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Jon
Perhaps?
and then there is also the fact that organic chemistry as well as inorganic chemistry are vastly different and most chemists
are usually one or the other?
however nowadays it would seem there is much to learn in these areas ?
Thx
Chet
   
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ere come the emotions . ... be kind to each other
   
Group: Guest
If you insult me indirectly like that again I will take it personal. You have no concept of what I actually am, have experienced, or intend. Your experience is limited, as is all of ours.

RIM.

What!?  ??? I don't know who you are, what you are referring too or indeed why you think I was insulting you indirectly or otherwise.

I was talking about MJN (Centraflow) who is extremely good at leading people on wild goose chases. I have no reason to insult you, but those that know me know that if I was insulting you I would not be doing it indirectly. So, unless you are MJN's alter ego you have no reason whatsoever to post this.
   
Group: Guest
So, Farrah Day, are you gonna give it all away?  Or be rich? 


Give what away?
   
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I have the latest from Aaron at ef,in reguards to his water powered jet engine -using Stans tek.
Quote:-i can run between 88% and 98% water.
Quote: i can use as little as .1 to .9 psi of propane-  Huh?

Can some one please convert this to ltr's of propane per minute for me? ,I know the head preasure of the propane,but cant work out the flow rate at this preasure?
How is this an accurate measurement ?-and coming from the throne sitter over there.
   
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Ouch!!
Sorry, I just tripped over your stone pile.....

Sometimes its hard to understand the dynamics of a Jet engine and what "power" actually looks like.
as you may know I started my trip through life in Aircraft .

And as you also Know even an ICE can appear to run on nothing when "forced induction" is involved ,run away 2 stroke diesels with no apparent fuel [until you find the empty crank case]]

good question,[I'll get back to you]
Thx
Chet
   
Group: Guest
I have the latest from Aaron at ef,in reguards to his water powered jet engine -using Stans tek.
Quote:-i can run between 88% and 98% water.
Quote: i can use as little as .1 to .9 psi of propane-  Huh?

Can some one please convert this to ltr's of propane per minute for me? ,I know the head preasure of the propane,but cant work out the flow rate at this preasure?
How is this an accurate measurement ?-and coming from the throne sitter over there.

Tinman, I honestly wouldn't waste my time with him, you will just get the run around, and never be provided with any details that matter (or would matter if there is any truth behind his claims) - you will just be led on another classic wild goose chase! You will just become frustrated.

You will note that Murakami bases all of what he claims on one thing, this being that Meyer actually knew what he was talking about in the first place. This - in my opinion - is a major mistake as it is quite clear that Meyer had little grasp on the science involved. And this is there for everyone to see throughout his technical brief.

Meyer's idea of recirculating exhaust gases (non-combustible gases) and adding these, along with ambient air into the hydroxy mixture was purely in an attempt to reduce the burn rate of hydrogen to that of gasoline in order that it would run an ICE.  So clearly we are limited by the amount of hydrogen produced at the very first stage. LATER Meyer talks of increasing the energy output by ionising all these gases, in the gas processor, but of course this then negates the idea of slowing the burn rate down for use in an ICE.  ???  If Murakami wants to treat Meyer's technical guide as a bible, then that's up to him, but it's a big problem as it's full of holes. If you have a copy of Meyer's technical brief, let me bring to your attention pages, 9-8 (Spaceship Earth) and 5-12 (Energy Aperture of the Atom) where he has a diagram of an atom being a 'universal energy pathway' to 'other dimensional universes' - what this has to do with anything is anyone's guess! Meyer also relies on the dielectric constant of water throughout his technical brief, repeatedly quoting a figure of 78.54 (sometimes in ohms). But we all know that this figure is absolutely meaningless in regards to any water other than pure water produced in strictest laboratory conditions.  So care must be taken with Meyer, and judgement calls need to be made on what is real and what is not. As far as Murakami goes though, he is a total waste of time and not worth the effort of even conversing with.

From Murakami:
Quote
300-500% Faraday. It is because of the conditioned tubes. There is a hydrogen loading process on the negative electrodes along with the calcium and magnesium oxides that plate on there. They act as a dielectric. The magnesium oxide itself has a dielectric strength of 10-30kv/mm.

 Anyway, as hydrogen is loaded into that plate, it is released later. Then you only have to make up the loss and you can beat Faraday by several hundred percent. You could consider that cheating but so what? It works.

 Not sure why so many people can't get this coating and wind up with garbage in their water. I don't have those problems and it does it every time

Yet more absolute twaddle. 'Hydrogen is loaded on the plate and released later'... what?  Make up what loss? And this beats Faraday by several hundred percent... how?! 'You could consider it cheating'...  ???

Is this seriously, really the extent of his understanding... and he writes books on this stuff.  :o  The mind boggles! His book, 'Water Fuel Secrets' must be a real eye-opener.  C.C

It's when I see this kind of childish garbage posted by a self-proclaimed Spiritual Leader, Free Energy Guru and self-important know-it-all that I get a tad annoyed. It also upsets me that so many people buy into his nonsense and let themselves willingly be led by him to the Land of Make Believe.
   
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