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Author Topic: DISSOCIATION OF THE WATER MOLECULE  (Read 132289 times)
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AC,
I have seen William drive people to madness ,in threads that he made no contributions to ,other than his "role" he plays!
Farrah did seem to be singled out for the "treatment"
And he is still doing this on threads at Ou ,places where newcomers are trying to have serious conversation
And just closing down the threads as a result of Williams "role playing".

There are always two sides to a story ,and while I may have much more tolerance for shenanigans as a result of my lifes experience [with the handicapped].
I suspect it can be most taxing to an individual[Farrah] that is devoting their spare time and resources to openly working and openly sharing this with the rest of us Open source!

While William Holds his cards close to his chest and glares and taunts ,although he is trying to share something lately?

Chet

This thread that binds us together ,gets stretched a little tight sometimes ,but making this world a better place then we found it "is still the tie that binds"
Happy Holiday to You and yours!
   
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@ramset
Quote
I have seen William drive people to madness ,in threads that he made no contributions to ,other than his "role" he plays!
Farrah did seem to be singled out for the "treatment"
And he is still doing this on threads at Ou ,places where newcomers are trying to have serious conversation
And just closing down the threads as a result of Williams "role playing".
There are always two sides to a story ,and while I may have much more tolerance for shenanigans as a result of my lifes experience [with the handicapped].
I suspect it can be most taxing to an individual that is devoting their spare time and resources to openly working and openly sharing this with the rest of us Open source!

I would agree William has a way with people, lol, and has driven many to maddness but if we are going to start pointing fingers I can name just as many critics who have shut down just as many threads by doing the same thing William has. Both jump into a thread and try to promote their opinions as irrefutable facts and feel compelled to make their point over and over and over. As well some have said that I belong to one "camp" or side of the issue but I do not think this is the case, I am in the middle and think both sides have lost their marbles, lol. I understand I do tend to criticize the critics more often than not but more often than not they will drag personal issues and insults into the mix and I find this offensive and have little tolerance for that kind of behavior.
As well it may not be common knowledge but I would disagree with William on most theoretical and technical issues but does not give me nor anyone else the right to insult him personally it simply means we disagree, our disagreement is one of the reasons I like reading his posts so much. Can you imagine where we would be if all of us thought the same and always agreed with one another? I think this is the real heart of the issue where one party feels compelled to force their opinions on others as if they were fact, I think it has very little to do with the facts and relates more to dominance over others. I find it rather comical that so many people on both sides would take such a special interest in me and feel so compelled to tell me how it is and why they could not possibly be wrong in their opinions, lol, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside not unlike a good shot of rye whiskey. I guess at the end of the day the person with a working free energy device will be the one who is right and all other opinions will be simply that---opinions.
I think my new years resolution will be to try to be that person and leave the squabbling to others even if it is a great way to hone my debating skills, also to stay on topic -- sorry poynt99.
Regards and best wishes to all in the new year
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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On the Topic Note
From Helmut at OU
A firm believer in these two fellows!

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvSbJ9mG4Tk

Helmut

p.s.  here is a better link    
http://www.youtube.com/user/banditforfreedom
   

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Whenever people interact with people some sort of
"conflict" or "misunderstanding" will inevitably arise.

We must learn to be "smarter" in how we are tempted
to respond to comments which seem to "push our
emotional buttons."

First

Second

Third

As less than perfect models of human(e) behavior we are
all influenced by our "need" to communicate with others.

Unfortunately, we've all been "programmed" by exposure
to less than ideal "models" of how to control our emotions.

We tend to do as we've been taught.  Right or wrong.



---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   

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Buy me some coffee
Using cerium oxide to mimic absorption of solar energy by plants
High-Flux Solar-Driven Thermochemical Dissociation of CO2 and H2O Using Nonstoichiometric Ceria

http://ktwop.wordpress.com/2010/12/24/using-cerium-oxide-to-mimic-absorption-of-solar-energy-by-plants/
   

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Very interesting Peterae.

More detail can be found HERE.



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Buy me some coffee
I remember buying some cerium oxide some years ago from a glass merchant, it's used for polishing scratches out of glass
   
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Merry Christmas AC, you do make me smile!  :)

I think you started this statement well enough but again reverted to the habit of making false statements not as opinion but as fact, in fact it is not plain and clear to "everyone" that Ist is a mindless idot which should be obvious.

Glad you approved of the start at least. Sorry AC, I should have said, 'it is plain and clear to anyone with half a brain that IST is a mindless idiot'. I stand corrected  :)

You are obviously offended by how I regard IST and by what I say, but I'm only using legitmate dictionary words. And these words are there to serve just such a purpose.  If I call a black man black, I'm not being racist, I'm not being insulting... he is black. Likewise if I call an idiotic person an idiot, I'm hardly doing him an injustice if he is an idiot. I'm only surprised that they don't give IST's name by way of an example in the dictionary definition of idiot!

I really don't see what your problem is, or indeed why you are making so much of this.  This has always just been my opinion of IST, but as for facts, well get real man, the facts do tend to speak for themselves... and have done so for some 4000-odd posts!

You're making far too much of this, but you're also making too light of the disruption IST causes. The clap-trap aside, you seem to be forgeting how offensive some of ISTs lunatic rantings have been.  There was a time on Hartmanns forum, on the JT thread, when someone actually donated a signal generator to IST, who agreed just to pay the P&P. He never did pay the P&P and when the donator commented on this, IST took photos of the sig. gen as he smashed it to pieces and then uploaded the photos to the forum attached to very offensive posts.

Now, do you think this is the behaviour of a sane or intelligent human being?  Well? Tell you what AC, you have a look through the dictionary and see if you can find words more apt than, 'mindless idiot' to describe IST... and when you find them let me know.

Are you by any chance a vicar?
   
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Happy holidays all,
Ist, a verifiable singularity from twin black holes from a negative parallel universe.
After trying to help with a simple oscillator, I gave up. Destroying equipment too?  Definately verified.
Back to the topic, plated or dissimilar metal electrodes, a worthy experiment for a lower voltage drop between cells. More plates per unit, more gas.
Has this been investigated by anyone?
steve.
   
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Farrah,
You were right about the magnetic mending plates,
From Energetic
------------------------

 
Mookie  
Junior Member   Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 22  
 
.

Chet / Yaro

The reason I suggested stainless steel mending plates is that someone mentioned
that they weren't able to get their hands on 403, 420, 430 or 431 martensitic steel
(stainless steel with magnetic properties able to be attracted to a magnet).

As a substitute, these will work just fine as electrode plates and can be found in
most home improvement stores, farm supply, or building stores in the section
where they sell brackets and hinges.

They are generally made of 400 series martensitic stainless steel
in various sizes, some as large as 3" x 4".

Bring a small magnet to test for their attraction before you buy them.

Mookie
Attached Thumbnails
-----------------------------
Chet
PS
I think Oliver and Valentin are on a completely different page than Freddie!
A whole nother book!!

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10156.msg268231#new

YES!!! O0


    
« Last Edit: 2010-12-26, 04:04:10 by ramset »
   
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From Freddy's thread,

 lamare 
Quote:
 
An interesting detail in the following book:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/Blitz.pdf

Jack Blitz - Ultrasonics : Methods and Applications

Page 143 (77 in pdf) :


Quote:
7.9 Chemical effects

One of the effects of cavitation in a liquid is the promotion of chemical reactions. This is caused by the electrolytic action brought about by the appearance of equal and opposite free electrical charges at opposite ends of the bubbles, the enormous local increases of pressure and temperature when the bubbles collabse, and the release of energy from the bubbles when resonating with the ultrasonic waves.
Ordinary tap-water electrolyses as a result of cavitation, and, if certain substances are dissolved in it, either oxidation or reduction may occur, depending on the nature of the dissolved substance. 

This basically says you can electrolyse tap-water using acoustic resonance effects.
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Yes, checked out that document that 'lamare' posted 'over there' and the following is a quote from two paragraphs after lamare's quote (as listed above) ends.

Quote
Because of the very slow rates of reaction, the chemical changes brought about by ultrasound have very little practical application. However, it has been found that ultrasonics have accelerated by a considerable extent those chemical changes initiated by other means.

(emphases mine)

Fascinating thoughts, eh? I wonder how many of the devices that have achieved apparent 'over-Faraday' electrolysis have indeed been employing (knowingly or not) a form of this ultrasonic 'boost'. I haven't digested the whole document yet, but have always wondered about the acoustics that may be involved here. I asked for your thoughts on this over there Farrah Day and was disappointed you didn't respond... now I know why!!! ;D It's unfortunate that some people weren't enjoying and 'learning' from the discussions you were having with lamare like I was.... :-[ But hey, I guess we ALL are subject to that nasty thing called ego at one point or another in our lives and have to be humbled by the very thing that we're convinced of....and that forum 'moderator' is no exception to this rule....Ah, well.... life....

I see from your earlier posts here that you, too, have seen the possibilities that exist for all of these factors to be simultaneously occurring within these 'resonant' cells!! I'll be following your work closely here as it unfolds! I hope to soon be in a better position to build one of these for myself and try some out some of the ideas in my head, but being on the road 6 days a week is not too conducive to that at the moment, so I'll be rooting fer ya as you build and test your hypotheses on yours!

Thanks again for 'keeping it real', some really do appreciate when others call a spade a spade!

regards from the west ('US - West', that is)! Also, thanks Chet for your link 'over there' to this forum!
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@ Farrah

Sorry, but one other question.

On that Freddy thread, he states he is compressing his cell to over 60 PSI. What is your take on the gasses he is producing that would allow that without an explosive (or implosive) recombination happening? Or if he truly isn't legit, what COULD theoretically evolve from an electrolytic solution as stated where that would become plausible? My math is much stronger than my chemistry and I'm stumped with this...

groundhog
   
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I asked for your thoughts on this over there Farrah Day and was disappointed you didn't respond... now I know why!!! ;D It's unfortunate that some people weren't enjoying and 'learning' from the discussions you were having with lamare like I was.... :-[ But hey, I guess we ALL are subject to that nasty thing called ego at one point or another in our lives and have to be humbled by the very thing that we're convinced of....and that forum 'moderator' is no exception to this rule....Ah, well.... life....

groundhog

Hi GH, Aaron banned me from Energetic Forum, hence my not being able to respond to your post over there. It seems I asked too many difficult or uncomfortable questions of people who claim to know it all.  As you say... that's life.

With regards to FF, I think everything he says has to be taken with a pinch of salt.  He says one thing one minute, then something else the next, before going on to talk a load of complete and utter bollocks!  You will note that the FF saga has been going now for months and he has yet to disclose any real information - or get independent verification of his claims.  And indeed some of his videos actually rather seem to emphasise that he can't do what he claims (particularly the bench electrolyser video, whereby he feeds the truck in the workshop the gas for about 15 seconds before it stalls!). 

Though there is a great concern about compressing H2 and O2, a number of people have compressed hydroxy without any apparent problems, Rhodes and Ohmasa, come to mind. Whether the resulting gases from a common duct electrolyser do indeed have a property that is different from compressing to seperate sources of H2 and O2 is still very much in question, but could possibly have something to do with Parahydrogen vs Orthohydrogen combinations.  However, it might simply be that all the necessary precautions have been made... or they have been lucky! Certainly not something I'd want to experiment with.

If we only have H20 (and KOH as the electrolyte) then the possible chemical combinations are clearly limited.  Moreso if using just H2O (though there will be some dissolved gases withing the water such as O2 and N2).  However, whereas standard electrolysis produces H2 and O2, cavitation in water can result in other radicals that are not normally seen in electrolysis, such as Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2. But of course the only real gains come if we are producing useful radicals for less energy than standard electrolysis uses, or we see a real gain in exothermic reaction upon combustion.

The Eckman paper shows an unknown spike on his Atomic Mass Analysis for Brown's Gas gragh, that to me at least suggests the presence of deuterium. The only thing is, it is at a far greater level than you would expect.  Just wish I had acess to mass spectrometers and suchlike.

http://pesn.com/2010/05/28/9501658-Plasma_Orbital_Expansion-of-the-Electrons_in_Water/

 
   
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GroundHog,
Wecome,
Sometimes new places need a little time to get use to,See here also re; acceleration and on going experiments being shared by Mookie and others.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=399.msg8893;topicseen#msg8893

Chet
   
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@ Farrah Day

Quote
With regards to FF, I think everything he says has to be taken with a pinch of salt.
 

Definitely, pending some replications and independent verification!


Quote
Certainly not something I'd want to experiment with.
For sure... though you wouldn't have to have somebody tell you that you failed!  ;D

Quote
But of course the only real gains come if we are producing useful radicals for less energy than standard electrolysis uses, or we see a real gain in exothermic reaction upon combustion.

Just theorizing here, but what if you could 'kill two birds with one stone?' That is, produce the required V & I for a standard electrolysis reaction, and simultaneously with that same V & I induce a resonant magnetic or acoustic standing wave in the medium? It could theoretically 'boost' the known molecular reaction without increasing the cost to the source (ie. our wallets!  ;)).

I see that you're familiar with the ultrasonic cavitation technology and the only reason that I mention the magnetic wave is because of the Mike Nunnerley thread over at EF, have you seen that? Apart from the spelling errors that drive me nuts... he seems to have accomplished something there worth considering if it, too, survives further investigation/replication. Plus, the mookie thread here as well makes mention of an apparent magnetic effect.

That Nunnerley thread is here if you haven't seen it: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6431-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o.html Sorry, if this is still a sore subject....


Quote
The Eckman paper shows an unknown spike on his Atomic Mass Analysis for Brown's Gas graph, that to me at least suggests the presence of deuterium. The only thing is, it is at a far greater level than you would expect.  Just wish I had access to mass spectrometers and suchlike.

http://pesn.com/2010/05/28/9501658-Plasma_Orbital_Expansion-of-the-Electrons_in_Water/
Thanks for this... fascinating. I'll have to try to digest this as well!

@ Chet

Thanks for the warm welcome, yes I've seen that thread as well (& YouTube), but really haven't had the time to cover it all thoroughly. My first thoughts were the same as Farrah's in that it was a mechanically induced vibration; however I see now that he has addressed that in earlier 'purely mechanical' vibrational tests so it leaves me to wonder if his magnetic field isn't somehow working in conjunction with the electrical field and simulating in some respects the RF wave that Mike Nunnerley uses in his system. I guess it'll just require more patience...(sigh) until such time as we can really get a handle on the true process happening here. Whatever it is, it's got to be a very hostile environment for the water molecule!! I think I'd come 'unglued' pretty rapidly in that environment too ;D

Regards from the West! And wishes for a very productive New Year!!
groundhog
   
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@ Farrah Day
  Just theorizing here, but what if you could 'kill two birds with one stone?' That is, produce the required V & I for a standard electrolysis reaction, and simultaneously with that same V & I induce a resonant magnetic or acoustic standing wave in the medium? It could theoretically 'boost' the known molecular reaction without increasing the cost to the source (ie. our wallets!  ;)).

GH, that's exactly how I see this panning out. To my mind cavitation is a by-product of the plates (or tubes) oscillating due to the interacting magnetic fields that arise because of pulsing currents - and of course something that we would never encounter in straight dc electrolysers. This then acts as a catalyst to normal electrolysis. No doubt that some energy is required to make the plates oscillate, but this has likely always been the case when using a PWM to pulse the current through the cells, but now we are looking to enhance this effect by hitting a resonant frequency.

It has also recently occurred to me that the pressure variations within the water created by oscillating plates will not only possibly form pockets of water vapour on rarefaction, but also cause the bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen leaving the electrodes to undergo some major stresses. After all, if a bubble of water vapour can form and implode due to cavitation, then surely the same can be said for the hydrogen and oxygen bubbles.  


Quote
I see that you're familiar with the ultrasonic cavitation technology and the only reason that I mention the magnetic wave is because of the Mike Nunnerley thread over at EF, have you seen that? Apart from the spelling errors that drive me nuts... he seems to have accomplished something there worth considering if it, too, survives further investigation/replication. Plus, the mookie thread here as well makes mention of an apparent magnetic effect.

That Nunnerley thread is here if you haven't seen it: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6431-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o.html Sorry, if this is still a sore subject....

Thanks for this... fascinating. I'll have to try to digest this as well!

groundhog

Mike Nunnerley's thread is one of the reasons I was banned by Aaron, as he effectively called me stupid for asking questions that Mike had already answered (NOT), and deemed my constant questions to be harassment (check out page 1-3 of that thread). Needless to say I made my feelings about him known in no uncertain terms, and that was that. Aaron has since deleted many of my posts and indeed his own retorts. Anyway, a few of them are clearly all in bed together over there and as thick as thieves, so even asking legitimate questions that they won't - or can't - answer often causes them to gang up on someone like me.  Many of them are simply following Mikes lead and have no idea what they are talking about, or indeed what they are doing, others, like Aaron, make out that they know it all and yet see fit to be ellusive.  I really don't trust Mike as he is a bit of a bullshitter, he once claimed to be working behind the scenes with Tutanka on an ionisation device, but later Tutanka claimed this had never been so :o.  And I seriously get the impression that, very much like FF, Mike is enjoying the attention and just blagging his way through it.  When I asked about what reactions he thought would be occurring, he always avoided the question and tried to belittle me by way of an answer, just as Aaron (prize dick) always did.  Mike is also one of these irritating people that seems to enjoy telling everyone that he knows this and that, he has all the answers, but then gets even greater pleasure from telling them that his lips are sealed due to a non-disclosure act or similar... how very convenient. To be honest I think he's just an attention seeker, someone that tries to elevate himself at the top of the heap by piling up the bullshit - I don't think he has a clue. And besides I personally could never put any faith in someone, supposedly educated, that titles his thread, 'None Electrolytic Splitting of H2o', instead of the grammatically correct, 'Non-Electrolytic Splitting of H2O'.   The terrible spelling aside, the whole thread contains no actual science that relates to how RF electromagnetic waves actually dissociate the water molecule. There is not even any theorising of the reaction that must take place for it to work. I once asked Mike if he thought that the water molecule was ionising first, but he didn't seem to even understand the question.  I don't believe that anything will ever come of it, and just like Tutanka's claims, in time it will all dissipate into nothingness.

I'm going to be starting a new thread on my bench specifically for discussing Chris Eckman's paper, and particularly the findings of the mass spectrometer gas analysis, which I've been studying further over the Christmas period.  I did actually email Eckman a while ago with some questions about the obvious flaws in his paper but, alas, he has never replied.  
« Last Edit: 2011-01-09, 20:44:02 by Farrah Day »
   
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@ Farrah

My apologies for bringing up the nunnerley thread, I erred in thinking that it was the Freddy thread that was the 'kicker' for you. After going back to the beginning of THIS thread, I see now your references to that. Please forgive my lack of due consideration.

All difficult personality relations aside however, it would seem premature to totally disregard their apparent 'discoveries' just yet. I am fascinated with this RF effect as demonstrated relatively openly by Kanzius. Then when you add Nunnerley and possibly mookie into that camp as well, it seems there could be something useful yet to come out of it all.

It's truly a shame that some of these 'inventions' can't seem to get past their 'inventors' because of silly personality issues! :-\ I mean, really, how hard is it to just say "I don't know, but here's what I did and here's what I've seen"? Obviously it's too hard for some, which is one of the primary reasons that I passed on my opportunity to participate in one of the institutions of so called 'higher education' many moons ago!

Let's hope that at least one of these will produce something substantial enough that we can replicate and thereby observe and study to find out some real answers. Perhaps you're right in that some of these truly CAN'T give any definitive answers and so have landed on a 'mystical energy source' to help avoid having to reply with the above referenced 'hard answer'.

Don't get me wrong, I am also fascinated by Bearden's/Bedini's theories and have been trying to mentally capture what they have put out (though Bearden's 'maths' are well beyond my training), it seems plausible from what I can grasp that we potentially could have a radical new 'growth spurt' in store over the next few decades in our fundamental understanding of energy, if TPTB let down their guard too long that is...

It has also recently occurred to me that the pressure variations within the water created by oscillating plates will not only possibly form pockets of water vapour on rarefaction, but also cause the bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen leaving the electrodes to undergo some major stresses. After all, if a bubble of water vapour can form and implode due to cavitation, then surely the same can be said for the hydrogen and oxygen bubbles.
 

Do you suppose this is where some of the variants in the gasses which are being evolved is occurring? Is that the direction of your thoughts with this? Do I hear Deuterium from a cell implied here, from YOU? Or is my ignorance getting the best of me? >:D

Quote
I'm going to be starting a new thread on my bench specifically for discussing Chris Eckman's paper, and particularly the findings of the mass spectrometer gas analysis, which I've been studying further over the Christmas period.  I did actually email Eckman a while ago with some questions about the obvious flaws in his paper but, alas, he has never replied.  

I'd be interested in following that thread and absorbing as much of the discussion as possible!

I'm almost certain that many others have brought those issues to his attention as well, and hopefully TPTB haven't caused him to back off of his studies in that direction as he does appear to be young and may not want to 'make any more waves' in the 'establishment', his career objectives thus being 'potentially jeopardized'. I suppose you are familiar with those pressure tactics? We can only hope that he'll continue to open his info publicly, so we can all benefit from his findings.

Much studying/thinking to do...
groundhog
   
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@ Farrah

My apologies for bringing up the nunnerley thread, I erred in thinking that it was the Freddy thread that was the 'kicker' for you. After going back to the beginning of THIS thread, I see now your references to that. Please forgive my lack of due consideration.

All difficult personality relations aside however, it would seem premature to totally disregard their apparent 'discoveries' just yet. I am fascinated with this RF effect as demonstrated relatively openly by Kanzius. Then when you add Nunnerley and possibly mookie into that camp as well, it seems there could be something useful yet to come out of it all.

Don't worry about hurting my feeling GH, with my lack of tact and diplomacy skills, I can't afford to be over-sensistive. :)  You have to bear in mind when I say these things that I've been around these forums for a long time and have now developed a sixth sense for utter bullshit - I also have long experience with Nunnerley claiming things but never offering up the proof or indeed further details when asked.  I see nothing on that Nunnerley thread that is anything different from what we know Kanzius achieved (the science behind which is still yet to be explained), nor anything by way of proof, even though Mike states that he knows it works because he did it before. He always fails to cite references or give specifics. If he did it before, why all the messing about? Just replicate the bloody experiment again!  Might just be my natural sceptiscm GH, but I don't trust him or his science. Time will tell, eh!

Quote
Do you suppose this is where some of the variants in the gasses which are being evolved is occurring? Is that the direction of your thoughts with this? Do I hear Deuterium from a cell implied here, from YOU? Or is my ignorance getting the best of me? >:D

Tap water will obviously contain various minerals and absorbed gases, as Eckman's Atomic Mass Analysis graph shows, but the prospect of creating Deuterium Oxide or Heavy Water (D2O) in an electrolyser does seem rather absurd.  In nature only around 156 ppm of hydrogen atoms are deuterium, yet the peak on Eckman's graph that he calls 'Plasma Expanded Water', is sitting right around where you would expect Deuterium Oxide to be if it were indeed present (atomic mass 20.04). The thing is, that this is a relatively high peak, which would suggest a lot of deuterium oxide - far more than would naturally be present.  Certainly with an atomic mass of around 20, it cannot simply be water with a few extra electrons in a higher orbit, that could not possibly account for the additional mass.  

However, there is an obvious problem, and that is that although this unknown peak sits between  the 18.042 water vapour peak and the 22.992 sodium peak, Eckman for some reason does not actually give it an atomic mass figure. And it would appear that the x axis of the graphis  not linear. In my email to him I did ask if he had a specific figure for the atomic mass of that peak, but I doubt he will ever reply.

Quote
I'd be interested in following that thread and absorbing as much of the discussion as possible!

I'm almost certain that many others have brought those issues to his attention as well, and hopefully TPTB haven't caused him to back off of his studies in that direction as he does appear to be young and may not want to 'make any more waves' in the 'establishment', his career objectives thus being 'potentially jeopardized'. I suppose you are familiar with those pressure tactics? We can only hope that he'll continue to open his info publicly, so we can all benefit from his findings.

Much studying/thinking to do...
groundhog

Sure, Eckman is young, but as an undergraduate he must know that a scientific paper should be relatively error free other than perhaps when theorising.  I just get the feeling that he's gone off half-cocked and produced the paper before he has fully researched all the elements. However, the errors he's made about how normal electrolysis works and his incorrect use of the term 'isotope' may ultimately not be important. It is just that I find that these kind of errors, once recognised, must surely and inevitably cast doubt on the accuracy of everything else written therein.

I've already detailed a lot of my thoughts on the Eckman paper in various posts, but feel it would be a good idea to bring it all under one roof. Because, though I find the paper itself riddled with some quite blatant flaws, the mass spectrometer gas analysis graph is surely extremely valuable and indeed useful information.  At least on these forums, I don't know of anyone who has highlighted the flaws in the paper other trhan myself.
   
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So many things about this sound so familiar,now that I have some perspective.

From Here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10230.msg271729#new


From A new fellow "Batfish"

Posts: 2

Re: COLD FUSION SUCCESS
« Reply #28 on: Today at 01:08:01 PM »Quote@mscoffman

See

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/19/rossi-and-focardi-lenr-device-probably-real-with-credit-to-piantelli

and

http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2008/NET29-8dd54geg.shtml#dpnr

These and other articles relate Focardi's work to a finding reported by Francesco Piantelli, a biophysicist at the University of Siena, based on an observation made in 1988. There was an article in Nuovo Cimento  by Focardi, Habel and Piantelli, and the finding seems to have been replicated at the University of Pavia (see New Energy Times articles for references).

It seems that Piantelli didn't follow up energy aspects of his finding, as he is concerned with finding a treatment for cancer.

I was puzzled how a setup involving Hydrodgen and Nickel related to biophysics. The answer seems to lie in the use of Raney Nickel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raney_nickel) as a catalyst for hydrogenation of vegetable oils.

Raney nickel is made by using caustic soda to dissolve most of the aluminum out of a chunk of nickel-aluminium alloy, leaving a chunk of extremely porous nickel that can have a a surface area of 100 m2 per gram. The process (2 Al + 2 NaOH + 6 H2O → 2 Na[Al(OH)4] + 3 H2) releases hydrogen and the resulting material is presumably used to absorb hydrogen and deliver it in the hydrogenation process.

I seem to remember that Raney Nickel has also been mentioned in relation to the Blacklight process

So it looks as if Focardi's system is likely to involve some kind of Raney Nickel as providing a deeply porous container for processes of the kind that were observed by Piantelli.
   
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Farrah
Here yah go

50 LPM 24 bucks [PDF]

http://cgi.ebay.com/50-LPM-Hydrogen-Cell-Unit-Plans-/230611863158?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b189c676

Chet

Hey what happened to this thread?
Stopped many months ago, I've been gone for a while too!
Is this a scammer that made plans for Freddy's device on PDF? Anybody tried this PDF?
   
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I’ve also seen it written that any voltage above the required voltage necessary to induce electrolysis does nothing but create heat. This of course is nonsense. Over voltage may reduce overall efficiency of the electrolyser due to the V x I = W of ohms law, but by the very same law also states V/R = I. In other words increasing the voltage will of course increase the current and so result in more product/s.



My my, seems like this is indeed old school for you.  So have you figure out how to make electrolysis OU?  I think if we can make electrolysis happens below 1.2 V, we can achieve OU. 

   
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I don't consider OU in its strictest sense to be attainable in way, shape or form. Though I'm quite comfortable with the terms, 'Free Energy' or 'ZPE' and fully open to the possibility of certain devices being able to acquire excess energy from the environment.

Quote
I think if we can make electrolysis happens below 1.2 V, we can achieve OU. 

Why would you think this? Besides, we can already 'make electrolysis happen below 1.2 V', by the introduction of certain catalysts, but while a voltage is required to draw a current there will always be a power requirement.
   
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