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Author Topic: The TPU: Was It Real ?  (Read 162551 times)

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I should add that when I posted this information, I was hit with denial of service and had my computer lock up every time I went to OU.com and had hundreds of viruses loaded onto my computer, I had nothing but trouble with them after that and that is why I left there.

Room3327,

I wouldn't attribute those computer issues with what is posted. The cause is the site you visited. OU.com blasts your machine with almost every hook in the book. Some of those turned out to be trojans for me. I am no newbee to computers and networking. It is more due to the methods always evolving.

I would like to see some detail on the rotation you mentioned. In my experience, if the output requires rectification to produce DC then the rotation is conventional and motor-like not an elliptical wave or precession. I gave up on motor-like rotation a while ago for TPU research.

I'll look for that thread you mentioned. Thanks.


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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WW,
I was rectifing the toroidal secondary winding that was running on AC the output from the poloidal winding is unidirectional or DC as the field is rotating in one specific direction (CW or CCW).  I know it was hard for me to believe too.

 ::)

Added: I didn't have any computer problem with OU.com until I started posting.


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I just looked at your info.

No, it isn't hard to believe  O0

It is easier (for me, anyway) to obtain precession with a sine and an exact copy of that sine only delayed.

Nice looking work and planning  :)

Did you ever try loading that unrectified DC output?


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

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WW,

Yes, I loaded the output and that is why I say it appeared to be a static charge, It definately was not overunity but I don't know how correct my parameters were either.  It's very possible to improve on what I tested as I have with my last coil (pictures in the LSR thread).  The testing was done with a toroid I had wound and then had to take apart as the windings were connected wrong for rotation I used part of that coil and added a poloidal winding to the outside of that.  I'm sure you know that most of the magnetic field in a toroid is contained in the core so what I was seeing, was due to the little field on the outside of the toroid.  I am very sure moving the poloidal winding to the inside of the toroid will improve things significantly, which I did with my last transformer (photos) I just have not tested it yet because as I said I lost interest when it seemed no one else had any interest in it.  You can lead horses to water but you can't make them drink.
 ;D


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"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

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ION, It's all right there in my LSR thread I haven't been hiding it. The only difference is I added a second rotating field to it in the LSR thread.
 :)

Sorry I hadn't seen the LSR mentioned in that post, thought you were talking about something different. Yes I've been to your bench and looked it over in the past.


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There is another issue besides SEB, that I have found to be quite a pain in the neck and head.  When you use HV, short (few ns) pulses, into a high impedance coil, you create a very strong, rapidly changing elecyric field.  Go have a quick look at 9th grade physics text and they show that electrons and other charges move in an isolated object as well as objects connected to ground.  Add that the inducing effect is made much stronger by the rapid change and you suddenly get large currents in conductors regardless of how they are protected.  If you place your mosfets in a metal box of foil bag, the transient electric pulse induces a current in the box or bag and in the mosfets.  It took me a while to hack through the pseudoscience BS surrounding "radiant electricity" and determined how it can go through objects.

The attached image is from page 153 of "Electrical Transients in Power Systems", by Allan Greenwood.

Even the third object is entirely between the other two, the ES field of the first object still affects objects 2 and 3.  Even if you ground the middle object, the electric field pulse with induce the grounded cage and the object inside.
   

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The random Hutchison effect explained with resonant control.
http://wbabin.net/ntham/davis.pdf

Resonance in a ring.

I agree with the double pulse in a ring config. I have posted that before also. Currently working on digitally controlled sine generator with Jason. The board had some flaws that I am working out. Submitted these to Jason already. He has a hit list to re-engineer.


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I may have confused the issue by misquoting SM so I took some time this morning to make a transcript of the last few minutes of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_jJExZ1mBE&playnext=1&list=PLB1B2087E4EC1AB40&index=51


Quote
34:42:16 The uh basic point to all this is that this is a new technology, an entirely new way of doing things, it is not a battery, it is not collecting energy from outer space

34:56:03 In fact the technology utilized in this is very si (blanked out) receiving (blanked out) new (blank out) find old (blank out) verse engineering philosophy

35:12:19  This is not magic, this is not technology which is basically the equivalent of perpetual motion, it is not that at all.

35:20:22 The power comes from a very viable source that we use everyday, electromagnetic fields
uses electromagnetism or uses a magnetic field to create electron flow in a wire,its its been around for hundreds of years, its what we use everyday, and basically that's what we are doing here, we are creating electron flow in wire uh



I may have left out a few um's. We really need to find a copy without the blanked out section (34:56:03).

Note: I used the on screen elapsed time counter.

Looking at what SM says that is not deleted, he claims to have found a new way to cause electrons to flow in a wire.

The deleted parts are hard to guess at, but someone deleted them for a reason, as they appear to be deliberate rather than random audio that was arbitrarily lost.   He mention "verse engineer philosophy".  Possibly "reverse engineering philosophy", as in he may have determined what makes electrons drift and become a current at a fundamental level.
   
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I may have left out a few um's. We really need to find a copy without the blanked out section (34:56:03).

Note: I used the on screen elapsed time counter.


Looking at what SM says that is not deleted, he claims to have found a new way to cause electrons to flow in a wire.

The deleted parts are hard to guess at, but someone deleted them for a reason, as they appear to be deliberate rather than random audio that was arbitrarily lost.   He mention "verse engineer philosophy".  Possibly "reverse engineering philosophy", as in he may have determined what makes electrons drift and become a current at a fundamental level.

Yes I had capsulized what you have underlined in the chat the other day, which led to some confusion, as if it were a direct statement. Chat box was not allowing me to send anything over a few words, so I was shortening phrases. Most of what I wanted to say never got through to explain this.

I tried snipping out the blank parts and normalizing the audio portion of the blank areas back up to zero db, hoping there may have been some residual audio, but to no avail.

There is a possibility of artifacts of the audio embedded in the video, but I don't know how to extract this. I'm not sure if we are listening to the HiFi audio or standard audio.

There may be a copy out there somewhere that does not have blanked audio, a pre UEC version. Jack Durban probably has a copy. None of the Durban videos have UEC branding.

My guess is the UEC branded videos came well after the fact....may have been a Brian Collins scam behind SM's back or SM may have been complicit.
« Last Edit: 2010-12-30, 15:55:06 by ION »


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First, I would respectfully request that speculations about the TPU, real or fake be kept in the appropriate thread: "The TPU Was IT Real"

Second, I would like to respond to MH and some of his "quick draw" analysis of the TPU.

 I believe it is ok to have an opinion that it is fake, for it may very well have been a scam, but it is necessary to arrive at this viewpoint after having done the appropriate "due diligence", which includes at least a few hundred hours of research into the knowns and unknowns.

I suggest starting at the beginning of this thread and read as much as you can.

While I respect MH's ability to sniff out the bogus devices such as Ainslie, Bedini, Steorn, Romero and others and am completely in agreement his position on these devices, in the case of the larger TPU devices, to arrive so quickly at an opinion that it was done with hidden batteries using a small "joule thief" converter demonstrates a lack of prowess in the field of power engineering. Converters of this class (flyback) are rarely used for more than 100 watts output. Take some classes at Power Integrations to understand why. The larger SM17 supposedly demonstrated 800 watts output and was extremely lightweight for it's power density.

Regarding the Jack Durban interview by Sterling Allen, it is the most ridiculous interview I ever heard anyone conduct, as none of the real questions were asked, and JD demonstrated  a superficial knowledge of the art and science of electronics. Even the questions posed by Hartmann and other callers lacked substance. It seemed to be another prop in the Sterling Allen free energy circus.

As for the recorded telephone message from SM to JD, clearly a contrived bit of theatrics, so one must ask why JD walked away from a device he claims to have believed was real so many years ago, a device that would have dwarfed anything on his website, only to surface later to trash SM's reputation. Of course later we learn that JD and SM have kissed and made up after the screaming episode.

I would recommend one stay away from the soap opera stuff and focus on the early reports and Dr. Schinzinger's involvement and letters to SM.

When you read this thread from the beginning you will see that Dr. Schinzinger had impeccable credentials and knew power engineering, was not easily fooled and knew how to conduct the appropriate test to determine whether the device had hidden batteries etc. He was a mentor to the electric vehicle club at UCI.

By doubling the load and noting voltage drop, he could calculate the output impedance of the device. Read his lab report at the beginning of this thread. Note that it occurred Dec 12, 1995, before most of the videos were shot.

Those who have not done their homework could easily "shoot from the hip" with a quick assesment, but like the characters in the movie "Twelve Angry Men" they might have to reconsider their quick opinion when asked to reflect on the evidence.

I have spent a lifetime in the field of power engineering, also did my share of bit banging in the 6502 days, with many successful and profitable microcomputer designs. Now we use PICs.

"not just a bit jockey"


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Ion:

Great posting and "Twelve Angry Men" is a movie that everyone should see.  It's a truly awesome move.  Indeed, I am shooting from the hip and will confess (again) that the whole TPU business is not my cup of tea.  And I am also not very knowledgeable with respect to power electronics.  But I do know the basics about how transformers work.

I am only left with the hard-ball question; "It's 15 years since 1996 and the SM TPU seemingly only exists in the imaginations of the forum enthusiasts.  Where the f*ck is it if it is supposed to be real?"

I guess that's a rhetorical question!  lol

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The pattern of OU'ers ends in fustration and/or dissillusionment. They then turn into lurkers or rip chords.
Quote
(20:28:39) giantkiller: a trigger coil can be used on the base of a transistor to fluxuate a coil.
(20:29:18) giantkiller: I am working on the SM17 model for some time now. Life gets in the way.
(20:30:29) giantkiller: the chatbox gets lossy.
(20:31:02) giantkiller: I have 3 18" loops that I want to use as ZPE readers.
(20:31:47) giantkiller: I also had resonated iron core in a couple of my tests and want to get back to that.
(20:33:05) giantkiller: My suspicion is that the large loops face the earth and the ionosphere and can read this activity.
(20:33:37) giantkiller: So if an iron core can be resonated then the field of the earth can be also.
(20:34:24) giantkiller: The strange effects that some see are probably related to this activity.
(20:35:22) giantkiller: This is related to 'jacking the field' or the electron motion that itseung8 stated.
(20:35:58) giantkiller: it happens in a core and in space through resonance.

I had posted that center toroid thingy is a voice coil driver.
I have a model that injects noise into the driver that drives the coils. I used buffer chips instead of true drivers so that stage has to be replaced.
This was a hot summer and the bench was cookin'. Winter is here and I am headin' back in.
If anybody is in a hurry then do it yourself. I always post steps of progress or tests. I want what all you guys want. The extensive blaring has to be weeded through for any nuggets if any more are needed.

You want to know my theory?
The TPU is a recruitment program. Somebody should have figured it out by now. Too many involved with no results. What happens to the prairie dogs?

Question:
When a LC circuit or pole pig goes into hyper resonance because of unwarranted feedback, how does it self destruct without blowing the relays up channel feeding it?

Is this post all over the place? Not really. These things are related to the TPU.

The ZPF/ZPE information piqued my sight and is added to the que. I feel it is related. What else could it be? That is if the TPU is not sequential stun guns in a loop.
These 2 snippets are all that I feel are left in addition to resonance and self destructive feedback.

Any other ideas? We got audio, power, component, process, electrical, digital, physics, chemistry minds here... And all these have expended many hours and delivered facts to no avail...

'I am not finished' equals 'Haunted'.

Quote
the whole TPU business is not my cup of tea.  And I am also not very knowledgeable with respect to power electronics.  But I do know the basics about how transformers work.

I am only left with the hard-ball question; "It's 15 years since 1996 and the SM TPU seemingly only exists in the imaginations of the forum enthusiasts.  Where the f*ck is it if it is supposed to be real?"

MileHigh

Nothing new. Only fuel. The frustrated are left to die on the vine. Sorry, that is the game. So what does one get when they smack a coil real hard in resonance? I am tired of losing equipment to EMP blasts. I am pro at this. I could end up in jail as a 'Lone, crazed gunman' with the damage I can do. For what end? There has got to be a fine line in all of this...


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I'm not sure if MH is aware of this, but it's worth repeating that Steven Mark, the inventor, tells us the TPUs are not overunity devices, but simply energy conversion devices or a type of radio receiver, that are tuned to a frequency (around 5000 Hz or so) and operate on magnetic fields.   I believe him.   As such, I can say that there are lots of TPUs around, under the disguise of magnetic wireless power.  MIT guys are working on it, and Intel, and a few companies already have products for sale.   However, all these products are different in design than the TPUs.  They are basically tuned LC circuits, and they couple through the magnetic field, but the TPUs, while making use of the magnetic field, uses a different approach at extracting energy from the fields.  It's such a unique and powerful technique that the DOE wants to keep it under wraps, so we are told.



Check out these videos for example, all resonant magnetic coupling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZx_qI8BlM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OlOexol5NI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYqxH8lGznA&feature=related



« Last Edit: 2011-09-06, 09:55:04 by EMdevices »
   
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EM:

I am so tired of hearing the old "energy conversion" line.  I view that as the "get out of jail free" card that so many people play from both sides.  For most cases, they are normally not talking about the electromagnetic spectrum or sound energy or radioactive particles, etc.  Science has a pretty good handle of all of the different forms of energy out there.  The "other source of energy" is not definable and not measurable but it's there.  Right.

If people are so convinced that there is unknown energy out there that various devices "convert" then why not try to build an "unknown energy detector" for starters?  Just a lousy detector, not a working device.

I made the comment where I said that people that allege over unity from their motors should scope the signals and show exactly where in the timing of the device the excess energy is manifesting itself in the real world.  At least show that if you can't explain what's going on, at least you have to be able to make some empirical observations that show the presence of the excess electrical energy.  Lo and behold, it appears that no one can do that.

For the SM device, from your background, can't you definitively state that there is no electromagnetic energy or alternating magnetic fields at around 5000 Hz that are pervasive everywhere?   That's a kind of electromagnetic "Manna from Heaven" argument.  It's just not real and I don't buy Steven Mark's "energy conversion device" argument.

The near-field magnetic resonant wireless power stuff is separate and distinct from Steven Mark's pitch.  For those systems, you plug your plug into a wall socket to generate the alternating magnetic field.

Some of you can believe that Steven Mark has figured out a "unique and powerful" system for tapping into an alternating magnetic field - but there is a problem here - I suppose that we are dealing with a magnetic field that "comes from somewhere but we can't explain it and we can't measure it."

I will try to watch the videos later.  I am not trying to give you a hard time either, I know that you are just giving me generic information about Steven Mark.  I suppose that I can end by saying (again) where is a device?  Also, I don't want to see it lighting a light bulb, I want to hear how it works explained to me and backed up with clear and unambiguous scope and multimeter measurements.  I am willing to bet that most of you reading this would bet that if there were new Steven Mark video clips released you would all expect that you will never see real measurements made with scientific instruments.  The best that you can hope for is to see a light bulb of unknown wattage being lit up with an unknown waveform and recorded by a camera with an unknown light sensitivity and unknown lens aperture setting.  So you will never know if you are looking at a 20-watt light bulb or a 150 watt light bulb.

You know it just occurred to me that there is almost a type of Stockholm Syndrome with respect to the forum participants that believe in free energy.  Whenever something promising comes along it's basically a forgone conclusion that you will see demos with huge obvious holes in the data and you will have to speculate endlessly.  If the holes are so obvious, why doesn't the person making the clip plug those holes and show the measurements that the people want to see?  Then you can expect the inventor to go underground and the device to be withdrawn from view or disappear, or, be taken apart.  There is so much conditioning of the "prisoners" that this is the normal state of affairs.

Okay, sorry for the rant but Steven Mark and the grainy black and white video is a classic example of the syndrome.  Steven is a dungeon master.

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MH

Thank you for not taking offense at my post although it could have been offensive.

My stance is this: I don't have the desire to spoon feed anyone about the TPU. The amount of information that was shared on at least three other forums, and one underground group was enormous. A lot of bright, savvy engineers and techs covered every angle you could imagine and spent nearly five years in the process.

We tried every imaginable way to debunk the information and videos, frame by frame analysis, video restoration, scrutinizing all of the available information with a fine tooth comb. Hidden battery theories and analysis etc.

There are many ways some of the devices could have been faked. Some, however were way more difficult to fake, but not impossible.

I would like to give up on the TPU but of all the devices ever presented, it has haunting incongruities that do not sit well with an outright rejection. I have tried to get away from it but cannot reconcile a few things.

Excuse me if I get a bit edgy when a newcomer has an instant analysis. I can only suggest one start with the first few pages of this thread. That is the tip of a giant iceberg, but there is so much more. You will not find it on the internet anymore, it has been buried.

Possibly some of us have it archived and can share it, but you have to have the taste for it, a few hundred hours to spend,  and an open mind (but not so open that your brains have rattled out).

If it was a scam, it certainly did not seem to start that way, and some quirk of SM's personality veered him from his original work, the work which which seemed to greatly interest Dr. Schinzinger

I discount many here, GK included, that talk with apparent knowledge and authority of what made the TPU tick. Many talk in circles or just like to hear themselves espouse their latest theory. They know little and have not delivered the repeatable definitive experimental proof of concept. Just talk talk talk. Empty, practically undecipherable rhetoric with all the buzzwords and cryptic inuendo.

edit: sorry for the shot GK, but you need to improve your communication skills.

This is not the language of engineering or how engineers communicate information. They do it with clearly drawn schematics and text that clearly defines every working aspect of the schematic including timing diagrams and data.

Successful projects, even where there are great unknowns, like the Manhatten Project, have project leaders and designers that pool the best minds into groups where their unique talents are harnessed to the goals accomplishment. Forums are more like a Keystone Kops fire drill.

I am pretty much fed up with the talkers, but I guess that's what forums are for, where the biggest ego's can shine like those lightbulbs they try to light.
« Last Edit: 2011-09-06, 15:35:39 by ION »


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To All,

How might the TPU work if it is real?
   
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Hi G

To properly study this we would need to propose maybe five theories in separate threads, and set our minds to studying each possibility.

We could select a panel of arbitors to appraise and grade the merits of each theory. I would choose you, exnihiloest, MH, AC, POYNT and Peterae and a few others.

We would have to be focused and not derail each thread. Those wishing to may submit a theory to be added, provided it is well researched. Then by process of elimination we might arrive at the goal of a working theory.

Otherwise it's Keystone Kops Fire Drill time again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZBdxvego1E


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I give you this:
The tpus thump and discharge huge sparks without arcing to the person holding on.

These two items are the starting point of any and all analysis.

One should start here to accept or deny the validity of the TPU. No?

With the experience and skills here this should be just a stun gun on a large transformer.

Lighting light bulbs is not a true test. We all know this. But SM runs a converter to a tv and drill.

If a fake is to be found then this is the place.

Discussing parameters of components and standard processes has not accomplished jack shit in 15 years. Shame on all of us since our ivory towers of knowledge are merely placards for the hopeless.

I do not hoard the dirt from piles of failed attempts but am merely sifting for the nuggets that i see apply to the two items at the beginning of this post.

I hope this level of eloqution is understandable and acceptable.

Maybe, just maybe lighting a lightbulb was SMs way of shedding a little light on a larger process.


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I have no problem with the use of standard incandescent lamps as a load provided the wattage is known and the lamps are pretested for power usage.

I am reasonably certain that there were no trick bulbs used in SM's tests. There were a lot of smart cookies present that would know the difference between a trick bulb, a 15 Watt bulb and a 100 Watt bulb, both in temperature and light output.

I find no problem with Dr. Schinzingers use of incandescent lamps in the lab report. I would have done the same thing in his shoes and having a limited amount of time for the testing. Metering instruments can be easily fooled by peaky waveshapes, the lamps integrate all this into a true RMS power output.

Those that have worked around power could easily tell you approximately how much is being dissipated by a red hot wire of a certain length, diameter, and material type.

So lamps are a valid test method.


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Incandescants can be lit by 2 methods. Two wire current or one wire electrostatic. SMs light bulbs were hot when running. This makes the tpu even more interesting.

But this is a minor after effect. Produce the thumping and the huge sparkage then the engine is started.
I do not see anybody addressing this and these are relevant effects or outputs since we dont have scope shots.


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I would agree with this and add a few more points, like the "stiction" washboard effect when clearly elevated on the pair of wooden table leaves. This may be either an interaction with the gravitational field or the magnetic field of the earth.

It was witnessed by many and a key clue, but we have no further trail to follow.

By thumping, I presume you mean the vibrational effects.

As for the sparking or arcing, there are two ways I have seen this type of effect:

1) extremely large inductance charged with sufficient DC current

2) high frequency RF type discharge
« Last Edit: 2011-09-06, 21:38:06 by ION »


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Thanks Moby,

Hard to see a youtube video on dial-up.  I can download at work if it is a file.
   
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Tried to download and post it for ya Budd, its too big, Its Dan Davidson speaking on shape power, i remember us looking for his book of the same name some years ago, and i thought you may enjoy the viewing of it. he also has a full seminar on the subject on TY these days.

And i guess since i kinda hyjacked the thread i should at least try to stay on topic, "Is the TPU real?" yes IMHO it is but (we) lack the proper material to make it work properly. as a math-a l33t, and this is my own opinion based on calculations derived years ago using the SWAG method, we would need to cause the summation of magnetic resonance somewhere handy the median spectrum of visible light, umm yeah,, around 430-480,THz, good luck with that in a copper and iron aircore coil as suggested by SM. and if ya can find a FET or any other switch that fast id love to read the data sheet.

with that said its not hard to build a big ass fuji blocking JT type circuit and alot of us did build these, some of those old farts are here on the forum ( You know who ya are!  :-X  lol ) the problem is/was heat. you get about 1 amp@100 V for 10 minutes then it burns up. the DC is garbage and hardly usable for anything but burning rosin off of magnet wire. far far far from OU. but they do make neat high output lights if ya can stand being around the RF they throw at ya. thats probably all the SM device really was any way, hell take a real close look at it with the fuji mod Joule Thief in mind.  thats my financed .02. and sorry to hyjack the thread.   :-X


 
   
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