The Small Toroid Discussion

giantkiller · 2012.01.03, 03:34:02

I switched to wireless usb last year.

wattsup · 2012.01.09, 17:41:23

So I received two of these CTs.
I'll keep one as is and rewind the other as per my SM toroid mapping I did years ago (lol).

This CT is a Simpson Model 01297.
You can see it on page 63 of their nice pdf catalog.
http://www.simpsonelectric.com/uploads/File/PanelMeterCatalog_Jan09.pdf

The CT ferrite is very close to the SM toroid dimension, this one is slightly thinner core but there are many core sizes in this type of CT .

wattsup

Added: This discussion was interesting.

http://www.control.com/thread/1026235833

Grumpy · 2012.07.16, 21:10:03

Quote from: ION on 2011.12.31, 19:06:09
Grumpy posted this from an unknown person:

QuoteWell, what I am saying is what I always have been saying, that just as the inventor says that the signal and the power are the same.

To me this means the excitation comes from the signal itself.
You don't have to add any excitation at all.

This is a possibility that should be explored. Is it possible that the right configuration of coils with a slight DC biias nulls out the normal magnetic field of the earth and allows electrons to circulate and wind up out of the thermal noise possibly due to some effect of gravity and the earth spin, quite possibly a coriolis type effect.

Pulsing coils may not be the answer to the "fire that feeds itself". SM alluded to all of this and gave many hints (if we are to believe any of it).

What has always intrigued me is the slow windup time of the TPU's or "turbine effect". I believe this to be a major clue. Maybe just creating the correct conditions allows the effect to wind up. Preferred pathways are slowly established in the conductor creating the windup effect. Perhaps similar to the "cup of hot chocolate" effect.

That quote is from username "Newton007". He was a retired teacher of radio and tv repair (high school level (US)). Strange fellow. He had moved to Colorado and kept saying that he could have to move again at any time. Like he was moving from someone or something. He made several warnings about a consortium he referred to as the "tiger" and how thay had "sharp teeth and claws", and said that I should fear and distance myself from them. He had a theory that the TPU was not pulsed directly and that the signal that excited it was also powered by it, so that it fed itself and could run-away if not detuned. He had other theories about energy from the sun, how the solar system worked, and turned me onto the book "Electric Sky".

ion · 2012.07.17, 02:30:58

G:

I still have an intuitive sense of rightness regarding what I wrote in that text last December.

The control circuitry may only be required to maintain the correct bias field and "tame" an otherwise runaway effect.

Glad to see someone is still interested in this.

Are there any clues in "The Electric Sky"?

Grumpy · 2012.07.17, 15:01:19

Quote from: ION on 2012.07.17, 02:30:58
G:

I still have an intuitive sense of rightness regarding what I wrote in that text last December.

The control circuitry may only be required to maintain the correct bias field and "tame" an otherwise runaway effect.

Glad to see someone is still interested in this.

Are there any clues in "The Electric Sky"?

Electric Sky is interesting, but not sure any clues are there. I haven't opened it in a long time. This book delves into some new explanations for things going on in the universe. Hmm - I'll have to look again. http://electric-cosmos.org/

Newton007 was looking for a passive way to induce rotation of a magnet - we used a compass. We each set up an experiment with shorted coils on large plastic tubes and the theory was that when the shorted coils were spaced apart at just the right distance, with the coils horizontal - tube vertical, then the compass would rotate. Most we ever got was about a degree or two of deflection. However, makes you wonder about the spacing between SM's top and bottom coils, and if this distance was adjusted or arbitrary.

Grumpy · 2012.07.17, 15:53:54

The book "Electric Sky" leads to a paper by Hannes Alfven in 1948, which leads to a very interesting experiment with a pool of mercury and a magnetic field which leads to the "magnetohydrodynamic wave":

It has three characteristics: it produces (1) mechanical motion, (2) a magnetic field, and ( 3 ) an electric field

http://www.catastrophism.com/texts/electricity-in-space/

then there's all of the particle drift stuff...

Grumpy · 2012.07.17, 16:03:57

read a little about magnetohydrodynamics and then you wonder if there is an electric version and there is: electrohydrodynamics

Then there is "aether hydrodynamics"...way out on the fringe!

giantkiller · 2012.07.17, 17:55:55

No fringe here...

QuoteIn addition there is strong evidence that gravity and mass itself is dependent on electrical charge

Also shown is mars then venus then saturn is an alignment. What has been falsely indentified is venus. It sits in the same postion as the asteroid belt.

QuoteThey have flat bottoms with conical central cones. The strata of the central peaks are undisturbed in many so-called impact craters

Same desolation pattern as Tagunska:

Quote
June 30, 2008: The year is 1908, and it's just after seven in the morning. A man is sitting on the front porch of a trading post at Vanavara in Siberia. Little does he know, in a few moments, he will be hurled from his chair and the heat will be so intense he will feel as though his shirt is on fire.

That's how the Tunguska event felt 40 miles from ground zero.

Today, June 30, 2008, is the 100th anniversary of that ferocious impact near the Podkamennaya Tunguska River in remote Siberia--and after 100 years, scientists are still talking about it.

"If you want to start a conversation with anyone in the asteroid business all you have to say is Tunguska," says Don Yeomans, manager of the Near-Earth Object Office at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "It is the only entry of a large meteoroid we have in the modern era with first-hand accounts."

Above: Trees felled by the Tunguska explosion. Credit: the Leonid Kulik Expedition. [more]

While the impact occurred in '08, the first scientific expedition to the area would have to wait for 19 years. In 1921, Leonid Kulik, the chief curator for the meteorite collection of the St. Petersburg museum led an expedition to Tunguska. But the harsh conditions of the Siberian outback thwarted his team's attempt to reach the area of the blast. In 1927, a new expedition, again lead by Kulik, reached its goal.

"At first, the locals were reluctant to tell Kulik about the event," said Yeomans. "They believed the blast was a visitation by the god Ogdy, who had cursed the area by smashing trees and killing animals."

While testimonials may have at first been difficult to obtain, there was plenty of evidence lying around. Eight hundred square miles of remote forest had been ripped asunder. Eighty million trees were on their sides, lying in a radial pattern.

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"Those trees acted as markers, pointing directly away from the blast's epicenter," said Yeomans. "Later, when the team arrived at ground zero, they found the trees there standing upright – but their limbs and bark had been stripped away. They looked like a forest of telephone poles."
Such debranching requires fast moving shock waves that break off a tree's branches before the branches can transfer the impact momentum to the tree's stem. Thirty seven years after the Tunguska blast, branchless trees would be found at the site of another massive explosion – Hiroshima, Japan.

Which way do sparks fly from an electrical short? Hot plasma exiting.

giantkiller · 2012.07.17, 18:10:46

QuoteAs above, so below

The Bible.
If only mankind would look at events and items with this mindset would we all be set free.

QuoteOne of the attributes that separates the human from the animals is our yearning to know about our world and our sky - to wonder about the cosmos and have a desire to find out how it works and what is up there. Another attribute is that we do not like to be told things that are untrue and have these ideas forced on us by people who claim to have superior knowledge and intellect. We have been told that we average humans are not capable of really understanding the cosmos - that it is inhabited by mysterious and invisible forces and entities that only impenetrably abstract mathematics can explain. We are told to just passively accept whatever the 'experts' tell us. We have become so intimidated by how complicated modern science has become that we throw up our hands and say, "You're the experts - we'll believe what ever you tell us." And they say, "That's good, because our continued funding depends on your feeling that way." What will the reaction of the taxpaying public be if and when they realize the full extent to which they are being bilked by the scientific power-structure?

Educated lay-people have abdicated their responsibility to think proactively and ask the questions that will keep science honest. It seems we would rather just lie back and believe whatever we read in "Discover" magazine. If 'they' tell us black-holes and dark matter exist - so be it. The public has become enthralled by the magic show that astronomy, particle physics, and some other sciences have become. Why does every TV 'science' program have background music that is more appropriate for a sci-fi horror movie? And a narrator's voice that sounds like God? The public apparently enjoys the magic, mystery-tour aura of most of present day science 'shows'. The ship of science, captained by astronomy and astrophysics, is not just steering a wobbling course - it is miles off track and it is intentionally laying down a smoke screen - implying that modern science has to be counter-intuitive and mysterious. The astronomical world badly needs a reality check. The challenges embodied in these pages constitute just that.

The present day peer review system determines which proposed research projects get funded and which do not. It also determines what results get published and which do not. At first it seems very sensible that any scientific field should be able to keep 'quacks and crack pots' from being funded and published. However, when any given area becomes controlled by 'experts' who have accepted a deductively arrived at theory, they tend to see any alternative data or proposed hypotheses as 'crack pot'. When those who steer the ship of science refuse to allow alternative hypotheses from even being discussed or investigated, let alone published, it is little wonder we are wildly off course. The general public thinks of science as always looking for new ideas. The sad truth is: it does not, certainly not in astronomy / cosmology. What it does do is constantly seek funding from friendly peer reviewers.

When we think about the travesty the Roman Catholic Church perpetrated against Galileo (waiting until late in the 20th century to admit it) we feel superior. WE modern folk would never ignore and suppress a scientist in that way! No? Then how about astronomer Halton Arp who was denied access to Mt. Palomar and refused publication of his work because the present day high priests of the Big Bang Power Structure found the publication of his photographs embarrassingly contradictory to their well-funded dogma? Would it not be educational to realize that we have just screwed up again - big time!

If the Electric Star hypothesis is even partially correct, there is no guarantee that the Sun will continue to shine for millions of years as we have been assured by the experts. What anxieties will this realization engender in a scientifically semi-literate public? But, it may be reassuring for them to know that Earth has much less to fear from a near collision with an asteroid or comet than they now think. Why have billions of tax payer dollars been used to support "accepted" solar fusion models and the Big Bang but none invested in any alternative ideas, however worthwhile they may be?

The fundamental challenges that are described in these pages contain the most potentially explosive ideas ever to have been issued in science. They constitute a cosmic reality check for the entire intellectual community. There is almost no field of academic endeavor that will not be affected in some way (or even overturned) by these ideas. Areas of science that refuse to honestly address these questions will become irrelevant.

Will it take another several hundred years (as it took Galileo) to gain official recognition of the validity of these challenges from those who presently occupy Fortress Science? Will it ever happen? I don't know. But does it have practical importance? You bet your pocketbook it does. The eventual outcome depends on the public's attitude - do you want the expensive magic show to continue - or do you want honest answers from science?

giantkiller · 2012.07.17, 18:15:14

Pride is our science...

Grumpy · 2012.07.17, 18:37:52

reading a little on magnetohydrodynamics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamics

I never knew that Faraday had attempted to measure this current:

QuoteThe ebbing salty water flowing past London's Waterloo Bridge interacts with the Earth's magnetic field to produce a potential difference between the two river-banks. Michael Faraday tried this experiment in 1832 but the current was too small to measure with the equipment at the time, and the river bed contributed to short-circuit the signal. However, by the same process, Dr. William Hyde Wollaston was able to measure the voltage induced by the tide in the English Channel in 1851.

======================================

and electrohydrodynamics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydrodynamics

I found this to be "peculiar", keeping in mind that the aether has been suggested to be a sea of charges immersed in a dielectric:

QuoteElectrohydrodynamics (EHD), also known as electro-fluid-dynamics (EFD) or electrokinetics, is the study of the dynamics of electrically charged fluids.[1] It is the study of the motions of ionised particles or molecules and their interactions with electric fields and the surrounding fluid. The term may be considered to be synonymous with the rather elaborate electrostrictive hydrodynamics. EHD covers the following types of particle and fluid transport mechanisms:Electrophoresis, electrokinesis, dielectrophoresis, electro-osmosis, and electrorotation. In general, the phenomena relate to the direct conversion of electrical energy into kinetic energy, and vice versa.

In the first instance, shaped electrostatic fields create hydrostatic pressure (or motion) in dielectric media. When such media are fluids, a flow is produced. If the dielectric is a vacuum or a solid, no flow is produced. Such flow can be directed against the electrodes, generally to move the electrodes. In such case, the moving structure acts as an electric motor. Practical fields of interest of EHD are the common air ioniser, Electrohydrodynamic thrusters and EHD cooling systems.

In the second instance, the converse takes place. A powered flow of medium within a shaped electrostatic field adds energy to the system which is picked up as a potential difference by electrodes. In such case, the structure acts as an electrical generator.

Peterae · 2012.07.17, 19:18:27

Quoteshaped electrostatic fields create hydrostatic pressure (or motion) in dielectric media.

This is known with regard to biefeld brown, if the asymmetric dielectric has something like salt water flowing through it then it will be propelled, i thought of using a brown cell well insulated to pump things like oil

No moving parts in a pump are beneficial, never got round to more complex tests or salt water.

Grumpy · 2012.07.17, 21:46:19

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.07.17, 19:18:27
This is known with regard to biefeld brown, if the asymmetric dielectric has something like salt water flowing through it then it will be propelled, i thought of using a brown cell well insulated to pump things like oil

No moving parts in a pump are beneficial, never got round to more complex tests or salt water.

The same principles can be applied to rotate virtual particles and develop a generator.

Shaped electrostatic fields create hydrostatic pressure (or motion) in dielectric media.

A powered flow of medium within a shaped electrostatic field adds energy to the system which is picked up as a potential difference by electrodes. In such case, the structure acts as an electrical generator.

Peterae · 2012.07.17, 21:59:07

QuoteA powered flow of medium within a shaped electrostatic field adds energy to the system which is picked up as a potential difference by electrodes. In such case, the structure acts as an electrical generator.

The important thing about a powered flow is to access a free flow maybe wind or salt water, i am hesitant to believe there would be much potential or a very efficient power conversion, i guess one could build an anode/cathode setup like a lifter and try it in wind to see if there if there is any power added, i am also not sure how the extra energy would manifest, if these problems were understood and the energy gained was fed back into the system then maybe a self powered propulsion system maybe viable

BEP · 2012.07.17, 22:03:24

QuoteIn the first instance, shaped electrostatic fields create hydrostatic pressure (or motion) in dielectric media.

This is how I pumped water through clear plastic tubing for my 8th grade science fair project. The water was lab quality from the science lab.

For years, classmates and teachers kept asking me how I faked it, even with the five page report on how it worked. I haven't seen any of the old contacts in years -- probably dead by now

Grumpy · 2012.07.17, 22:07:56

QuoteA powered flow of medium within a shaped electrostatic field adds energy to the system which is picked up as a potential difference by electrodes. In such case, the structure acts as an electrical generator.

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.07.17, 21:59:07
The important thing about a powered flow is to access a free flow maybe wind or salt water, i am hesitant to believe there would be much potential or a very efficient power conversion, i guess one could build an anode/cathode setup like a lifter and try it in wind to see if there if there is any power added, i am also not sure how the extra energy would manifest, if these problems were understood and the energy gained was fed back into the system then a self powered propulsion system maybe viable

or a self-powered generator, or both!

Find a very cheap way to create the flow. Passive methods are ideal, but not easy to figure out.

Better than looking for another energy source...

rotate stuff, get current at electrodes

Chet K · 2012.07.17, 23:41:43

GK
A sincere thank you for the comment on the "electric sun", seems the new nasa research vehicle in space is rediscovering very old and discarded news,and explaining some very perplexing anomolies .

Magnetic ropes forming between the sun and the earth on a regular basis,coming and going in seconds or minutes?[how cool is that!!]

http://www.thunderbolts.info/webnews/121707electricsun.htm.

seems there is a lot to discover ,also seems that fluids, electricity and magnetism are very interesting places to play!!

Have a great day!!

Thx
Chet

szaxx · 2016.08.03, 22:53:56

Has anything come to light on these mysterious centrepieces?
Thought I'd ask as its been a while.

ion · 2016.08.04, 03:15:03

Quote from: szaxx on 2016.08.03, 22:53:56
Has anything come to light on these mysterious centrepieces?
Thought I'd ask as its been a while.

..
Everyone has a different opinion regarding what the toroids are.

My opinion: Since SM worked in the speaker design business at Spherics Labs as Chief Engineer, he must have looked at methods of combining channels for a subwoofer system, which in those days were not amplified and merely the sum of the two channels with HF info removed from the woofers.

Spherics Labs did sell passive subwoofers with a pair of satellite speakers for the HF.

This is accomplished with a toroid choke with two windings. After much searching I found the attached pdf.

I do know from communication with Jack Durban that a lot of stuff was tossed out when Spherics Labs folded and Stephen did grab a lot, e.g. the plastic rings for the open TPU were part of the speaker grill assembly for the floor standing "pipe" speakers. Also speaker connection terminals can be found on the open TPU.

That's my guess. Occams Razor

Regards, ION

szaxx · 2016.08.04, 11:08:36

Thank you for the reply ION.
It all seems to have been over complicated, the razor gives this away lol.
I'll continue reading etc. Perhaps the whole system is hiding in plain sight.