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Author Topic: Sterling Allan going to So Africa to see OU device; seeks money  (Read 77689 times)
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While it's all very nice and pleasant to be politically correct - courteous, warm and fluffy, etc, at the same time the con-men and scammers are duping thousands of people and taking their money.  Why would you want to be polite and courteous to these people?  These con-artists rely precisely on the gulible folk that are always prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. You've just been robbed, and you say... 'Thank you'!

And, as regards focussing on the science, well that would be nice... except that we never get any real science from the likes of Allan, do we? He is simply out to sell a story - or has no one but me noticed that?

What I don't really understand, is that given Allan's 'adventure' is being funded by other people (whoever they are), surely these people would want to know exactly what he is doing with their monies... exactly what he is buying... specific details. I know I would!

Are there really that many people out there happy to blindly donate monies to this, with absolutely nothing by way of supporting evidence?  I mean there hasn't even been a picture of the device, the place it is being built, the builders, etc... and some of you folk wonder why I'm so cynical.

It's laughable that Allan seems to think this has credibility just because his call was put through via a receptionist!  ??? Probably some wooden shack with a tin roof, in the middle of nowhere with some guy's old his mama answering the phone.

I doubt the people funding this will also get a so-called 'Money Back Guarantee' from Allan.  But you never know, I might be very wrong. C.C
   

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Buy me some coffee
You talk about Fraud and how these conman take money from un suspecting people, yet all Sterling is trying to do is verify the claims, the sooner this is done the sooner the con ends and stops people in the future putting money into something that's a Fraud, it's a waste of time just condemning everything that comes along, that does not lead to a solid conclusion, it takes proof also to stop a fraud because until that proof is also there then it will continue for ever, look at the TPU given proof it was a fraud would have killed it there and then, if Sterling and other researchers had had a chance to get involved early on in it's launch then it could be a totally different story now.

Is Sterling doing the right thing, i think so, will it get resolved maybe/ maybe not but we will have a clearer view after he gets a device.

Trying to ad hominem attack Sterling doesn't actually stop the fraud by another person or am i missing something, so i don't quiet get your logic.

It's laughable that you are even in a position to comment on what Sterling even knows about the device, can you point me to a report that specifically list's the details obtained, or maybe the emails between Sterling and the other party that you have based your above post on.

i think it's also a good bet that anyone putting money into this would want to see what Sterling has before they place money in the pot anyway.

If the builders and analyzers hadn't built or spent time understanding how the Romero motor worked, then MileHigh would still be there on that thread slinging mud to this day and still would not have convinced anyone it was a fraud.

now we have the Ali circuit, lets all sling mud and not get anywhere or someone could try building it, or taking apart the simulation bit by bit until the device is understood, offcourse we could always just start slinging mud for the rest of our lives and not get anywhere, are you starting to see my point, or are you going to start slinging more mud which just dirties your persona's than actually achieve anything realistic for people to understand.
« Last Edit: 2012-02-10, 11:25:48 by Peterae »
   
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You guys seem to delight or at least persist in personal attacks on the man, in ad hominems; I find your continuing ad hominem attacks more of a reflection on you than on him.
...
I would rather wait for the experimental results.  He has already asked others to perform independent tests on the device that he is trying to bring over from So Africa -- and for this I congratulate his efforts.

PhysicsProf, your words are defamatory. You have deliberately chosen to propagate pesn gossip instead of "waiting for the experimental results", and these "guys" you are talking about, have only replied about the subject that you have yourself introduced: Sterling Allan.
If you have scientific matter about the south african device, you should show us, it will be surely much more interesting than promoting an incompetent who is seeking for money.

   
Group: Guest
You talk about Fraud and how these conman take money from un suspecting people, yet all Sterling is trying to do is verify the claims.
...

How could he "verify the claims"?! He is not qualified.
We have never seen Sterling making measurements or providing a technical relevant analysis of a device. He believes or fakes to believe almost every new claim of overunity machine without rejecting the old ones that was proved false by skilled experimenters. In the field of free energy, he promotes everything and every claimant. Outside of this field, his website is considered as a propaganda for conspiracy theories. He is unable to frankly discard the scams or the inconsistent models. It is clear that he is neither an experimenter nor a scientist nor an inventor himself and not even aware of the laws of nature. If one day a scammer shows him a rod of shit while saying it's chocolate, he will say "it's chocolate". A kind guy but completely unskilled.
His only interest is that he puts all announces of free energy on his website. If there is a device that works one future day, it will be on his website, and so he could play the good guy saying "I told you so!". Great!  ;D.

   
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 @pre-debunkers:  Why don't you back off a little?  I've already noted that Sterling is having independent labs test the device under question.  Why don't you wait for those results?  

  I have donated to Sterling's efforts to have the independent-lab testing done.

  
   
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Where can we find the independent labs tests for the hundreds of previous machines that Sterling promoted?
For example for this one?

   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Ladies and Gentlemen.....
(Drum roll please)

If Allen wants to promote the good will of the planet then let him do it on his own dime. But even then that does not give him status of a self imposed promoter. Do you see my point here? He finds something, so what. Why do humans promote the discoverer? Because they are too damn scared or lazy to do it on their own. So alongs comes somebody, self appointed, to [fill the gap]. In so doing they assume to [fit the bill]. He or Greer nor anybody else is my representative.
But then again we are going to need a prairie dog at the shoot out....

Lets say he has a sponsor. The sponsor says [ask for donations] and see what happens. You keep the donations, I foot the bill, the technology becomes my property and you sterling, get to promote it. You know, kind of like a front man. We keep this agreement secret and everybody wins. Well almost. The sponsor gets the technology and Sterling is left high and dry but in a position telling everyone it works. How does it work, Sterling?

He once contacted me to harvest my efforts. I told him [No]. No doubt this spurred his desire to acquire even more so.

Perfect.....


Quote
Dr. Jones is the BYU professor who was racing neck-and-neck with Pons and Fleishmann of the rival University of Utah to the north
They are all in Utah.
Even more perfect...
« Last Edit: 2012-02-10, 17:21:44 by giantkiller »


---------------------------
   
Group: Guest
I came across this statement in the pesn article:
"The report, written in November of 2010, says that the unit ran for ~100 hours continuous (with monitoring/security cameras to detect any interference) producing 4000W without an external power source."
This implies that the device produced 400KWh. NiMh batteries produce 300Wh/liter, i.e. 300KWh/m3, which is of the same order. We see on the photo that the volume of the device is at first glance around 1m3. So for the moment, the presented device is still compatible with conventional electrical means (contrarily to the Rossi's e-cat).


   
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Perfect.....
Quote
Quote
Dr. Jones is the BYU professor who was racing neck-and-neck with Pons and Fleishmann of the rival University of Utah to the north
They are all in Utah.
Even more perfect...

In 1989 and thereafter, I strongly challenged the claims of P&F of d-d fusion without neutron production.

OTOH, our claims of d-d fusion WITH neutrons have been confirmed in experiments performed in Japan and in Europe, and published.  The attached delineates several of the relevant peer-reviewed publications.

Eventually, experiments provide the answers and end the initial uncertainty, but alas, not necessarily the mocking by those who decline to look at the published, peer-reviewed confirmations.
   
Group: Guest
...
Why do humans promote the discoverer? Because they are too damn scared or lazy to do it on their own.
...

They promote a discoverer because the discovery is of interest for every one and they are grateful, not because they are too damn scared or lazy to do it on their own. Every one have a part in the discovery. An inventor succeeds because beyond his own competence, the material and intellectual environment (for example the means for his education) has also allowed and helped him for discovering. Would Tesla have invented all his devices if he had not studied electrical engineering at the Austrian Polytechnic in Graz? Not sure at all. So the success of an inventor is also the success of the community, the human organization, whose competences are in all fields, not only in the field of the invention. Those who would be too "lazy to do it on their own" may have respectable contributions for the final result, even a SciFi writer who would have given the interest for science to the inventor when he was young. An invention is the result of the general progress in ideas, science and technology.

Quote
So alongs comes somebody, self appointed, to [fill the gap].
...

We don't need the gap to be filled. This is parasitism.
Promoters are especially necessary for bad or not working products. Today it is very easy to let know an invention when it is real. Some experimenters duplicate it, then they say it works and others try also. If the invention is really interesting, it is rapidly spent all over the world and a commercial activity can begin.

   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
What I was getting at is 'Good luck to him and his efforts'.
This device will propel [forward thinking] businesses light years ahead of any competition who maintains a greedy grasp on subscription based old technology. History is full of this.
But this technology needs no subscription for the user to be holding to a supplier. And that is the crux of all this. Pity the fool who thinks they can advertise. The only way is not academic or business acumen but societal publishing(hand to hand). Originally I thought I would put self sustaining wells in third world contries for free. But then reality struck... The powers that be would take over. No? Watch the movie [Age of stupid] or [Food, inc.].

The [lazy] camp are basically those that don't know the concepts of what we are trying to do. I am in the [scared] camp. I have military aircraft with top secret technology flying over my house. Neighbors and I have seen aircraft just blink out of view at a distance of 500 feet. You can still hear them but they cant be seen. That means they are sniffing the ground also.

My stepdad was one of the first to put fat slicks on motorcycles. Alot of guys died till the tire technology got better.
Skate boards were illiegal for a while when I was young. Alot of kids got serioulsy hurt or killed playing on the best roads.

We are pioneer thinkers.
That means we do things not readily accepted by others.
And this is good. In this case I do not need the accolades of society because of the impact to those that are already in the wealth.

This has been and still is a good adventure.


---------------------------
   
Group: Guest
...
We are pioneer thinkers.
That means we do things not readily accepted by others.
And this is good. In this case I do not need the accolades of society because of the impact to those that are already in the wealth.

This has been and still is a good adventure.

Thinkers or dreamers? It is one thing to invent the skate board and quite another to invent a free energy device that would work according to unknown laws of Nature. When a real machine will be produced, we could say that we were thinkers. I consider that now it is a bit premature and immodest.
In any case I agree with you that we don't need "the accolades of society", and that this is a good adventure. I think that the idea of adventure is what really link us: to please ourselves with fun, new technological toys, and a challenge to the tools and habits of the society. I'm pleased to hear this kind of speech O0, instead of the pretentious vanity that we encounter often in our domain and that says: "I work for the humanity and its happiness"; pull the other one. 


   
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Would the chance of a free energy machine equal to winning a lottery?  Lottery is about 1/180mil .  If the chance of free energy is 0, then I encourage everyone to stop wasting their time.  Obviously, all of us in here do not think the chance is 0 (if you are, you wouldn't be here lol ) .  Now come to an important part.  If you buy a lottery, you might have a chance to win.  If you don't buy the lottery, you can confidentially for tell the your future.  The mistake in logic I see most from skeptics are: They can't distinguish the difference between 0 and .00000000000000001... chance . lol
   

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If you buy a lottery, you might have a chance to win.  If you don't buy the lottery, you can confidentially for tell the your future.  

Aha! Oh!, The security they must feel in knowing the en devour is hopeless, pointless and a waste of time. The honor they must feel in being the one to 'correct' any such attitudes or efforts.... or, correct the enjoyment of such learning experiences and hobbies.

No. I doubt it. More than likely it is just that misery loves company.

Quote
The mistake in logic I see most from skeptics are: They can't distinguish the difference between 0 and .00000000000000001... chance . lol

Didn't you know? You must seek out that numeral '1' and eradicate it, regardless of how far to the right of the decimal. There is only TRUE or FALSE... ZERO or ONE.

Perhaps the creators of the skepticbots believe they are improving our chances by flushing those with less knowledge of the real-world impossibilities?
(As in.... Down the toilet? Or create the impression that ones thoughts and attempts belong in the toilet? Or the target person simply belongs in the toilet?)

Constructive criticism should be welcomed and taken as a positive offering.

Relentless pummeling with insults, name calling and post bombing is nothing more than the lack of enough intelligence to see that your target must learn on their own and wishes to do exactly that.


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
Group: Guest
...The mistake in logic I see most from skeptics are: They can't distinguish the difference between 0 and .00000000000000001... chance . lol

Fallacy.
The incompetence I see most from believers is: They can't distinguish the difference between the .99999999999999999 of devices that don't work and the possible .00000000000000001 of devices that work.
The skeptics just say to the believers presenting their .99999999999999999 of not working devices, that their devices don't work.
If the skeptics thought that the .00000000000000001 chance was 0, they wouldn't even reply about the not working devices of the believers. The case would be closed.

   
Group: Guest
Fallacy.
The incompetence I see most from believers is: They can't distinguish the difference between the .99999999999999999 of devices that don't work and the possible .00000000000000001 of devices that work.
The skeptics just say to the believers presenting their .99999999999999999 of not working devices, that their devices don't work.
If the skeptics thought that the .00000000000000001 chance was 0, they wouldn't even reply about the not working devices of the believers. The case would be closed.



Haha... every argument has its counter argument.  Yes, I do aware of this argument before I put down my thoughts.  And yes, it is also bad to believe 100% as is.  But on a fair scale, the believer is doing much better than skeptics.  Their awareness of themselves being wrong is higher.  One can tell by seeing which side has more ego. 

If the skeptic think the chance is 0, of course the case is close.  That's why I say they can't distinguish it.     
   
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Sterling is providing updates at PESN...  http://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/

For example:

Quote
February 11, 2012; 4:45 pm Johannesburg

Very impressive -- both the technology and the company. I'm convinced.

I'm under NDA, so I need to pass my report by the company first.
Also, I need to take a nap.

I'll be with them again this evening for dinner at around 8 pm.

- - - -

February 11, 2012; 8:08 am Johannesburg

I'm looking forward to going over to Sam's facility in about an hour from now. About three other scientists will be joining us.

I wanted to mention that we've pulling in around $3,000 USD toward shipping costs, thanks to all of your generous support. I'm guessing that shipping will cost almost as much as the unit, so we're about half way there.

It looks like my seeking to change my biological clock two days prior to arriving here has helped me adjust to the 9-hour time difference. 'Feels like a new day, rather than time to go to bed. I've also been taking melatonin when I go to bed, which both helps sleep and helps adjust the biological clock.

- - - -

February 10, 2012; 11:56 pm Johannesburg

I'm finally here. They've put me up in a gorgeous, small hotel. Posh digs. Sam and his son, Hussein picked me up from the airport, and we had a brief chat on the way here.

Tomorrow morning, after breakfast, I plan on meeting Sam here at 8:30 to visit for a little while before going to their facility to see the technology. Keith will join us at 9 am at the facility. Johan will join us at around noon.

Here is what I learned, briefly, in the car:

Sam is a wealthy businessman who has financed the inventor's R&D. He owns the building where the facility is, which has a number of other things going on as well.

Sam, apparently, doesn't know what "solid state" means (no moving parts). I'm not surprised, and I don't have a problem with that. It's not uncommon. Hence representing kilowatts as Kw rather than kW, for example.

According to Sam, the system entails a driver, DC motor that is connected via direct drive shaft to an AC generator. In the 5 kW system, the DC motor is powered by two 12-volt batteries connected in series, making 24-V (the master set). The back EMF from the DC motor is fed into the slave batteries to charge them.

The output is a constant 5 kW (not load following).

The switch between the master take a few nanoseconds.

The "magic" (my word) is in the circuitry that handles the electronics. Without this circuitry, the batteries would run down in maybe 20 minutes.

Sam says that every electrical engineer and professor type that he has brought in, will tell him all the reasons why this wont work, until they see the system running. Then they want to get involved.

Quote
Finally, I wish to address a frustration that has been aired regarding my statement that PES and associates would be rewarded for facilitating this technology. Let me say that the amount of people being rewarded is going to number in the billions before too long. I wasn't talking just about a handful of my closest associates. I'm talking about business opportunities for hundreds within a few months, and indirect ripple effect of opportunities for thousands more, then millions, then the entire planet, as free energy is finally vindicated in the public's mind, and they realize that we don't have to live in poverty as slaves to the corrupt New World Order that has been suppressing such technologies for at least a century.

If, after all this, you still feel frustrated about having donated to make all this possible, only to see us at PES end up with a sizeable donation in our bank account, we would be willing to refund your donation if you ask.

You may or may not agree with the man; I appreciate his efforts.

   
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I have been following and posting on this one and it's become kind of "Keystone Cops" comical.

Poor Sterling flies all the way to South Africa to see a definitive demo of this over unity device and he doesn't even get a lousy t-shirt out of the deal.  You can pretty clearly deduce that he saw a box filled with big batteries power a load for perhaps 15 minutes to a few hours.  He then posted that he was "convinced."  Some number crunching on battery volume and battery energy density was posted thanks to Exn and it's blatantly obvious that nothing could have been proved at the demo.  For lack of a better term, it appears that Sterling was shown some "blinking lights" and he was convinced.  So he flew all the way to South Africa for that.

I don't want to prejudge here because I don't know the precise details.  However, when you make inferences and you know the track history and recurring patterns for devices and companies like this, that's what all of the direct and inferred information is pointing to.

Then, to make matters worse, "Sam" offers to give Sterling a "free" five kilowatt generator and he accepts, even though he had the donated cash on hand to buy one!!!  These boxes are supposed to "start shipping" at the beginning of March 2012.

And, Sterling signed an NDA so he can't say anything!  It's a farcical comedy yet again.

Sterling flies to South Africa to see a definitive demo of a working device and actually buy one from the company.

Sterling will end up coming home with nothing, unable to say anything because he is under an NDA, and you can say with some confidence say that the "free" unit will never ship!  He has no leverage to get a unit back to the States for testing!  The people that donated money for an actual device are SOL.

It's comical, life being stranger than fiction!

MileHigh
   

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Quote from: MileHigh
...

I don't want to prejudge here because I don't know the precise details.  However...
...

When we do things which we claim we do
not want to do, it is generally because of
the pleasure felt when performing the "act."

Hopefully, we shall soon have a much better
understanding of what Sterling's journey has
witnessed.

It is truly unfortunate that MileHigh isn't in a
position to do the same sort of exploration
that Sterling has done.  One must wonder what
sort of reporting would emanate from his pen...

Have you ever been tempted to embark on such
a career MileHigh?

Quote from: MileHigh
...

Sterling will end up coming home with nothing, unable to say anything because he is under an NDA, and you can say with some confidence say that the "free" unit will never ship!  He has no leverage to get a unit back to the States for testing!...
...

Wouldn't it be an awful shame if the device
was seized or confiscated at the port of
entry into the U.S.?



---------------------------
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair
   
Group: Guest
Yes indeed there is pleasure in pointing out the folly of life sometimes, just look at satire.  However there is a lesson inherent in the message, although it's evident that not everyone will take heed of the message.

Why people in the realm of free energy that are believers don't want to ask the critical questions is hard to understand sometimes.  Mark my words, Sterling will hopefully give all of the details behind the demonstration and it will be obvious that you could not draw any conclusions from what was presented.  Going further back than that, the company itself made promises of a definitive demo without mentioning any kind of time requirement.

Sterling could have made a deal to do a JustinTV live streaming event where he could vouch for the start of the testing as being legit and then a watch could have been setup 24/7 around the world to make sure there was no monkeyshines going on.  Not perfect by any means but still a valiant attempt.  Three cameras, some analog clocks in the frame, some electric space heaters hooked up to voltmeters and ammeters, some live temperature sensor data, and so on.  In theory with some planning ahead of time you could make it very difficult for the company to cheat.  Do 10 days worth of live streaming and have a running total of the number of joules put out by the device.  The target being to verify that the device could put out 10 times the initial battery energy capacity.

That's "uber outside the box" thinking for your typical free energy enthusiast that's not technical.  You absolutely need a live brute-force energy burn done by the alleged free energy device either live in front of people or as a live streaming Internet event with all the bells and whistles like I just said.

So if I was going to go in and report on these guys I would go in with an agenda like just outlined above.  Now assuming they are con artists my ass would be booted out the door and I would be considered a "hostile reporter."  If they were real, they would welcome the testing.  And, alas, it would appear at this point in time that all Sterling got was 15 minutes of "blinking lights."

MileHigh
   
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Hi guys, It's comments like these that make me wonder. Sam has no idea what he is talking about "according to Sterling". Then Sam proceeds to explain how the system works.  :o  Ignoring the back emf thing (which annoys me no end) it sounds like the setup is charging a second bank of batteries while the DC motor is being powered from a primary set of batteries to turn an AC generator, sounds familiar. If it is truly outputting 5 kilowatts of excess energy then why the need for all the batteries ? Sounds like at least four batteries are used.

Quote
Sam, apparently, doesn't know what "solid state" means (no moving parts). I'm not surprised, and I don't have a problem with that. It's not uncommon. Hence representing kilowatts as Kw rather than kW, for example.

According to Sam, the system entails a driver, DC motor that is connected via direct drive shaft to an AC generator. In the 5 kW system, the DC motor is powered by two 12-volt batteries connected in series, making 24-V (the master set). The back EMF from the DC motor is fed into the slave batteries to charge them.

I'm still yet to see a valid explanation of how back emf can even be collected.  ;)

Cheers

P.S. It would appear as though the master and slave banks are switched like (E.V.Gray style) which by the video's of Grays system only extended battery run time and most likely shortened the life of the batteries dramatically.

..
   

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I'm still yet to see a valid explanation of how back emf can even be collected.  ;)


When you do let us know how it could be anything more than part of the energy applied.

Anyone can apply less than a watt to a simple circuit and get back 5kW.

Back EMF is just a buzzword in this community because the majority of folks don't know what it really is.

If it has eight legs an skitters across the floor - step on it.

If you see terminology you don't understand then it is 'The Answer' !

Maybe we should bottle it in liquid form and sell it. I'll bet the attempt will be profitable.   ;D


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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Quote
Very impressive -- both the technology and the company. I'm convinced.

I think Sterling and Chet are related - perhaps distant cousins.  ;)

Quote
February 12, 2012; 1:45 am Johannesburg

I've changed my return flight to pass through Athens to go visit Defkalion on my way home.


Hell man, why didn't you simply get your supporters to pay for a 'Round the World' cruise and be done with it?  C.C
   
Group: Guest
...
But on a fair scale, the believer is doing much better than skeptics.  Their awareness of themselves being wrong is higher.  One can tell by seeing which side has more ego. 

If the skeptic think the chance is 0, of course the case is close.  That's why I say they can't distinguish it.     

1) The believers have shown not one working device until now, not even a promising idea confirmed by facts (except Rossi's e-cat but it is not free energy), so their contribution to the free energy is null.
2) In despite they have not one working device, they have made hundreds or even thousands claims of free energy machines. So not only they have nothing, but also they jam the field of free energy, discrediting it, and letting waste the time of experimenters who must verify their premature announces and their stupid ideas. They are counterproductive. The believers are a handicap for the free energy research.
3) The skeptics search for free energy. They have not more success than the believers, but they are much more discreet because they have neither a big ego nor the need to express a faith and convince themselves. They are also generally more technically skilled so they don't confuse conventional observations with anomalies and miraculous free energy.
4) The energy that is now used in the world comes from discoveries of the scientists, who are skeptics. The skeptics have not free energy, but they have provided means for producing energy. They are not vain contrarily to the believers.
5) The believers fail because their methodology is wrong: it is based on blind beliefs, on denying academic knowledge, on ignorance, not on the facts. They want to believe there is free energy everywhere and consequently they see free energy everywhere where they are searching, while there is nothing.
6) Only the doubt can lead to free energy, by discarding all conventional results and by keeping the subtle observations that are really new, unusual, not yet explained, and are a possible way to unknown physics. The doubt is a positive attitude which is the fundation of science.


   

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Buy me some coffee
Ex can you remove yourself from posting on this forum, i keep reading the equivalent of telling someone driving a car to stop filling it with fuel, or telling someone that smokes they can continue to smoke as long as they don't buy any cigarettes, what you say is a waste of time reading and does not make any sense on a free energy research forum.

I am getting very tired and starting to lose my Patience, get over the fact that people in life say things that are not true and try to con people with fake devices, i have not seen anyone on here trying to sell a free energy machine that has not been proven to work, so stop going on, there will always be believers and non believers, this forum is for believers that seek the truth by research, and further the possibility of a working device.

Anyone who does not believe step forward i can easily delete your account to save us all the wasted time of reading your posts.

Farrah
Quote
I think Sterling and Chet are related - perhaps distant cousins.  Wink
What research did you do to reach this conclusion.
   
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