The Lockridge device

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mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #275 on: 2012-12-02, 23:28:49 »

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All this seems to be confirming a wave wound rotor but for now we can continue with the lap wound one as I want to recover energy from it and stop that arcing you have. While we are trying to reverse engineer the lockridge, if we find we can use a standard rotor, it makes it easier for people to produce these generators. Im not a purist, the self runner comes first. I suspect that my design of wave winding would be the most efficient followed by the wave winding of the old days with the lap winding being the worst. My method of wave winding is in fact the simplest winding possible but results in the most arcing, that is why it is the worst winding for a normal motor and probably the best for the lockridge.

So what I would like you to do is place a second set of brushes on your commutator set at 180 degrees from each other. Then we need to rotate them to the best recovery position and see what effect that has on our output. The problem is what to do with the collected energy and how do we prevent our input current following that path. If it is DC then we could direct it to a charging battery through a diode but I am worried about exploding the battery if it arcs in the plates. If it is AC and we use a bridge rectifier we could create a different path for our supply current reducing overall motor power

With my design of wave winding, these problems are eliminated completely and recovery from the armature is simple, but it is worth persisting with the lap wound armature to see if we can come up with something because the recovery brushes are common to both designs and if we can make a simple modification of a motor instead of a complete rewind, it is easier

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #276 on: 2012-12-04, 00:39:09 »

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Posts: 137

Quote from: mbrownn on 2012-12-02, 22:01:41

Yes, I might have someone else to build a motor then we can compare results. It is good that you can keep this first prototype and build a second unit as that then gives us three units that we have figures for.

How many amps are you running at 20v?

41-45 amps never got time to do any thing today. Hopefully this week i can start on another unit to be tested.

mbrownn	Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #277 on: 2012-12-04, 08:12:20 »
Newbie Posts: 246	Wow, that is huge power. Are you still only able to light 3 100w bulbs with that? If so we have an efficiency of about 33% which is in the range expected for such a motor.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #278 on: 2012-12-05, 16:23:11 »

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Posts: 137

Quote from: mbrownn on 2012-12-04, 08:12:20

Wow, that is huge power. Are you still only able to light 3 100w bulbs with that? If so we have an efficiency of about 33% which is in the range expected for such a motor.

Havent tried to light any more bulbs than three. Just a rough test with a volt meter off the armature running is a little over 29 volts dc.
The odd part now is most of the arcing is gone from the negative brush. So the motor coils need to be moved some against rotation to try get that effect back. Gets confusing when looking at it from the commutator end. becaues it turns the otherway looking at it from the pully end.

So that we are on the same page the generator coils Im am using are the generator coils i sent you a picture of out of the starter-generator from that golf cart . At a ratio of average 10 volts in to 112volts out. Hope this clears this up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Been following the tinman at E/F. the heavier winding on the armature is for the starting. just like a regular starter. The starter=gen motors i have here from cub cadets, some of the armatures are built this way. most of those 2 regular slots make up 1 slot to carry the heavier load for starting. i also see that his armature is wound to the left. Which could be for positive ground. Didnt look to see if the brushes cover 2 slots or just one. Most likly 2 forstarting thats why so many armature segments. the odd number is what i dont understand. Shoulb be at least divisible by 2. there must be an offset in the timing there for the motor and gen sides so there not fighting each other when it generating. Will have to see how many comm segments in between the brushes and where the feild poles are lalighned up at and where the power comes in at and if its 90 or 180 from each other.

Just some of the things i was thinking about when looking at his pictures.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #279 on: 2012-12-06, 04:08:33 »

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Posts: 246

I think we need to get it on a scope to see what is happening.

Yes Tinman has an interesting generator.

Here is my reply so the others can see it

Quote

Both wave and lap windings can have two windings in parallel so it does get difficult to identify them by just looking. I think that the drawing is just to identify that two different wires can be used and not to identify the size of the wire or it would be mentioned in the text.

The cap is probably to prevent arcing at the contact and so does not need to be large in capacity.

I was thinking it may be shunt wound myself after reading the pdf.

It is very common to have an odd number of segments on a commutator, there are several reasons why, one of which is to stop resonant oscillations building up high voltages and arcing. I am not sure but it may be the case that these are all lap wound. The imbalance between the armature and stator causes the current from the inductive kickback effects, to pass around the armature and dissipate instead of oscillate.

Even though there is an odd number of segments there is still an even number of magnetic poles when the armature is in operation.

We have not yet identified what type of winding you have.

Hiwater, who is building and testing my lockridge theories, is suggesting that your armature is similar to some of the starter/generators used on club cadet golf carts. I cant be sure what those armatures are either as I don't have one. He suggests that they are for carrying the heavy current when starting but I don't know how that is done. He also noted that your armature is wound the opposite direction to his and wondered if it was for positive grounding but I think it may be just built for a different direction of rotation. Maybe you could shed some light on this, Is it positive ground?

He also corrected me on the voltages he is getting from the device "So that we are on the same page the generator coils Im am using are the generator coils i sent you a picture of out of the starter-generator from that golf cart . At a ratio of average 10 volts in to 112volts out. Hope this clears this up. Sorry for the misunderstanding."

At the moment I am not advocating rewinding the armatures as we have not yet established what the windings are and new possibilities have exposed themselves under testing.

Personally I would keep that generator on your engine unmodified and get one of these delco starter generators that hiwater is using to experiment with.

@tachyon, Tinmanpower is correct, there is little information about this device other than from John Bedini and Peter Lindermann. The device that John has, is an attempt at reconstructing the original. We have little to go on but through simulations I have been able to come up with several possible solutions but what works on a simulator does not always work in practice. We are now putting the knowledge gained through simulation into practice on real motors. I believe I have solved the geometry problem of the stator and why the slots are in the case. This alone is evidence to me that this is a real device.

Now we are working on the armature possibilities starting with a lap wound armature even though I believe the original was wave wound. We have to prove what can be done and what can't as well as why. We have had an unexpected level of arcing in our armature so we have to test what this is and how to take advantage of it.

As of now we don't have a fully working device to show everybody and we could be following a wrong path so I don't want to send people on a wild goose chase. Once I have something established as a possible part of the device I will let you all know. We do have a very unusual motor generator that has some interesting characteristics that need further investigation.

I would watch the EFV 14 video, pay close attention to all the parts and what John says about what it did while running. There are a lot of clues there.

Hiwater	Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #280 on: 2012-12-06, 15:30:15 »
Full Member Posts: 137	To connect up the scope. Does both the motor and gen wave need to be on the screen. Another question. Do the scope leads go to the input on the motor and output leads on the gen side. Dont know much about using one . But ill try my best. There should be something on the net i can find.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #281 on: 2012-12-07, 04:58:49 »

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Posts: 246

Quote from: Hiwater on 2012-12-06, 15:30:15

To connect up the scope. Does both the motor and gen wave need to be on the screen. Another question. Do the scope leads go to the input on the motor and output leads on the gen side. Dont know much about using one . But ill try my best. There should be something on the net i can find.

Ideally yes, then we can see any phase shift between the input and the output.

Yes one set of leads goes to the input and one to the output but here is where you have to be careful with a Variac. One of the leads from the Variac may be grounded, It should be marked, you must make sure that the ground of the scope lead is connected to this otherwise you will short your variac through the ground on your scope. The output will not be grounded so no problem there.

This grounding is the only difference you need to consider with a variac, so I will say it again. the probe needs to go to the live terminal on the variac and the other wire on the probe goes to the grounded output of the variac.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #282 on: 2012-12-08, 03:16:13 »

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Quote

Originally Posted by Tinmanpower View Post
Hi MrBrown
I have built a few of this design.The first 2 or 3 never worked as i thought they would,until i worked out were i was going wrong.
My first designs were very much the same as ufopolotics motor designs he is working on now.
I see that he has come a long way in what he is doing,but i believe there is a more effective way to achieve what he is trying to achieve.

Through many experiments with the standard ssg pulse motor,and modyfied circuits of my own design-i discovered how to totaly reverse the lenz force effect.
Infact when a load is drawn from the generator coils,torque is added and current consumption is reduced.

The generator coils must be seperate from the drive coil's,except the flyback from the switching off of the run coils must be sent through the generator coils at just the right time.

The coils as wound on the rotor in a normal fashion will not achieve the effect needed. The coils need to be wound so as they are at a 90* angle to what the normal windings would be.

The easiest way to do this is by haveing the perminant magnets on the rotor,and the drive and generator coils as the stator.
I have found the drive coils and generator coils should be in a 18* v(this is the best angle i have found so far in my testing)
The open side should be the side that faces the rotor magnets.

With one input pulse,you get 3 generating output effects.
The system is not too complicated,but the results are well worth the time and effort.

The idea was to use the generator coils that when they have a load attached to them,would act as the second coil in a bucking configuration.
The system grew from there.
The next progress made was sending the kick back from the run coils,through the generator coil,s.
This resulted in a second bucking coil situation-but in reverse,where as the backEMF current produced by the run coils is sent back to the run battery via a FWBR hooked up in a certain way to the run coils.

What also must be kept in mind is that while all this is happening(the bucking effect),the magnetic field between the run and generator coils gains in strength-thus pushing harder on the rotor magnet's-or pull harder if in an attraction mode setup.

Triggering i have found is best if a reed triggered darlington transistor is used to power the run coil's
A hall switch setup would also work well,although i have decided to stick with the reed's

In a 12 volt setup and useing a 1k ohm between the reed and base of the transistor-no arcing of the reed is noticed.

I have not reproduced this anomalous lenz effect myself yet but have started to research to identify the possible cause. In a paper that I believe was written by Dollard, I cant find it now, it talks about how the effect works under certain conditions.

One of these conditions is to do with coil saturation. The coil is to be operated where the saturation has gone past the linear part and is on the curve where it flattens out. That is, increasing current is no longer increasing coil saturation in a linear way as the core is almost fully saturated. The problem here is, to do that by pulsing requires relatively long pulse durations. This then gives us a problem in that the inductive kickback will not recover all the energy put into the pulse.

It seems to me that the Lockridge has the answer and it is the trifilar coil. This coil is wound around the motor thus pre-saturating the coils, now we can pulse the coils in this condition. This is speculation and has to be tested experimentally. It could be that the magnets on an SG is providing the pre-saturation.

Your method of moving the coils to 90 degrees is probably an improvement on the original Lockridge configuration but may not be necessary. It seems to be possible with the coils placed on the poles as in a normal motor but we have to remove the BEMF to do it.

The "Squires" video talks about how BEMF is created and suggests that it is the lateral movement of flux within the core of a coil. Turning the coils through 90 degrees as you do achieves this but there is a simpler, if not quite as effective way of doing it. What seems to confirm that I have succeed in reducing the BEMF is the fact that our motor is drawing huge current.

Normally this current would produce higher motor speed and torque but we do not see that as the generator circuit is absorbing the torque. The way our motor works means that it will not run effectively without the current being drawn through the generator coils and so it hides the increased torque although audibly you can here the motor is under load.

We are not pulsing the motor effectively yet and we do not have the trifilar coil so we cant test my third paragraph yet.

We are already experiencing acceleration under load but it is not this lenz effect, it is in fact a transformer effect. The more current we draw out of the transformer, the more current the transformer draws from the supply. The more current that is drawn through a motor, the faster a motor goes.

I have not been following UFOs work and I understand he is doing good work, its just I don't have the time. The same is true of other threads so I apologize for not being up to date on that. I sometime chip in when I think something I am doing is relevant to what they are doing but it isn't always appreciated hehe

The only bucking in my motor is the generator coils, everything else is in attraction.

Your use of inductive kickback is interesting and I will take that into consideration when we get to that stage.

Hiwater	Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #283 on: 2012-12-13, 15:16:49 »
Full Member Posts: 137	Havent had time to finish working on the replication. Maybe this week end ill get some time to resume the work again. Just to letyou know what is transpiring. Hiwater.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #284 on: 2012-12-18, 00:21:20 »

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I was able to get some time in on the project. replicating something right in front of you isnt that easy. I did have to pull a couple of winds off the 2 motor coils, to make them narrow enough for the gen coils to fit in between. But then the gen coils when tightening the pole shoe down spread out away from the pole shoe dropping the voltage way down.

So i had to untape the gen coils and find some used cloth wraprfrom an original starter feild coil and squeeze the one gen coil together and wind that cloth on there tight. Then I made a fixture to hold the gen feild coil sides straight when i tightened down the feild coil. This was left set over night to set in that position.

The next day i took the coil out of the temporary fixture an put in the replication generator. there was just enough movement to slide the gen coil back and forth about a 1/2 inch, where it wouldnt rotate and where it would rotate. The voltage out put was 51 volts ac.

Talk about a project. at some point i have to redo the gen coil pole shoes they have to be right tight to the sides to get any voltage if not 1/2 the voltage. also there cant be much angle on the pole shoe edges and the armature slots they have to be pretty much parallel. Other wise you only get 19-20 volts out of th coil.

So soon as i get time I will redo the other gen coil and put in the rep motor. then we can get along with other set of brushes and get you some scope shots of this thing running. So dont leave me stranded out here in the sticks. I know this is taking some time to do, but lately I havent had that much time to work on this. But i havent given up.

mbrownn	Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #285 on: 2012-12-18, 23:13:44 »
Newbie Posts: 246	I wish I could be there to help, It can be frustrating especially when things don't work as well the second time. Keep at it when you can, we have made so much progress and with the discoveries you have made there is much more going on that I first thought. Our failures is where we learn the most so don't get put off by them.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #286 on: 2012-12-19, 05:09:40 »

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Posts: 137

Quote from: mbrownn on 2012-12-18, 23:13:44

I wish I could be there to help, It can be frustrating especially when things don't work as well the second time. Keep at it when you can, we have made so much progress and with the discoveries you have made there is much more going on that I first thought. Our failures is where we learn the most so don't get put off by them.

Why dont you fly over to help me. Love to have you. My wifes a good cook. Thank you.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #287 on: 2012-12-20, 01:35:04 »

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Posts: 246

I would love to and to visit Steve, one of my hero's but earning less than $10 a day that won't be on the cards for a long time

Hopefully next year things will be better because I am trying to start a new business. I have a financier which helps a lot but of course they make more out of it than I do. Anyway here is the web site http://bayanihanconstruction.yolasite.com/

I should be able to get a starter motor soon so I will see what I can do with that. I have been thinking about the problem of tuning the motor, It may be better if we rewind the rotor but if you only have one rotor, I don't want you to do it yet as we have to investigate what can be done with the standard windings.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #288 on: 2012-12-22, 04:03:07 »

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Posts: 246

I have been discussing some concepts with Tinman, below is my reply to him, I post it here because I think this may solve one of our problems on the output.

To date there is only you guys and Tinman that knows where I am going with this.

Quote

yes, I would love to read his book. I will update you and others on my research as time goes along, the premise goes like this.

Using a trifilar coil and a single diode, it may be possible to turn an AC signal into DC in a similar way to a bridge rectifier. The input coil receives the signal, the secondary is shorted through a diode and the third coil gives the output through a diode. The secondary is a compensation coil but only in one direction.

Now if we apply this to a motor, the primary is the motor power coil. The secondary is the inductive compensation coil. The output coil is wound on the inductive compensation coil. The Pulsed DC would result in AC being produced in the compensation coil and the output coil. The diodes allow current to flow in only one direction, so in one direction it is flowing in the output and in the other it is flowing in the compensation coil. through transformer actions between the two coils the the compensation current flows in the opposite direction in the output thus we have full wave DC on the output.

This is important to the lockridge, if it works, because we have AC being generated in the output coil as well as DC. Again, if this works we will have the combined generator action and rectified AC in the output coil instead of them fighting each other.

This is not the trifilar coil wrapped around the case but a bifilar coil and a single coil actually in the motor case. I have noticed that one of Gray's motors had this configuration too.

I don't know if this will work and I have never seen it talked about so I will have to build and test it.

Mike

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #289 on: 2012-12-23, 23:02:37 »

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Posts: 137

Quote from: mbrownn on 2012-12-20, 01:35:04

I would love to and to visit Steve, one of my hero's but earning less than $10 a day that won't be on the cards for a long time Hopefully next year things will be better because I am trying to start a new business. I have a financier which helps a lot but of course they make more out of it than I do. Anyway here is the web site http://bayanihanconstruction.yolasite.com/

I should be able to get a starter motor soon so I will see what I can do with that. I have been thinking about the problem of tuning the motor, It may be better if we rewind the rotor but if you only have one rotor, I don't want you to do it yet as we have to investigate what can be done with the standard windings.

Looks like you might have a full time job with those houses. They are really nice. Hope it all works out good for you.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #290 on: 2012-12-24, 01:41:45 »

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Posts: 137

There isnt much room for anything else in these generator cases but AIR. I did try a small transformer on the original motor-gen. But what I found out

there only has to be enough laminations to hold a small magnetic feild or other wise every thing from the out put coil gets absorbed by the core. So i

put 2 different coils together and taped them tight . Think i got about 80 volts out of it. i was doing some testing to see what it would do. Been a

while ago now.

I under stand what your sayiing about the triffilar coil. On a side note I should have some more to report by the end of this coming week. holidays coming up so should get some shop time.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #291 on: 2012-12-24, 04:33:08 »

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yes, its an impressive website considering we haven't done 1 house yet, basically it is import and assemble, all made from steel, although we are doing some concrete panels too.

My computer went down, windows de registered itself and shut down, so I have installed a free form of linux called Gnewsense but don't really know what I am doing with it. I don't even know how to install a program.

I had a long discussion with erfinder about the new coil arrangement I have come up with, he is impressed and is confident it will work. what it means for us is we replace the generator coil with a bifilar coil or wind another coil over the top. Again it is another experiment to do with the stator. Erfinder says we have to eliminate the diode on the secondary if we can because of the impedance and that makes sense. The only way I can think of at the moment is to open circuit the coil but we can try with a diode first.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #292 on: 2012-12-31, 01:29:58 »

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Posts: 137

Well i finally finished the replication m-g. It was a tough to get to do what is supposed to do. but I now have 125 volts out of the gen coils and it speeds up when the 3 bulbs are turned on.
One of the problems was the slots in the case i am using. The other original one didnt have slots in the case. It had the 2 motor coils but 1-cw and 1- ccw was the only I could get to speed up under load and get the 125 volts out. This second on with the slots has to have 2 cw coils in.to get it to rotate cw. with the slots in and 1-cw and 1-ccw coil will rotate ccw. So the slots have some bearing on how the magnetic feild travels inside the case.

I believe also there doesnt have to be a very wide slot maybe about 1/8 inch. Mine are aboput a 1/4 inchwide. Once i had the generator coils formed and tight to the pole shoes it worked pretty good. I also had to find 2 identical motor coil to use along with the same pole shoes. that was a task in it self. Finally found a pair out of a detroit deisel engine starter with the right pole shoes. So now these can be ordered custom fit for any one to replicate.
Another thing is most of these generator cases are cold rolled with a gap in so i welde the seem part ways. The slots must be like an air gap in a transformer. I think you mentioned a few pages back.

There is still quite a lot of arcin off the trailing edge of the negative brush. it does go away some when a load is put on the gen side.

The next thing is to put the extera set if brushes in. Depends on how close to the other brushes they need to be. Looks like they might have to be reversed to get them to fit properly. Unless they will work a couple of comm sections away. I dont know.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #293 on: 2012-12-31, 01:50:20 »

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Posts: 137

For got to mention, about the pulsing technique. i do have one made to pulse once every revolution. Do you think that it should be pulsed quite a few times every revolution, to get a better charging effect.

Give me your opinion on this. i do have some extra commutators. im probably forgetting a few things. So if there something i havent mentioned feel free to ask.

At least now , what we have can be replicated.

from initial starting it does rotate and pick up in speed and increases in speed when the bulbs are turned on. To get the true transformer effect the motor coils and gen coils can be moved some. Then it wont start rotating untill a load is put on the gen coils. thought I would clear that up.

Right now i have to try and figure out how i can get those other brushes in ther close enough. If they need to be right next to the original brushes. Might be a problem, unless i reverse the rotation and puit it ccw. It might be easier. There would be more room. will have to wait and see, I guess.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #294 on: 2012-12-31, 02:09:29 »

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Posts: 137

On the biffilar coil is that the genrator coil (1) or is this on both gen coils. the generator coils can be made biffilar.by dividing them in 1/2 and putting them back in place. The just 1/2 of the coil would be used for generation. Wher would the other coil connect. im getting lost on this one.

This would most likely lower the out put voltage by 1/2. I would assume. To try and wind another coil around the ones in ther cant be done, no room.They could be split like i said though. Then maybe could tie the ends toghrther to make a series coil which might give out more volts. I did just that a couple of years ago , cant remember the results tough. I thought it removed some of the armature reaction. But dont quote me on it.

I do have some extra original stock gen coils maybe i can check it out again to see how it reacts.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #295 on: 2013-01-01, 04:49:50 »

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Posts: 246

Thanks for the update, yes the slots do have an effect on the magnetics, the FEMM showed that. It also showed that the greater the gap the better it should work. Is your experience different? The air gap I talked about is the gap between the armature and stator, If there is a coupling across the slots then the slot width will be critical and it isn't something I anticipated. We will just have to investigate it.

The direction of the windings is interesting because the G field, Kromray and many fettuchini generators have this same configuration (CW CCW and connected in series). The only problem is you cannot get measurable results, it will light bulbs and power motors but when you measure the volts and amps it does not add up to the obvious watts being produced. This is a method erfinder has been working on for some time. This may or may not be significant to the Lockridge, I don't know. Again we will just have to investigate it. Please watch the videos fettuchini has done on the kromray and G-field, you may see something in them that is significant.

The lower the impedance of the load, the less arcing I would expect on the armature, as the compensation action of the generator coil is more efficient, but we will need to make use of this build up of voltage so that leads us onto the brushes.

I would guess that the brushes need to be at least one segment away from the power brushes but there is more. If the brushes are wider than a segment, they will short two coils out on the armature, exacerbating the voltage build up. Even at one segment width this will be happening which to me offers us two possibilities. Either this is how the Lockridge produces its gain or we are using the wrong armature winding. Once again we will not know without testing so we will press ahead with this winding for now. If it is a different winding then we still need the brushes and I suspect they will be in exactly the same position so we have not wasted any effort. I would suggest that we do this before we start to pulse it.

On the pulsing, Lindermann has seen fettucini's machine and suggests it pulses once per rev in some of his posts however I do not believe this to be the case if we have to rewind the armature. If the armature is standard then it is possible. How are you going to pulse it? is it a separate commutator? How frequently it is pulsed and the duration will set the motor speed requirement, because we do not want to oversaturate the windings as our recovery will be less efficient.

The fact that we can replicate this is excellent because it will be a requirement in the scientific community. It takes this away from being a black art into being a science.

The rotation atributes is exactly as I anticipated but when we start to pulse it there will be no self starting, we will have to spin it to get it going.

I suspect that the bifilar arrangement will have to be on both output coils but there are many options here.

1) we use the 3 o'clock power coil as the compensation coil with the diode.
2) we power both the 9 and 3 o'clock coils and use one of the generator coils as the compensation coil with the diode (I don't think this is right)
3) only one of the generator coils is bifilar wound so that the compensation coil is included on it.
4) Both of the generator coils are bifilar wound so that they are both compensated. (my favourite)
5) this is a dead end and we are barking up the wrong tree

If it is my preferred option then maybe we might not be able to power the 110v bulbs because you have less turns but only testing will show this. If this is the case we may have to reduce the number of turns on the power coils but obviously this will increase the current draw. Once we are pulsing this will be less of a problem.

At the moment I suspect our power and generator coils are in resonance, it would be nice to keep this configuration so it may mean we reduce the number of turns on the power coil by the same amount as we do on the generator.

I think you have a lot of work to do there and unfortunately no one else is doing it to help you however I did show erfinder your last posts and it has got him excited enough to start experimenting with universal motors

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #296 on: 2013-01-01, 05:21:49 »

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Posts: 246

My chat with erfinder

Quote

[8:05:28 PM] erfinder.: mike..
[8:05:39 PM] mbrownn1: hi
[8:05:48 PM] erfinder.: did you know that the universal motor doenst need field windings to operate?
[8:05:59 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[8:06:46 PM] mbrownn1: cool isnt it, its an induction motor
[8:06:53 PM] erfinder.: thanks for witholding that bit of info
[8:07:10 PM] mbrownn1: I thought you knew that
[8:07:14 PM] erfinder.: you free to voice chat...
[8:07:24 PM] erfinder.: i dont know everything...i just blab like i do...
[8:08:12 PM] mbrownn1: lol, farmhand posted about it
[8:08:49 PM] erfinder.: guess i missed that
[8:10:40 PM] mbrownn1: It just proves matt wrong
[8:10:58 PM] erfinder.: wrong about what..
[8:11:10 PM] mbrownn1: I think that ia why farmhand did it
[8:11:36 PM] mbrownn1: no transformer action in a motoer period
[8:12:08 PM] mbrownn1: motor
[8:12:35 PM] erfinder.: yep
[8:12:44 PM] erfinder.: its definitly transformer action
[8:12:54 PM] erfinder.: smart move on farmhands part
[8:13:03 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[8:13:11 PM] mbrownn1: I like farmhand
[10:09:48 PM] erfinder.: that guy working on that motor for you...
[10:10:19 PM] erfinder.: does he have a cap in the circuit somewhere around and or between the armature and field windings
[10:10:32 PM] mbrownn1: no not yet
[10:10:37 PM] erfinder.: hmmm
[10:10:58 PM] mbrownn1: we just working on the motor generator and transformer effects

At this point I sent him your last 3 posts

Quote

[10:14:15 PM] mbrownn1: This was his latest update
[10:16:12 PM] erfinder.: hmmm
[10:21:41 PM] erfinder.: hes makiing me a believer ....
[10:21:51 PM] mbrownn1: lol
[10:22:12 PM] mbrownn1: It reacts in a very interesting way
[10:22:41 PM] erfinder.: just do me a favor
[10:22:54 PM] erfinder.: before you guys stray too far away from the norm....
[10:22:59 PM] erfinder.: investigate everything....
[10:23:06 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[10:23:12 PM] erfinder.: this two pole universal motor is showing some weird behaviour as well
[10:23:20 PM] mbrownn1: yes they do
[10:23:47 PM] mbrownn1: Its the most interesting motor of them all
[10:25:01 PM] mbrownn1: A universal motor will work as an induction motor two ways
[10:25:26 PM] mbrownn1: short the armature and power the field windings
[10:25:46 PM] mbrownn1: short the field windings and power the armature
[10:26:13 PM] mbrownn1: in both cases you can also draw power from one of the field windings
[10:26:39 PM] mbrownn1: If you do that you get a build up of power in the armature
[10:27:19 PM] erfinder.: you can draw power but its reflective..
[10:27:31 PM] erfinder.: you end up drawing from the source...
[10:28:04 PM] erfinder.: the goood thing is its phase shifted to the proper degree , and this load doesnt decelerate the device
[10:28:05 PM] mbrownn1: not sure what you mean .. you get transformer action and the build up in the armature
[10:28:31 PM] erfinder.: drawing from the field winding preforms a very specific function
[10:28:37 PM] erfinder.: the field current drops
[10:28:43 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[10:28:52 PM] erfinder.: you have less currnet moving in the field adn more in teh load you attached...
[10:29:00 PM] erfinder.: when the field current drops the device accelerates
[10:29:17 PM] mbrownn1: hehe interesting isnt it
[10:29:31 PM] erfinder.: its standard behaviour...
[10:29:45 PM] erfinder.: the thing is no one is taking advantage of the effect
[10:29:54 PM] mbrownn1: exactly
[10:30:08 PM] erfinder.: operating a unviresal like this makes him a rotary transformer
[10:30:16 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[10:30:20 PM] erfinder.: with the ability to accelerate when loaded
[10:30:25 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[10:30:32 PM] erfinder.: its not a true generator....
[10:31:03 PM] erfinder.: and in my opinion making it a gen will prove difficult owing to the phase angles not being where they should for proper generation...
[10:31:16 PM] erfinder.: now this is technically a blessing
[10:31:37 PM] erfinder.: if all were where it needs to be, we would have a mexican standoff
[10:31:42 PM] erfinder.: you dont have to take my word for it
[10:31:54 PM] erfinder.: simply get a cap and place it across the armature
[10:32:03 PM] erfinder.: pulse the armature with the cap in place..
[10:32:16 PM] erfinder.: you have a variable LC when you do that
[10:32:42 PM] erfinder.: next take the field and place a cap of half the capacity that you have across the armature
[10:32:53 PM] erfinder.: this will get them pretty close to hwere you want them to be
[10:33:08 PM] mbrownn1: Hmm not tried that
[10:33:21 PM] erfinder.: what will happen is as soon as the field is shorted by the cap the voltage in the field will shoot through the roof
[10:33:29 PM] erfinder.: depending on your input voltage
[10:33:57 PM] erfinder.: you can have 200+ in the field windings manifesting,
[10:34:14 PM] erfinder.: this higher emf has its price, the supply is forced to deliver more current to the device
[10:34:40 PM] erfinder.: this effect if reversed is of great pracitical application
[10:35:22 PM] erfinder.: its generating a higher potential thanks to the cap in field coil circuit
[10:35:50 PM] erfinder.: ive noted an increase of 100:1 in potential just by adding the cap
[10:35:59 PM] mbrownn1: wow
[10:36:09 PM] erfinder.: boring i know....
[10:36:13 PM] mbrownn1: lol
[10:36:48 PM] mbrownn1: I think the universal motor is the most underestimated motor
[10:37:26 PM] mbrownn1: It shows sighns of gains no matter which way you use it except the normal way
[10:37:37 PM] erfinder.: its unfortunate that the brushes are in the wrong spot ...
[10:37:44 PM] erfinder.: cant do the generator over motor
[10:37:44 PM] mbrownn1: yes
[10:37:48 PM] erfinder.: so that the gen causes rotation
[10:37:58 PM] erfinder.: cant have everything
[10:38:06 PM] mbrownn1: thats why you need a 4 pole
[10:38:21 PM] erfinder.: not really
[10:38:22 PM] mbrownn1: then move the brushes through 90 degrees
[10:38:35 PM] erfinder.: you dont need a four pole
[10:38:52 PM] erfinder.: depends on what one is after
[10:39:05 PM] erfinder.: you can simulate 90° phase shift by adding a cap
[10:39:09 PM] mbrownn1: you can do it with 2 but there is a mechanical imballance
[10:39:09 PM] erfinder.: thats what ive done...
[10:39:21 PM] mbrownn1: ahhh
[10:39:24 PM] erfinder.: and thats why i said if it can be reversed it would be of immense practical value!
[10:39:46 PM] erfinder.: the 100:1 increase in voltage is GENERATOR ACTION!!!!!!!!!
[10:39:57 PM] mbrownn1: lol
[10:40:09 PM] mbrownn1: not sure but its a big gain
[10:41:56 PM] erfinder.:

Erfinder did not really see the value in the concept of the Lockridge but the results you are getting has really woken him up. He has been working on motors which have the G field concepts in it as well as other things he does not want me to talk about. Trust me I think he is going to produce an overunity generator sooner or later but it will be different to the lockridge. We spend hours discussing various things which helps me figure this out, usually he disagrees to some extent but now a light has lit up in his head

He is the only one that I know is taking our work seriously. Peter Lindermann has gone silent.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #297 on: 2013-01-03, 17:04:48 »

Full Member

Posts: 137

I havent really tried a very narrow slot in the case. just from observing what was going on I figured that the slots might not have to be that wide.

Still havent figured out how to put those extra brushes in. Might have to figure out how to make some streamlined brush holders so I can get them close enough to each other.

As far as pulsing goes, the one i made was i pulse per revolution. I will probably rework that to fit the shaft and try it again just to verify how it works. Then use an old commutator to add more pulses per revolution. HOW DO YOU TELL IF THE COIL GETS OVERSATURATED?

I can space the pulsing unit so it comes on or off most any wher on the face of the feild pole.

I read through the conversation you had with erfinder. Two brilliant minds. One thing that stood out to me in that conversation was the power in the armature. The armature and the extra brushes seem to be part of the key here.

A couple days ago i started trying to put a armature designed for 110 volts into a housing with a set of generator coils. The armatiure has a ring on the shaft that is grounded where the 110 volts is taken off for the output. It works the way it was intended, when putting a load on it , it really drags the motor down. Since then my knwledge has increased so i thought i would give it a try again with a different set of generator coils. The thing i dont like is that it spins at such high rpms. That way ther would be 2 places to take power from the ring and the extra set of brushes. Just an idea i had that might be worth pursuing to see the out come. Ill keep in touch.

mbrownn

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #298 on: 2013-01-04, 02:44:44 »

Newbie

Posts: 246

My gut instinct tells me that the slot will have to be 5/16ths to 3/8ths wide to prevent leakage of the flux sue to the saturation levels that we will be operating at.

I need to correct myself here, the coil can be fully saturated or not fully saturated, not over saturated as such as it will leak flux.

If the coil is not fully saturated the flux density will increase until saturation occurs, the density of this saturation is proportional to the current times the amps. The core, if made of iron, is the same except there is a point reached when the iron cannot hold any more lines of flux within it. at this point the flux leaks out. The plot of saturation starts linear and then levels off with a curve. I understand the best place to run our motor is on this curve (squires video).

If our core reaches saturation the efficiency of the transformer action will drop off, It is possible that at 30A we may be some way to that point although starters do draw 100s of amps so I think we are ok.

A DC motor and a normal AC motor both operate with the iron saturated to the level set by the ampere turns but below the irons limit on saturation. Pulsing is different, the voltage jumps up vertically and the amps ramp up after this with the saturation trying to maintain balance with the current. just before the equilibrium is met, we want to turn off the voltage so that the inductive kickback makes the current ramp down. The plot of the voltage is a square wave and the current is a triangle with the steepest slope being on the ramp up, this is the opposite to the normal situation. As the power in the ramp down is based upon the iron saturation being dissipated we want to pre saturate the core to some extent before we ask it to do this therefore more energy can be obtained in the desaturation. This pre saturation is done by the trifilar coil that is wound around the motor, now when the pulse occurs it takes less energy to to reach the point where we want to turn off the pulse. Our iron will be reletively close to the saturation limit before we pulse, this reduces inductance and allows high current. at the point we switch off we have all the energy in the pulse and the pre saturation available for the inductive kickback. After this has happened, in the off time the trifilar coil re saturates the core in preparation for the next pulse.

Have you seen the squires video?

Thanks for the complement, but I am not as quick thinking as erfinder, I am more plodding but very tenacious. He is very excited about that power in the armature, I just think how can I recycle it.

Keep trying those different armature configurations, you may find something, the slip ring should enable you to draw off the power in the armature but your generator coil voltage will drop. This may be a better solution than the second set of brushes. Do some measurements both for the armature and the generator coils, don't forget to do volts and amps.

Hiwater

Re: The Lockridge device « Reply #299 on: 2013-01-08, 00:59:39 »

Full Member

Posts: 137

BLACK TAPE------This will make you pull your hair out. I found out that you cant wrap the generator coils with it, It must sheild the copper wire from the out side light force charging those coils. Took me some time to figure this out, it act like a sheild. soon as it took it off my voltage come up to where it was supposed to be. So I used some old cloth from another coil and wrapped the Gen coils. Then used a small peice of black tape to hold it in place.
I did get that other motor going, but that slip ringI believe is grounded at the center of the sine wave. I get nice white light out of it on 2 bulbs in parallel. Then the motor slows down. Withe the bulbs in series is better but the brightness suffers and the motor doesnt slow down as much. Very little in fact. Iv gone as far as I can with it for now.
Si Im going back to my replication #2 motor to make a pulsing unit for it. Still looking for some other brush holders that I can use in there. Slow process but I want to go thru all the avenues.
Thanks for explaining the core saturation to me. im beginning to understand some of this. By either moving the brush holder or by rotating the case we can desiginate how much coil saturation we want on the feild poles. More likley where it stops saturating.
No I havent seen the squires video yet. soon though. its just about time for that. just the brushes and pulsing unit left to do.
I like the theory on the triffilar coil . Im going to read it over a few more times so that i can relate it to the feild poles. So there might be some questions on that. Thanks.