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Author Topic: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices.  (Read 196994 times)
Sr. Member
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Posts: 375
Yes, I've seen that video before. Honestly, I have to say that I don't believe that it is for real. But they sure are using some fancy test equipment.

In that case sometimes it is just best to follow and do a test instead of belief. Then see what results will be so you can have clear ground for discussion... ;)
   
Group: Guest
Heres a replication,is it a prank? Is tinmans device a prank :D
The motor is from a power drill that had a chipped gear,this setup is to
show you how you can be tricked,however it uses key things I believe
tinman used in hes device.It is not possible to say a device is fake for certain
from a video,however if you can replicate it in a fake way,it most likely is fake
If you try and fake a real device  you can do it,however other factors have to be taken into account
to determine if the chances are its fake,this type of thing I've done to the tpu and
Kapanadze's devices,this is Kapanadze's device's,not the other fake devices claiming  there Kapanadze
replications.The motor is powered by a power supply,the meters show current and voltage of both the motor and lamps,the lamps are 12v auto lamps.Normally I don't get involved unless I feel a device maybe real,however
this is such a brilliant possible prank,I couldn't resist the challenge.
   

Group: Tinkerer
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tExB=qr
I think anyone showing a working device that produces electricity with no input or an output that exceeds the input, will receive a visit from unsavory people, after which you will be not showing the device again.

So, if the inventor has not been visited then the device is probably not real.

There are a few people I know of, who got the "visit":
Steven Mark
Spherics
RomeroUK
Hendershot
Stephan Marinov (suspected visit)
Energia Celeste (also suspected visit)

There are some gentlemen in the 1980's that I have heard of who built large toroidal devices. One placed a unit on his roof and his home was destroyed by a tornado.  This effect is expected, considering to the comments in letter from Geza Korcsmaros to Hendershot.  An open-field device will rotate ions above/ below it.  There are a few recent articles around of research confirming ion concentrations preceding the formation of tornadoes and earthquakes.
   
Group: Guest
@cp2012: Awesome demonstration! I have several guesses as to what's in the Black Box. (A hamster with electrodes in his ears? Another battery or two? Electric eels? )

@Grumpy: But how are "They" to know if the device is real or not, without making a visit in the first place? Some of the YT videos from the "unvisited" claimants have fooled a lot of people on the forums, after all. So... as I sometimes say... "They" are either a lot smarter than the average forum member... or "they" just don't exist at all.
   
Group: Guest
I don't think it's a prank by Tinman, (not that I think it over C.O.P. = 1 either), but I'm fairly sure I recall Tinman stating some time ago that he had anomalous power from his so called Rotary Transformer. I think he genuinely believes he has something or did believe, whichever.

It's all beside the point unless he divulges the required info to replicate or properly analyze the setup. Not much different to a text insinuation of having something, no solid evidence shown at all.

The M.I.B. Claims seal the deal for me. And besides with or without the M.I.B claims the resulting information given is not much use for making head nor tails of anything.

..
   

Group: Tinkerer
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tExB=qr
"They" can tell by either detecting some known effect from the device or by its configuration and claimed results.
   

Group: Tinkerer
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tExB=qr
is this Tinman's last video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmayxefg8A8

   
Group: Ambassador
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G
No that is not the Vid in question,these were a series of 3 measurement protocol Vids with much input from the Crew at OU.com .
it was a Black box affair [the DUT] no disclosure of operating principle.
The Only thing unusual about the Vids were the Public measurements and the fact That Mark E [of much Notoriety
to the measurement community  he hires out to do this sort of thing professionally for investors] was personally guiding TinMan through a test procedure
which he felt comfortable with...Much scope shot and Meter scrutiny ,back and forth for quite a few days until it was at a fetching for straws
"one last Thing" scenario for the test over site crew.

Then POOF..............



   

Group: Tinkerer
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tExB=qr
Did the box show more out than in? or were were they struggling to show that?
   
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One unit in ...1.8 out.so yes He showed OU results in the Vids
Rock solid up to the point where they were removed by Others.

also it wasn't a black box per say ,but an electric motor with special undisclosed internals....
   

Group: Tinkerer
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tExB=qr
Removed by others?

by who?

That's it, no friendly visit?
   
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One unit in ...1.8 out.so yes He showed OU results in the Vids
Rock solid up to the point where they were removed by Others.

also it wasn't a black box per say ,but an electric motor with special undisclosed internals....

 >:-)
Not quite rock solid. He showed OU... OR he showed some kind of subtle measurement error. Or even both, or neither one. The jury, at least in my hemisphere, is still out on that one. The motor stalls when the output is connected to the input or battery supply in an attempt to self-loop. IIRC TinMan said he would try a DC-DC converter to get around this problem. This is a good idea but I don't know if he ever actually did it. Also, my suggestion about "daisy chaining" was never addressed. In fact, TinMan went dark, IIRC, just after I posted that suggestion.   :'(

I've repeatedly made the claim... or is it a statement  ;) ... that with a true COP of 1.3 or better in a device with electrical outputs and inputs, I can make it self loop. In this case it should be especially easy since both input and output are low-voltage DC at moderate currents.  ???  But will that get me a visit from the "Others"?  :-[

And the "box" wasn't black, was it? It looked more like a galvanized-silvergrey color to me.   :P
   
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Posts: 336
>:-)
Not quite rock solid. He showed OU... OR he showed some kind of subtle measurement error. Or even both, or neither one. The jury, at least in my hemisphere, is still out on that one. The motor stalls when the output is connected to the input or battery supply in an attempt to self-loop. IIRC TinMan said he would try a DC-DC converter to get around this problem. This is a good idea but I don't know if he ever actually did it. Also, my suggestion about "daisy chaining" was never addressed. In fact, TinMan went dark, IIRC, just after I posted that suggestion.   :'(

I've repeatedly made the claim... or is it a statement  ;) ... that with a true COP of 1.3 or better in a device with electrical outputs and inputs, I can make it self loop. In this case it should be especially easy since both input and output are low-voltage DC at moderate currents.  ???  But will that get me a visit from the "Others"?  :-[

And the "box" wasn't black, was it? It looked more like a galvanized-silvergrey color to me.   :P

TK,

I do not know what videos you did look at? And I do not know if you did read all the posts over at over unity dot com,
but here is what I did see:

Tinman did ASK for help to measure his circuit. He got help from MarkE and Picowatt.
He did measurement according to what they told him.

He did show approx. 9 Watt into the circuit and approx. 18 Watt out of the circuit.

His o-scope measurement did agree with his DVM measurement within a 5% error margin.
He also did filter the input and output with electrolytic capacitors and small ceramic capacitors.
He did show on the o-scope that there was no large noise spikes on the input. (Down in the mW range.)
He did show by using a LUX meter that the output currents and voltages was almost the same from
the circuit as when he did use a power supply for the same light in the bulb, thus proving the output
from the circuit was real.

MarkE confirmed that Tinmans measurement was solid and correct. Then there was talk about trying
to self loop the circuit, and then the shit hit the fan, and everything went shitty.

All in all, Tinman posted 3 measurements videos on YouTube. All three videos was deleted.
I see that Picowatt is a member of this forum now, maybe he can confirm what I'm
posting here to be correct or not?

GL.
   
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G
Yes there was a friendly Visit after the Vids And computer and Phone line were shut down.[since turned back on]
at the time of the visit there was an invitation [mandatory attendance ] to a Gov't building for
an "explanation"
at No time was anything  touched removed or even looked at ,just Talk ,very friendly and passive.
Oh and when TinMan tried to query youtube about the Vid removal they just sent a Copywright infringement excuse.
and would not correspond at all, if you saw the vids there were no Copyrights involved [No Music etc]

during this time I had been in Phone contact with Tinman and the next day My Long Distance service was
removed  with no good reason given By Frontier communication ,they had good news though "you have been paying to much"
and put me on a "new Plan"....
thanks, 
 I never use that method to make long distance calls anyway ,however when they pulled my Phone I could only call in my local area.
also My old throw away IBM laptop was fried the day after ,  went to sleep it worked fine woke up the next day
Boopkis...Tech says the Harddrive is gone "happens all the time"
first time for me.


   
Group: Guest
Stick this in your pouch, TK.

E??
   
Sr. Member
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Posts: 375
Chet,

That is typical criminal groups activity (and dangerous when they are part of govt) and unless you make insurance with spreading out information in open source format before showing anything the research is always at the risk...

Also there is century war still going on between scientists and those who want to keep monopoly&power.. http://www.infowars.com/list-of-dead-scientists/
   

Group: Experimentalist
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Posts: 2982


Buy me a beer
Who has a copy of the 3 vids in question? I have not seen any of them, but I can say I had computer problems also the day this happened, most strange

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

Group: Renaissance Man
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Posts: 2765


Buy me a cigar
Who has a copy of the 3 vids in question? I have not seen any of them, but I can say I had computer problems also the day this happened, most strange

regards

Mike 8)

Dear Mike.

This one might be the most important one IMO.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2912.msg50296#msg50296

Cheers Grum.


---------------------------
Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
Group: Tech Wizard
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Posts: 1199
Hi Groundloop,

I can also confirm  that the happenings and the chain of events you posted below is correct. 

Thanks for collecting them. 

Gyula

TK,

I do not know what videos you did look at? And I do not know if you did read all the posts over at over unity dot com,
but here is what I did see:

Tinman did ASK for help to measure his circuit. He got help from MarkE and Picowatt.
He did measurement according to what they told him.

He did show approx. 9 Watt into the circuit and approx. 18 Watt out of the circuit.

His o-scope measurement did agree with his DVM measurement within a 5% error margin.
He also did filter the input and output with electrolytic capacitors and small ceramic capacitors.
He did show on the o-scope that there was no large noise spikes on the input. (Down in the mW range.)
He did show by using a LUX meter that the output currents and voltages was almost the same from
the circuit as when he did use a power supply for the same light in the bulb, thus proving the output
from the circuit was real.

MarkE confirmed that Tinmans measurement was solid and correct. Then there was talk about trying
to self loop the circuit, and then the shit hit the fan, and everything went shitty.

All in all, Tinman posted 3 measurements videos on YouTube. All three videos was deleted.
I see that Picowatt is a member of this forum now, maybe he can confirm what I'm
posting here to be correct or not?

GL.

   
Group: Guest
TK,

I do not know what videos you did look at? And I do not know if you did read all the posts over at over unity dot com,
but here is what I did see:

Tinman did ASK for help to measure his circuit. He got help from MarkE and Picowatt.
He did measurement according to what they told him.

He did show approx. 9 Watt into the circuit and approx. 18 Watt out of the circuit.

His o-scope measurement did agree with his DVM measurement within a 5% error margin.
He also did filter the input and output with electrolytic capacitors and small ceramic capacitors.
He did show on the o-scope that there was no large noise spikes on the input. (Down in the mW range.)
He did show by using a LUX meter that the output currents and voltages was almost the same from
the circuit as when he did use a power supply for the same light in the bulb, thus proving the output
from the circuit was real.

MarkE confirmed that Tinmans measurement was solid and correct. Then there was talk about trying
to self loop the circuit, and then the shit hit the fan, and everything went shitty.

All in all, Tinman posted 3 measurements videos on YouTube. All three videos was deleted.
I see that Picowatt is a member of this forum now, maybe he can confirm what I'm
posting here to be correct or not?

GL.


Picowatt doesn't need to, I can confirm that all you say is correct, as far as I can tell. I was following along all the while, and last night I went back over the past 30 or so pages of that thread (my goodness that EMJ fellow sure is distracting and irrelevant), and I also remember the three videos very clearly, as if it were only yesterday that I watched them.  And I know just where my "daisy chain" suggestion fits into the timeline, too.

None of that negates what I have said in my post. Errors in measurement and interpretation can still slip through this remote-control vetting process.

For example, as I recall, when TinMan was trying to use the PSU to send DC through the load bulb to obtain the same brightness and power, his PSU was in _current limiting_ mode, as indicated by his narration and also by the red light on the unit itself. He never did wind up with the exact settings as happened during the experimental demonstration itself, according to my notes. Those values were, again, according to my notes, IN 12.44V@0.744A = 9.255W and OUT 9.37V@1.583A = 14.833W. This is pretty darn impressive, and the error of the "control" with PSU in current-limiting mode would only be less than a Watt, so it's still an impressive result.  

So, by the Daisy-Chain method, one should be able to run another identical unit on the output of the first one, with power left over, and then a third off the power output of the second, etc. Daisy-chain several units together and take the combined mechanical power from the motor shafts and use it to turn a separate generator, which would easily provide the power to run the first unit in the chain!  Why isn't TinMan being a hero, risking everything to bring such a simple device to the public? Release the complete plans all over the internet, and thumb noses at the PTB and the MiBs !!!

Or... perhaps the units cannot be daisy-chained at all, and then the conclusion that the measurements are in error is inescapable, no matter how many EEs agree that, to the best of their knowledge the measurements were correctly performed.

If a device puts out plain old DC at higher power than is being input as plain old DC... what conceivable reason could there possibly be that would prevent them from being daisy-chained? I can understand how the circuitry might not permit one device looping back to itself, but what is there to prevent daisy-chaining, except _lack of sufficient real power_ in the first place?


Heck, send me the parts and instructions to build three identical units and I'll do it myself. I ain't afraid of no MIBs.

ETA: The lower voltage of the output can be easily handled by using an efficient DC-DC converter, or even by putting the outputs of two identical units _in series_ .
   
Group: Guest
Stick this in your pouch, TK.

E??

See? It's the Streisand Effect. The extended Internet never forgets. Once something is "out there" in the wild, it's there for good... or bad... and short of instituting massive censorship or shutting the whole damn net down, there is nothing that G-men of any stripe can do about it. By their very actions, they are drawing attention to that which they wish to suppress.

(And I think that the _real_ MiBs are smarter than that.)
   
Sr. Member
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Posts: 375
Stick this in your pouch, TK.

E??

Just checked quickly per Grum's request.

Was Brad running resonant circuit? The caps and DC motor brushes would certainly be able to create the resonance condition where fixed large load can run on reactive power without much consumption from power source...

P.S> For curiosity I calculated power levels. Pin: 9.44955W, Pload: 14.47908W. Just unless question about recycled reactive power is answered I would avoid throwing in OU discussion.
   
Group: Tech Wizard
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Posts: 1199
Hi T-1000,

There is no indication from Brad posts or from his videos that a resonant circuit was used anywhere in his setup.

I think that regardless of whether there was resonant circuit or not, if you have a setup that consumes say 9.4W DC power and delivers say 14.4W DC output power to a load, then why is it a question whether this is a COP > 1 or not?

For me this setup clearly shows excess power output and even with a 80% efficiency off-the-shelf DC-DC converter you could make a looped self-runner. And still a good 2W power would be available for a load. And remember that in your calculations on Pin and Pout, the mechanical power available on the motor shaft is not considered, whatever small or not small its value is.  I mean the inherent COP may be higher than this divison: 14.4/9.4 suggests.

Gyula

Just checked quickly per Grum's request.

Was Brad running resonant circuit? The caps and DC motor brushes would certainly be able to create the resonance condition where fixed large load can run on reactive power without much consumption from power source...

P.S> For curiosity I calculated power levels. Pin: 9.44955W, Pload: 14.47908W. Just unless question about recycled reactive power is answered I would avoid throwing in OU discussion.

   

Group: Experimentalist
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Posts: 2982


Buy me a beer
Dear Mike.

This one might be the most important one IMO.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2912.msg50296#msg50296

Cheers Grum.

Thanks Grum, I did not see that, very interesting

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
Group: Guest
Yes there was a friendly Visit after the Vids And computer and Phone line were shut down.[since turned back on]
at the time of the visit there was an invitation [mandatory attendance ] to a Gov't building for
an "explanation"
at No time was anything  touched removed or even looked at ,just Talk ,very friendly and passive.

Friendly visit?  One that would lead to TinMan calling it quits?  I kind of uh uh doubt it.

Exactly who are these creatures?  Or better, who is their employer?   We need to pay them a little visit.  This is a hobby for most here.  It's not like we are putting any strain whatsoever on the major energy producers.  If we are prohibited from this sort of research, maybe we should all pack our bags and get the hell off this rock.
   
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