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Author Topic: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices.  (Read 158717 times)

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But what about the "inverse" case... which is what I was talking about when I mentioned patents over there.

Say a big powerful corporation or government owns a patent on some secret worldchanging technology. Perhaps the patent rights were assigned, or perhaps the patent was "secretized" because of national security reasons. They definitely do this in the USA and I would certainly expect it to be done in Australia as well.

So now some private individual -- who may or may not actually have "inside" knowledge of said patent and the art it teaches -- starts putting up YouTube videos that come very very close to revealing the secret of the patent. And it's clear enough so that the Watchers believe that the individual definitely knows the secret himself.

What then?

Been there, done that, got the T shirt!!  In my professional career I have been been served secrecy orders on some of my patent applications to do with military equipment.  I have also received dire warnings from the USA (I live in the UK) about another application that they said breached the World War 2 lease-lend agreements that gave the USA all proprietary rights to certain types of military equipment.  This was some 40 years after the war and in spite of the fact that my invention was an improvement over existing designs.

Smudge
   

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Been there, done that, got the T shirt!!  In my professional career I have been been served secrecy orders on some of my patent applications to do with military equipment.  I have also received dire warnings from the USA (I live in the UK) about another application that they said breached the World War 2 lease-lend agreements that gave the USA all proprietary rights to certain types of military equipment.  This was some 40 years after the war and in spite of the fact that my invention was an improvement over existing designs.

Smudge
Confirms what I've been saying all along, sadly.



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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   

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This is why I believe Tinman was silenced.
It is called stochastic mixing.
ie mixing radiant energy with ordinary ac or dc
or mixing static electricity with pulsed dc or ac.


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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
I noticed over at the ou.com forum, that there is talk of radio interference.
It would seem to be a possibility that broad noise at a high enough power output could be a good reason for troubles.
That scope shot certainly looks noisy. It's my opinion that the visitors could have said one thing but meant/implied another and the result would be the same effect that it has evidently had on our Aussie friend.

In light of which, a Faraday cage should be constructed to house the motor and, guess what we have then ?
The spinny motor black box that sits in peoples utility rooms making power !
The expected grail of devices that everyone imagines a free energy machine would be lol, true though !


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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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Glad my workbench is inside a shipping container then :) No AM, FM, 3G or 4g inside that baby
   
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The purpose of the looping post is to show that a fake device can be looped the same as a real device,electronic tests alone can not determine a real device from a fake device,only a physical examination can.Tinman's reaction to poynt99's,"funny business", statement is a bad sign".There are two circuits the first relies on voltage generated by field coil L2,when the voltage reaches a certain point it causes the scr to conduct causing the relay to close the contacts, applying current to the lamp and L1 thru resistor R the current in the field coil causes a magnetic field to form this causes the rotor to turn faster,reducing its current draw,the scr unlatches when the switch is turned off.The second circuit is more cut and dry,you simply apply current to both the field coil L1 and the lamp at the same time thru a switch.There are many ways to do this illusion.

Any electric motor no matter what it is relies on magnetic forces of attract  and repulsion.The universal motor is no different it relies on a magnetic field created in the housing,by two electromagnets(field coils),the housing is a laminated core that is resistant to magnetization.The rotor has 2 electromagnets on opposite sides that repel and attract the magnetic fields from the field electromagnets.This causes a rotation of the rotor,the rotor must overcome friction,caused by the brushes in contact with the commutator(coil rotor switch).In a motor like this when you disconnect the field coils,and apply a current to only the rotor,the rotor will not turn,the electromagnets of the rotor will apply force on the housing but will not turn.In tinmans schematic it shows no power applied to either field coils,one is used as a generator,the other in a shorting unknown circuit,without a magnetic field present at start up it can not turn,no shorting of anything will make it turn.Until you address why a rotor will turn in the absence of any counter magnetic field you guys are simply going in circles.If you were to get a motor to run without the field coils needed,applying current to a field winding will increase the rotors speed and decrease the current drawn by the rotor,a fact not a theory.If a person could get a universal motor to run with no current in the field coil,he could create an illusion where a hidden source of energy is applied to not only,the lamp but the field coil causing the lamp to light and causing a current in the field winding,causing an increase in the magnetic field in the field coil ,causing an increase in the speed of the rotor,causing a decrease in current drawn by the rotor.

Heres a little more investigating of tinmans device,With any investigation, you set your limits,and conditions.1 a universal motor is used,the field windings must be separate.2 One winding is used as a  generator,the other to help create a rotation.3 A special type of shorting of one field winding occurs.You have only one winding free to use to rotate the rotor,what happens if a current is applied to the rotor with both windings disconnected?picture (zero rotation) answers this,the rotors electromagnets create force on the core the result is the rotor becomes very hard to turn by hand,no rotation happens.In order for the special shorting to occur the rotor must rotate,in the videos the rotor instantly rotates when current is applied.Next the core is removed,picture,(magnet-rotor-effect) shows whats needed  for the rotor to rotate.The setup picture,(setup,one magnet),a single magnet, south pole facing rotor is used,picture,(magnet-rotor-turning),a video of this,(one magnet to run motor).I tried placing very powerful magnets on the core to make the motor run no luck,I found that cutting the core in half allowed magnets to be used to rotate the motor.The amount of current fed the field coil controls the current dawn by the motor,picture (setup,field current effects rotor current),video,(current of field coil effects rotor current),keep in mind that the closer the field winding is to the rotor the greater the reaction,in this demo the distance is not too close.I investigated why a solid core can't be used with magnets to create rotation of the rotor.Picture, (set magnetic field ),shows a very powerful magnet used to test polarity and field strength,I'm using a polarity magnetic probe,in picture,(half core magnetic field),the center is south pole,as expected as well as the outer part.Now I joined the core pieces to form a complete core,the magnetic field is south pole thru out the outer core,picture,(magnetic field of complete outer core).I used the probe to test the inside of the complete core,the probe showed no magnetic field or so little that the probe didn't react to it,picture,(magnetic field in side complete core).I used first a  screw driver,which showed that there was a magnetic field in the center of the core,then a magnet probing, using  magnetic repulsion to test the core,it indicated that the center of the core was completely a south pole,this creates conditions  that prevents rotation.I believe that the probe uses a hall device which is effected by this making it seem there's no magnetic field at the center of the core.In building my version for the demo,I found if the split cores get too close to each other the motor stops turning,there has to be a gap between the split cores.Is tinmans device a prank I believe it is,you guys make up your own minds.
   

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I'm sorry I stopped reading after you inferred brad is anything less than honest.
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
With ya on that Jim...those who don't know the guy may leap around all over the place, treating this device like any other that doesn't have full disclosure. Historically, nothing is resolved about what is claimed by an inventor, so there is vindication in the vicious attacks. And, indeed, when claimed as something and it gets debunked, the feeling is of a superiority to the inventors scam tactic. Nothing wrong with that, who wants to be a mug.

Biggest point, in my opinion, is that this one was never claimed to be anything, it just is what it is.
People are choosing to be offended by Brad's stance...choosing to be offended.
The readings have been made, the scope shots given, the circuit changed to accommodate peer requested components.
Right from the offset there was no case of misleading into spending cash on parts toward a dead end.
If you want one, build one, but you have to have the hours in of understanding to get there.
The research has to be done, the bench time put in, the long nights of brain crunching to gain tiny realisations and make methodical changes.

Let me put it this way. If 100 people put in the time, discover, learn how this process works, then that can be far superior to 1 person with 1 device immediately disclosing all. 100 different versions will produce improvements, changes, greater efficiencies, a forwarding. 1 device will be static, halted beside minor skirting around the basic concept. An example may be the SSG, where people know the exact circuit and construction, so that is what they build. It works, so why do anything to it ?





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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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Buy me some coffee
The purpose of the looping post is to show that a fake device can be looped the same as a real device,electronic tests alone can not determine a real device from a fake device,only a physical examination can.Tinman's reaction to poynt99's,"funny business", statement is a bad sign".There are two circuits the first relies on voltage generated by field coil L2,when the voltage reaches a certain point it causes the scr to conduct causing the relay to close the contacts, applying current to the lamp and L1 thru resistor R the current in the field coil causes a magnetic field to form this causes the rotor to turn faster,reducing its current draw,the scr unlatches when the switch is turned off.The second circuit is more cut and dry,you simply apply current to both the field coil L1 and the lamp at the same time thru a switch.There are many ways to do this illusion.

Any electric motor no matter what it is relies on magnetic forces of attract  and repulsion.The universal motor is no different it relies on a magnetic field created in the housing,by two electromagnets(field coils),the housing is a laminated core that is resistant to magnetization.The rotor has 2 electromagnets on opposite sides that repel and attract the magnetic fields from the field electromagnets.This causes a rotation of the rotor,the rotor must overcome friction,caused by the brushes in contact with the commutator(coil rotor switch).In a motor like this when you disconnect the field coils,and apply a current to only the rotor,the rotor will not turn,the electromagnets of the rotor will apply force on the housing but will not turn.In tinmans schematic it shows no power applied to either field coils,one is used as a generator,the other in a shorting unknown circuit,without a magnetic field present at start up it can not turn,no shorting of anything will make it turn.Until you address why a rotor will turn in the absence of any counter magnetic field you guys are simply going in circles.If you were to get a motor to run without the field coils needed,applying current to a field winding will increase the rotors speed and decrease the current drawn by the rotor,a fact not a theory.If a person could get a universal motor to run with no current in the field coil,he could create an illusion where a hidden source of energy is applied to not only,the lamp but the field coil causing the lamp to light and causing a current in the field winding,causing an increase in the magnetic field in the field coil ,causing an increase in the speed of the rotor,causing a decrease in current drawn by the rotor.

Heres a little more investigating of tinmans device,With any investigation, you set your limits,and conditions.1 a universal motor is used,the field windings must be separate.2 One winding is used as a  generator,the other to help create a rotation.3 A special type of shorting of one field winding occurs.You have only one winding free to use to rotate the rotor,what happens if a current is applied to the rotor with both windings disconnected?picture (zero rotation) answers this,the rotors electromagnets create force on the core the result is the rotor becomes very hard to turn by hand,no rotation happens.In order for the special shorting to occur the rotor must rotate,in the videos the rotor instantly rotates when current is applied.Next the core is removed,picture,(magnet-rotor-effect) shows whats needed  for the rotor to rotate.The setup picture,(setup,one magnet),a single magnet, south pole facing rotor is used,picture,(magnet-rotor-turning),a video of this,(one magnet to run motor).I tried placing very powerful magnets on the core to make the motor run no luck,I found that cutting the core in half allowed magnets to be used to rotate the motor.The amount of current fed the field coil controls the current dawn by the motor,picture (setup,field current effects rotor current),video,(current of field coil effects rotor current),keep in mind that the closer the field winding is to the rotor the greater the reaction,in this demo the distance is not too close.I investigated why a solid core can't be used with magnets to create rotation of the rotor.Picture, (set magnetic field ),shows a very powerful magnet used to test polarity and field strength,I'm using a polarity magnetic probe,in picture,(half core magnetic field),the center is south pole,as expected as well as the outer part.Now I joined the core pieces to form a complete core,the magnetic field is south pole thru out the outer core,picture,(magnetic field of complete outer core).I used the probe to test the inside of the complete core,the probe showed no magnetic field or so little that the probe didn't react to it,picture,(magnetic field in side complete core).I used first a  screw driver,which showed that there was a magnetic field in the center of the core,then a magnet probing, using  magnetic repulsion to test the core,it indicated that the center of the core was completely a south pole,this creates conditions  that prevents rotation.I believe that the probe uses a hall device which is effected by this making it seem there's no magnetic field at the center of the core.In building my version for the demo,I found if the split cores get too close to each other the motor stops turning,there has to be a gap between the split cores.Is tinmans device a prank I believe it is,you guys make up your own minds.

Anything can be faked,but we will see how you go with my next video i post--lets see you fake that.


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Fight or flight becomes fight - good on ya Brad  O0


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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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Magnets in the stator to facilitate induction in the stator sounds difficult.

I don't recall reading anything about magnets being part of the device, however, I will not rule it out if for no other reason, the rotary transformer was inspired by his permanent magnet based L.A.G.  One could presume that he would eventually move towards integrating permanent magnets into the rotary transformer since the two technologies are basically different embodies of the same principles and concepts.  However being as clever as he is, if I were in his position I wouldn't, but he isn't me nor I him.

We shouldn't forget that the rotor can be exited individually, the rotor will spin, no torque in the true sense of the term will be produced as there is no orthogonal field being generated in the field windings, neither here nor there, as this isn't specifically about motoring effects and torque.  This frees up the field windings for whatever one desires to try out.  We were informed on several occasions, not including the present disclosure, that the field windings were rewound.  The rewinding usually included, but were not limited to adding a second winding which functioned as a trigger winding enabling the use of an inductively triggered circuit.  If this were practiced, (DC excited to rotor, in conjunction with inductively triggered circuit driving stator windings) no permanent magnets would be required in the stator as is being suggested.

Are we really going to try and piece this mystery together?  By the time we are done we will have a machine that is identical in appearance to his, but it will be radically different in how it operates.  

The question to ask is simple.....what were you shown?  The answer is even simpler......nothing he hadn't shown you more times than many care to recall......


Regards

Hi ER

Now back home from my 10 days away in France and easier to access the net :)

This is just thinking allowed and what I would try and might try, after several years of what others have done or not done ^-^

Cut the stator core in half with one coil on each half, rejoin with a neo mag between each join. Now you need to have one stator coil used as a generator coil and the other as a field interrupter of the neo's of now the PM ring core.

By creating a circuit to switch (short) the one coil in a frequency harmony of the rotor ( pulse of the "generating coil" gating a mosfet). Two things will happen I think, when the coil shorts a high current will be produced ( the mosfet used will have to cope with this), the mag field will be pushed through the generating coil causing a current to flow which will be added to the generated voltage produced by the rotor. This is a bit like a buck booster in a loose way, except here we generate the voltage (10+-V) and add the high current made by switching the mag flux with compression through the coil. The second thing to happen is due to all this the rotor input power drops due to the mag flux movement reducing drag on the rotor.

All seems a most interesting idea, no "laws" broken as it is using the power of the neos being pushed and springing back for little input to do it O0

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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So, TinMan, you've decided to post more videos after all?
(Just for the record, I do NOT think that you are faking anything you've shown. However I acknowledge cheappower's analysis and I thought myself that putting a battery inside the switchbox might be one possible way to fake it.)

I've just discovered that one of my little shunt motors WILL rotate quite fast and with good torque with only the armature brushes connected to the power supply... no connection to the field coils at all. It needs a little manual spin to get started, then it accelerates rapidly. The other one won't quite do it but seems to try, maybe it still has too much friction in its bearings.
 
These motors have no magnets in them and there appears to be no remanent magnetism in the core assembly. Both field coils are normally connected together in series inside the case. But as part of my efforts I just took one apart and rewired it so that the coils are now separate. I also lubed the little ball bearings so that the motor turns more freely. These things are at least 50 years old and the grease in the bearings is like wax. This rewired one is the one that will run with only the armature brushes connected to the power supply and the field coils not connected to anything.

What's even weirder is that the polarity of the power supply doesn't matter... it turns the same direction regardless of the polarity of the PS connection to the armature brushes.  I have to admit that I don't understand what's going on in these motors when they are spinning without any field coil connections. The armature poles aren't straight, they are kind of a spiral.

   
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.....
What's even weirder is that the polarity of the power supply doesn't matter... it turns the same direction regardless of the polarity of the PS connection to the armature brushes.  I have to admit that I don't understand what's going on in these motors when they are spinning without any field coil connections. The armature poles aren't straight, they are kind of a spiral.



Hi TinselKoala,

I think the answer is that the rotor has those slanted or wavy segments which are not parallel with the rotor shaft as usual:  this makes for the rotor to operate easily as a pulsed attraction motor. After a small manual spin is given, there will always be parts of the rotor segments starting to attract to a stator core part towards which it is approaching. And by the time a dead center situation would cause drag due to the total facing in attraction, the brushes just change to another rotor coil hence another attraction is able to start and so on.
This explains the same rotational direction too because attraction of an electromagnet to a soft iron does not care polarity.
By the way other members at the ou forum already managed to maintain rotation of the rotor by directly feeding DC into the brushes of universal AC motors, though there was no info whether the rotor segments were wavy like yours or not.
I think that rotors with straight segment pieces instead of the wavy ones can also run on DC fed to the brushes with field coils floating.
Thanks for showing the 'inside world' of your motor.

Gyula
   
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OK, I think I get it, maybe. The necessary bias or "advance" is built into the armature windings by where the windings are connected to the commutator segments. This makes the motor want to turn in one direction, by attraction to the field pole pieces even when there is no power to the field coils.

But then, why does the motor reverse direction when polarity is changed, when the field coils are in use?

Ah, I've been up too long and there are too many variables. Need to stop for a while and get some sleep, maybe I'll understand it all better when I wake up.
   
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...
But then, why does the motor reverse direction when polarity is changed, when the field coils are in use?
...

Well in that case the field coils are required to insure  say a N-S pole on the facing field pole pieces and when the input polarity is flipped the field pole pieces become an S-N pole, right?
   
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Yes, that's right. It's just my impression that the motor doesn't seem to be biased to run in one preferred direction when connected "properly" using the field coils as you state. When changing the supply polarity in that case, it seems to run equally well in the other direction. Maybe it's just my impression, I haven't made any of the appropriate measurements yet.
   

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I posted this on ou.com for a bit of light hearted fun. But the message is LOUD.


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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Anything can be faked,but we will see how you go with my next video i post--lets see you fake that.

Looking forward to it!
   
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I posted this on ou.com for a bit of light hearted fun. But the message is LOUD.

Intermodulation is not required.It is important to understand the fundamental principle which is damn simple.It started around 1840 when Edison found etheric force.
   
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Intermodulation is not required.It is important to understand the fundamental principle which is damn simple.It started around 1840 when Edison found etheric force.

The "proper" blending of harmonics, overtones, or any combination of the two independent or collective to one another is missing from everything we do.  In our machines we cannot get away from the fact that the systems as a rule always produce distorted wave forms.  We try to engineer these distortions out, I liken this to how in our creative genius we have decided that Nature made a mistake in how it routes rivers and streams, in our brilliance we straighten such water ways, and wonder why they flash flood.  These machines we construct are screaming at us that we should invest more of our attention on the fact that we are generating harmonics and overtones.  That we should try to comprehend what these two number sequences mean, root out their significance, discover what they represent within our technology.  

The term "spike" is misleading, (you didn't use this term, however, I feel its related to the subject) we have yet to generate such in the true sense, we don't generate impulses, we produce high frequency damped oscillations, these oscillations "can" take on the "appearance" of an impulse.  This is an important thing to note as well, because those damped waves can be used to modulate the carrier wave, here the carrier is symbolically represented by the sinusoidal wave form we see when we spin the shaft.

Regarding the damped oscillation, when we recognize what is taking place, in that instant we comprehend that we are not limited solely to recovering via the mechanism of self induction, we understand that we can collect again and again, when circuit relations allow, if for no other reason, the collapsing field was not captured!

Regards
« Last Edit: 2015-07-18, 15:50:14 by Erfinder »
   
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Hi ER

Now back home from my 10 days away in France and easier to access the net :)

This is just thinking allowed and what I would try and might try, after several years of what others have done or not done ^-^

Cut the stator core in half with one coil on each half, rejoin with a neo mag between each join. Now you need to have one stator coil used as a generator coil and the other as a field interrupter of the neo's of now the PM ring core.

By creating a circuit to switch (short) the one coil in a frequency harmony of the rotor ( pulse of the "generating coil" gating a mosfet). Two things will happen I think, when the coil shorts a high current will be produced ( the mosfet used will have to cope with this), the mag field will be pushed through the generating coil causing a current to flow which will be added to the generated voltage produced by the rotor. This is a bit like a buck booster in a loose way, except here we generate the voltage (10+-V) and add the high current made by switching the mag flux with compression through the coil. The second thing to happen is due to all this the rotor input power drops due to the mag flux movement reducing drag on the rotor.

All seems a most interesting idea, no "laws" broken as it is using the power of the neos being pushed and springing back for little input to do it O0

Regards

Mike 8)

Hello Mike,

I have built several versions of the device you describe.  One was modeled after a device patented by John Bedin1, one modeled after Flynn, one modeled after a patent granted to James German, and yet another modeled after Raymond Kromrey.  My non scientific approach to the bench work led me to experience many interesting phenomena, all of which eventually led to a few realizations concerning the different forms of generator and transformer action operating in pulsed DC apparatus.  I do not limit my use of the term "pulsed" to semiconductor and mechanical based switching, a careful and open minded review of the aforementioned will reveal that they all were reintroducing in their own way a forgotten switching methodology.  Variable reluctance style generators open the door to switching concepts which have no immediate relation to switching as we presently practice and or understand switching.

I like your thinking regarding shorting the coil in at a frequency which is in harmony with the rotor, one thing I would like to suggest is that you not forget that the wave you are switching is not a pure sine wave, it will contain harmonics, overtones, or a combination of the two.  There isn't much you can do about this owing to our not being able to afford the costs of perfect machining of rotors for magnet placement, hell we cant get any of the tolerances perfect which would yield a "perfect" sine wave, in many cases, not even resonance can aid us.  One way around this limitation is an understanding geometry, geometry as it applies to harmonics and overtones.  Thanks to Fourier we know that any wave shape can be produced by combining sines of proper amplitude and frequency, this includes the sine.  

Also important to consider is "when" to switch, and why to switch there.  Most say short the coil at the peak of the sine wave but don't communicate why?  

At any rate, I don't follow the scientific method, and this is frowned at, I am not interested in calculating more out than in.  Its clear in my mind anyway that mainstream has acknowledges that perpetual motion is fact, they even make a bold case (if you read into it like I did) for beyond unity, we need only know where look, and do so with an open mind, no bias, and no preconceived notions.

I really enjoy whats "implied" in the "Electric Force Example"

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/elefor.html

If we keep an open mind, its all related.

Regards
   

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Well I can't get my universal motor to spin at all with stator coils disconnected. Mind you it wasnt spinning that quickly on 12vdc to begin with. Its out of a blender that I accidenally broke.  >:-) . My wife has a thermomix now anyway so it wont be missed. It has a spiral rotor like TKs. Might have to look for something else to break
   

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A little something I have had on my computer and just found it ;)

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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For Brad

A very efficient boost converter with adjustable output voltage and high amp

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Here is some of the rest

http://www.overunity-theory.de/ecklin/ecklin1.htm

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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