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Author Topic: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices.  (Read 197005 times)

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I really enjoy whats "implied" in the "Electric Force Example"

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/elefor.html

That example points out the enormous quantities of positive and negative electric charge in so called neutral matter.  We all assume that because the matter is neutral it does not produce an external electric field (true) and therefore it can not radiate the quanta that produce electric fields (untrue).  A simple gedanken experiment will tell you that the quanta are radiated but that everywhere outside of the matter the "positive" quanta (those radiated from positive charge which on their own would produce a repulsion on a positive test charge) are negated by the "negative" quanta (those radiated from negative charge which on their own would produce an attraction on a positive test charge).  The radial force impulses on our test charge occur in equal numbers as outward and inward forces, the net effect is zero.  But the quanta are still there.  Something to ponder on.

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It's turtles all the way down
Regarding Tinmans older video of his modified motor vs a cheap fan induction motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szpJ97M58G4

 This is not a very fair comparison by Tinman. Those AC induction fan motors are notoriously inefficient, as they are made as cheaply as possible and tend to run very hot, wasting a lot of power, but since they are mounted behind a fan, no problem, the consumer pays the bill.

Universal Motors, such as the modified washing machine motor he is testing against are far more efficient than the cheap induction fan motors. The washing machine motor is a far more rugged unit designed for high torque continuous duty without a fan to cool it.

A fair test would be a modified washing machine motor against an identical unmodified washing machine motor, and with a variety of loads on each because you really need a torque, speed, and efficiency curve for each device to get the whole picture.

It is fairly easy to rig a test to look good at one particular point on the curve, vs one that is handicapped by operating at a different point on the curve.

I won't post this on the new thread so as not to derail the flow or get into a squabble with Brad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qly8nB98BKE

Regards, ION


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Hey Ion

I used to be what some might call a hardcore "measurist" at one time however at some point in my studies of philosophy and psychology I came to understand I was spending endless hours measuring things but I was making no real progress.  At which point I decided to change my habits and use relative measures, for instance I don't need to know the exact power dissipated by a motor down to the last mW I only need to know how much I have improved the efficiency in a relative sense. Thus I am not preoccupied with exact measures but moreso how much I have improved the measures in one instance versus another in a general sense. I found I was able to make very big steps in understanding and technology rather than many small steps which resulted in very little or no progress.

It's like spending endless hours measuring every aspect of a model T as it relates to another model T when someone pulls up in a new Ferrari. At which point it may be understood that while the results may be very accurate the whole premise may in fact be flawed rendering the results pointless. Which is why comparing apples and oranges may not be a bad thing because if you spend your whole life only comparing apples then you may never know that the right solution that works is a grapefruit. "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."-- Einstein.

This theme relates to some of my new work, you see everyone always tries to make a meaningful comparison using the process of induction which is actually self-induction as the working premise. Induction always relates to one magnetic field acting on another and this always invokes Lenz Law which causes one field to oppose the change in the other. Induction is our apple and very few can grasp the possibility of an alter-ego to induction we might call anti-induction. What would anti-induction look like?, what would it do and how would it work?. Now if a magnetic field is an apple and we always use apples to act on other apples then what is an anti-apple?... it may be or invoke no apples. If apples induce other apples and these like apples always oppose the change of one another then the most sensible solution would seem to be to induce an orange which constitutes a complete lack of apples. The thing to remember here is that a North polarity magnetic field is not the true opposite of a South polarity magnetic field because they are both magnetic fields. How can they be truely opposite when they are both the same thing fundamentally?.

The fact remains that doing and thinking the same things over and over which does not work does not make it any more workable... it means were probably wasting our time and should try something new. I like tinman's style which is in line with another Eistein quote -- "I never let my schooling get in the way of my education."

AC



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Everyman decries immorality
http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg456977/#msg456977
Quote
OK here is a link to the thread I made at EF about using the Universal motor from a vacuum cleaner by powering the rotor and doing stuff with the field coils. I mentioned about using some permanent magnets as well.

The thread is from - May - 2012. http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11417-modifying-motors-generators.html

So I'm kinda wondering did Tinman come up with the idea himself ? Did he take my idea and run further with it without giving credit for where the idea came from.  Did he come up with the idea before me, or did he come up with the idea without ever seeing my thread or idea's. I don't know and don't care. But maybe others will.

It's about as much a loss to me as some guy selling plans to an exciter is a loss to the slayer guy or whomever it was Tinman was complaining about. Nil loss.

Erfinder, the waveform at the end of this video is actually a clip showing the wave form from a different device and the end of the clip was not trimmed, that shouldn't even be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAiYzYGOKIs

Anyway yippee, we have another free energy Guru - Tinman. He fits the bill just like J.B. and P.L. Secrets secrets secrets.

Funny thing is he is telling people he has no intention to reveal the necessary details, and still people are hanging on his words.

Congrats Guru Tinman.

Hopefully Tinman is not stringing people along and some people will show replications showing excess energy, or Tinman will show a device that can be replicated which shows excess energy or Tinman will make available for purchase a device or plans to build a device that will show excess energy if built to spec.

In three years time or so we should know one way or another. Is three years enough ? Or does it require 30 years ? I might be gone and buried by then.  :)

The MIB suppression story has created a hero in the making, and the excuse in advance to never produce the goods. Time is short Tinman, the world is in dire need of a de-centralised energy solution that is under the control of Everyman..so be a hero Brad even if you may fall in the process.. present in full what is proffered.

ETA: removed profanity.
« Last Edit: 2015-07-23, 22:29:11 by poynt99 »


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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Whats the chances that someone will else will be able to show what Tinman showed but will use the same excuse not to actually show enough information to be able to replicate and analyze the setup.

AC, When TInman is comparing to a fan motor it is ok if the object is to produce a more efficient fan motor than he is comparing to. But Tinman is hinting at more out than in, which is drawing in "hopefuls" even though they know he has no intention of even explaining a theory of operation not to mention a real circuit drawing. And also claiming government suppression.

What Tinman is doing is so very similar to what J.B. and P.L. as well as UFOPolitics and all the other F.O.S. people are doing.

As I see it, good luck to them. Time will tell. Not that it needs to, they aren't harming anyone. I just don't see that another endless thread is needed to be started with secrecy right from the beginning, and on an open source web site.

But I guess there will be more soon, all that is needed is a demo with a black box showing apparently more out than in and a claim of suppression, instant Guru. hahaha Of course we need as much of that happening as possible, so I would hope that several more people at least do a similar thing. We need more secrets and more gurus to keep the eternally hopeful all in one thread.  :) He hasn't drawn them all in there are more for others.

..

..
   

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Everyman decries immorality
http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg456977/#msg456977
The MIB suppression story has created a hero in the making, and the excuse in advance to never produce the goods. Time is short Tinman, the world is in dire need of a de-centralised energy solution that is under the control of Everyman..so be a hero Brad even if you may fall in the process.. present in full what is proffered.

ETA: removed profanity.

The removed profanity was valid in my opinion.


---------------------------
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Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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@Farmhand
Quote
AC, When TInman is comparing to a fan motor it is ok if the object is to produce a more efficient fan motor than he is comparing to. But Tinman is hinting at more out than in, which is drawing in "hopefuls" even though they know he has no intention of even explaining a theory of operation not to mention a real circuit drawing. And also claiming government suppression.

What Tinman is doing is so very similar to what J.B. and P.L. as well as UFOPolitics and all the other F.O.S. people are doing.

As I see it, good luck to them. Time will tell. Not that it needs to, they aren't harming anyone. I just don't see that another endless thread is needed to be started with secrecy right from the beginning, and on an open source web site.

I would agree and it would seem to be a pattern of behavior we have all seen before in the past. The problem is an old story regarding the boy who cried wolf and it is hard to determine whether the wolf was there or not. Most likely it is not however as the story goes you never know.

More often that not I think it is not malicious in it's intent but more so wishful thinking of things that never were. Such is Life


AC


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Lasersaber seems to be making great progress !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43lxNJjIKD8

He mentions rewinding his AC coils...and nothing about magnet insertion, brush angles, filings or much else.
A very very interesting video, when showing current draw and running a fan.
His current draw goes down when connecting a mains light..as it rotary transforms 12V to >120V.
12V 2.2A in with no load, 160V at 0.46A out when running at 1.2A reduced draw.
14.4W in, 73.6W out  :D

Please do triple check lol, presumably the voltage comes right down with that dead short loading.


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Hi all,

The fundamental principle behind all your stuff is still same and does not matter how hard you complicate your setups - http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2678.msg45498#msg45498 ..
It is all about manipulation of magnetic field interaction and timing where you have controls on when and what happen. :)

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Quote
He mentions rewinding his AC coils...and nothing about magnet insertion, brush angles, filings or much else.
A very very interesting video, when showing current draw and running a fan.
His current draw goes down when connecting a mains light..as it rotary transforms 12V to >120V.
12V 2.2A in with no load, 160V at 0.46A out when running at 1.2A reduced draw.
14.4W in, 73.6W out

I am just beginning to experiment with this.  I had very little time to test it yesterday.  The test at a 160V .4 amps short circuit does not give wattage out!  It is just a quick test with a single multimeter.  In the stock configuration before the new windings the same test was outputting 30V at 50mA short circuit.  Before the new coils I was almost ready to shelf it.  Now I do think there may be an effect here worth pursuing even if only as an inverter type device.

At this point my best guess is that the system is not even 60 percent efficient.  It is still fun to try to unlock more potential out of it.
   
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To Farmhand
I watched your video,"Generating Field DC Motor".
Same vacuum motor I am not familiar with motors used in Australia,
on the motor in the video is the core surrounded by permanent magnets,added by the manufacturer
of the motor,Or is there no permanent magnets.It seems everybody that gets the motor working is from Australia
or bought a motor on ebay used in your area of the world.
thanks
   

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I am just beginning to experiment with this.  I had very little time to test it yesterday.  The test at a 160V .4 amps short circuit does not give wattage out!  It is just a quick test with a single multimeter.  In the stock configuration before the new windings the same test was outputting 30V at 50mA short circuit.  Before the new coils I was almost ready to shelf it.  Now I do think there may be an effect here worth pursuing even if only as an inverter type device.

At this point my best guess is that the system is not even 60 percent efficient.  It is still fun to try to unlock more potential out of it.

Great demo LS.
This video would be a great example for others to watch,and explain the below.
I am getting much criticism over my device,but no one has yet to explain where the Lorentz force has nowhere is the counter electromotive force from the generating coil?.

So the rotor has a magnetic field as it approaches the stator coil core(if it did not,then the motor wouldn't spin). In every other generator the stator coil(generating coil) will produce that apposing magnetic field,and bog the prime mover down,but in the RT set up,the motor speeds up when a load is applied to the generating coil.The magnetic field produced by the generating coil is the opposite field to that of the rotor,and so the motor gains torque and RPM. Another effect to this outcome is that eddy currents are !almost! completely eliminated from the core.

Im guessing you have wound many turns of finer wire where the original coil use to be in order to gain the voltage and current needed to run that mains bulb.
Nice work LS> O0

When people understand why this is,then the rest will start to fall in place.


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Thanks LS...I was overjoyed to see such progress and that you have taken an interest in exploring the effects.
It bolsters the research, from someone else highly respected and that's never a bad thing, as Brad has been delivered far too much negativity in some places.
Sorry if I seemed 'off' anywhere, that video produced a broad smile :)

TinMan - A new understanding, for myself is that a magnetic field need not be shut off when it's done its work, but be introduced instead. A coil not charging for most of its cycle, then being blipped with a very high discharge.
So, only 1% of the cycle is used for charging the coil, not 99%...if a natural field was in place, then suddenly swapped, the inrush would produce more into the coil than the slower natural motor forces. It becomes about nullifying for most of the time, not collecting for most of the time. Switching things 180 to at least what I thought had to happen.
In Luc's video, the AC coil is energized with 3V, an effect dependant on that value being 3V, higher and lower don't work. Where upon, the keeper drops from the electromagnet. 3V is easy to generate in a 12V system and he only used a small amount of current. The magnet is always attracted until that 3V blip from his capacitor.
So, the permanent magnet can impart a condition where it is opposite in magnetism to the natural motor effects, until a point where for 1% of the time, it is negated.
If we replace his assembly with the laminations of a motor, the magnet is always attracted to the laminations, so its other side magnetism can work on the motor. Remove the attraction to the laminations with 3V and its forces are negated for a split second. With only needing 3V and low current to make that happen, we're already ahead by 9V with a 12V system and are drawing no more current than a coil on the opposite side would collect in the cycle.
As a newbie to these motors, it seems the Lorentz Force can be negated by using sharp reversals of an otherwise natural condition. The AC coils are air core, after all.  


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Nice demo, LS.

Can you measure the internal resistance of your multimeter on the amp setting you used? Knowing this resistance will allow us to estimate the power of the 0.463 amps of short-circuit current.

For example, one of my "el cheepo" DMMs (plus its probe leads) has a resistance of 1.8 Ohms when used as an ammeter in the 10 ADC range. If I measured a short circuit current of 0.463 amps with this meter, I'd be seeing a power of I2R or (0.4632) x 1.8 = about 386 mW.  Your meter is probably different, it would be nice to know the actual value.

And the input, IIRC, was something like  12V at 1.2 amps or so, when the meter was connected as a short circuit, right? So the motor was dissipating something a bit over 14 Watts...?

ETA: I think it's also important to consider the mechanical power available from the motor. Normally, if a brushed-armature motor is running without a load on it at a stable RPM, there is _no_ extra mechanical power available, all the power is used up to keep the motor running at that RPM against bearing friction, windage, brush contact friction, electromagnetic effects etc.   ... any mechanical load you put on the shaft will _normally_ slow it down and increase the current draw. Do these motors act this way when a mechanical load is put on the shaft?
   
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Here's something interesting. You know I'm using those small DC shunt motors. One of them I have rewired so that each field coil has its own wires, rather than being wired in series inside the motor as they were originally. But that's irrelevant for what I've found today, since I have the coils re-connected in series just as they were originally. Now... as we know, when running with power only to the armature,  the armature turns the same way and at about the same RPM and current draw, regardless of the polarity of the supply to the armature. But get this: I've tried shorting the field coils through a fast highcurrent diode. Here are the results:

Polarity to armature: +12V to "white" wire, - to "red" wire, rotation CCW:
Shorting stator coils through diode: motor slows down heavily and armature current goes UP
Shorting stator coils directly without diode: pretty much no effect.

BUT
Polarity to armature: +12V to "red" wire, - to "white" wire, rotation CCW:
Shorting stator coils through diode: motor SPEEDS UP and armature current goes DOWN
Shorting stator coils directly without diode: pretty much no effect.

There are no magnets in these motors, and there is no connection between armature brushes and the stator coils, the coils are well-insulated from the frame and everything else. The brushes too are in Bakelite holders and don't make electrical contact with anything except the armature commutator (and the supply wires of course).

The speeding up with current dropping (from about 600 mA to about 410 mA, a substantial drop) really surprised me. But even more surprising was the asymmetry of the effect, considering that the armature turns the same way regardless.

   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
TK - replicating JimBoot's schematic is a good idea. You may well see your output go up considerably.
Over here, that's what happened. Very dimly lit 3V bulb turned into a nicely lit bulb.
It's similar to your experiment, when analyzed :)
Your write up helps to prove out the effects noted by others.


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replicating JimBoot's schematic is a good idea.
Said no one ever....
Well until today! I'm attempting to calculate a cap value as suggested by arunas, as the frequency can wander a bit is it best to look for a mean, median or peak in this type of circuit?
Btw i have absolutely no issue with brads approach on this. I'd like to thank him for sharing as much as he has.
   
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LOL Gromit  O0

Yep indeed, good HV caps are being desoldered over here ready for testing.
And yep indeed, learn and try out things, rather than replicate a full schematic and process where noone learns anything. If the device doesn't work, the knowledge gained gives a better route of being able to fix the problems !


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Agreed Wallace Agreed.  O0
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Here's something interesting. You know I'm using those small DC shunt motors. One of them I have rewired so that each field coil has its own wires, rather than being wired in series inside the motor as they were originally. But that's irrelevant for what I've found today, since I have the coils re-connected in series just as they were originally. Now... as we know, when running with power only to the armature,  the armature turns the same way and at about the same RPM and current draw, regardless of the polarity of the supply to the armature. But get this: I've tried shorting the field coils through a fast highcurrent diode. Here are the results:

Polarity to armature: +12V to "white" wire, - to "red" wire, rotation CCW:
Shorting stator coils through diode: motor slows down heavily and armature current goes UP
Shorting stator coils directly without diode: pretty much no effect.

BUT
Polarity to armature: +12V to "red" wire, - to "white" wire, rotation CCW:
Shorting stator coils through diode: motor SPEEDS UP and armature current goes DOWN
Shorting stator coils directly without diode: pretty much no effect.

There are no magnets in these motors, and there is no connection between armature brushes and the stator coils, the coils are well-insulated from the frame and everything else. The brushes too are in Bakelite holders and don't make electrical contact with anything except the armature commutator (and the supply wires of course).

The speeding up with current dropping (from about 600 mA to about 410 mA, a substantial drop) really surprised me. But even more surprising was the asymmetry of the effect, considering that the armature turns the same way regardless.



I have also run these tests. I think what is happening is that with the diode across the field coils you get the speedup or slowdown based on the fact that these motors generally run slower but with more torque available when the diode is aiding the field strength by self excitation.

When the diode is such that the self excitation causes a slight reduction of the induced field, the motor speeds up.


There is very little energy to rectify, due to the brief dropout and collapse of the induced field from the rotor. This is  due to brush mscontact,  a brief interruption of applied current to the rotor. This energy, is usually seen on the scope as fast short duration pulses. When rectified these current pulses either slightly add to or subtracts from the larger flux induced by the rotor into the pole pieces and stator structural return path.

I have owned and maintained a G.E Elek Trak electric tractor for over 35 years and have made some observations about these DC machines. It uses a series of throttle switched small resistors to modulate field current in combination with very large resistors that are switched in to modulate armature current.

The stronger the field current generally the slower the motor will run, but with great torque available.

Reduce the field strength down to zero applied current and the motor will run very fast but not have nearly the torque.

I know this is counter intuitive but that's the way it seems to work on my bench.

You can try this test yourself but it will require two power supplies, one for rotor and one for field coils.

Regards, ION

See my research notes for DC Machines.
« Last Edit: 2015-07-25, 02:31:16 by ION »


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Here's something interesting. You know I'm using those small DC shunt motors. One of them I have rewired so that each field coil has its own wires, rather than being wired in series inside the motor as they were originally. But that's irrelevant for what I've found today, since I have the coils re-connected in series just as they were originally. Now... as we know, when running with power only to the armature,  the armature turns the same way and at about the same RPM and current draw, regardless of the polarity of the supply to the armature. But get this: I've tried shorting the field coils through a fast highcurrent diode. Here are the results:

Polarity to armature: +12V to "white" wire, - to "red" wire, rotation CCW:
Shorting stator coils through diode: motor slows down heavily and armature current goes UP
Shorting stator coils directly without diode: pretty much no effect.

BUT
Polarity to armature: +12V to "red" wire, - to "white" wire, rotation CCW:
Shorting stator coils through diode: motor SPEEDS UP and armature current goes DOWN
Shorting stator coils directly without diode: pretty much no effect.

There are no magnets in these motors, and there is no connection between armature brushes and the stator coils, the coils are well-insulated from the frame and everything else. The brushes too are in Bakelite holders and don't make electrical contact with anything except the armature commutator (and the supply wires of course).

The speeding up with current dropping (from about 600 mA to about 410 mA, a substantial drop) really surprised me. But even more surprising was the asymmetry of the effect, considering that the armature turns the same way regardless.



This is what i call the escalator effect.
Your diode orientation represents the escalators direction.
One way,you have the escalator doing work against the people on it,in that the escalator is raising people up.
The other way,you have people doing work against the escalator,where the escalator is lowering the height of the people on it.
So is the motor on the escalator going in the down direction doing work?,or are the people on that escalator doing work against the motor,and the motor is now a regenerative brake?.

I see ION has a theory on this effect.
Quote: When the diode is such that the self excitation causes a slight reduction of the induced field, the motor speeds up.

This is not what is happening.If the rotor is producing a magnetic field,and we have a diode say in the forward direction on the stator coil,then the apposing field will be produced at the stator coil,and want to push against that approaching magnetic field of the rotor. If we have the diode in the reverse direction,then when the rotor field is leaving the stator coil,the stator coil will produce a field that is opposite that of the rotors field,and want to pull the rotor back toward it-normal lorentz force-CEMF that we see in all generators.

So the only way that the rotor can speed up,and reduce the input current to that rotor,is to have the stator coil/core combo produce a field that is opposite to that of a normal generator,so as it works with the field produced by the rotor.
Now all you have to do is work out how this happens-and it really is quite neat.


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It's turtles all the way down
From Tinman
Quote
I see ION has a theory on this effect.
Quote: When the diode is such that the self excitation causes a slight reduction of the induced field, the motor speeds up.

This is not what is happening

Not a theory, just my observations and thoughts about what might be happening, more like a hypothesis, which I admit may be wrong.

Your escalator analogy is interesting  and the rest.

Thanks for your writeup and your take on what is happening, I will give it due consideration and study.

Best of luck with your situation

Regards, ION

« Last Edit: 2015-07-25, 03:21:09 by ION »


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btw here is my current setup and test vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymKWbcOeSSg

obviously ignore the henry values the lamp is rated at 12v 100ma
   

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with a universal motor rotor in this setup where is the field produced in relation to the brushes? I don't want to pull apart my motor to test :)
   
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