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Author Topic: Generating System  (Read 23890 times)
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Hi Brad,

One problem is that the load (in this case a motor) is connected across the positive input and positive output of a step up converter so the load current is driven through the internal circuit of the converter between its positives and this may influence the normal dissipation for the components involved, an unusual and not recommended operation for boost converters.

Another problem is that if the load is a pulse motor,  then it cannot provide much charge current back to the battery unless the pulse motor is modified to provide the flyback or any induced voltage to appear between galvanically independent positive and negative voltage outputs hooked up back to the battery. Such is not shown if it had been meant.

I came across with such kind of setup your simplified drawing shows in a thread here:
https://overunity.com/17184/a-solid-state-dc-to-dc-converter/msg502041/topicseen/#msg502041
 
The youtube user, 'debunkified' claimed overunity for such setup. However, he calculated the power in the load (the load was the internal resistance of his DC Ampermeter) as the output voltage of the converter (between its positive and negative output wires) multiplied by the the load current his meter showed, completely disregarding the actual voltage across the load (i.e. across the positives) which was much smaller than the output voltage across the positive and the negative outputs of the converter.

Gyula
   
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It's easier to see as a circuit instead of a block diagram...

Ed
   
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Hi Ed,

I am not fully familiar with the modified Matt motor: when the brushes flip the contacts then any voltage across the motor coil in those moments appear across the brushes, is this correct?

Gyula
   
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It's turtles all the way down
It's easier to see as a circuit instead of a block diagram...

Ed

Somewhat reminiscent of Brad's "Rotary Transformer" Whatever happened to that?


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Hi Ed,

I am not fully familiar with the modified Matt motor: when the brushes flip the contacts then any voltage across the motor coil in those moments appear across the brushes, is this correct?

Gyula

That's how I visualize it,  I have no experience in building or testing the motor, in an attempt to "mimic" the motor actions I built a circuit a couple years back which I posted on EF while playing with the 3BS.  (below)...

Using batteries led to lots of questions as it appeared to run pretty stable over time.   What would happen is the voltage would read stable while the capacity of the battery was being drained.  At that point it would all fall off drastically.   

Ed
   

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Buy me some coffee
Somewhat reminiscent of Brad's "Rotary Transformer" Whatever happened to that?

It's sitting on the shelf not 6 foot away from me.


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Buy me some coffee
It's easier to see as a circuit instead of a block diagram...

Ed

I see two problems

1st-i see a nice big fat juicy current loop
2nd-why is the current on the negative rail lower than the current on the positive rail?--see 1st problem


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Buy me some coffee


Using batteries led to lots of questions as it appeared to run pretty stable over time.   What would happen is the voltage would read stable while the capacity of the battery was being drained.  At that point it would all fall off drastically.   

Ed

Yes
A common error in the B-E-D-I-N-I camp


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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I pointed that out on EF.   Matt was measuring current on the pos rail and calculating the run time of the battery with a given Ah rating.    He was using 7ah battery saying it would normally run for an hour or less at that current but showed it running for 2 hours.    If the actual drain of the battery was used ( neg rail current) then the 2 hour run would be closer to the correct calculations.   

Ed
   

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Buy me some coffee
Hi Brad,

One problem is that the load (in this case a motor) is connected across the positive input and positive output of a step up converter so the load current is driven through the internal circuit of the converter between its positives and this may influence the normal dissipation for the components involved, an unusual and not recommended operation for boost converters.

Another problem is that if the load is a pulse motor,  then it cannot provide much charge current back to the battery unless the pulse motor is modified to provide the flyback or any induced voltage to appear between galvanically independent positive and negative voltage outputs hooked up back to the battery. Such is not shown if it had been meant.

I came across with such kind of setup your simplified drawing shows in a thread here:
https://overunity.com/17184/a-solid-state-dc-to-dc-converter/msg502041/topicseen/#msg502041
 
The youtube user, 'debunkified' claimed overunity for such setup. However, he calculated the power in the load (the load was the internal resistance of his DC Ampermeter) as the output voltage of the converter (between its positive and negative output wires) multiplied by the the load current his meter showed, completely disregarding the actual voltage across the load (i.e. across the positives) which was much smaller than the output voltage across the positive and the negative outputs of the converter.

Gyula

Hi Gyula

Yea,i saw that video,and spotted the error.



Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Buy me some coffee
I pointed that out on EF.   Matt was measuring current on the pos rail and calculating the run time of the battery with a given Ah rating.    He was using 7ah battery saying it would normally run for an hour or less at that current but showed it running for 2 hours.    If the actual drain of the battery was used ( neg rail current) then the 2 hour run would be closer to the correct calculations.   

Ed

Yes,and there in lies there mistake.


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
It's sitting on the shelf not 6 foot away from me.


Brad

Maybe time to get it off the shelf has it seemed to have more promise and better measurement protocol than any of the stuff playing the "battery shell game". If I recall only one battery or power supply used and a visible measurable gain.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
Sr. Member
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Posts: 334
Hi Ed,

Okay on the schema 'mimicking' the motor actions, back then I saw it at EF (together with the other drawing on the motor coil with the brushes and the arrows indicating the changing voltage directions).
The reason for my question was you included two switches in the schematic I am curious where the 2nd switch is in the modified Matt motor?  Perhaps it is an electrically controlled active switch or another pair of brushes.  The goal would be to capture as much energy coming back from the motor coil for reuse as possible, I suppose. 

Thanks
Gyula
   
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Posts: 48
Hi Ed,

Okay on the schema 'mimicking' the motor actions, back then I saw it at EF (together with the other drawing on the motor coil with the brushes and the arrows indicating the changing voltage directions).
The reason for my question was you included two switches in the schematic I am curious where the 2nd switch is in the modified Matt motor?  Perhaps it is an electrically controlled active switch or another pair of brushes.  The goal would be to capture as much energy coming back from the motor coil for reuse as possible, I suppose. 

Thanks
Gyula



Hi Gyula,  it's not really an exact replication of the motor action - how I visualized what the motor was doing - similar responses moving energy back to the source while charging the 3rd battery and driving a load( more like a boost converter with 2 current paths based on the switch position).   The polarity of the coil doesn't change as would the coil in the motor.

I couldn't say for sure how much energy the motor would move back to the source and this circuit seemed a bit more efficient than a motor at the time.  I could be wrong, like I said I didn't build the Matt motor...

Ed
   
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Matt posted a progress vid
Seems hopeful to have it running by Sunday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAGXVZf5G8&feature=youtu.be
   

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Buy me some coffee
Maybe time to get it off the shelf has it seemed to have more promise and better measurement protocol than any of the stuff playing the "battery shell game". If I recall only one battery or power supply used and a visible measurable gain.

Yes,but what is not seen is the invisible loss over time.

The machine is to expensive to run.

If and when i can sort the problem,then it will be re-investigated.
Chet knows the problem,and he also knows who was working on that problem with me,until that came to a sad and abrupt end.
Rather than talk about it here,feel free to discuss it with Chet in private if you wish.


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Buy me some coffee
Matt posted a progress vid
Seems hopeful to have it running by Sunday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAGXVZf5G8&feature=youtu.be

His building skills are quite good.
I think he has a CNC mill--that would be nice to have sitting in the workshop  O0


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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His building skills are quite good.
I think he has a CNC mill--that would be nice to have sitting in the workshop  O0


Brad

Maybe, but I thought he contracted out the making of the polycarbonate pieces? And I laughed out loud when he
talked about hammering down the coil bobbin ends to try to get them to fit -- and of course they still didn't, causing
the whole assembly to be out of kilter.

I think anyone who has wound coils on bobbins has probably encountered that particular problem as the windings
push the bobbin ends outwards. One might anticipate this and correct for it while winding... or one might not.
 :P


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Buy me some coffee
Maybe, but I thought he contracted out the making of the polycarbonate pieces? And I laughed out loud when he
talked about hammering down the coil bobbin ends to try to get them to fit -- and of course they still didn't, causing
the whole assembly to be out of kilter.

I think anyone who has wound coils on bobbins has probably encountered that particular problem as the windings
push the bobbin ends outwards. One might anticipate this and correct for it while winding... or one might not.
 :P

Yes,the bobbin ends were a bit thin.
I always use 5mm or thicker polycarb for bobbin ends--unless im cheating,and using old transformer bobbins.

I did hear him mention in one of his video's that he had a mill,and also dose a lot of 3D printing.

In saying that,he is putting 2"round x 1" thick neo's in that there rotor,and spinning it up to 6000RPM--so he says.
Would not like to be around when that rotor lets go.


Brad


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I could be wrong
but I believe Matt Built his CNC rig

he's a one man band Farmer ,does everything mostly himself
and havin the ability to fix all his equipment was very important [sanz his wee machine shop

To note
these two are well aware of flying magnets , danger and collateral damage
Dave got whacked good..... some time back [mighta broke a rib ??

and I seem to remember Holes in walls mentioned in some of Matts posts ;and him teasing Dave for being in the line of fire when he got whacked.

so yes
they are aware what they're doing could mortally wound them.[or someone else nearby
as well the power they play with could kill [Dave mentions this too, to would be replicators




« Last Edit: 2018-08-04, 13:55:37 by Chet K »
   

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Ignorance (lack of education and real experience) can be haughty
and prideful.
  Not to mention unwilling to "listen."

Both have now demonstrated that they enjoy using
foul language to attack those who provide honest
critique and ask difficult questions.

Closed minds can be a serious handicap.

Hopefully we shall soon see some evidence of actual
performance which can be candidly verified.

There is an easy solution to the risk of 'flying magnets.'
The wind power folk who've been building generators
similar to what Matt is now constructing solved the
problem long ago.  Plastics are not a suitable material
for rotors which are loaded with heavy magnets.

Brushless Motors are now readily available quite
inexpensively.  They also function as really good
alternators.

« Last Edit: 2018-08-05, 06:57:23 by muDped »


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"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

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This segment of the discussion is quite revealing.
Neither Matt nor Dave speak as educated men
but rather as uneducated 'pie in the sky' children.
This sort of behavior is all too common amongst
the Free Energy crowd of those who make fantastic
claims.

Bistander, to his credit, makes excellent argument and
credible requests for 'proof' to both the main proponents.
One can only wonder why they are so evasive and resort
to uncouth attack as their defense.  Truly a ridiculous lack
of self-control in nearly all of their writings. Credibility
seriously at risk.  Have they contracted the Erron Bug?

Well I guess this response answers the question.  How
can anyone take the whole drama seriously?

It would be refreshing to see Dave and Matt conduct
themselves as real men rather than resorting to all of their
childish foolishness.  Apparently it is just a game to them...
« Last Edit: 2018-08-06, 05:46:56 by muDped »


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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MuDped

your a sailor ....I think you missed the best quote  for  perspective

I believe this quote is where the Venom comes from . [and this quote does have a familiar ring ?]


 bistander

Quote

 admit they are false claims, and I'll get out of here.

Regards,

bi

end quote
------------------------------------------------------------


basically "admit you are frauds and liars and ....... .

so an anonymous fellow is good with these two known men trashing their reputations .
that is the benchmark he requires for his departure  from their thread.
----------
that's good for a "Dust up" on any boat .


and to be perfectly clear

I have always believed Dave from the first time I spoke with him [maybe almost ten years now??] when he had that battery last for weeks running BIG loads ,

thats what put him on this path ,and I believe they found the source ,or at least how to manifest the gain ,they may not actually understand it.... but they can do it.

just one mans opinion



I hope they do the demmo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


unrelated to this Topic

member Ricards at Energetic posted this Vid and a new thread

"My search for free energy is over"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=XnmL6CwIAv4

thread here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/21038-my-search-free-energy-over.html

I have always felt member ricards a level headed fellow with strong opinions towards good measurement protocols and honesty.

I am aware of how most here feel about Admin at that forum ,I did not post this here for
conflict...just observing [the fact that ricards posted it gave me pause






« Last Edit: 2018-08-06, 16:49:06 by Chet K »
   

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Chet,

It is improbable that Dave and Matt are intentionally
'Frauds and Liars' but more likely that they are deceived
due to their lack of comprehensive education and
experience.  While they are undoubtedly learning much
as they proceed with their projects, what is puzzling is
their unscientific emotionalism, childish behavior and
their apparent need to trash-talk any who seek more
proof of their fantastic claims.

Suggesting that many should 'replicate' their efforts and
designs, which are clearly hazardous to life and limb, is
never a good idea.  Again, pointing to lack of experience
and lack of real concern for the welfare of others.

Certain behaviors are inexcusable no matter how 'sincere'
the actor seems to be.

Does it really matter that any who participate in the discussion
use handles without revealing their true names?  Particularly
within the forum which is noted for abusive language and
dishonest reporting?

Apparently Dave and Matt believe that by cleverly claiming
to be 'Frauds and Liars' they have outsmarted their 'thorn in
the side,' but again, this is naught but childish deception.  For
what real purpose?

Acting like a Liberal Snowflake isn't really going to impress
any serious minded observers favorably.

So it really is just a game isn't it?

Quote from: Chet
...I believe they found the source ,or at least how to manifest
the gain ,they may not actually understand it.... but they can do it.

While many of us wonder whether it will actually manifest, we
shall see...  The Game goes on.

Bistander has responded as a Manly Adult.  I tend to agree.
« Last Edit: 2018-08-06, 21:07:00 by muDped »


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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well
I did just hang up with Dave ,he assured me Matt's Demmo unit is all built and just awaiting magnets

and Matt is very willing to show this working ,maybe by next weekend .


regarding forum interactions ,behaviors etc etc .....

not an easy topic IMO

hopefully this pending demonstration will happen and shine a light.

respectfully

Chet

PS
MuDped
I hope you don't mind me dropping this off topic post here [below]
if so I will remove it



unrelated to this Topic

member Ricards at Energetic posted this Vid and a new thread

"My search for free energy is over"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=XnmL6CwIAv4

thread here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/21038-my-search-free-energy-over.html

I have always felt member ricards a level headed fellow with strong opinions towards good measurement protocols and honesty.

I am aware of how most here feel about Admin at that forum ,I did not post this here for
conflict...just observing [the fact that ricards posted it gave me pause

Edit to add
David called me back and assured me the demonstration will absolutely take place/



 

   
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