Grenade coil type systems

Author Topic: Grenade coil type systems (Read 106816 times)

Topic Options

Apecore

Grenade coil type systems « on: 2023-09-27, 22:24:11 »

Group: Moderator
Full Member

Posts: 131

Lets do it like a real project

Exploring technical sideways whitin the concept of a grenade coil together with the HF ionisation principle.
Changing the supposed bounderies how these HF/ LF concepts are presented on schematics in order to discover undisclosed output effects

Starting coil setup configuration:

Grenade is configured with a inductor coil.
Tesla coil setup has a connection to a antenna coil which is positioned at inductor coil.

In order to keep compliant with design setups during the rollout of the tests with optional changes on the as built setup version control wil be inplace.
The following information will be part of setup.
1- schematic ( drawing how coils etc are connected)
2- specifications of used coils
3- layout ( picture or drawing of dimensions and positions between the different components)

In order to keep control on working configuration the system wil be cut up in sub- systems
For now we can define 2 sub- systems.
1- HF system (HF generation and grenade)
2- LF- system ( LF generation and LC loop)

switched reluctance AC generator page 1 reply 3

Development no 1
transformers wound with coaxcable page 2 reply 47

« Last Edit: 2023-10-01, 18:02:22 by Apecore »

Apecore	Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #1 on: 2023-09-27, 23:15:21 »
Group: Moderator Full Member Posts: 131	I will be direct. Purpose humanity.. free energy. In other words Nickz its not personal but I prefer you stay on your own bench. Policy here is OU. .. so if there is any modrrator or owner of this forum confirm please this is the goal. Sorry my friend.

Verpies	Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #2 on: 2023-09-27, 23:57:55 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4440	Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-27, 22:24:11 Lets do it like a real project Do you have a guiding operational principle that you'd like to build by ?

Verpies

Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #3 on: 2023-09-27, 23:59:34 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4440

Quote from: bfulmind23 on 2023-09-27, 18:24:00

Do you perhaps know how to find this article? Can't find it on the net.

This is an old paper by two polish guys who apply electrical current to a piece ferrite in order to change its magnetic reluctance.

Full title:
"Konrad and Brudny in “An Improved Method for Virtual Air Gap Length Computation,” in IEEE Transactions on Magnetics, Vol. 41, No. 10, October 2005."

Also, a Bulgarian inventor Valeri Ivanov also claims an electrically controllable reluctance switch.
A piece of ferrite that changes its magnetic reluctance without mechanical drag-back penalty is the Holy Grail for magnetic motor and generator designs.

For example a patent US9742252B2 uses this method to make a switched reluctance AC generator:

Quote

Another electrical means of implementing a reluctance switch is the placement within the primary magnetic path of certain classes of materials that change (typically increase) their reluctance upon the application of electricity. A different way of implementing a reluctance switch is to saturate a sub-region of a primary magnetic path by inserting conducting electrical wires into the material comprising the primary magnetic path.

There is a small thread about such materials here.

KonradBrudny2005.pdf (269.59 kB - downloaded 195 times.)

solarlab

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #4 on: 2023-09-28, 08:25:44 »

Group: Restricted
Sr. Member

Posts: 423

Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-27, 22:24:11

Lets do it like a real project

Exploring technical sideways whitin the concept of a grenade coil together with the HF ionisation principle.
Changing the supposed bounderies how these HF/ LF concepts are presented on schematics in order to discover undisclosed output effects

Hi Apecore,

A real project would probably actually yield some good reuslts - however, as you might notice quite quicky, these forms, and
their paricipants, are not actually up to that task!

Sorry, a noble goal I agree, but as you will soon learn; these forums do not have the talent you seek...

Skills, ability, knowledge, and equipment are relatively non-existant here for this type of engineering development; IMHO.

At least it has not been demonstrated here for over more than 10+ years. Unfortunate... A few rare exceptions but they get
suppressed quite quickly, as has been demonstrated over time.

Maybe a better solution might be to look elsewhere. Someplace where development and engineering are above cut -and-paste
or unfounded opinions and argumentive accusations. JMHO!

SL

Apecore

Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #5 on: 2023-09-28, 12:58:30 »

Group: Moderator
Full Member

Posts: 131

Quote from: verpies on 2023-09-27, 23:59:34

This is an old paper by two polish guys who apply electrical current to a piece ferrite in order to change its magnetic reluctance.

Full title:
"Konrad and Brudny in “An Improved Method for Virtual Air Gap Length Computation,” in IEEE Transactions on Magnetics, Vol. 41, No. 10, October 2005."

Also, a Bulgarian inventor Valeri Ivanov also claims an electrically controllable reluctance switch.
A piece of ferrite that changes its magnetic reluctance without mechanical drag-back penalty is the Holy Grail for magnetic motor and generator designs.

For example a patent US9742252B2 uses this method to make a switched reluctance AC generator:
There is a small thread about such materials here.

Verpies,
This subject could become part of the system as an addition to the Push pull yoke configuration.
My first objective is to start with sub- system 1, the HF part.
I hope that during the progress of this ferrite thred possible ideas/ options on the yoke part.will be mentioned or adressed.

AlienGrey

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #6 on: 2023-09-28, 14:48:01 »

Newbie

Posts: 1606

Well it all depends on what you know like which piece of the jigsaw part dos what and just like medication what each module does and side affects are
you have to take into consideration obviously Ape must have thought he was onto a winner canceling his account and Itsu ignores me at his own
determent but me I’m unconditional in my attitude because at an early age i became a NDE experience for a short time, anything in this existence is possible.

Sil

Grumage

Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #7 on: 2023-09-28, 15:04:18 »

Group: Renaissance Man
Hero Member

Posts: 3095

Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-28, 12:58:30

Verpies,
This subject could become part of the system as an addition to the Push pull yoke configuration.
My first objective is to start with sub- system 1, the HF part.
I hope that during the progress of this ferrite thred possible ideas/ options on the yoke part.will be mentioned or adressed.

Hi Apecore.

Several years ago I remember T-1000 posted a link to an Eastern European video where, and I’m hoping my memory serves me correctly, a simple transformer circuit driving a lightbulb was shown to get brighter when a small Tesla coil was switched on along side it.

I believe it was on the thread Kapanadse cousin over at OU.Com.

Cheers Grum.

---------------------------

Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

AlienGrey	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #8 on: 2023-09-28, 15:49:15 »
Newbie Posts: 1606	Yeah it's still in the Dally thread some where it has to be in resonance and transmit magnetic radiation, the SG changes freq it's a Don Smith thing. Sil

Verpies	Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #9 on: 2023-09-28, 16:16:21 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4440	Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-28, 12:58:30 This subject could become part of the system as an addition to the Push pull yoke configuration. I do not know. I was just answering BeautifulMind's question asked in another thread that got deleted.

Apecore

Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #10 on: 2023-09-28, 17:33:23 »

Group: Moderator
Full Member

Posts: 131

Quote from: Grumage on 2023-09-28, 15:04:18

Hi Apecore.

Several years ago I remember T-1000 posted a link to an Eastern European video where, and I’m hoping my memory serves me correctly, a simple transformer circuit driving a lightbulb was shown to get brighter when a small Tesla coil was switched on along side it.

I believe it was on the thread Kapanadse cousin over at OU.Com.

Cheers Grum.

Thanks for the observation. I know there are a lot test done last decade. Probably the tools are there we just need to connect the rigth dots.
By sayiing that I'm looking for a way to have those observations available when needed but also I'd like to keep this trhead as clean as possible.
If possible we should only use 3 or 4 post to adress a proposed available option and its potential.
F.i. you brougth up a suggestion... next we need the link or specific information and then a vew opinions..
So I can put a link or the thread number in the first starting thread which gives us guick acces to info we want to use on later moment.

Also I will use a policy... ( this is in general) that post like AG did... I call them " non related opinions".. NRO's which are not effective for our goal... it doesn't contribute to the subject.
Probably at certain moment in time I will remove these kind posts as it just useless to archive.
I hope you all can understand this I like a clean thread.

Apecore	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #11 on: 2023-09-28, 17:38:19 »
Group: Moderator Full Member Posts: 131	Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023-09-28, 15:49:15 Yeah it's still in the Dally thread some where it has to be in resonance and transmit magnetic radiation, the SG changes freq it's a Don Smith thing. Sil Would be nice if we could findva summerised post where we can link to, as I suggested

Apecore	Re: Ruslan type system « Reply #12 on: 2023-09-28, 17:44:15 »
Group: Moderator Full Member Posts: 131	Quote from: verpies on 2023-09-28, 16:16:21 I do not know. I was just answering BeautifulMind's question asked in another thread that got deleted. I must say the way you have added this subject here is a good example on effectively collecting information. I will add this post to the tread index page.

Verpies

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #13 on: 2023-09-28, 17:47:29 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4440

Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-27, 22:24:11

2- specifications of used coils

Since you are not proposing a concrete coil topology, I will take the lead and propose to start with 2 bucking coils wound on a ferrite sausage (composed of many toroidal cores glued together - powder iron or zinc ferrite, as big as possible).

The idea is to supply one coil with DC or LF, while the second coil is pulsed with HF pulses of the same H amplitude as that created by the DC(LF) coil.
During the peak of the pulse, their magnetic fields will buck and create field topology like this:

...and when the current flowing in the HF pulse coil is zero or reversed, their magnetic fields will aid and create field topology like this:

Grenade coil type systems

BuckingCoilsOnCore.png (401.7 kB, 1479x818 - viewed 1402 times.)

Grenade coil type systems

AidingCoilsOnCore.png (12.65 kB, 443x230 - viewed 1160 times.)

Grenade coil type systems

BuckingCoils.jpg (51.89 kB, 423x216 - viewed 747 times.)

Grenade coil type systems

BuckingCoils2.jpg (66.99 kB, 426x306 - viewed 1565 times.)

Grenade coil type systems

AidingFields.png (90.87 kB, 383x257 - viewed 734 times.)

Verpies

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #14 on: 2023-09-28, 18:13:52 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4440

Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-27, 22:24:11

1- schematic ( drawing how coils etc are connected)

The schematic is guided by the need to quickly switch between these two field configurations with approximately 1% duty cycle.

Consequently, the HF pulsed coil cannot be composed of many turns of wire because that would create a high inductance coil (with large inter-turn capacitance (ITC), too).
The large inductance of such coil would just choke any HF pulsed current and its inter-turn capacitance (ITC) will distort the field it and cause LC ringing.
To change the current through this pulsed coil quickly, it will need to have few turns (low inductance) and maybe be wound with a coaxial cable to defeat the ITC and be supplied by a strong HV pulses, to create a magnetic field comparable to the DC(LF) coil's.

However, the DC (or LF) coil can be composed of many turns because we do not want the current through it to change quickly and we do not want the HF pulses to get back to the DC or LF supply anyway.

To verify whether this works, a self-made magnetic 2D magnetic field sensor can be inserted in the location where the bucking field line becomes perpendicular to the axis of the coil, and scoped on 2-ch simultaneously.

Apecore

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #15 on: 2023-09-28, 18:28:42 »

Group: Moderator
Full Member

Posts: 131

If you don't mind I would propose to challenge your presented concept with the grenade setup?
I believe as you are always a vew steps ahead of the music you did not launch this concept out of nothing.

So I hope I can ask the right questions as I assume you have a purpose with this analogy.
It differs from my perspective in order to stay close to the Ruslan setup but thats not an relevant issue.

So is there a comparisment or joined effort in these two concepts?

Verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #16 on: 2023-09-28, 18:31:34 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4440	Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-28, 18:28:42 If you don't mind I would propose to challenge your presented concept with the grenade setup? Of course, I do not want yes-men. Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-28, 18:28:42 So is there a comparisment or joined effort in these two concepts? I do not understand the word "comparisment".

Apecore	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #17 on: 2023-09-28, 18:41:50 »
Group: Moderator Full Member Posts: 131	Great, me either. Attached my idea related to the grenade coil topology. Crux is probably the yoke setup with the push pull driver. First step I consider is to get the HF HV running Therefore I want to use 2Mhz 22uH grenade and a 2Mhz resonating Tesla combination. Grenade coil type systems sketch.jpg (78.16 kB, 756x1008 - viewed 1042 times.)

Apecore	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #18 on: 2023-09-28, 18:43:00 »
Group: Moderator Full Member Posts: 131	Quote from: verpies on 2023-09-28, 18:31:34 Of course, I do not want yes-men. I do not understand the word "comparisment". Use of concept effectively

Verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #19 on: 2023-09-28, 19:01:01 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4440	Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-28, 18:41:50 Crux is probably the yoke setup with the push pull driver. If you think that magic happens in the yoke, then let's switch to the STAAAR Yoke device.

Verpies

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #20 on: 2023-09-28, 19:05:27 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4440

Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-28, 18:41:50

I do not believe that the published documentaion of the coil internals is complete and accurate, thus I do not want to rebuild a coil that just looks superficially similar to the many replication attempts shown on the myriad of YT videos. This is what Nick has been doing for years and look where it has led him.

Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).

Apecore

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #21 on: 2023-09-28, 19:16:45 »

Group: Moderator
Full Member

Posts: 131

Quote from: verpies on 2023-09-28, 19:01:01

I do not believe that the published documentaion of the coil internals is complete and accurate, thus I do not want to rebuild a coil that just looks superficially similar to the many replication attempts shown on the myriad of YT videos. This is what Nick has been doing for years and look where it has led him.

Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).

I understand.but Nick and most others stayed inside the boundaries and no real out of the box ideas where lainched.

But ok, again your proppsal is legimit you have my full support as it is for me more then education and it brings generally usefull information.

Besides that I will do my propsed built and will post some results. I hope we come to a point of interrst regarding some results.
If not this concept will be terminated

Verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #22 on: 2023-09-28, 19:30:33 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4440	Quote from: Apecore on 2023-09-28, 18:41:50 Therefore I want to use 2Mhz 22uH grenade and a 2Mhz resonating Tesla combination. Why 2MHz ? Why 22µH ? What about the ITC & IWC, will you want to maximize them or minimize them ...and why ? What type of windings do you plan to have on the Yoke ?

AlienGrey

Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #23 on: 2023-09-28, 20:02:45 »

Newbie

Posts: 1606

Quote from: verpies on 2023-09-28, 19:05:27

I do not believe that the published documentaion of the coil internals is complete and accurate, thus I do not want to rebuild a coil that just looks superficially similar to the many replication attempts shown on the myriad of YT videos. This is what Nick has been doing for years and look where it has led him.

Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).

That coil your showing wont really do anything other than cancel out any useful phase angle.

Verpies	Re: Grenade coil type systems « Reply #24 on: 2023-09-28, 20:12:44 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4440	Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023-09-28, 20:02:45 That coil your showing wont really do anything other than cancel out any useful phase angle. That one ?