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Author Topic: The Patent Of William Barbat  (Read 178808 times)
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MH...

I'd be delighted if you could expound a little on your spring analogies and compare them to the compression of a gas.

Then I may throw a few questions at you, in a good spirit of course.

Hi Ion,

Okay, I thought about this for a while.  To be honest the few times I covered this in school I didn't fully get it, and I hope I what I say is correct.

I think of the volume vs. temperature curve at constant pressure (I think) for a gas and it is almost ideal.  Only when you start to approach 0K does the curve start to deviate.  What's fascinating is that the slope of that curve is telling you where 0K is.

Of course I remember PV=nRT.  At a given temp the pressure times the volume is a constant.

I think where I didn't get it was with respect to the thermodynamics when you compress a gas.  You are doing work, and I think that the gas does behave like a spring, if and only if the process is thermally isolated from the gas, which is basically impossible.

To say it in plain English, if you compress a gas in a cylinder with a piston, it does behave like a spring with one caveat.  The caveat being that the gas heats up when you do this.  That heat will flow into the walls of the cylinder, hence the energy return from the compressed spring will be less than it is "supposed" to be.

I hope that I am close.

MileHigh
   
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Quarktoo:

You are making a complete ass of yourself.  I think it's time for you to stop.  I have a feeling if you keep on going like this you are going to implode in a few days and disappear.

MileHigh

What the hell?   lol
   
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MileHigh,
"The Amazing Carnac"
Are you a mystic at your day Job?
Do you have any predictions for the Coming year?
     ;-}
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Hi Ion,

Okay, I thought about this for a while.  To be honest the few times I covered this in school I didn't fully get it, and I hope I what I say is correct.

I think of the volume vs. temperature curve at constant pressure (I think) for a gas and it is almost ideal.  Only when you start to approach 0K does the curve start to deviate.  What's fascinating is that the slope of that curve is telling you where 0K is.

Of course I remember PV=nRT.  At a given temp the pressure times the volume is a constant.

I think where I didn't get it was with respect to the thermodynamics when you compress a gas.  You are doing work, and I think that the gas does behave like a spring, if and only if the process is thermally isolated from the gas, which is basically impossible.

To say it in plain English, if you compress a gas in a cylinder with a piston, it does behave like a spring with one caveat.  The caveat being that the gas heats up when you do this.  That heat will flow into the walls of the cylinder, hence the energy return from the compressed spring will be less than it is "supposed" to be.

I hope that I am close.

MileHigh

Yes, you are correct in all that you have said on this. If the process is truly adiabatic, the gas temperature will remain at the elevated temperature due to the work done on the gas. If the heating of the gas is allowed to dissipate through a non-adiabatic process, the temperature will show a pulse, then return to ambient, as electromagnetic energy in the form of heat is liberated from the compressed molecules.

The interesting thing is that although the pressure will drop slightly as the energy is liberated, the gas molecules at some point become acquiesced to their new highly compressed state and they return to ambient temperature.

I find this process fascinating. It is as if all matter, not just gasses must liberate some electromagnetic energy in the form of heat when they are compressed. They also must absorb electromagnetic energy (become cold) when they are expanded. Even a steel bar in a mult-ton press behaves this way.

And an extremely pressurized tank of air will return to ambient after it's heat pulse is liberated. The gas molecules are still very tightly compressed, but they adjust happily to their new condition.

So what is being liberated in this mechanical to electromagnetic conversion system?

We take modern refrigeration and air conditioning heat pumps for granted, but there is something really interesting going on when we meditate on it.

We seem to understand the process, and have worked out all the equations since Sadi Carnot first advanced his principles of thermodynamic engines at the age of 28.

But do we really understand?
« Last Edit: 2010-12-24, 02:47:49 by ION »


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Ion:

It is a fascinating subject.  The various air molecules are like billiard balls that never stop bouncing  of each other.  They undergo "perfectly elastic" collisions where no energy is lost for each bounce.  That's what air pressure really is, millions of little basketballs hitting the surface of something at some sustained rate.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-12-24, 21:52:27 by MileHigh »
   
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Chet, the name is Joseph Larmor. Larmor, J. 1897. "On the Theory of Magnetic Influence of Spectra; and on the Radiation From Moving Ions." Phil. Mag 63:503-512.
Larmor showed that photon energy is radiated from a moving charge in proportion to the square of the charge's acceleration. Thus, a charge of lower mass, e.g. a low-mass electron, accelerates more quickly than one of "normal" mass, and therefore radiates proportionally more energy for the same inductive force.
   
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itworks,
Your a very likable fellow,I like your "handle" and what you have to say!
We have the talent here and the desire to "try" this ,can you shed anymore light ?

Thank you
Chet
   
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Chet, I believe Larmor's equation forms the basis for Barbat's work. The main shifts of paradigm are 1) We have to accept that low "effective" mass electrons actually are lower mass than normal. They have been observed for decades doing things that indicate they have lower mass. But because they tend to look like they are producing more energy out than in, and people are convinced that is impossible, they have made up other "relativistic" explanations for their behavior, and called them low "effective" mass, meaning "it looks like it's lower than normal mass, but we don't believe it."

The second paradigm shift Barbat is responsible for is the rejection of Helmholtz's famous claim that Newton's laws of thermodynamics applied to electrodynamics and magnetic energy. Barbat has gone through Helmholtz's original paper of 1847 that was presented to - and rejected by - the Berlin Society of Physicists. Helmholtz went on to self-publish the paper, with the disingenuous claim that it had been "read before" the Society, and he won all kinds of awards from royalty for it. However, it was based on flawed science, and Barbat has gone through it carefully and shown exactly why it was incorrect. But, as some of Barbat's writings say, Helmholtz did get something right: If forces exist which are not in line with each other, (which now we know induction and magnetic force not to be in-line), then there exists the possibility for infinite gain or loss of energy. TRUE. Helmholtz just assumed that all forces were in-line, so this situation wouldn't exist.

Think about it. An electron continually circles around a proton, without falling to the center or falling off. No one puts energy into it to make it do that; it just goes all the time. Additionally, that electron constantly emits energy and mass in the form of photons (radiation). No one is putting fuel in or material, yet out comes energy and mass, constantly. That fact in itself shows that we're nuts if we don't think there's infinite energy out there.

Barbat's genius lies in his willingness to accept that Hubbard's generator did what the reporters said it did, rather than poo-pooing it because it was unexplainable at the time. If it did work, then there had to be something wrong with our accepted version of the law of conservation of energy. So he went back through about two centuries of original papers, from Newton, Ampere, Gauss, Helmholtz, Maxwell, even Einstein, Bohr, you name it. And it was at Helmholtz where the science went haywire, he shows.

Another breakthrough Barbat made was realizing why Hendershot couldn't make his generator work when he tried again around 1960: Copper wire was now shiny, and lacked the cupric oxide coating of old wire. Knowing that, I believe Barbat could have revived the Hubbard and Hendershot type of generators, except that radium is no longer available in the quantities they worked with in the 1920s. So Barbat started looking into other photoconductors that are mentioned in his patent, as they require wavelengths more easily obtainable.
« Last Edit: 2011-01-06, 04:57:38 by itworks »
   
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Chet, I believe Larmor's equation forms the basis for Barbat's work. The main shifts of paradigm are 1) We have to accept that low "effective" mass electrons actually are lower mass than normal. They have been observed for decades doing things that indicate they have lower mass. But because they tend to look like they are producing more energy out than in, and people are convinced that is impossible, they have made up other "relativistic" explanations for their behavior, and called them low "effective" mass, meaning "it looks like it's low mass, but we don't believe it."

The second paradigm shift Barbat is responsible for is the rejection of Helmholtz's famous claim that Newton's laws of thermodynamics applied to electrodynamics and magnetic energy. Barbat has gone through Helmholtz's original paper of 1847 that was presented to - and rejected by - the Berlin Society of Physicists. Helmholtz went on to self-publish the paper, with the disingenuous claim that it had been "read before" the Society, and he won all kinds of awards from royalty for it. However, it was based on flawed science, and Barbat has gone through it carefully and shown exactly why it was incorrect. But, as some of Barbat's writings say, Helmholtz did get something right: If forces exist which are not in line with each other, (which now we know induction and magnetic force not to be in-line), then there exists the possibility for infinite gain or loss of energy. TRUE. Helmholtz just assumed that all forces were in-line, so this situation wouldn't exist.

Think about it. An electron continually circles around a photon, without falling to the center or falling off. No one puts energy into it to make it do that; it just goes all the time. Additionally, that electron constantly emits energy and mass in the form of photons. No one is putting fuel in or material, yet out comes energy and mass, constantly. That fact in itself shows that we're nuts if we don't think there's infinite energy out there.

Barbat's genius lies in his willingness to accept that Hubbard's generator did what the reporters said it did, rather than poo-pooing it because it was unexplainable at the time. If it did work, then there had to be something wrong with our accepted version of the law of conservation of energy. So he went back through about two centuries of original papers, from Newton, Ampere, Gauss, Helmholtz, Maxwell, even Einstein, Bohr, you name it. And it was at Helmholtz where the science went haywire, he shows.

The other breakthrough Barbat made was realizing why Hendershot couldn't make his generator work when he tried again around 1960: Copper wire was now shiny, and lacked the cupric oxide coating of old wire. Knowing that, I believe Barbat could have revived the Hubbard and Hendershot type of generators, except that radium is no longer available in the quantities they worked with in the 1920s. So Barbat started looking into other photoconductors that are mentioned in his patent, as they require wavelengths more easily obtainable.

itworks:

It is encouraging to see that you have indeed read the patent. These were exactly the parts that caused me to take notice, though I think many have missed it.

Regarding Hendershot, he poured wax between the coil stacks and the capacitor, a point missed by many. This may have contained the traces of Radium in suspension.



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As I recall, Hubbard's generator put out a fair amount of power (ran the boat motor) and was operated by a HV supply through a distributor.  I don't think the two devices, Hubbard and Barbatt, are related.

Regarding the Larmor Formula for calculating the total power radiated by a nonrelativistic point charge as it accelerates:

This is electromagnetic radiation.  I think Barbatt misinterpreted the statement "low mass electrons" to mean a different type of electron as opposed to one with a larger mass.  "Low mass electrons" is used when discussing electrons as compared to heavier particles such as ions.

Example from: http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~ryden/ast822/week7.pdf

Quote
The source of bremsstrahlung from a hot gas is the interactions between electrons and ions; since it's the low-mass electrons that have the greater acceleration, the electrons are the predominant source of radiation.

I suggest looking at "what else" is radiated away from moving particles.
   

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EDIT:

Regarding the Hubbard Coil:

Quote
To guard against the possibility of ordinary storage batteries concealed
about the boat as a power source, instead of the Hubbard coil, both electric
motor and coil were lifted free from their blocks, but no hidden wiring was
revealed.  The coil used as a power unit was eleven inches in diameter and
fourteen inches in length.  According to Hubbard, tests of the coil show a
current of 280 amperes and 125 volts, which, he pointed out was equivalent
to approximately forty-five horse power, or sufficient to drive an
automobile.  The current is pulsating.

While the device has been patented, the claims for it are so broad that
Hubbard says he does not feel safe in making public his secret.  In general,
he says, it is made up of a group of eight electro-magnets, each with
primary and secondary windings of copper wire, which are arranged around a
large steel core.  The core likewise has a single winding.  A coil thus
constructed, he says, is lifeless until given an initial impulse.  This is
done by connecting the ends of its windings for a fraction of a second to an
ordinary[two words unreadable R.L.R.] -ing circuit, he says.
I doubt it was doped with Radium or any other radioactive material.  Eight electromagnets and core winding.  I bet it got hot from eddie currents in the cores.  Hell, look at it.  It's like a TPU!  Sequentially pulsed ring of coils, HV pulses.  

Get rid of those cores and this looks interesting now.  Pulsing output - I bet this coincided with the HV pulse.  Wow!  I had written Hubbard off as having too little info, but it is there.
   
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It wasn't doped at all. Hubbard was apparently working on a hunch after reading a tiny article in Scientific American by a man named Liemer (Leimer? I forget.) who noted the magnification of a radio signal from radium held at only a certain angle to the wire. Hubbard realized that if the signal was magnified, why not feed back some of the extra power and cause it to be self-sustaining? At least this is what Barbat is saying.
   

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It wasn't doped at all. Hubbard was apparently working on a hunch after reading a tiny article in Scientific American by a man named Liemer (Leimer? I forget.) who noted the magnification of a radio signal from radium held at only a certain angle to the wire. Hubbard realized that if the signal was magnified, why not feed back some of the extra power and cause it to be self-sustaining? At least this is what Barbat is saying.

Hubbard also said that the energy came from the air before he said he used radioactive materials.

Think about this for a second, gents, spherics said that pulsing a coil of high impedance with HV DC produces a magnified field effect (Tesla's radiant electricity effect).  Will a magnetized core in a solenoid increase it's impedance?
   
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Hopefully to help out a bit:

You can't say a "coil of high impedance" because the impedance of a coil is a function of it's inductance and the driving sine wave frequency:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/impl.html

When you talk about pulsing a coil with DC then the term impedance is not normally used anymore.  That's because if you want to look at the impedance of a coil under these conditions, then you are really talking about the instantaneous impedance of the coil as a function of time and other factors.  What you are really talking about now is the transient response of the coil.  The transient response of a coil to a DC impulse is a function of the inductance, the voltage of the pulse, the length of time of the pulse, and the output resistance of the pulse driver circuit and the resistance of the coil itself:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/indtra.html#c2

You also have to be very careful about precisely what you mean when you say you "pulse a coil."  Are you talking about some sort of relay or MOSFET or transistor that applies voltage to the coil?  Before the pulse are you connected to the coil or not?  What about after the pulse?  In more technical terms, what is the pulsing source output resistance before it pulses the coil, while it is pulsing the coil, and after it pulses the coil?  The way the coil responds will be directly affected by the output resistance of the pulsing DC signal source through the second and third phases of the pulse waveform.

You can assume that moment the driving pulse source goes back to zero volts, no matter what the output impedance of the pulse source may be, then the coil will start to discharge the energy that the driving pulse just put into it.  Therefore the coil switches from storing the pulse energy supplied to it to discharging that stored energy.  It literally changes operating modes in mid stream.  You can research into the behaviour of the coil during the discharging phase for yourselves if you are interested.

It doesn't matter what kind of coil you are talking about, from the smallest coil you might make with a few loops of wire, to the biggest Tesla coil you want to work with, they all behave essentially the same way.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2011-01-09, 21:48:36 by MileHigh »
   

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The question is: does the transient impedance of a coil change if I place a magnetized core inside the coil? Yes or no?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
The question is: does the transient impedance of a coil change if I place a magnetized core inside the coil? Yes or no?

Firstly, define what you mean by "transient impedance" and "magnetized core".

.99
   

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Firstly, define what you mean by "transient impedance" and "magnetized core".

.99

I'll rephrase it:

If you place a bat magnet inside a solenoid coil, does this change the response of the coil when pulsed?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
What is a "bat" magnet?

Try to be little more descriptive Grumps....this is somewhat inefficient.  :-\

"bar" magnet?

Is the solenoid made with a ferrite core, or is it air-core? What direction is the pulsed field relative to the magnet? What material is the magnet?

.99
   
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Grumpy, I dont know if this helps but ( http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=173.msg1483#msg1483 ) I did some experiments and found it does change the inductance of the coil and the inductance change was relative to the polarity of the magnet in relationship to the polarity of the charge created by the pulse.
   

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Grumpy, I dont know if this helps but ( http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=173.msg1483#msg1483 ) I did some experiments and found it does change the inductance of the coil and the inductance change was relative to the polarity of the magnet in relationship to the polarity of the charge created by the pulse.

Thanks.  This is what I was asking about.  I'm wondering if I can get the pulsed coil force effect with less wire by adding a magnetic field.
   
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Grrr….. ok did not want to say this but I took a waxed 3" tall pvc form and wrapped it with one layer of metglass then a few layers of varnish to hold it s shape.

When i removed the form, I covered the form in one layer of cork, then wax paper, and once again wrapped it with metglass/ varnish.

This gave me two rigid metglass tubes, one would fit inside the other with enough space between for a helical coil of magnet wire.

With a hand full of tiny tiny neo's i stuck them to the inside of the smaller tube all south facing the metglass tube wall

Then with a hand full of tiny tiny neo's i coated the outside of the larger tube with all north facing the metglass tube wall.

This will cause a obstacle to the pulse when the coil is pulsed in one polarity.
When pulsed in the opposite polarity ( where the magnets are simulating a field like the one the wire thought it would need to create ) There were some noticeably stronger currents as measured across a resistor.

Im sure you could do the same thing with iron sheet from mcmaster karr if you do not have any spools of metglass. In fact you may get saturation faster with the iron.
   

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I wonder if a radial force is observable in the that setup.
   
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We follow patents because, lo and behold, someone's over-unity idea might actually WORK! Thus, they may have filed a patent.
   
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We follow patents because, lo and behold, someone's over-unity idea might actually WORK! Thus, they may have filed a patent.
Very good reasoning.  Many people would.  It's just that the CIA, NSA and others like Homeland Security look at everything! (they have the legal right), so anything that might upset the "apple cart" might get classified and you'll get nothing, since you can't tell anyone.  With the new Patriot act anyone!! can have anything!! done to them legally.  I've been the Air Force with a medium level security clearance, so I have enough experience to know a little bit whereof I speak.

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It appears William Barbat's website (Levitronics) is still up and running, but no new posts  or info there:

http://www.levitronicsenergy.com/science.htm

I tried to post to their blogspot to no avail. It appears only one person (one of the contacts) has posted there.

http://levitronics.blogspot.com/

Is this turning out to be vaporware?
« Last Edit: 2013-02-25, 18:13:59 by ION »


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