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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 491940 times)

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
The modulation also brought to mind the gyration vibration in the TPU.


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Indeed WW,

If and when I can achieve that wave form in my sim (I've asked bolt to try an recall how he did it), then I'll be able to do the FFT on it.

.99

Yea, that sim. from Bolt was a replica of the waveform Romero posted; I wished he could find those files and you can do a sim. on it.  I came close but can't tune it with just the AC caps alone. I can't change the coil resistance on the super glued coils easily. I like the idea of mariuscivic(?) on the OU forum where he proposed to use CD's sandwiched with magnets and coils where he can move things around easier and much cheaper than using more solid plastics just to prove/disaprove concepts.

chrisC

ps: this one:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJfVDZmuwx8
   
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The rotor is plastic with magnets in it.  This constitutes a change in flux density by it's very design.

Yes, it does. However, the passing magnets should account for 1, maybe two frequencies. I see 4 and a possible 5th and 6th.

This is why I'm interested in generating an FFT.
   

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Frequency equals matter...


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Thought I would snag this for the thread.

With the short you have a generator in there.


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As for working out means to cancel Lenz law in the generating coils, there is a way I am thinking that may be interesting. This goes above and beyond trying the D22 as always on, or trying a second hall sensor on the drive coil placed where they should be when under load.

1) If you cascaded the generator coils by let's say two positions. This means you identify your generator coil pairs as 1 to 7. You connect the bottom coil of 1 in series to the top coil of 3, and so on. Something like this.

Bottom 1 + Top 3
Bottom 2 + Top 4
Bottom 3 + Top 5
Bottom 4 + Top 6
Bottom 5 + Top 7
Bottom 6 + Top 1
Bottom 7 + Top 2

Now when the magnet hits coil pair 1, what will  happen? :o

Well the energy hit onto coil pair 1 will be shared by 3 and 6 that will be in their various stages of magnet excitation or no magnet excitation. If the generator coil orientation towards the rotor magnets is right, some instances should create either additional repulsion or attraction to the rotor and help it turn. This is a theory right now, but I think if the generators coils were properly oriented when mounted to the plates and when facing their side of the rotor magnets, this should work. Testing this would be easy with two drive coils and two generator coil pairs. You chose which two generator coil pairs by aligning a rotor magnet under one pair and looking for another coil pair that has the magnet just past the TDC. The above connection is just for giving you the idea but it may not be the best mix of inter coil connections.

This may even work with the the drive coils if using three pairs placed at 180 degrees.

Bottom D11 to Top D22
Bottom D22 to Top D33
Bottom D33 to Top D11

Another idea is to connect gen coil pairs in parallel but put hall sensors at the TDC of each generator coil so that at TDC, you switch the wires on the gen coils around. This would produce DC output and eliminate the fwbr altogether.

wattsup



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Peter or Chris

If you have a Oscilloscope with a CRT like Romero, can you guys try and capture a waveform like his on one of the coils only, and place the dynamo close to the scope?

I want to see if the proximity to the CRT will distort the waveform and create a similar slope or tilt to the waveform.


@all,

another crazy idea to explain the tilt could be the mysterious "magnetic walls"  that were discovered by the Russians experimenting on the SEARL generator.  These "walls" were detected at large distances away from the machine and they resembled ripples in a pond, meaning, concentric disturbances centered on the machine.  They describe their experiment in a paper that's floating around on the net.  There are similarities between the SEARL and this romerouk dynamo.

EM
   
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Yea, that sim. from Bolt was a replica of the waveform Romero posted; I wished he could find those files and you can do a sim. on it.  I came close but can't tune it with just the AC caps alone. I can't change the coil resistance on the super glued coils easily. I like the idea of mariuscivic(?) on the OU forum where he proposed to use CD's sandwiched with magnets and coils where he can move things around easier and much cheaper than using more solid plastics just to prove/disaprove concepts.

chrisC

ps: this one:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJfVDZmuwx8

Using the bias magnets will tune the coil values. So, you can play with both, coil values and capacitor values.

These bias magnets have another function besides tuning the coil value.
I showed that at OU, first page of the 3D simulation thread.
So, my advise: tune the bias magnets first for that purpose.
Don't forget to do that with a fixed load and keep that load while tuning.

Another thing you might check is the resonance timing towards TDC.
During resonance the coil impedance is equal to the coil resistance, so it obtains its lowest impedance value at that point in time.
This is the moment where the energy of the coil + parallel capacitor is easiest to be transfered to the buffer capacitor.
An emptied coil capacitor allows for maximum BEMF current in the coil, charging that emptied capacitor.
Maximum BEMF current flow in the coil at the wrong moment in time will cause unwanted drag.

« Last Edit: 2011-06-24, 10:24:52 by teslaalset »
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Thanks teslaalset,

I'll keep this in mind when playing with the sim.  O0

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   

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Buy me some coffee
Darren I will be doing some tests tonight, if you need to know any info let me know like inductance with the magnet over it and as it moves away i can video the inductance meter, i will perform wattsup questions above also.
   
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Thanks teslaalset,

I'll keep this in mind when playing with the sim.  O0

.99

Are you performing simulations as well?
Ansys?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Darren I will be doing some tests tonight, if you need to know any info let me know like inductance with the magnet over it and as it moves away i can video the inductance meter, i will perform wattsup questions above also.

Hi Peter. I'll keep that in mind as I progress, thanks.

@teslaalset,

I'm attempting to perform an electrical equivalent simulation in PSpice.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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I wonder if perhaps RomeroUK inadvertently gave us wrong information about his rotor design.

He did say he played with a few rotors and even corrected himself about the dimensions.    But what about the magnet polarities?



Maybe the flat spots in the voltage waveform tell us the rotor magnet polarities should not be uniform but alternating:   N   S  N  S  N  S  N  S,  just like in the original Muller's design.


I'm beginning to think so especially after looking at the rotor modulation I posted earlier,  I said it takes 8 cycles per rotor, but that rotor modulation is a bit faster, so I think we have 4 cycles per rotor which implies an alternating magnet polarity !  Besides,  biasing the ferrites  (unless very hard all the way past saturation) can't produce that much time delay for that flat spot in the voltage.  (blue curve)

EM



« Last Edit: 2011-06-24, 16:20:55 by EMdevices »
   
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I wonder if perhaps RomeroUK inadvertently gave us wrong information about his rotor design.

 Besides,  biasing the ferrites  (unless very hard all the way past saturation) can't produce that much time delay for that flat spot in the voltage.  (blue curve)

EM


EM,

I seriously doubt that biasing the ferrite is much of the important action. Those cores should be there for 2 reasons only.
1. Add storage capacity to the coil
2. Enhance reconnection between the stator magnets when the rotor magnet is pushed out of the area.

It is also my opinion that the flat spot simply represents the point where the reversed rotor magnet is in opposition with both stator magnets. The resulting field is then radial. When that radial field is centered (vertically) on each coil, induction stops and so does release of stored energy from when the stator magnets are connected. This release of the previously stored energy is delayed during the time the rotor/stator combination is in opposition but will fall off at a much slower rate.

This isn't B.S. folks. Lenz is circumvented simply because induction cannot happen when the rotor/stator magnets are in opposition and that radial field is centered on each coil. The rotor magnets must be opposite the stator magnets and not alternate around the rotor.

The energy lost during rotor magnet insertion is regained when it exits.
   
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BTW:

Adding an external magnet to a ferrous core decreases the coil inductance. This also decreases the action/reaction time of that coil. The result is opposite to delay.

A bit of clarification:

When the rotor magnet is between the stator magnets there are two radial fields produced. One between the top stator magnet and rotor magnet and the other between the bottom stator magnet and same rotor magnet. That flat spot should be showing that the radial field is well centered (vertically) on it's coil.

It is a simple concept and can be seen with a iron-filing on paper test.
   

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Buy me some coffee
EM my scopes are all digital these days no CRT
   
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Let me explain what the magnetic biasing does, in case you guys missed it.


Assume the top ferrite coils are biased to saturation with a S pole downward and N pole upward.

EDIT:  I just did a test, (see next posts) and I did not see any difference, perhaps it's too hard to bias the ferrite cores and this concept only works for closed magnetic circuits, like a toroid.


1) If a N-pole up magnet passes by a saturated ferrite, it induces a small voltage since the coil is practically an air core coil.  This is because the polarity of the rotor magnet aides the biasing magnet and the ferrite is already saturated.

2) If a S-pole up magnet passes by the saturated ferrite, it induces a voltage that is almost 1000 times LARGER than that of an air core coil.  This is because the polarity of the rotor magnet opposes that of the biasing magnet and brings the ferrite out of saturation.



In essence we have a magnetic diode !   So I'm wondering if there are missing peaks in that waveform that we don't see because they are very small.


EM
« Last Edit: 2011-06-25, 06:56:10 by EMdevices »
   
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EM,

I really hope you are correct for this device.

Unfortunately, my experience tells me otherwise. There are some rather rare things happening. We'll see.

Since I do have a couple of different CRT based scopes maybe I can answer your earlier question as well.

   
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Those antiquated CRTs might come in handy after all.    O0

EM
   
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Yes, antiquated.

But the only way to see a signal for what it really is ( but only if you know how to read it  ;D ).

I use my DSO when I'm not interested in doing the math or the scan rate jaggies won't hide anything or when the averaging between scans isn't likely to show something not there.

I just realized.... My home DSO hasn't been turned on in almost a year  ??? Last time I had it on I used it as a curve tracer   :)

Oh well,  it is pretty !

I have a very industrial 1 gHz lab quality Tek ( from the mid 90's ) which has never been effected by anything I've seen.

Would you say a Tektronix 465 is about the same grade as the one used by Romero?

Between the two we should see something once I reassemble the spin generator. (Old project not unlike the Romero device)


I avoid using my DSO unless I'm looking at conventional circuits. Sure, it will ignore most mag fields but the last one lost it's cookies without a probe connected during an experiment. I'm not in a position to buy another one.
 
   
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@WW
Quote
I really hope you are correct for this device.

Unfortunately, my experience tells me otherwise.



Guess what WW,  you might be right!


I wound this coil today and biased it quite heavily (6 neos vs 1 on the rotor)  and the waveform looked just as happy and undistorted, almost mocking me.   >:(

I got too much textbook stuff in my head that I need too flush out.   ;D

EM

PS  I want to try this saturation stuff with a toroid, which should saturate a lot easier, but I'll have to saturate it with a current instead of a magnet, since it's a closed loop.  I have to know if this magnetic diode concept works,  even Tesla talked about it and it's so intriguing. 
   
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@WW


Guess what WW,  you might be right!


I wound this coil today and biased it quite heavily (6 neos vs 1 on the rotor)  and the waveform looked just as happy and undistorted, almost mocking me.   >:(

I got too much textbook stuff in my head that I need too flush out.   ;D

EM

PS  I want to try this saturation stuff with a toroid, which should saturate a lot easier, but I'll have to saturate it with a current instead of a magnet, since it's a closed loop.  I have to know if this magnetic diode concept works,  even Tesla talked about it and it's so intriguing.  

Biasing/saturating  only limits the quantity of magnetic domains we can flip and the ease of doing so.

As for magnetic diodes... take a look at documents/links posted on the OUR magnetic amplifier thread. What you propose has already been done.  I still have the graphic you found about a proposed mag-amp bridge rectifier ;)

Closed loops in toroids... that is another story.  Did you know the H field can deflect/distort the B field even in a toroid, and vise versa?


Something of particular interest to you: Starting at page 46 of http://ia600402.us.archive.org/29/items/MagneticAmplifiers/MagneticAmplifiers.pdf
 
« Last Edit: 2011-06-25, 12:57:41 by WaveWatcher »
   
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Hello to all.
 hello @em devices.  8)
  i like to ask some one here about this generator did some one has make reply working devices like romero. or still no one has reply .im vondering how is hard to reply something and whit shematics can we imagen we here in to this forum has traed to reply some devices  whitout eny kind sheme is hard but i thing and now is hard to make devices whitt all sheme given here <IST  true is not simple and is not easy i imagen that and romeru uk . and for him is hard to make more powerfull devices like this <ist @rumero.uk. some time is hard to make reply of even of if you make duble  ???

if we thing or imagen how is dificolt lets say make reply of steven device <t.p.u> whit out eny real shematic :)
   
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M CD,

You should find a document link in the earliest part of this thread. It seems to be quite complete and includes schematics and wiring.

Of course, you are correct. Even an exact replication mat not provide the same results.

We try anyway - don't we  O0
   
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yes you have raid to say we all time traed to make for me im traing about 6 years whit stefan forum.and ather helping forums .

my thing and words has to point that is very hard to reply i knowing about sheme if lets say annd some one in athere view  see this and he whill tell to athere <look man see this people how is stupid they cant even make  devices whit sheme <what kind of experimentators ,hobitst and prof is here in to this forums  <this is real.ists >

 for some one else we are children who dont knowing nothing  <sory but and im here > is sad for me one man has to me for this stuff >.  you are playng games like children and dont knowing how to bylding sheme <funy .......................................................................
   
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WW,  thanks for the document, I had it saved somewhere but it's nice to read it again.

Mac, a few people replicated Romerouk's dynamo but to my knowledge nobody has achieved over-unity.

EM
   
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