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Author Topic: The Engine,and then the gas  (Read 22093 times)

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Thanks Brad for all you have done with this series of tests.  They have been very interesting.  You didn't answer my question about where you got the idea for the hot bolt.  I have not seen that before and the results were impressive.

Definitely looking forward to your next tests with the OHV engine.

Take care,
Carroll

The hot bolt was my idea.
It is part of my CIGE (compression ignition gasoline engine).
What i needed was a glow plug that doesn't get hot enough to glow,but hot enough to vapourize the fuel.
The added benefit is that it increases the compression ratio as well.


Brad


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Bloody awesome build and tests Brad. Looking forward to the next build
   

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Good morning Brad.

So you're moving into the " super " Diesel territory eh? Way back, here in the UK some of the larger locomotives were fitted with the English Electric  " Deltic " engine, they ran at 25:1 compression ratio. Workers were warned about the rather nasty carcinogenic exhaust fumes, not to get too close! Perfect for the environment though??

Not that the above is of any real concern to your endeavours, do we have any definitive data on the Autoignition pressure of HHO. I remember watching an unlisted video made by one of OUR members taking the gas to 200 PSI without incident.

Are you going to push a converted Petrol/Gasoline engine to the limit or perhaps use one of the many small Diesel engines now available? I'm wondering if you'll have enough " flywheel " to get you over TDC ?

I'm enjoying the journey Brad, thanks for the ride!!   O0

Cheers Graham.


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Good morning Brad.

So you're moving into the " super " Diesel territory eh? Way back, here in the UK some of the larger locomotives were fitted with the English Electric  " Deltic " engine, they ran at 25:1 compression ratio. Workers were warned about the rather nasty carcinogenic exhaust fumes, not to get too close! Perfect for the environment though??

Not that the above is of any real concern to your endeavours,

Are you going to push a converted Petrol/Gasoline engine to the limit or perhaps use one of the many small Diesel engines now available? I'm wondering if you'll have enough " flywheel " to get you over TDC ?

I'm enjoying the journey Brad, thanks for the ride!!   O0

Cheers Graham.

Well i might have to move to a small diesel engine,as i have already cracked one head,and right through the valve seat--just so i cant weld it  C.C

Quote
do we have any definitive data on the Autoignition pressure of HHO. I remember watching an unlisted video made by one of OUR members taking the gas to 200 PSI without incident.

So here is where the confusion starts,and almost everyone i know falls for it.
Both gasoline/air mix and HHO have no autoignition !pressure!  :o
What they do have is an autoignition !temperature!  O0

The autoignition temperature of gasoline/air mix is about 230*C,so easy enough to reach during a compression stroke.
The autoignition temperature of a stoichiometric mixture 2:1 hydrogen:oxygen(HHO) is around 570*C--not so easy to reach in the compression stroke of an ICE. We would be looking at a compression ratio of around 28:1  C.C

There is simply no reason to go this high,as HHO only requires a measly 20 microjoules to ignite it,and with gasoline/air mix it is 10 times that.


Brad


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Here is a video explaining as to why i am changing motors before continuing on with this HHO experiment.

In short,we simply cannot modify the small side valve motor any more,and we need to get the compression ratio higher,which we simply cannot do with the side valve motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qpvCl0SLo

Brad


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First run of the new engine under load.

We now have a base line for this engine.

After i made the video,i pulled the head off,and machined 2mm off it.
The measured compression ratio is now 13:1  O0

I also added the variable main jet,and tuned the engine under load.
This engine is now more efficient than the previous 2HP side valve motor we were experimenting with  O0

In the next video(which is uploading ATM),we give the HHO cell a test run  O0
Darrell (youtube name Darrell's realm)built this cell,and sent it to me many years ago as a donation  O0 O0 O0 .
Man this cell produces a lot of gas for the P/in.

Anyway,this video first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-AlpUE5rXg


Brad


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Dusted off the cell,and gave her a run on the generator.

Plenty of gas there  O0

I should get the bubbler and dryer done by tomorrow night,and then we can give it a run  O0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBL3dgZPQA


Brad


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Thanks for sharing O0

Cheers
Luc
   

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Reminder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAbuHe9X_cs

"Joe and his followers are unwittingly swept into a world of conspiracy & scientific heresy."  C.C

Another great suppressed invention!  ;D

It's amazing how many great inventions have been suppressed. In fact, all of them. Not a single brilliant invention escaped this massacre, and we are still looking for overunity.
Of course we have no evidence that these inventions worked (their suppression is very effective), and we have no evidence that they have been suppressed (their suppression is really very effective).

Fortunately, there is still a mythology of it, with stories worthy of the Odyssey of Ulysses, now on youtube. We have no evidence that sirens or cyclopses existed, but that was certainly true since some who believe in this story tell us so.

I think that instead of alleging the causes of the lack of free energy every time a pseudo-invention has revealed its limit or failure, it would be more positive for those who want to talk to us about failures to explain why this path has not kept its promises, and where we could go in a more intelligent direction.



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"Joe and his followers are unwittingly swept into a world of conspiracy & scientific heresy."  C.C

Another great suppressed invention!  ;D

It's amazing how many great inventions have been suppressed. In fact, all of them. Not a single brilliant invention escaped this massacre, and we are still looking for overunity.
Of course we have no evidence that these inventions worked (their suppression is very effective), and we have no evidence that they have been suppressed (their suppression is really very effective).

Fortunately, there is still a mythology of it, with stories worthy of the Odyssey of Ulysses, now on youtube. We have no evidence that sirens or cyclopses existed, but that was certainly true since some who believe in this story tell us so.

I think that instead of alleging the causes of the lack of free energy every time a pseudo-invention has revealed its limit or failure, it would be more positive for those who want to talk to us about failures to explain why this path has not kept its promises, and where we could go in a more intelligent direction.
That is why i am doing what i am--sorting out fact from fiction.

So far,it would seem that the gasoline vapour system dose not show the gains claimed. Oddly enough,water mist injection shows a clear increase in efficiency of the ICE.

So one claim dispelled,and one proven correct so far.

Will HHO show an increase in efficiency that is worth the effort ?
Time will tell.

As far as the Joe cell go's,well that video did it no favours. It was like watching something filmed by a hippy community back in the 70's--to much woopy weed i think.


Brad


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So here is where the confusion starts,and almost everyone i know falls for it.
Both gasoline/air mix and HHO have no autoignition !pressure!  :o
What they do have is an autoignition !temperature!  O0

Brad

Hi Brad.

I'm having a little trouble with the above statement. Surely there must be a " pressure " value?

A fixed quantity of gas, air in our case, when rapidly compressed WILL increase its temperature to a point where the fuel carried with it auto ignites.

I spent yesterday, off and on, trying to find a definitive reference but it seems the mathematics are rather complex with many variables to consider. Things like the cylinders ability to remove the heat generated etc.

So, what pressure do we need to achieve a temperature of 570 degrees Celsius? Over to the mathematicians.

Cheers Graham.


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Believing in something false doesn't make it true.
Hi Grum,

I hope Brad doesn't mind if I jump in here.  But I think what he means is that if we keep the temperature down then the pressure can be extremely high and those fuel mixtures will not self ignite.  But as you correctly stated compressing the mixture will normally raise the temperature.

My son recently fixed a supposedly worn out diesel tractor by simply adjusting the valves.  The valve seats and valves had worn to the point the valves were not fully closing causing the compression pressure to be too low to raise the temperature high enough to ignite the diesel fuel.  When he got the valves adjusted properly the pressure went from 195 psi to over 300 psi and the engine then started and ran fine.

Brad seems to have a very clear understanding of what it takes to make an engine run more efficiently and cleaner.  I am really looking forward to his HHO tests.  Then we will know for sure if that is a good avenue to follow.

Thanks again Brad for all your efforts.

Carroll


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Hi Brad.

I'm having a little trouble with the above statement. Surely there must be a " pressure " value?

A fixed quantity of gas, air in our case, when rapidly compressed WILL increase its temperature to a point where the fuel carried with it auto ignites.

I spent yesterday, off and on, trying to find a definitive reference but it seems the mathematics are rather complex with many variables to consider. Things like the cylinders ability to remove the heat generated etc.

 Over to the mathematicians.

Cheers Graham.

Ok,i will try and explain a little better.

As stated,it is the temperature that auto ignites the air/fuel mix-not the pressure
This temperature is created by compressing gas at speed. If we compress the gas slowly,so as no heat is generated(dissipated as fast as it builds),then you can compress all you like,and the gas will not ignite.

Quote
So, what pressure do we need to achieve a temperature of 570 degrees Celsius?

There is no clear answer to this question,as there are to many variables that need to be considered.
1-how fast will the gas be compressed ?
2-what is the compression ratio?
3-Is the engine cold or hot-what is it's running temperature?.

The 3rd question might sound silly,but ask your self-->why do we need more fuel to start an engine when it's cold?,even though the compression ratio remains the same as that when it's hot.

An example is-if we have an engine with a compression ratio of say 10:1,and we spin that engine at say 1000rpm,then the temperature of the compressed gas may reach  say 180*C at 6*BTDC. If we spin that engine at 2000rpm,then the temperature of the compressed gas may reach 200*C at 6*BTDC. This is the reason that compression ignition gasoline engines are so very hard to control. You might get it to run right at say 1500rpm,and then trouble starts at 2000rpm,as the gas heats up to auto ignition temperature well before it did at 1500rpm,and so you get engine knock. This is where my design come into play. As the RPM increases,the compression ratio decreases,which keeps the gas temperature a constant in relation to piston position within the bore.
As with other auto ignition engines,the ignition point advances with RPM--which you do not want. With my system,the ignition point remains the same throughout the rev range.

Then there are a whole lot of other things to look at,where the measured compression ratio is not the be all-end all. We then need to know the effective compression ratio. This takes into account valve overlap,valve timing etc.


It is extremely hard to control a true compression ignition gasoline engine,and so it's just easier to use a spark plug. Even Mazda's new skyactiv X engine has spark plugs to ignite the fuel,but they call it a compression ignition engine. They cheated a little,and stretched the term !compression ignition! to fit there claim. But in reality,it is not a true compression ignition gasoline engine.

Sometimes i wonder just what kind of !engineers! these companies employ.
These guys have millions of dollars at there disposal,and this is the best they can come up with.
I have a few bucks and a scrap pile,and i can achieve what they cannot.
The sad thing is,my design will probably never see the light of day.

Anyway,for now lets answer the old HHO question  O0
I've been at this for 9 days and nights straight,so im taking tonight off to kick back and relax.


Brad

With pure HHO,we could raise the compression ratio to 25:1,and still need to ignite it with a spark plug.


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This is how mazda's !claimed compression ignition engine works.
Still has spark plugs  C.C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNSxow3W7ek&t=467s


Brad


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Thank you Brad.  :)

As you also stated " there are too many variables " this was the situation that I found yesterday.

I'll leave it at that.


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Thank you Brad.  :)

As you also stated " there are too many variables " this was the situation that I found yesterday.

I'll leave it at that.

All those variables can be negated with one simple mechanism,which can be fitted to any ICE without much trouble  O0. Once fitted,you can then run your gasoline engine without a spark plug--a true compression ignition gasoline engine. O0

Brad


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The two things which caught my attention with the film which I agree was made to ridicule are "phase conjugate", and the fact that Meyer was claimed to be more advanced than we thought. Also  remember Dave Lawton's discovery of "conditioning" of "water caps" when he replicated Stanley Meyer.
Re  "Phase conjugate" mirror  was a discovery by Gabriel Kron in resonant circuits and network analysis - specifically relating to large numbers of connected rlc circuits in resonance. Bearden speculates that the physical reason for the effect is the use of the Heavyside component in the circuits.

The sad fact is that almost all physics books are wrong about Kirchhoff's loop law. This includes electrical engineering books at phd level.
So we get comments by learned individuals who have never done any experiments and they mislead everyone else. Faraday's equations should be used instead.
The fact is that Kirchhoff's law is ony relevant in exceptional circuits where there is no inductor present. They ignore Faraday's "action at a distance". I  am going to enjoy destroying their egos.
They will discover that they were as wrong as those physicists who taught that the earth is flat.


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Well Brad....

That'll be interesting for sure!

The many variables could be reduced by also thinking on the lines of a fixed speed and fixed load condition rather than for automotive purposes.

Cheers Graham.


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Well Brad....

That'll be interesting for sure!

The many variables could be reduced by also thinking on the lines of a fixed speed and fixed load condition rather than for automotive purposes.

Cheers Graham.

When it comes to HHO and Faradays limit,i wonder if that holds true when the HHO is compressed and heated and then ignited,such as it is in an ICE ?.


Brad


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Another fuel that works exceptionally well in the
gasoline engine is Alcohol.  Particularly in the high
compression engines such as you've achieved with
your air-cooled OHV single cylinder.

Race cars us pure Methanol or Ethanol by rule and
I don't believe water injection is permitted, again by
rule.

I know from my own experience that ordinary Rubbing
Alcohol (70% Isopropyl Alcohol and 30% Water) will
run a small engine as will high strength Alcohol (90+%.)

The advantage of using Rubbing Alcohol or equivalent
mixture with Ethanol is the the water injection is "built
in" since water and alcohol are miscible in all proportions.

TinMan, have you thought about expanding your comparisons
to Alcohol + Water in various proportions?  I did some testing
quite a few years ago with a lawn mower engine with such
mixtures when I had my setup and equipment available and
accessible.  I found that even 50% Alcohol will run and engine
but I wasn't able at the time to make extensive comparisons.

I'd love to do it all again as I still have the engine, but unfortunately,
I'm in a temporary situation where I'm not able to do anything
at the moment due to family emergency lodging.  Perhaps in
a year more I'll be able to resume.

Again, many thanks for what you're doing presently.  Great videos
with great explanations and Solid Science!   


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Another fuel that works exceptionally well in the
gasoline engine is Alcohol.  Particularly in the high
compression engines such as you've achieved with
your air-cooled OHV single cylinder.

Race cars us pure Methanol or Ethanol by rule and
I don't believe water injection is permitted, again by
rule.

I know from my own experience that ordinary Rubbing
Alcohol (70% Isopropyl Alcohol and 30% Water) will
run a small engine as will high strength Alcohol (90+%.)

The advantage of using Rubbing Alcohol or equivalent
mixture with Ethanol is the the water injection is "built
in" since water and alcohol are miscible in all proportions.

TinMan, have you thought about expanding your comparisons
to Alcohol + Water in various proportions?  I did some testing
quite a few years ago with a lawn mower engine with such
mixtures when I had my setup and equipment available and
accessible.  I found that even 50% Alcohol will run and engine
but I wasn't able at the time to make extensive comparisons.

I'd love to do it all again as I still have the engine, but unfortunately,
I'm in a temporary situation where I'm not able to do anything
at the moment due to family emergency lodging.  Perhaps in
a year more I'll be able to resume.

Again, many thanks for what you're doing presently.  Great videos
with great explanations and Solid Science!

I can give that a try muDped O0
30% water-70% rubbing alcohol coming up tonight.


Brad


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It reminds me of that 1974 water engine story (google translation). The underlying miracle of this engine would have been the cracking of the water molecule.

It turned out that my chemistry teacher had participated in the expertise, and had summarized it for us in class:
- "the engine runs on alcohol, not water"
- "the more water is put in, the less effective it is, until it stops, but the inventor nevertheless hopes to succeed in completely eliminating alcohol"

We see in this article that there were already conspiracy theories at the time: "He [the inventor] was completely denigrated" (probably because my chemistry teacher was saying the facts rather than the inventor's illusions). And there were also promises that were never kept: "According to the daily newspaper Le Havre Libre of August 20, 1979, "the Brazilian car industry will produce from next year, 300,000 vehicles consuming alcohol mixed with water ".  ;D
It's like the overunity announcements: "free lunch", but only tomorrow.

Alcohol has a low energy density compared to petrol, mixed with water it's even worse, it doesn't act as a catalyst, so without new element I don't see much point in turning around the bad ideas of the past.




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It reminds me of that 1974 water engine story (google translation). The underlying miracle of this engine would have been the cracking of the water molecule.

It turned out that my chemistry teacher had participated in the expertise, and had summarized it for us in class:
- "the engine runs on alcohol, not water"
- "the more water is put in, the less effective it is, until it stops, but the inventor nevertheless hopes to succeed in completely eliminating alcohol"

We see in this article that there were already conspiracy theories at the time: "He [the inventor] was completely denigrated" (probably because my chemistry teacher was saying the facts rather than the inventor's illusions). And there were also promises that were never kept: "According to the daily newspaper Le Havre Libre of August 20, 1979, "the Brazilian car industry will produce from next year, 300,000 vehicles consuming alcohol mixed with water ".  ;D
It's like the overunity announcements: "free lunch", but only tomorrow.

Alcohol has a low energy density compared to petrol, mixed with water it's even worse, it doesn't act as a catalyst, so without new element I don't see much point in turning around the bad ideas of the past.

I had to give it a try F6FLT,as the setup was all there ready to go.

As it turned out muDped,it's exactly as F6FLT states.
At just 10% water,i had to have the choke half on to keep it running while the generator was loaded.
This decreased the run time for the 100ml of fuel by nearly half of that of using gasoline.
At 15% water,i could not keep it running without full choke,and that was only just.

Adding water to the combustion gasses like this did not yield any positive result's-only negative ones.

Test done,and results had  O0


Brad


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Water plus fuel and Lithium soap ?
   
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