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Author Topic: Itsu's workbench / placeholder.  (Read 17899 times)

Group: Professor
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green is the current, using my current probe, throught L2,
What is that HF burst on the falling edge, before the negative peak, in the 2nd time division?  Do your sims show it, too?

yellow is the voltage across a 1 Ohm 1% induction free csr in the L3 to bridge lead.
Doesn't that current go slightly negative in the 3rd time division?  The green one does not do that...
   

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What is that HF burst on the falling edge, before the negative peak, in the 2nd time division?  Do your sims show it, too?
Doesn't that current go slightly negative in the 3rd time division?  The green one does not do that...

no, the sim does not show the HF burst, but the sim has more things that don't mach, its over the whole much more cleaner in signals, see screenshot.

Hmmm,  the yellow current in he 3th division is more straight (following the zero line), the green current goes below its zero line there (negative).

     
   
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Buy me a drink
Hi Nelson,

doing well,   thanks.

This circuit "acts" more like a step up boost converter to me giving it steps up the 24V input voltage to 450V (my replication).

How this one works exactly hopefully can be explained by others, but in general, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_converter.

Regards Itsu


Hi Itsu ,
I’m not totally full agree with you about the circuit acting like step up boost converter, only .. :)

In some of the measurements you already did , we see an increase in current output vs input , but i understand your logic to consider the circuit like a booster , because when output is unload , show a much higher voltage then the input (450v) , but it is true when you connect a low impedance load at output the current increase and voltage lower. Buck or boost converter ? :)
At 24V on the input , the C4 and C5 capacitor have a variation , with a high peak of current and voltage , and that should the reason to be induced in L2/L3 CMC  the high voltage in output , even being wired in a 1:1 ratio .
The configuration of L2/L3 not allow a step up or step down like a conventional transformer.
Well , I think we have some aspects yet to understand .

Many thanks Itsu



---------------------------
Best Rewards
Nelson Rocha

" The goal is not to be successful, the goal is to be valuable.
Once you’re valuable, instead of chasing success,
it will attract itself to you. "
   
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Posts: 108


Buy me a drink
Hi Nelson,

doing well,   thanks.

This circuit "acts" more like a step up boost converter to me giving it steps up the 24V input voltage to 450V (my replication).

How this one works exactly hopefully can be explained by others, but in general, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_converter.

Regards Itsu



Hi Verpies ,

I will you answer later based in the updates brought by Itsu.
Many thanks




---------------------------
Best Rewards
Nelson Rocha

" The goal is not to be successful, the goal is to be valuable.
Once you’re valuable, instead of chasing success,
it will attract itself to you. "
   

Group: Moderator
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Posts: 2089

Hi Itsu ,
I’m not totally full agree with you about the circuit acting like step up boost converter, only .. :)

In some of the measurements you already did , we see an increase in current output vs input , but i understand your logic to consider the circuit like a booster , because when output is unload , show a much higher voltage then the input (450v) , but it is true when you connect a low impedance load at output the current increase and voltage lower. Buck or boost converter ? :)
At 24V on the input , the C4 and C5 capacitor have a variation , with a high peak of current and voltage , and that should the reason to be induced in L2/L3 CMC  the high voltage in output , even being wired in a 1:1 ratio .
The configuration of L2/L3 not allow a step up or step down like a conventional transformer.
Well , I think we have some aspects yet to understand .

Many thanks Itsu

Nelson,

voltage boost or buck, current boost or buck, it indeed depends how you look at it.
Below graps show the relation between input versus ouput voltage and input versus ouput current.

The values do cross, but in the end what matters is the Power in versus out, which do no cross.

regards Itsu
   

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I will you answer later based in the updates brought by Itsu.
I really would rather lurk now
   

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Here a zoomed in (1 cycle) screenshot of the currents through T1 (L2 green and L3 yellow).
Yellow (L3) NOT inverted now.

The HF bursts are 2.2MHz.

Itsu 
   
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Nelson,

voltage boost or buck, current boost or buck, it indeed depends how you look at it.
Below graps show the relation between input versus ouput voltage and input versus ouput current.

The values do cross, but in the end what matters is the Power in versus out, which do no cross.

regards Itsu

Hi Itsu ,
I understand your point of view when you say that what matters is the Power in vs out .
Thanks by your opinion.



---------------------------
Best Rewards
Nelson Rocha

" The goal is not to be successful, the goal is to be valuable.
Once you’re valuable, instead of chasing success,
it will attract itself to you. "
   
Full Member
***

Posts: 108


Buy me a drink
I really would rather lurk now

Hi Verpies ,

I just told you that i would answer later, because of your question, regarding if inducing and induced currents flow through SMC at the same time, and I only saw Itsu's reply later, confirming this point, with their scope shots .

But thanks anyway.




---------------------------
Best Rewards
Nelson Rocha

" The goal is not to be successful, the goal is to be valuable.
Once you’re valuable, instead of chasing success,
it will attract itself to you. "
   
Group: Experimentalist
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Itsu,

I see you are using your new MDO3034 scope! How do you like it?

Regards,
Pm
   

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The HF bursts are 2.2MHz.
Could the step recovery of a diode be responsible for this?
   

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Posts: 2089
Itsu,

I see you are using your new MDO3034 scope! How do you like it?

Regards,
Pm

Hi Partzman,   well noticed,   yes,  using the MDO3054 now mostly, its a very nice piece of equipment.

I like the pushbuttons to quickly center the signals and all the build in / on board goodies like the pre settings for my AM503B / A6302 current probe (deskew).

Still working my way around all the settings, but really love it.

Itsu
   

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Could the step recovery of a diode be responsible for this?

verpies,

i would have thought that those modern UF4007 (2) would have a small distinct PN junction which would not allow or minimize these sharp pulses caused by it.

Perhaps i can swap them for some KD206D diodes which are known for their fuzzy PN junction and see if those HF pulses increase.

Itsu   
   

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Hi Nelson,

what are your feelings about your circuit?
Do you feel we did enough to analyze it, or do you think there needs to be done more to understand it?

Unfortunately i can not further help you in understanding how it does what it does.
I have tried to give as much details on the tests i did on my replication and gave the results as clear as i could in data and graphs.
   
If there is anything you can come up with which we can test, please tell me so i can give it a try.


Do you have any other intriging circuits you want to share with us so we can replicate and test it?

My favourite to replicate would be your "amazing oscilator" which i still have the video of, the one you start with a piezo lighter and carry around through your house.

Take care,   regards   Itsu
   
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Posts: 108


Buy me a drink
Hi Nelson,

what are your feelings about your circuit?
Do you feel we did enough to analyze it, or do you think there needs to be done more to understand it?

Unfortunately i can not further help you in understanding how it does what it does.
I have tried to give as much details on the tests i did on my replication and gave the results as clear as i could in data and graphs.
   
If there is anything you can come up with which we can test, please tell me so i can give it a try.


Do you have any other intriging circuits you want to share with us so we can replicate and test it?

My favourite to replicate would be your "amazing oscilator" which i still have the video of, the one you start with a piezo lighter and carry around through your house.

Take care,   regards   Itsu

Hi Itsu,

At this moment, despite all the tests that have been conducted, it is not completely clear to me about some points that were observed, however I get the impression, that this feeling is partly reciprocal, at least I got this idea.

As you mentioned that you can't help anymore understanding how it does what it does, I am still very grateful for your collaboration and by Gyula, sincerely , but I will continue to try to understand some less clear points for me, such as the negative variations of voltage and current verified, as well  another aspect regarding the fact that the transformer is 1:1 and exhibits a deviated behavior, of the Mutual induction process, exhibited by a common transformer.

About "amazing oscillator" I sold the rights off this small circuit, a few years ago to a South Korean company, which earned me a small sum of money that today I would not have sold, at least for the amount I sold at that time.
I have no way of knowing, accurate information, and circuit details since I was hacked,  most of the information in my netbook like circuits videos , thoughts and diagrams  was stolen and deleted, even on social channels like youtube.

Could you provide me with that same video to integrate into my library?
I would be very grateful for that.
I have been trying to recover some of the videos I missed, because, in some way, they are a "consolation" for all the real circuits that were "confiscated" from me.
I'm starting a new topic on the OU related to one of my old circuits with pancake coils, I would be delighted, that whenever you wanted to give your opinion or even participate when you have time and availability .
once again, thank you very much for your help and participation in this circuit, as well as Gyula's help.



---------------------------
Best Rewards
Nelson Rocha

" The goal is not to be successful, the goal is to be valuable.
Once you’re valuable, instead of chasing success,
it will attract itself to you. "
   

Group: Moderator
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Posts: 2089

Nelson,

i also am unclear about what i see at certain points in this circuit, but i lack the knowledge to explain them, so yes that feeling you have is reciprocal.


Concerning the "amazing oscillator",   thanks for the info.

I can send you that video, no problem, just give a valid Email address using mine (see my profile here).
Hopefully the 14.4MB is not to much to send via Email.


I will be following your new topic and participate if possible.

Regards Itsu
   
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Posts: 108


Buy me a drink
Nelson,

i also am unclear about what i see at certain points in this circuit, but i lack the knowledge to explain them, so yes that feeling you have is reciprocal.


Concerning the "amazing oscillator",   thanks for the info.

I can send you that video, no problem, just give a valid Email address using mine (see my profile here).
Hopefully the 14.4MB is not to much to send via Email.


I will be following your new topic and participate if possible.

Regards Itsu

Hi Itsu,
As I told you earlier, I am grateful for everything you have done.
I just want to leave this video to understand what I was referring to a few posts ago about apparent feedback for the power supply.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZMpr9ngb8wTNRpya8
I will send you my email, if it is not possible I will try to find an alternative, like sharing a space on Gdrive where you can place the video.



---------------------------
Best Rewards
Nelson Rocha

" The goal is not to be successful, the goal is to be valuable.
Once you’re valuable, instead of chasing success,
it will attract itself to you. "
   

Group: Moderator
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Posts: 2089

Hi Nelson,

i managed to send out the video via my Email, so you should have it by now.


Concerning your new above video, it made me smile as i wonder how on earth you come up with such things to try.  :)

You must have a very curious mind to try out all these things.  O0

I can try to replicate, and probably will get similar results, but to explain them in details i can not.

But generally i think it will boil down to the fact that you have an oscillator / transmitter that will send out a strong 17KHz signal which will influence all surrounded wirings and even goes into your PSU.

That PSU seems to be a dual PS one which probably internally is hooked up to each other so you can put the outputs in series or parallel etc.
With other words, the 17KHz RF will penetrate it and influences the internals to give (false) readings.

Also the output led bulb will light due to these 17Khz RF signals i am sure.

You might want to filter more strongly your primary power source by a CMC and some caps (electrolytic and ceramics) to see if these internal interactions go away.

I will do some replications and see if my dual PSU shows the same.


Regards Itsu
   
Group: Tech Wizard
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Hi Nelson,

I agree with Itsu.  The AC output of the oscillator goes back to the PSU when you connect the LED or the wire back to the positive supply input.  Even if the L2/L3 coils as a 1:1 transformer isolates the output from the input, their stray inductance-capacitance may let some energy through.

You could check this by your oscilloscope which fortunately can operate from its battery i.e. ground independent.  Connect the scope probe croco gnd clip to the negative input supply rail and the tip of the probe to the positive input supply rail and see whether any 17 kHz or so AC signal appears or not across the rails when you loop back the AC output to the positive rail. 
Most likely you will see the AC component appearing across the rails.  When you connected the AC output behind the series input diode and you still had the "problem",  it is possible the diode remained forward biased from the supply input (i.e. the AC component had not enough current to influence its forward conduction).

One more thing:  what if you reduce the 0.3 V DC setting on your PSU's 2nd output to zero? will the near 1 A "load" current also manifest?

Gyula
   
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