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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #1 on: 2023-05-24, 10:00:04 »
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Hi Nick,
looking good, thanks for opening this thread.
Hopefully the Admin can fix the problem that this thread is not visible when not logged in or for non-members.
Anyway, i just was setting up my Grenade/Inductor/Antenna on new 3D printed stands to start making some measurements on the different parts of the Ruslan setup starting with this Grenade:
F.I. i want to figure out if there can be standing waves present in this Grenade/inductor and under what conditions.
Regards Itsu
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Grenade on stand small.png
* Grenade on stand small.png (1041.99 kB, 1008x756 - viewed 485 times.)
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #2 on: 2023-05-24, 13:17:00 »
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Nice Grenade you have here Itsu.
Minimum inductance. Inductance cancellation, but you can't get zero: clockwise and counterclockwise.
Regards
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #3 on: 2023-05-24, 15:26:01 »
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Itsu:
Wow, what a great looking grenade, as well as your 3D printed stand.
You seam to have to most accurate replication that I've seen yet. And hopefully with your help, we can crack this nut.
My thoughts on this is that we are close, and that it's probably only a tuning issue to resolve.
So, we should not throw our baby out, with the bath water.
Max: Thank for your comments, and ideas.
NickZ
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #4 on: 2023-05-24, 16:55:57 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-24, 15:26:01
Itsu:
Wow, what a great looking grenade, as well as your 3D printed stand.
You seam to have to most accurate replication that I've seen yet. And hopefully with your help, we can crack this nut.
My thoughts on this is that we are close, and that it's probably only a tuning issue to resolve.
So, we should not throw our baby out, with the bath water.
Max: Thank for your comments, and ideas.
NickZ
Nice you have your tread now Nickz.
We wish to see better things happening.
Maxolous
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #5 on: 2023-05-24, 19:55:59 »
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Thanks Max, Nick,
that Grenade i build 2 years ago with the help of Vasik and his translations.
I don't think it was designed to be "inductance cancellation" as we still have more turns counterclockwise than clockwise (or the other way around) and for what reason do we need an inductionless coil?
We might then use only a capacitor as that is what is left.
Anyway, i will do some measurements with my nanoVNA to see how the inductance varies over a frequency range and at what frequency it flips over (the zero inductance point) from an inductance to capacitance (if doing so).
Let's see what we can come up with.
Itsu
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #6 on: 2023-05-25, 14:24:37 »
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Sounds good itsu, and I hope that Vasik and any of the other guys interested will also join in, and build some devices. As there are no better self running devices around, as yet.
Since we don't really know what it takes to get these devices to self run, it's best to build true replications, of which there are really only just a very few.
I understand from Vasik, I think it was, that Stalker built up 25 grenades, to finally get one that worked.
Max: Did you figure out why your unit is flipping the over amp protection circuit. Does your mosfet get real hot. It may be that you have too much current going in.
I use a couple of chokes at the input, as well as some filter caps, as per the Ruslan, or Stalker's schematic. This diagram below, was for the induction circuit that I replicated.
NickZ
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Do you mean this(2).png
* Do you mean this(2).png (139.35 kB, 688x340 - viewed 380 times.)
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #7 on: 2023-05-25, 16:58:17 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-25, 14:24:37
Since we don't really know what it takes to get these devices to self run, it's best to build true replications, of which there are really only just a very few.
We don't really know the physics behind the overunity effect, e.g. from what source is the extra energy coming from and what mechanism does it take to get this effect realized.
If there where a simple setup just demonstrating this, it would be obvious how to build kilowatts devices. But there are almost as much theories about the device operation as there are devices variations on the internet to find.
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #8 on: 2023-05-25, 18:09:44 »
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Buy me a beer
Quote from: Itsu on 2023-05-24, 19:55:59
Thanks Max, Nick,
that Grenade i build 2 years ago with the help of Vasik and his translations.
I don't think it was designed to be "inductance cancellation" as we still have more turns counterclockwise than clockwise (or the other way around) and for what reason do we need an inductionless coil?
We might then use only a capacitor as that is what is left.
Anyway, i will do some measurements with my nanoVNA to see how the inductance varies over a frequency range and at what frequency it flips over (the zero inductance point) from an inductance to capacitance (if doing so).
Let's see what we can come up with.
Itsu
It probably is a multi-wave LC delay line or in the sound industry a vibrator/echo chamber.
As I do not know how it is wound (a diagram would be good), that is a guess.
See attached which is multi-phase if the inductances are different on each side.
Regards
Mike
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Multiple pulse delay line.png
* Multiple pulse delay line.png (10.6 kB, 1495x1060 - viewed 327 times.)
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #9 on: 2023-05-25, 19:53:05 »
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I posted the wrong tread, need to get used to this site.
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #10 on: 2023-05-25, 20:01:41 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-05-24, 10:00:04
H
F.I. i want to figure out if there can be standing waves present in this Grenade/inductor and under what conditions.
Regards Itsu
Hi Itsu,
I did a lot of work on grenade research together with Lostbro years ago.
Our goal was to create a grenade 37.5m which also has its resonance frequency at 2Mhz.
The wirelength of 37.5m would give a oppertunity to create a 1/4 standingwave at 2Mhz which means it has double resonance.
Vew months ago I succeeded in realizing this 2Mhz resonance goal.
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #11 on: 2023-05-25, 21:11:20 »
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Quote from: Centraflow on 2023-05-25, 18:09:44
It probably is a multi-wave LC delay line or in the sound industry a vibrator/echo chamber.
As I do not know how it is wound (a diagram would be good), that is a guess.
See attached which is multi-phase if the inductances are different on each side.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
thanks for your insights, my Grenade coil is wound as mentioned here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91333#msg91333Itsu
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #12 on: 2023-05-25, 21:33:39 »
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Quote from: Apecore on 2023-05-25, 20:01:41
Hi Itsu,
I did a lot of work on grenade research together with Lostbro years ago.
Our goal was to create a grenade 37.5m which also has its resonance frequency at 2Mhz.
The wirelength of 37.5m would give a oppertunity to create a 1/4 standingwave at 2Mhz which means it has double resonance.
Vew months ago I succeeded in realizing this 2Mhz resonance goal.
Hi Ape,
good to see you here, i think Nick can now remove your wrong post in the other thread
I used my nanoVNA to measure the Grenade especially the inductance (upper graph) and the impedance (lower graph) over a 10kHz to 20Mhz range.
But i first made the same measurement using a 47uH choke for comparing:
The result of this 47uH choke is this:
So we see a slowly increasing impedance (lower graph of the 2) till resonance at 10Mhz.
Then i used my Grenade:
The result of my Grenade looks like this:
So we see a starting inductance of around 160uH at 15kHz (upper graph of the 2) till a resonance at just under 2mHz
So my Grenade (inclusive Inductor and Antenna) has similar parameters as yours (2Mhz resonance).
Itsu
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Grenade on stand smaller.png
* Grenade on stand smaller.png (315.68 kB, 504x378 - viewed 360 times.)
47uH choke smallest.png
* 47uH choke smallest.png (145.69 kB, 596x253 - viewed 362 times.)
47uH 20mHz sweep nanoVNA 70.png
* 47uH 20mHz sweep nanoVNA 70.png (385.23 kB, 1350x734 - viewed 352 times.)
Grenade 20mHz sweep nanoVNA 70.png
* Grenade 20mHz sweep nanoVNA 70.png (392.94 kB, 1350x734 - viewed 354 times.)
« Last Edit: 2023-05-26, 09:06:04 by Itsu »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #13 on: 2023-05-26, 07:04:50 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-25, 14:24:37
Max: Did you figure out why your unit is flipping the over amp protection circuit. Does your mosfet get real hot. It may be that you have too much current going in.
I use a couple of chokes at the input, as well as some filter caps, as per the Ruslan, or Stalker's schematic. This diagram below, was for the induction circuit that I replicated.
NickZ
Hi Nickz,
Am still working on it. I think it's the back emf effect and I have used snubber circuit to reduce that ,. But it's not enough. I really want to get the voltage feeding my Tesla controlled circuit up to 130vdc and above because that is where the effect is in most cases. At that stage you see it shaking violently on scope.
As for weather my transistor is hot the answer is no.
Maxolous
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #14 on: 2023-05-26, 09:41:44 »
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Hi Max,
when you say "At that stage (>130V input) you see it shaking violently on scope" what do you mean with "it"?
Is it not the intense HV HF from the kacher influencing your scope?
I remember several times with a strong kacher my scopes go crazy.
Itsu
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #15 on: 2023-05-26, 14:13:09 »
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apecore:
Good to see you here, and that you are posting again, and hopefully building and testing also.
I followed you on the OU.com thread, but, you quit posting there. So, good to see you here.
I'm also hoping that Geofusion chimes in, "Hello there guys", as well. And any other builders, like Vasik, Tomtech, and of course me as well, as I plan to focus on these devices, and continue on with the tests and trials.
I'll let my other thread on this forum, go out of site. As I can't seam to be able to remove it.
NickZ
PS. Max carefull with those high Kacher voltages, once you have a scope. You may have to NOT use the negative black scope lead, as once you put both leads on the induction circuits, with the Kacher also on, you'll be grounding the positive Kacher pulse to ground, through the scopes negative lead, due to the scope's grid tied ground connection. As well as sending all that voltage to your push pull's delicate circuit. Also at 130v the HV streamer will ground out, anywhere it can. The effect generation has been shown working even as low as 12v.
Ruslan mentioned that you don't need a "strong Kacher". The ideas is NOT to add, but to interrupt the induction circuit's field instead. Of course when adding 130v to the circuit, things will fry, immediately. Just trying to avoid you burning up your scope, and circuits. But, I did notice that your streamer can be barely seen, so, not sure if you have the duty cycle set very low, or why that spark is so small. Anyway, good luck with your set up.
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #16 on: 2023-05-26, 14:13:39 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2023-05-26, 09:41:44
Hi Max,
when you say "At that stage (>130V input) you see it shaking violently on scope" what do you mean with "it"?
Is it not the intense HV HF from the kacher influencing your scope?
I remember several times with a strong kacher my scopes go crazy.
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
By comparison; when you compare the scope shot of this video ;
https://youtu.be/J7du9f-f9t0To the scope shot of this;
https://youtu.be/oC-YP1aDj4Q , you will notice the difference in signal movement. The later could not attain the violent movement of the former because voltage lever is low(maximum 65vdc) and few pulses. Any attempt to increase either of them( voltage or pulse) beyond a certain limit, device will trip off. Whereas, that is the moment of current addition.
Maxolous
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #17 on: 2023-05-26, 14:27:29 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-26, 14:13:09
NickZ
PS. Max carefull with those high Kacher voltages, once you have a scope. You may have to NOT use the negative black scope lead, as once you put both leads on the induction circuits, with the Kacher also on, you'll be grounding the positive Kacher pulse to ground, through the scopes negative lead, due to the scope's grid tied ground connection. As well as sending all that voltage to your push pull's delicate circuit. Also at 130v the HV streamer will ground out, anywhere it can, unless you tone down the duty cycle. And if the Kacher coils aren't tuned to the right self running frequency, the circuits frequency trim pots controller will not really make up for it.
Thanks for the piece of advice.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-26, 14:13:09
Ruslan mentioned that you don't need a "strong Kacher".
He was referring to those blazing Tesla coil build like those called Slayer that could arc up to 20cm and above.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-26, 14:13:09
The ideas is NOT to add, but to interrupt the induction circuit's field instead.
If it doesn't interrupt how will it add.
Maxolous
Max: The kacher signal will do nothing to improve the output of the induction circuit pulse, IF, the kacher signal is not in resonance. And if you don't have a proper earth ground line, also. Your kacher looks too long to provide for the right frequency needed. About 1.5MHz or so. Not like yours which is running at too low a frequency for resonance.
5mm streamers should be long enough, more will cause problems. There should be no violent shaking going on. That is not a good sign.
Please connect some bulbs. To see any real interaction. The load of bulbs needs to be above 300 to 500 watts, so as to not be fooled by the improved output, due to the addition of more voltage and current from the Kacher. A smaller load of bulbs will light up more, but, with no OU, nor able to self run. So, don't be fooled by that.
« Last Edit: 2023-05-26, 15:24:43 by NickZ »
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #18 on: 2023-05-26, 14:42:29 »
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Max, the ideas is not to ADD, anything. The purpose of the Kacher is an interruptor circuit, not meant to ADD. Meant to STOP the induction circuit, instead.
For those that think that what Ruslan said about a simple kacher not able to add anything, because it's AC signal will take away what it gives, should see my video, showing how I can light even a 100w bulb, at the grenade's output, with just my Kacher on.
NickZ
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #19 on: 2023-05-26, 14:50:35 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-26, 14:42:29
Max, the ideas is not to ADD, anything. The purpose of the Kacher is an interruptor circuit, not meant to ADD. Meant to STOP the induction circuit, instead.
For those that think that what Ruslan said about a simple kacher not able to add anything, because it's AC signal will take away what it gives, should see my video, showing how I can light even a 100w bulb, at the grenade's output, with just my Kacher on.
NickZ
Does the whole kacher process subtract?
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #20 on: 2023-05-26, 15:09:37 »
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The idea of the kacher is that it is what Tesla calls an interrupter circuit. Meant to stop the induction circuits pulse, so that voltage as well as current will be increased.
Like my analogy of pinching and quickly releasing the water hose, to see how it increases the force of the water. In our case, the output at the bulbs, and at the feed back circuit.
Much of what Ruslan mentioned, is BS. If it wasn't for Oleg, his circuit builder, he would have nothing to show for it. I do trust what Stalker says, instead. And he has the best videos.
NickZ
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #21 on: 2023-05-26, 15:48:21 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2023-05-26, 15:09:37
The idea of the kacher is that it is what Tesla calls an interrupter circuit. Meant to stop the induction circuits pulse, so that voltage as well as current will be increased.
Like my analogy of pinching and quickly releasing the water hose, to see how it increases the force of the water. In our case, the output at the bulbs, and at the feed back circuit.
Much of what Ruslan mentioned, is BS. If it wasn't for Oleg, his circuit builder, he would have nothing to show for it. I do trust what Stalker says, instead. And he has the best videos.
NickZ
Am glad you said voltage and current will increase, that's increase in power
Maxolous
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #22 on: 2023-05-26, 16:48:26 »
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Max:
Yes, that is the idea. Now, to put it to the test. But, tuning is the toughest part, and not easy to get the all the right frequencies working properly, as they should.
That is why this is all so difficult to do. And if the grenade output is not sufficient, the feed back circuit will not produce hardly any output, and possibly not even light its green Led indicator.
NickZ
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #23 on: 2023-05-26, 16:52:26 »
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Quote from: Maxolous on 2023-05-26, 14:13:39
Hi Itsu,
By comparison; when you compare the scope shot of this video ;
https://youtu.be/J7du9f-f9t0To the scope shot of this;
https://youtu.be/oC-YP1aDj4Q , you will notice the difference in signal movement. The later could not attain the violent movement of the former because voltage lever is low(maximum 65vdc) and few pulses. Any attempt to increase either of them( voltage or pulse) beyond a certain limit, device will trip off. Whereas, that is the moment of current addition.
Maxolous
Max,
so looking at both screenshots:
I see 1st screenshot the (yellow) kacher ringing down completely, but it seems the kacher signal is not there all the time it seems to skip 1 or 2 pulses compared to the blue square wave, making it look like a violent type of signal.
But you trigger on the blue signal using a video type triggering and the blue and yellow signals are very low amplitude (500mV/div. only).
Also, the blue signal frequency is 46kHz but as said with very low (too low?) amplitude.
The kacher signal seems to be synced to the start of the blue rising pulse.
In the 2nd screenshot i see the yellow kacher signal more as unidirectional pulses at 5V/div and also the blue square wave is now 5V/div, but at a lower frequency of 25kHz.
You now trigger on the blue signal rising edge, with the yellow kacher signal synced to almost half of the blue signal pulse.
So what i am trying to say is that both screenshots show very different circumstances and settings and without any information on where these signals are taken from (diagram), it is very difficult to diagnose any problems.
This and the almost impossibility to hear anything you are saying makes it virtually impossible to help you i am afraid.
Could you more specifically tell what you mean with "device will trip off", what will trip? Do you have an automatic fuse tripping?
Itsu
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Max 1st screenshot.png
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Max 2nd screenshot.png
* Max 2nd screenshot.png (322.94 kB, 576x432 - viewed 465 times.)
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Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #24 on: 2023-05-26, 17:43:49 »
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Another point that I want to mention, is that the Kacher signal pulse may need to be ideally placed at the Off time of the push pull signal pulse, instead of on the ON time. As there is less resistance at the OFF times. But, of this I'm not certain, as I have not tried it. But, I think that itsu did try that and did not get much better result, or output while testing. However, I still think that it's worth a try.
Below is an image from Stalker's video, although it may not be his scope shot. The idea is what counts. And will also need testing. Remember that if there is no ground line, nor resonance, then don't expect that magically the placement of the Kacher signal will make any difference.
The earth ground line, at about the same size as the grenade output coil, or 1/2 size made of welding cable, and Kacher to induction circuit resonances, are prerequisites, to seeing any effects, at all. Sometimes I can go for days without the slightest effect of what I call the Radio Moscow, sound, nor any other signs of resonance, or improvements. That hissing sound does indicate some form of resonance. In my opinion. Along with the ability to light several 100w bulbs brightly. Not just barely...
NickZ
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Stalker's scope shot.jpg
* Stalker's scope shot.jpg (374.56 kB, 1200x675 - viewed 27 times.)
Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
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