Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector

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Author Topic: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector (Read 322689 times)

TinMan	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #125 on: 2014-11-28, 14:52:07 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-11-27, 20:59:10 This is definitely going to get some more of my attention. Starting with this image: ------------------------ Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector Rotagen.JPG (90.13 kB, 778x584 - viewed 1302 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumpy	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #126 on: 2014-11-28, 15:58:07 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3939 tExB=qr	I don't see a mechanism for "gain" in any of this. Not in BEMF elimination, and not in rotors and MOTs.

Centraflow	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #127 on: 2014-11-28, 16:19:10 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2811	I think the word "eliminator" should be removed, it is never eliminated, but you can manipulate it with fast switching silicon iron. I have been doing tests on this for the last few days, we know it's switching capabilities due to transformers, but to stick two neo 42's same pole together with only a thin silicon iron laminate between them is quite impressive, also moving a magnet across a laminate switches on and off at the same speed you can move it, this is why Jim is finding that he generates higher voltages between the magnets and not in front of them. regards Mike PS. I'm not really a motor man, but this is fascinating me at the moment. --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

T-1000	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #128 on: 2014-11-28, 17:12:02 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	The BEMF appears from collapsing magnetic field and if you support it with opposite magnetic polarity(with regards to magnetic field increase stage) from another magnet the interesting effects can be find out in simple experiment.. The coil in this case is perfect magnetic switch for switching magnetic field between increasing stage (EMF) and collapsing/reversal stage (BEMF). With proper design that can be exploited and the electricity from coil becomes as bio-product (which is what we are looking for use!) for managing the reactive magnetic field strength on both stages in our advantage when creating motive force on rotor.

Grumpy	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #129 on: 2014-11-28, 17:35:27 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3939 tExB=qr	Quote from: T-1000 on 2014-11-28, 17:12:02 The BEMF appears from collapsing magnetic field and if you support it with opposite magnetic polarity(with regards to magnetic field increase stage) from another magnet the interesting effects can be find out in simple experiment.. The coil in this case is perfect magnetic switch for switching magnetic field between increasing stage (EMF) and collapsing/reversal stage (BEMF). With proper design that can be exploited and the electricity from coil becomes as bio-product (which is what we are looking for use!) for managing the reactive magnetic field strength on both stages in our advantage when creating motive force on rotor. I'm not sure, but it sounds like you are trying to combine a magnetic field, with the BEMF of another magnetic field.

T-1000	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #130 on: 2014-11-28, 18:10:59 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-11-28, 17:35:27 I'm not sure, but it sounds like you are trying to combine a magnetic field, with the BEMF of another magnetic field. For better understanding please see "conventional coil" part in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5osYN5f35Bc Just on phase two instead of moving magnet away we flip magnetic poles of magnet then we make phase 1 again to match same reversed coil polarity... The single difference on second phase 1 is - now we are moving iron bar away from coil while reversed magnetic flux is increasing in coil. Cheers! « Last Edit: 2014-11-28, 18:42:13 by T-1000 »

Grumpy	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #131 on: 2014-11-28, 19:04:53 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3939 tExB=qr	Once I see the name "Thane Hiens" the bullshit meter starts blaring. I think he is misinterpreting Lenz's Law as well. You get a better result by using high voltage to change the magnetic field like Wagner Martin does, and Enegia Celeste also.

T-1000	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #132 on: 2014-11-28, 19:09:09 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-11-28, 19:04:53 Once I see the name "Thane Hiens" the bullshit meter starts blaring. I think he is misinterpreting Lenz's Law as well. You can ignore the rest from 1:55 there, all I needed is basic conventional generator coil magnetic interaction explanation and first video I remembered was this ..

JimBoot	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #133 on: 2014-11-29, 00:38:35 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	Yeah I mistakenly thought it was a real effect once. Then I realised it was just Lenz masking the iron core of my coils.

Matt Watts	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #134 on: 2014-11-29, 01:00:01 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-11-28, 15:58:07 I don't see a mechanism for "gain" in any of this. Not in BEMF elimination, and not in rotors and MOTs. Quote from: Centraflow on 2014-11-28, 16:19:10 I think the word "eliminator" should be removed, it is never eliminated... ... I'm not really a motor man, but this is fascinating me at the moment. I would agree guys. This is a learning experience for me as well. When I opened this topic, I didn't pick the same terminology then as I would today, which is a good thing, as it shows the evolution of our understanding. Back EMF obviously isn't being eliminated, but I would say it is being redirected. With the proper timing and geometry, this Force can be put to use or it can be ignored, made non-applicable to the device. So we do have an avenue for relative gain just by reducing our conventional loses. Ultimately I see two options: 1. Prevent the back EMF from finding its way to the rotary drive source. Or, 2. Direct the back EMF to the rotary drive source but in the opposite direction, so it assists the rotation. Either choice gets us a device that generates electrical output in excess of a conventional generator. Call it gain or simply just an improvement beyond prior art. A concept I find useful for looking at this device is what I call a rotary transformer, where we have eliminated the typical primary winding and replaced it with a moving or in this case a rotating magnetic field. Here we have multiple transformers butted together in a ring surrounding a central alternating magnetic field. Instead of physical windings on the primary core, we instead use magnetic induction. The geometry is such that the alternating field we induce into the primary core never gets reflected back in a way that imposes a force opposite to the rotation. At least that's how I think it works. If someone could send me a pair of those magic flux viewing glasses, I could say for sure.

TinMan	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #135 on: 2014-11-29, 01:43:49 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-11-29, 01:00:01 1. Prevent the back EMF from finding its way to the rotary drive source. Or, 2. Direct the back EMF to the rotary drive source but in the opposite direction, so it assists the rotation. Either choice gets us a device that generates electrical output in excess of a conventional generator. Call it gain or simply just an improvement beyond prior art. A concept I find useful for looking at this device is what I call a rotary transformer, Indeed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szpJ97M58G4 --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumpy	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #136 on: 2014-11-29, 01:46:58 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3939 tExB=qr	Nothing using BEMF can be in excess since you put the BEMF energy into the system in the first place. At most you get back what you put in, minus losses. I recall Tesla patenting something like this to increase efficiency, maybe not.

T-1000	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #137 on: 2014-11-29, 03:48:48 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	The definition of BEMF is from collapsing magnetic field and in this case we replace it with increasing reversed magnetic field polarity. The induction still goes on in coils for positive and negative cycles... When the magnets are energy source all you care about is how to make magnetic flux in coil from magnets to go increase in one polarity then reverse to opposite polarity instead of increase/decrease of its strength in single polarity only and then use it for your advantage in generating net mechanical motive force in spinning rotor due the EMF in coil always having same magnetic polarity to inducing magnets.

JimBoot	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #138 on: 2014-11-29, 12:44:39 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	Yep I agree Matt. It is probablyl still there but is not affecting the rotor as it has a changing field that the rotor temporarily inherits but does not carry. It discharges it as I think carman was saying and moves on. Possibly the extra lines of field from the bemf cuts through multiplies the charge picked up by the coil as the rotor is inheriting or assuming the field it enters it is not fighting against it like a mag or a coil would do. That my observations anyway

Paul-R	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #139 on: 2014-11-29, 15:56:37 »
Hero Member Posts: 1578	Quote from: T-1000 on 2014-11-29, 03:48:48 The definition of BEMF is from collapsing magnetic field I have heard reference to CEMF. Do you know what that is? .

Matt Watts	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #140 on: 2014-11-29, 18:02:08 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Paul-R on 2014-11-29, 15:56:37 I have heard reference to CEMF. Do you know what that is? Typically that acronym is referring to the same thing: Counter ElectroMotive Force.

JimBoot	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #141 on: 2014-11-30, 09:51:16 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	Uploading latest video now. . Getting a nice glow from incandescent no extra draw from battery on the dmm anyway. Any recommendations for a good cad app for iOS? I need to redesign as the current rotor isn't cutting it.

Matt Watts	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #142 on: 2014-11-30, 10:04:55 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: JimBoot on 2014-11-30, 09:51:16 Uploading latest video now. . Getting a nice glow from incandescent no extra draw from battery on the dmm anyway. Any recommendations for a good cad app for iOS? I need to redesign as the current rotor isn't cutting it. You have a bunch of us getting excited. Looking forward to seeing you scale this up. Here's a CAD package that may work for you on an iPad: http://www.cartomapcad.com/

JimBoot	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #143 on: 2014-11-30, 10:08:10 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	Thanks Matt, a long way to go yet but it's the most promising device I've worked on. My first was the orbo. Pardon my ignorance but do you measure current on ac the same way you do dc?

JimBoot	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #144 on: 2014-11-30, 10:19:04 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	Btw I'd love some explanations of what I'm seeing. I don't think any one else has the coils perpendicular to their rotors. I'd like to understand the theory better there and also the magnetic coupling of the steels I'm doing. I remember researching a theory around it but I can't remember what it was. On the current gen i have 3 steels that hold the coils. When I connect two of the steels with a third I get a great boost in output. In the vid I said 10% but it is a lot more than that. When I hook up the third stationary steel though I only get a little jump. Hopefully it will be clearer in the video

Matt Watts	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #145 on: 2014-11-30, 10:45:16 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: JimBoot on 2014-11-30, 10:08:10 Pardon my ignorance but do you measure current on ac the same way you do dc? You can if you use a scope. I've always been leery of using a clamp meter with anything but 60 cycle AC. And even that, if your waveform isn't pure sine, the readings are dodgy. I rarely even use a digital meter anymore. I use an old analog Simpson, but only to see if something is increasing or decreasing, never for a hard value. Best practice for me is to use a very small ohm shunt. I typically go with 0.1 ohm or smaller and use my scope. Find a common ground point and measure both voltage from the source and voltage across the shunt. With a dual trace scope you will get a pretty good idea what you really have moving through the wire. Having played with the many reactive power experiments, this is the only way to go to really see the phase relationship. If there is any sort of capacitor or inductor in the circuit, don't shortcut with meters and clamps, put it on the scope as I suggest and examine closely what you are working with. For some things, just a plain old filament light bulb tells me what I need to know, for others, go all the way and get the the scope data. Beyond that, there are some sharp cookies on this forum that can set you up for specialty testing.

JimBoot	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #146 on: 2014-11-30, 10:55:12 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	Excellent. Thanks again Matt. I think I'll wait until I get a stable setup before before I hook up the scope. I'd also like to go direct drive and eliminate the losses in the belt. So lots to do first. Edit: also the output is best with the laminated steel, I've tried mumetal and ferrite. Would soft iron be any better in theory? Or is electric steel the way to go?

T-1000	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #147 on: 2014-11-30, 11:57:16 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	Quote from: JimBoot on 2014-11-30, 09:51:16 Uploading latest video now. . Getting a nice glow from incandescent no extra draw from battery on the dmm anyway. Any recommendations for a good cad app for iOS? I need to redesign as the current rotor isn't cutting it. There are many For example http://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Download Tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=FreeCAD+Tutorial « Last Edit: 2014-11-30, 13:17:24 by T-1000 »

JimBoot	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #148 on: 2014-11-30, 12:14:17 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	Here you go http://youtu.be/v_Kf5RsTGZ4 feedback welcome

TinMan	Re: Flux Interrupter, BEMF Eliminator « Reply #149 on: 2014-11-30, 12:16:12 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote from: JimBoot on 2014-11-30, 12:14:17 Here you go http://youtu.be/v_Kf5RsTGZ4 feedback welcome Nice Jim Do you remember TimberJack-theguy(and my good friend) that opened the IAEC forum before i took over the job. He is putting together a very nice setup-->check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Un7-Gsj2c --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

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