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Author Topic: Some "New" Observations  (Read 219010 times)

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By AVEC, I assume that you mean the completed Spherics-type unit.  I"m slow and haven't re-read the data yet, as My copy is VERY dated.  (I promise to read that thread, and update my knowledge...)

Here's my problem, and the "Opinion" I am looking for.  The "Extra" coil concept has the "Electric Field" going off the "End" of the coil.  If I want this to go around in a circle, then pointing the coils inward has no function.  Were I to be attempting to use the other types of fields, and operate like a motor per se, that would be correct, but I am not.  I wish to take the "Electric Field" that would normally travel up an MT Tower, and get that very same field to propagate around the torrid shape.  I realize the danger involved, as the voltage could easily go VERY high, Very fast, but this concept goes against what many have said, so feels interesting.

As I mentioned, very simple design, and very simple concept.  I'm gonna try as the assembly will take minutes to rig up, once I re-wind my wire spool with the trailing ends under the coils.  May get nothing but it seems like a fun experiment.  I just still need a way to terminate, and if a gap reflects, that won't do.  I certainly won't wind a BIG coil, as that slides out of "Original" TPU designs.  I don't want to "re-invent" the wheel before I see one turn, if you get my meaning.  I Will find a way.

Thanks.

When you first close the switch, an electric field propagates from EACH END of the circuit, from the source.  Many will say this is incorrect, but what do they know?  So, the electric field does not go off the end of the coil, it comes off the coil in all directions from both ends at the same time.  In Tesla's MT, the coil is grounded and terminated with a large metallic surface, so this is different.  You want a portable device with no ground connection, not an MT.  Although,  a grounded device may work well for home power.

With the AVEC method, the Em Field is produced sequentially to produce rotation.  The bifilar method produces the necessary field when the pulses interact and one pulse is delayed.  I would think that you could adjust one or both of them to the coil you are using and get the pulse to rotate.  Keep in mind that if you tune the pulses to rotate with the ambient gravitation field, it will revere when flipped - see Coriolis Effect.  If it is sitting still you can detect it and see the oscillation or see some traveling waves on the collector output, but you get no DC output.  So, did anyone that failed the AVEC produce a rotating E-field?  Probably not.  Oh, and by rotating E-field I mean the actual carriers of the field are actually moving, call it tubes of force, call it aether, call it virtual protons, or call it magic, but it's moving.  Also, keep in mind that the rotating field by itself should produce an output since gravity is ever-present on Earth.

The "flow from both ends" issue makes using a toroid a little difficult with only an impact excitation.  You may be able to make a toroidal MT coil, gronded and terminated at the other end with a large plate.  Then the ends of highest potential are close together which will not work.  This approach does not look promising, so I recommend either of the other two.
   

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I know some will disagree with the statement that electrical energy flows from both ends of the circuit.

The following article is an interesting read on this subject:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=79.msg7497#msg7497

   
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To ION
The spark is caused by the start up circuit not by the tpu running,the first switch turns off the tpu.The start switch sets conditions for the tpu to start up when the first switch is turned on.Sm may have damaged the insulation on the wire in the toroid.More coming on the start circuits when i get some free time.
   

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I am going under that theory, as of "Right Now".  This, being a TPU thread, seems a better place to comment.

I would draw a picture, but my artwork stinks, so I will verbalize it and see who says what.  Figure four coils, around a torrid design, with the actual torrid core being "Wire".  (Leave it there for now.)  Two of the coils wound one way, two wound opposite, so as to help eliminate some of the inevitable conduction current in them.  (This may not be necessary, or possible, but....)  If coil one input gets the hv pulse, and the output lead is placed under, or "Internal" to the next coil, and the coil is driven as a Tesla MT Extra coil, then this wire should have a continuously increasing dV/dt on it.  Then this output needs to have "Something" done with it.  (Not quite there, yet..)

If this concept is functional, then a large "Electrical Field" could be made to rotate around the exterior of the torrid, without much draw as to conventional conduction current.  Does this sound reasonable?  (I'm throwing one together, either way, but what does anyone think?)

Any suggestions as to how to terminate this HV pulse would be appreciated, as I don't want Capacitive effects reflecting the HV back through the coil, but I can't just load the thing down as that could kill the "Extra" coil function.  Any Ideas????  A Spark gap to the next, same direction wound coil is going to be my first attempt, but I have no clue as to how effective this will be.  Sure would be easy to hide such a thing, as the spark might not even be visable, at the low conduction current involved.  I doubt it would be audible, either?   These are all just "Guesses", but I need to build something "FUN" to get out of my existing rut.


Loner check out my schematics and coil design in my bench under the Large Signal Reciever thread.


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"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
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To ION
The spark is caused by the start up circuit not by the tpu running, the first switch turns off the tpu.The start switch sets conditions for the tpu to start up when the first switch is turned on. Sm may have damaged the insulation on the wire in the toroid. More coming on the start circuits when i get some free time.

So your guessing that SM's talk of "first frequency, second frequency" was a ruse.

Any small nick in the formvar coating would allow breakover if the instantaneous voltage was high enough.

Great, and thanks again for the info thus far....every clue is important.


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To ION

The two frequencies is a ruse,it would require solid state oscillators,althu if your asking
how can you know for sure.I'm going to have to think on that one,there is a bunch of things
 that make the two frequencies theory a fake,one your mixing waves and producing dc from the waves.
Still a good question because it has been the thinking of the overunity people from the word go
 that SM doesn't lie and he wanted them to be able to build a tpu.We don't know the level of abilities that SM has
first he knows only tube theory,then he doesn't know solid state electronics,then he does.In building start up circuits
first I put a condition I can only use very limited soild state parts, what radio shack had in 1996,very hard to do.Jack Durban said SM was a tinkerer
he did get nasty to lure SM out but hes assessment still is,SM had limited electronic  knowledge and was a tinkerer
,add to it,very creative with what he knows.I'm going have to think on this,and how to present it.

   

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Does anyone really think that SM was not smart enough to figure out how to use transistors to build oscillators or multvibrators?
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Nice smackdown, Grumpy!
The harmonics generated by the 2 frequencies would definately attach the earth resonant and tpu resonant magnetic fields causing a dual tuning fork ringing. With feedback and magnification you could get COP >1. Match up the circumference, the frequencies, the harmonics and the ring(feedback) so the toroid matches the earth field. Instead of having oil in water we have complete synchronization.

Notice how the explanation includes frequencies? 'Frequency equals matter' is my mantra. Maybe the rest of reality will see some day. Otherwise Tesla, Leedskalnin, Hutchison, Keely, Einstein, Russell all look like idiots too.

I would hope that anybody having the Hutzpah to post has read the works by these men and not just spewing collegiate diatribe. :(

Does anyone really think that SM was not smart enough to figure out how to use transistors to build oscillators or multvibrators?


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Quote
Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:13:59 EST
Subject: Re: In reply . . .
To: lindsay@xxx.com
CC: lindsay@xxx
    Dear Lindsay,
That brings up some more information I want to convey.
Some of the units in the demo videos did in fact have one or two 9V batteries to provide a separate controllable DC source for the solid state control circuit.
We eventually learned how to make the power converters start with only the flick of a permanent magnet across the coils.
You may find it humorous that we had to find a way to make the things work without any batteries purely because UEC needed us to honestly answer the question >Does it have any batteries inside of it?< They wanted us to be able to truthfully answer NO, to anyone who asked that question.
You would be surprised how difficult it can be to explained to a lay person how impossible it is to convert a 9V battery  into the juice needed to light a single 100 watt 120 volt light bulb, let alone make toast with an electric toaster!!!
Sincerely,
SM

Quote
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:21:19 EST
Subject: Re: INFO
To:
    My Dear Friend,
I hope this finds you well.
First of all.
I need to be very careful in what I say.... You know.
You can do much with those frequencies.
Higher frequencies are actually the real catalyst...
He is using Transistors and a signal generator...I wish people could use vacuum tubes. There is a difference. remember i told you that it was easer to experiment with tubes, but, what took a LONG time was designing a small solid state control device? Do you remember that, lindsay? Everything I say has a meaning and a reason usually. Not to say that everything I say is really significant, i just mean that usually technical details are relevant in some way.
I have noticed that people all over the world appear to be certain that solid state and direct electron flow devices achieve the same results. This is absolutely not so. Vacuum tubes have EXTREAMLY FAST TRANSIT TIMES. Solid state devices are like molasses! They also use about a million percent of feed-back to get a clean signal output. vacuum tube devices are fast, accurate and only require a few db of feedback to achieve better result.
Lets just look at simple power amplifier as an example: A 100 watt solid state amplifier will consist on average with a compliment of 30 or so transistors. lots of amplifying and control devices all based on high current low voltage. Low voltage means SLOW. also, all those transistors in the amplifying stages slow down the signal process.
Now look at a basic electron tube device. You have one stage of amplification, one stage of signal phase splitting and driving and one stage of power output, all at high voltage low current. This means FAST! it also means that the feedback for frequency output correction is FAST also.
Now you see why I i have always said that tubes are much better for experimentation.
Solid state devices are too slow to find the three major intersecting you know whats...
I have to go now.
Please keep the site going for now
Sincerely,
S     Ü

Quote
From:  Add to Address Book  Add Mobile Alert 
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:48:15 EST
Subject: Re: Stock report
To:
    My Dear Friend,
It is good to hear from you. I am OK.
Do not worry about feeling strange about my promise. I feel it is the least I can do for you and myself. I must pass on the legacy...
By the way. I have really THOUGHT about how to help you and the others. I can not tell you too much about the design of the technology because the company who still owns the technology is reading my every word, as you know and just waiting to cut off my pension if I tell you too much.
BUT!
I want you to start and think of the generator principles the exact same way that passing the sound barrier was accomplished. Read how the engineers in this country finally developed the proper wing design to accomplish super sonic speed in aircraft. I hope it will give you a picture of what is going on inside the generator and especially the collector.
I can only talk to you guys metaphorically because the company is threatening me constantly and my attorneys have warned me several times this month to STOP writing to the web site or I must face the consequences. I wonder if any of the folks realize just what I am risking when I give them information that they just take for granted and then demand more.
 
The people who say that tubes are exactly the same as transistors are very, very naive. And now I will tell you something very important. You remember I mentioned fast electron transit time vs molasses?
Let us examine a simple audio amplifier. When you design an amplifier you try to isolate noise, or hash from the mains power supply from getting into the B+ and contaminating the output signal, etc. You can measure all kinds of noise from the mains in your B+ not to mention all the noisy spikes from the solid state rectifiers giving the direct current to the power capacitors. All of this is easily measured, or seen on a scope of most solid state audio amplifiers. NOW design and make a good tube amplifier and you will immediately find a dramatic difference in the B+ supply measurements and what you can see on the scope. No more spikes from the solid state rectifiers, almost no hash from the mains power coming in! REMEMBER, all of that noise and hash in your solid state amplifier is in the output signal ! Now tell me? What do you think is happening inside the extremely sensitive torrid generator when you use solid state devices to attempt to create the required precise control frequencies to make catalyst and produce power???
By the way, your Solid State amplifier generates so much noise that if you measure the mains wiring you can see noise from YOUR amplifier actually getting back through the transformer and into the mains input wiring!!!
It is obvious that most of the people reading the web site and experimenting know nothing about reading a scope and understanding what perfect frequency is. They also have no concept of how important the control frequencies are in order to make power from the collector.
It is obvious that most of the people trying to duplicate my experiment are not of the intellectual caliper necessary to develop my technology or at the very least they need to invest in some laboratory grade instruments in order to develop any progress.
I assumed that anyone working on technology this sophisticated would have a superior knowledge of electronics and an understanding of PURE frequency output being a Necessity to control the reactions going on inside the collector.
Please place this on the web site and let them know that if they do not have a more then average understanding of electron flow then they should not endeavor to try and duplicate my device because they do not stand a chance. I am tired of reading their disappointments because they do not have the education or the knowledge necessary to duplicate my technology.
Sincerely,
SM     Ü
   
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Nice smackdown, Grumpy!
The harmonics generated by the 2 frequencies would definately attach the earth resonant and tpu resonant magnetic fields causing a dual tuning fork ringing. With feedback and magnification you could get COP >1. Match up the circumference, the frequencies, the harmonics and the ring(feedback) so the toroid matches the earth field. Instead of having oil in water we have complete synchronization.

Notice how the explanation includes frequencies? 'Frequency equals matter' is my mantra. Maybe the rest of reality will see some day. Otherwise Tesla, Leedskalnin, Hutchison, Keely, Einstein, Russell all look like idiots too.

I would hope that anybody having the Hutzpah to post has read the works by these men and not just spewing collegiate diatribe. Sad

Have we entered the realm of tag team wrestling?

Perhaps, the forces at work play on a very deep level to lead everyone away from the goal and know quite well how to "wag the dog"

 A careful read of the info posted by G above could lead to many conclusions, one of which is that SM or whoever was writing to Lindsay had an agenda.

 That agenda could have been to lead people further from the goal with misinfo and the attempt was to make it more believable by adding the "lawyers warnings" and "pension cutoffs" etc. Maybe that is what SM got paid for.

So it's all just information, part of a complicated picture. Not to be taken at face value, as there are many layers of sheepdip at play.

Still no one has a TPU despite all the attempts with tubes etc. and despite all the braggadocio by those that make bold claims and continually act as if they already know how to do it.


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Good points ION, and CP is doing some fine dissection of the videos.

Here is an interesting quote from SM to Lindsay:

Quote
The energy released from the speed of multiple projectiles increases the energy available to be dissipated upon impact many fold!
The faster the speed of ANYTHING the more energy will be available for conversion.
A long time ago, i said, if you take a bullet and throw it at the side of an automobile;e it will bounce off. However, if you place the bullet into a gun and fire it at the automobile it, with sufficient velocity, go through the metal door and through the other side because of the inertia energy available for conversion.
Speed is energy if you can convert the mass into energy quickly enough!
Anything no matter how small can store enough energy to convert into huge amounts of energy.
Even electrons.....................................
Now, electrons can travel only so fast along the surface of the wire because of magnetic flux. what if you disable the effects of the flux?
Now the electrons float freely without anything holding them back. electrons at the sped of light are now a possibility! How much energy can be converted from a stream of electrons traveling close to the speed of light? Remember the bullet story.

Think of this:
Energy conversion is different when you consider speed. 12 volts at 100 amps is slow and the energy can not dissipate quickly enough to kill you by discharge. But, it is a lot of energy especially if converted to speed. Reduce that 100 amps to 100 mA but increase the voltage (speed) to 100,000 volts and you can electrocute someone!
"My unit operates on these principles"!!!!!. Think about all those frequencies traveling inside the collector coil and how they interact.....
Sincerely,
Ü

If SM moves the rotating field fast enough, the field will not curl at the surface of the collector and no magnetic field will be formed to slow the electrons.
   
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hi

Simple ? What do you mean ? do you have a picture of it  or schematic ?
   
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what about pushing electrons like water inside hose ? may it be that internally it is a big copper wire in circle with light speed electrons speeded up by external coil(s) ? like  cyclotron ?
   
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Grumpy

Your post #35 is probably one of the most important pieces of information in all of TPU data base.

At times, SM probably couldn't help himself and would have to spurt out a truth now and then. I believe this to be one of those times.

Quote
"what if you disable the effects of the flux?"

Getting past the drift velocity may be key. Disable the flux and corioles and a few kicks does the rest.


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Quote
what about pushing electrons like water inside hose ?

Interesting question.  Are you familiar with the Traveling Wave Tube?

The TWT and the Beam Klystron operate on similar principles and
both make use of high velocity electrons.


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Grumpy

Your post #35 is probably one of the most important pieces of information in all of TPU data base.

At times, SM probably couldn't help himself and would have to spurt out a truth now and then. I believe this to be one of those times.

Getting past the drift velocity may be key. Disable the flux and corioles and a few kicks does the rest.

I came to this in a round-about-sort-of-way after looking at the moving electric field that is the actual transfer of energy and trying to figure out how this moving electric field produces the magnetic field associated with a current.  Well, I figured that out and saw that if the field is moving fast enough, no magnetic field will manifest.  This has nothing to do with cancelling the flux, but rather avoiding it's formation entirely.  There is also the possibility that the magnetic field will not form if the electric field is applied only on one side, but I felt the former theory to be more valid.  Unfortunately, literature on eletricity at the "micro" level is hard to find.

So, the jist is that the magnetic field that slows the electrons never forms so they travel with the speed of the inducing field minus losses in the conductor such as collisions and whatver else is occuring.  I would expect normal heating from the current to not be present, but this is still a lot of speculation.
   

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From reading a lot of articles on movein electric fields, the most popular conclusion is that the moving elecric field produces a magnetic field.

At the micro level, how (physically) does a moving electric field curl into a magnetic field that is perpendicular to the electric field?

My own conclusion, at the moment (subject to change at any time), is that whenever a region of the moving electric field moves faster than an adjascent region, then the field curls like an eddy and forms a magnetic field.  So, if you can stop the eddy or the curl, you prevent the magnetic field from forming.  I suspect that at very high velocities, the curl does not form and is more of a slip or skew or sliding.  An electric field shockwave for example, probably slips.

   
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To ION

Tag team wrestling,good one,
anyway if your thinking
that the current is entering a region where the drift speed of the electrons is being changed.
Thats not whats happening you require energy to move the electrons.Heres a picture (top picture) a pulse is applied
 to a superconducting transformers primary, thats in liquid nitrogen.Electrons in a superconductor travel at
a very high rate,way beyond the drift speed in copper.The current flow exits going into the wire
 at room temperature the electrons slow
 down and go through the load,the pulse decays to nothing.Bottom picture secondary is tied to together this time
the current continues to flow forever as long as the temperature is at the superconducting
temperature of the wire,if it go's above this,the drift speed increases and the current stops.
Drift speed change does not explain the tpu's operation.The tpu picture shows a speeding up of electrons
in the collector with a slowing down of electrons at the load,without energy applied it must come to a stop.
   

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Electron drift, which many consider to be a "current", is a secondary effect, a by-product of the true process of energy transfer.  Some clever experiments have been performed to show that electrons drift too slowly to be the true energy carriers in an electric circuit.    :D

The true energy carrier is outside the conductor.  Electrons drifting along are an indication of energy flow, like ball bearings in a water pipe.  If you increase the flow of energy along the wire by "artificial means", either more electrons are moving or they are moving faster.   ;D

Of course you accomplish the same thing if you move them with very little expenditure of energy by tricking nature into doing the work for you.  O0
   

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Ion,

I wanted to mention that if the magnetic field in the collector depends on the opposing flows of positive and negative electric fields, then applying only a positive field would also prevent the magnetic field from forming and slowing down the electrons.
   

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This discussion and the ideas posted is why I believe tubes (valves) were part of the saga.
I have never thought the mention of tubes was an analogy. More like, the only commonly known example at the time.

No drift velocity slowness there. The manifested magnetic field is minimal and not the same orientation as current through a wire. The transit time was faster than most current solid state or any other conductor but still slow enough to move at sonic/supersonic speeds. This would keep the CEMF to a minimum.

The difficulty with this idea is a TPU would have to be a TWT or some kind of plasma chamber. Hard to imagine.



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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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velocity of electrons in a vacuum tube:

http://www.vias.org/basicradio/basic_radio_02_03.html
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Thanks CP2012 and G

More info here: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/teslatutorial/index.htm

The whole site is a good read, but go to CHUCKS Large Hadron Colliider powerpoint presentation at the top of the page(also at very bottom of page). There is some good info here regarding electron velocities in a vacuum.

Regarding electron velocity in a copper wire (from Wikipedia)

Electricity is most commonly conducted in a copper wire. Copper has a density of 8.94 g/cm³, and an atomic number of 63.546 g/mol, so there are 140685.5 mol/m³. In 1 mole of Copper there are 6.02×10^23 atoms(Avagadros constant). Therefore in 1m³ of copper there are about 8.5×1028 atoms (6.02×1023 x 140685.5 mol/m³. Copper has one free electron per atom, so n is equal to 8.5×1028 electrons per m³.

Assuming a current I=3 amperes, and a wire of 1 mm diameter (radius in meters = 0.0005m). This wire has a cross section area of 7.85×10-7' m2 ('A= π 0.00052 ). The charge of 1 electron is q=1.6×10−19 Coulombs. The drift velocity therefore can be calculated:

V= I/nAq V = 3 / (8.5×1028 x 7.85×10-7 x 1.6×10−19 ) V = 0.00028 m/s

[V] = [Amps] / [electron/m3] x [m2] x [Coulombs/electron] = [coulombs] / [seconds] x [electron/m3] x [m2] x [Coulombs/electron] = [meters] / [second]

Therefore in this wire the electrons are flowing at the rate of 0.00028 m/s, or very nearly 1.0 m/hour. This is quite slow, however in 1 hour 6,75x1022 electrons will flow through the wire. If the wire was 1 meter long, (assuming 18 Gauge copper wire) and 3 amps was flowing through it, it would consume as much energy as a 150mWatt light bulb. (Very rough calculation)


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What about changing the velocity of the electrons, making them flow faster or more of them flow?
   
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What about changing the velocity of the electrons, making them flow faster or more of them flow?

I guess that's where we have been going with this discussion, although CP2012 has a different take on this, it will be interesting to see his viewpoint when he presents it.

also a good read on "electron mobility"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_mobility



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