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2021-05-08, 13:40:13
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 7000 times)

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Using the calculator, i tried severall combinations of wire thickness, insulation thickness and length, but i never get below 2MHz intersection frequency, which is high for the kacher (typical between 1.3 and 1.7MHz).

And trying to match up wire outer diameter (wire thickness plus insulation) with a spaceless coil design always returns to about 3.xMhz intersection frequency, which is way to high.


I read that Stalker mentions this (page 55 bottom of PDF), and he recommends to go to 47M length as the bobbin thickness is thicker in Europe (4mm, mine is 3.5mm).
He was able to get an intersection frequency of 1.54Mhz, but i am unable to reach that low.

Looking further into this.

Itsu
   

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Hi; If you look at the Adrian Gustov device re his Grenade winding he uses fairly thin stranded PVC covered
Hook up wire, see below not sure you can still get it, 133 turns will just fit in the 22m wind on a 50mm (and tune to 36khz)
tube as you layer-wind each layer you will need accurate spacing between turns 0.5mm will just fit in as a filler (in my 2nd layer test wind)
the next layer would have to be worked out by trial and error (assuming you stick to the basic layout) just thought
I would mention it).


Specifications
Attribute   Value
Cross Sectional Area   0.5 mm²
Sheath Colour   Blue
Core Strands   16/0.2 mm
Insulation Material   PVC
Outer Diameter   1.65mm
Length   100m
Voltage Rating   1 kV
Conductor Material   Tinned Copper
Maximum Operating Temperature   +85°C
Shield Type   Unshielded
Insulation Wall Thickness   0.3mm
Minimum Operating Temperature   -15°C
   

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Posts: 353
Using the calculator, i tried severall combinations of wire thickness, insulation thickness and length, but i never get below 2MHz intersection frequency, which is high for the kacher (typical between 1.3 and 1.7MHz).

And trying to match up wire outer diameter (wire thickness plus insulation) with a spaceless coil design always returns to about 3.xMhz intersection frequency, which is way to high.


I read that Stalker mentions this (page 55 bottom of PDF), and he recommends to go to 47M length as the bobbin thickness is thicker in Europe (4mm, mine is 3.5mm).
He was able to get an intersection frequency of 1.54Mhz, but i am unable to reach that low.

Looking further into this.

Itsu

Itsu,
I listen that fragment again. He actually says that we don't need pay attention to the frequency, because it
is valid only for one layer coil. So only inductance and number of turns need to be taken from this calculator after matching turn-to-turn distance.
I guess 46 meters should be ok for your wire.

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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Posts: 353
Additional info about tuning


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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Vasik,   thanks, that helps.

So using the wire i have (outer dia 3.4mm, core dia 1.9mm), on my 3.5mm thick wall bobbin, i should have an inductance of 218uH and 274 turns using 46m.

Lets see if that works out that way.

Itsu
   
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Posts: 64
  Itsu:
   Good to see you taking a renewed interest in the Stalker circuits. You took them further than I did.
But, I still have all the components, that you had sent me. Waiting for another round...

  What Stalker never showed is, how well that circuit worked to achieve self running.
And, it makes me wonder... what ever happened to Stalker, after 5 years have passed since that video.
   
   NickZ

   PS. Thanks for the wake up call...May be time to wake up the deco art piece, that is still on my table.
   Tell me if I should get my gun ready for the next wild turkey shoot.
   Did you get snowed in, the other day? Almost?
« Last Edit: 2021-04-08, 17:37:10 by NickZ »
   

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Itsu,
I listen that fragment again. He actually says that we don't need pay attention to the frequency, because it
is valid only for one layer coil. So only inductance and number of turns need to be taken from this calculator after matching turn-to-turn distance.
I guess 46 meters should be ok for your wire.

Regards,
Vasik
Yes that's sort of true but misleading, if it's a different frequency it wouldn't be is resonance and the grenade would be a load of junk.
thats one reson why we all have a load of junk grenades  >:-) >:-)
SIL
   

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Hi Nick,

well due to Vasik his great work in translating severall video's of Stalker, i now see many ways where we might have went wrong in the past.

Whether or not these new insights lead to a selfrunner is another matter, but at least what i can do is check if these new insights produce similar results as showed by Stalker.

Presently i am testing my Grenade to see if i can get both LC resonance and Standing waves at a certain frequency (preferably around the kacher oscillation frequency (1.5MHz)).

But also his PushPull circuit presented is different and he shows how to tune it.

Anyway, take a look at the video's and text in the pdf to see for your self if its worthwhile

 
Weather here is crazy (as elsewhere), going from 25°C sunny to snowstorms and back.
No snow that sayed on the ground here at the coast where i live though.

Regards Itsu
   
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Posts: 64
   Of all the videos presented on the internet, Stalker, offers the best most descriptive videos ever shown to date. And, no, he does not ever show it self running. I now understand why. Yet, what he does show should not be a secret, and is not a secret, but still is not so easy to replicate properly, and with the same end results.
   Best of luck, itsu, I'll be watching you...very glad to see you checking this out, again.

   Vasik, best of luck to you, as well. Thanks for all your contributions, they have not been in vain.
 I feel that this is still the most important device replication, and information gathering, to date.
   
    NickZ
   

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Vasik,   thanks, that helps.

So using the wire i have (outer dia 3.4mm, core dia 1.9mm), on my 3.5mm thick wall bobbin, i should have an inductance of 218uH and 274 turns using 46m.

Lets see if that works out that way.

Itsu


I used my outer dia 3.4mm and core dia 1.9mm wire and wound a single coil with 47m wire (2x 0.5m leads) on a 1m long pvc bobbin with a 3.5mm thick wall according the calculator, see below.

The results can be seen in the both pictures.

1st picture the overall view showing the coil with LCR meter (217uH @ 100KHz) and the number of turns (274).

2th picture a close up of the length of the coil (94cm).

So the results are very close to the calculated value's, which is a good start.

Itsu

« Last Edit: 2021-04-09, 11:30:18 by Itsu »
   

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Posts: 2678
   Of all the videos presented on the internet, Stalker, offers the best most descriptive videos ever shown to date. And, no, he does not ever show it self running. I now understand why. Yet, what he does show should not be a secret, and is not a secret, but still is not so easy to replicate properly, and with the same end results.
   Best of luck, itsu, I'll be watching you...very glad to see you checking this out, again.

   Vasik, best of luck to you, as well. Thanks for all your contributions, they have not been in vain.
 I feel that this is still the most important device replication, and information gathering, to date.
   
    NickZ

Thanks Nick, fwiw, see the bonus video in the RK.pdf at the end, it shows a teaser from a device/video made by Sergei Alekseev.

There is a sparkgap near the antenna which seem to cause that the ringing on the (pulsed) kacher is minimized, something Stalker also mentions somewhere in the pdf.

Itsu
   
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Posts: 64
  I had originally wound my grenade using new scrap house cables from previous house constructions. That is what I'm still using. It is 37.5 meters long, but is made using different thickness wires, to finish it off. I used thicker wire than what was recommended, and had a hard time making it all fit like its supposed to. I thought that thicker was better, but I can see that is not the case due to what you've mentioned about thickness issues.
    I always try to use materials that I have on hand, first, before buying anything. As I am not close to any electronics store, and have no car.
I can see now that that perhaps was not a good idea, to use different gauge wire, in this case.

 Itsu, can you confirm which schematic you are following, and which video of Stalkers you are based on. I know that you're on the subject of the grenade now. But, is this below what you're looking into?

   Thanks,
               NickZ

   
   

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Removed as redundant information.

« Last Edit: 2021-04-09, 20:33:19 by AlienGrey »
   

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Here is the dialoge from one of the Stalker films

Hi AlienGrey,

this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0mwwyAbks
is about regular Tesla coil, not about gradient coil.

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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  I had originally wound my grenade using new scrap house cables from previous house constructions. That is what I'm still using. It is 37.5 meters long, but is made using different thickness wires, to finish it off. I used thicker wire than what was recommended, and had a hard time making it all fit like its supposed to. I thought that thicker was better, but I can see that is not the case due to what you've mentioned about thickness issues.
    I always try to use materials that I have on hand, first, before buying anything. As I am not close to any electronics store, and have no car.
I can see now that that perhaps was not a good idea, to use different gauge wire, in this case.

 Itsu, can you confirm which schematic you are following, and which video of Stalkers you are based on. I know that you're on the subject of the grenade now. But, is this below what you're looking into?

   Thanks,
               NickZ

 

Nick,

I am presently looking at the Grenade part (PDF page 44 and on), i understand that there is a whole lot more to this grenade then what i was thinking back then, follow that page 44 video and the translation.


Concerning your pictures, i am waiting for some parts to build again the pushpull / MOSFET driven Kacher synced pulse generator, see your 1st picture following the first video/text in the pdf (page 1).

Your 2th and 3th pictures are about the Kacher transistor drive circuit (using 3 MOSFETs) which i do not build (yet).

Itsu
   

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Using Stalkers pulse amp. (see diagram/text on page 59 of the pdf), i am pulsing the long coil and check for rings on the fluro lamp which might/could/should indicate standing waves.

My problem is that the build is on a breadboard and not really suitable for 2MHz.

There is a lot of noise, feedback and oscillations, so struggling a bit with it still.


Video here: https://youtu.be/qOLg_FPcu3Q

Regards itsu
   

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Posts: 353
Hi Itsu,

You can try using some other MOSFET witch has smaller gate capacity, something which used in RF amplifiers.
Maybe IRF510 or IRF640.

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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Posts: 353
One more thing about testing coils.
It is also possible use signal generator without amplifier.
Feed signal through one turn coil and search for resonance frequencies.
Left scope probe just laying close to the coil.
You will see maximum amplitude on the scope at coil's resonance frequency.
If it is LC resonance, it will be very sensitive to surroundings e.g. it will drift when you put hand on the coil.
If it is wave resonance, it will NOT be affected by hand.

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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Vasik,

yes, i will do some more testing on this coil to find out if the predicted Fres = 2.46MHz is accurate, thanks for your methode.

According to Vishay datasheets, these are the input (Ciss) values @ 25Vds:
 
IRF840 1018pF   500Vds max.
IRF640 1300pF   200Vds max.
IRF510  180pF   100Vds max.

So the IRF510 is better, but lacks the Vds voltage (only 100V), and i have seen peaks up to 500V, so i will try to improve on the circuit using the IRF840 for now.

Itsu
   

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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
Vasik041 Hi; Question , a bit of topic but relevant,  Youtube translations when using closed caption and selected language like English  do you know of a way to save the translated subtitled Video with the displayed translation caption ?

Other than using a video camera to save it ?

Regards SIL
   

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Posts: 353
AlienGray,

Yes, you can use for example https://downsub.com/ web site.
Just copy-paste youtube URL there and you can download original and automatically translated subtitles.
Auto-generated/auto-translated subtitles not very good quality in case of Russian.
If I use auto-translated subtitles as a base for transcript, I have to rewrite significant part of it to make it somehow understandable :)

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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Using 2 methods to measure the coils LC resonance, by sweeping with the FG from 10KHz to 4MHz in 10s (so scope shows 400KHz/div.).

1st method shows on the scope in 400KHz/div. a resonance peak around 2.4Mhz.

While the other methode picks up the resonance peak at a single trigger point (for max. amplitude) and triggers at 2.38MHz.

Approaching / touching the coil with the hand shows a downward in frequency and amplitude going signal pointing to the LC resonance point.

Now looking for a way to measure / show the standing wave frequency point.

Video here: https://youtu.be/EgY7sANTNrc

Itsu
   

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Posts: 353
Hi Itsu,

Some ideas about locating 1/4 wave resonance.
When 1/4 wave resonance occur current in "cold end" (left) will increase and at same time voltage on "hot end" (right) also will increase.
Unlike LC resonance when only voltage or current increase.
So in order to see 1/4 wave resonance you need some ground connected to cold end.
Is your scope grounded ?
Then, if you use scope probe to detect voltage you need place it closer to hot end (so it can pick up field around it)
and probe in the middle can potentially create interference even it is not connected.
I made small picture to illustrate what I mean and tried to show it on a screenshot from your video.

Regards,
Vasik


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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Posts: 2678

Vasik,

Yes, scope is grounded.

i see what you mean, so i will have to use a solid ground lead on the bottom side and probe the top side field.

Perhaps i can also use my current probe at the bottom side to measure the current there.


I was looking more at a visual aid like the fluro lamp or some neon bulbs or leds to show the standing wave, but on the other hand i don't want to stay to long with the long coil and continue to make a Grenade out of it and test that.

Itsu 
   

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Posts: 353
Vasik,

Yes, scope is grounded.
i see what you mean, so i will have to use a solid ground lead on the bottom side and probe the top side field.
Perhaps i can also use my current probe at the bottom side to measure the current there.
I was looking more at a visual aid like the fluro lamp or some neon bulbs or leds to show the standing wave, but on the other hand i don't want to stay to long with the long coil and continue to make a Grenade out of it and test that.

Itsu

Itsu,

Small fluorescent lamp or neon bulb will lit up at 1/4 resonance at the right end of coil even from signal generator.
You can also see the field distribution around the coil, but this is "crude" method, you can use it e.g. for distinguishing 1/4 and 1/2 modes, but probably not for detecting exact frequency.

Regards,
Vasik

PS If I understood it right, Stalker said that those dim areas on fluorescent lamp should stop at wave resonance, but I haven't tried it, so can't comment on it.


---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
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