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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 113702 times)

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Is it better than these methods for obtaining high Q which avoid the dominant dielectric losses of the wire's insulation ?
https://www.lessmiths.com/~kjsmith/crystal/coilq.shtml
https://www.w8ji.com/loading_inductors.htm
https://hamwaves.com/coils/en/

Anyway, I was not asking about intermediate effects but about the fundamental Modus Operandi that Stalker mentioned in these videos:
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI?t=1978
https://youtu.be/v6FrGTF731o?t=1646

Hi verpies,

These are videos about selecting proper frequencies for push pull and Tesla coil.
I made summary, please see attached.

Vasik



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Well,  the standing wave is the result of 2 moving waves (forward and reflected, see gif in AG his post #133 above).

I should have tailored the Grenade coil so that both the LC resonance frequency and that standing wave frequency are the same, but i fail to conclusively test that.

Itsu

Yes, I know that, and standard antenna theory.

If you are injecting only one frequency then the standing wave will be the same frequency but with the delay, use a cross needle SWR meter and connect the meters to two channels to your oscilloscope.

I must admit I have not looked at all this thread but I assume the idea is to coincide the peaks of the forward and reflected wave peaks to double the energy and extract it.

The problem I see is if the directions are opposite the positives and negatives will cancel out, where is the gain if they are both sine waves!

If they are half waves then there is a possibility, but there should be a frequency and so phase difference between the two even if it is a few 10s or 100s of Hz of a second or third harmonic of the first harmonic.

EG.

First harmonic 1000Hz

                                      1000Hz

Second harmonic 2000Hz                0Hz

                                      1000Hz

Third harmonic    3000Hz


First harmonic 1000Hz

                                                           1100Hz

Second harmonic 2000 + 100  = 2100Hz              100Hz

                                                           1200Hz

Third harmonic 3000 + 300 = 3300Hz

Both the above are repeating cycles, but only the second set will be able to have a possible gain, that within the 100Hz.

If you want to remove the post, it is ok with me, that is if you don't think it has any reference to the replications in this thread.

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Mike,

This device work based on Tesla radiant energy receiver patent.
Tesla coil is a source, gradient coil is a receiver "plate".

Vasik


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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  I think that the purpose behind the standing wave in this case, is to allow the Kacher pulse to modulate and ride in the standing wave.
   Like a radio station signal, the grenade or gradient coil (Radio Moscow) pulse is a carrier wave for the Kacher signal or pulse. Just how or why this all works needs to be studied and tested to see what is really going on there. That is, once we have something that actually works like it should.
I personally don't care how it works, so long as it works. I don't really know even how my cell phone works, but I use it daily.
Point being, lets just get something working here, then we can figure the rest of it out. Seams like all the different replicators of this device, have a different answer as to where the "extra" energy is coming from, such as NMR, the Aether, or surrounding energy fields, etc...  Does it really matter, for now?
   Seams like Vasik has a pretty good idea as to its workings. Or at least understands how is supposed to work. Even though he may not have gotten it working yet, either.
   I'm listening and following along. Like I had mentioned, only the Slavs know what we are dealing with here. At least up to now. So, lets listen to them.

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-04-16, 15:47:38 by NickZ »
   

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Is it better than these methods for obtaining high Q which avoid the dominant dielectric losses of the wire's insulation ?
https://www.lessmiths.com/~kjsmith/crystal/coilq.shtml
https://www.w8ji.com/loading_inductors.htm
https://hamwaves.com/coils/en/

Anyway, I was not asking about intermediate effects but about the fundamental Modus Operandi that Stalker mentioned in these videos:
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI?t=1978
https://youtu.be/v6FrGTF731o?t=1646


  Verpies:  Have any of the above methods being known to provide for self running???  If not, then yes, IT IS better... and we need to confirm that.

   NickZ
   

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Well,  the standing wave is the result of 2 moving waves (forward and reflected, see gif in AG his post #133 above).

I should have tailored the Grenade coil so that both the LC resonance frequency and that standing wave frequency are the same, but i fail to conclusively test that.

Itsu


   It is not perhaps more like a single wave reflecting back onto itself? Not two waves. Why, is it called a standing wave?
 Is it not more like a carrier wave?

   Itsu, what exactly is keeping you from being able to control the LC frequency to match the standing wave frequency?
« Last Edit: 2021-04-16, 15:53:45 by NickZ »
   

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Mike,

This device work based on Tesla radiant energy receiver patent.
Tesla coil is a source, gradient coil is a receiver "plate".

Vasik

Hi Vasik,

OK so we are on the same page :)

I always believe you have to have some vision as to where this energy is to come from in the first place, even if it is found to be wrong in the end.

I will watch your progress and only interrupt if it is applicable to the conversation.

I hate winding coils over and over again :D

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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   It is not perhaps more like a single wave reflecting back onto itself? Not two waves. Why, is it called a standing wave?
 Is it not more like a carrier wave?

   Itsu, what exactly is keeping you from being able to control the LC frequency to match the standing wave frequency?

Nick,

yes, its a single (moving-1) wave reflected back (moving-2) onto itself causing at a fixed position a standing wave, see post #133 gif.

I have no control over the standing wave frequency, it is fixed by the length of the wire, the purity of the used copper and the dielectricum of the insulation.
The calculator says 2.4Mhz for my 47m as a single layer coil, but i would like to "see"  that on my measurement equipment.

So far the calculator says 2.4Mhz for both LC (@ 218uH) and standing wave resonance (single layer coil).
I measure the 2.4MHz LC resonance (@ 217uH) on that single layer coil, but could not confirm the 2.4Mhz standing wave frequency.

The Grenade using the same 47m wire and the same (almost) inductance (225uH), but its LC resonance frequency seem to be 1.2Mhz which is half of the single layer coil, why? 
Added interwinding capacitance?

Its standing wave frequency looks to be 600Khz, so half of its LC frequency (1.2MHz), and that is what puzzles me, why again the halving, as i would expect it to be the same as the calculator / single long coil (2.4MHz) as the length of the cable did not change.

So enough to test/understand still.

Itsu
   
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Nick,

yes, its a single (moving-1) wave reflected back (moving-2) onto itself causing at a fixed position a standing wave, see post #133 gif.

I have no control over the standing wave frequency, it is fixed by the length of the wire, the purity of the used copper and the dielectricum of the insulation.
The calculator says 2.4Mhz for my 47m as a single layer coil, but i would like to "see"  that on my measurement equipment.

So far the calculator says 2.4Mhz for both LC (@ 218uH) and standing wave resonance (single layer coil).
I measure the 2.4MHz LC resonance (@ 217uH) on that single layer coil, but could not confirm the 2.4Mhz standing wave frequency.

The Grenade using the same 47m wire and the same (almost) inductance (225uH), but its LC resonance frequency seem to be 1.2Mhz which is half of the single layer coil, why? 
Added interwinding capacitance?

Its standing wave frequency looks to be 600Khz, so half of its LC frequency (1.2MHz), and that is what puzzles me, why again the halving, as i would expect it to be the same as the calculator / single long coil (2.4MHz) as the length of the cable did not change.

So enough to test/understand still.

Itsu
Itsu,

This is my guess that it is a difference in the self capacitance of the overall winding.  The spacing of the conductor from the dimensions of the insulation could be one factor but another could be the k factor or dielectric constant of the particular insulation used.

Can an external capacitance be used to bring the LC resonance to match the wavelength?

Regards,
Pm

Edit: Whoops, I see that adding capacitance will not help in your problem!  It would seem that the only solution would be to space the turns/windings to reduce the self capacitance.
   

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    Itsu: Thanks for your explanations.

   Could it be that the 1/2 of the frequency readings are caused by the grenade's opposite turns and windings, which amount to 1/2 the total size?

    It's interesting to see what your scope reading are on these tests. Although your grenade coil is several meters longer than mine is (37.5m), your scope reading are close to what mine are. Mine are around 19Khz for the grenade, and around 1MHz for my kacher.  Where I get the best interactions.
   

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Itsu,

I am wondering if you checked higher frequencies ?
Like in today's video, there actually 3 different resonances (around 1Mhz, 4.5Mhz, 7Mhz etc)

Vasik
« Last Edit: 2021-04-16, 19:30:32 by Vasik041 »


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PM,

thanks for your insights, i could try to lower the LC resonance frequency by adding a ferrite bar inside the coil (increasing inductance) or using an external capacitor (increasing capacitance), but i try to work as close as possible to stalkers guidelines in making this Grenade and understand how/what he is doing.


Nick,

Stalker (and i) carefully tried to make the Grenade inductance the same as the single layer coil of the same length of wire, thus it should be LC resonating (induction wise) at the same frequency.
IMHO the difference must then come from the other resonance determining factor: (self)capacitance.

Why the standing wave frequency is ¼ of the calculated one is more of a puzzle to me.

It could be something to do with the fact that grounding 1 side forces the coil (Grenade) into ¼ wave resonance, while shorting/grounding both side forces it into ½ wave resonance.
But in my mind its still stays the same base frequency 

Not sure what you mean by  "your scope reading are close to what mine are. Mine are around 19Khz for the grenade," as my scope readings should show 1.2Mhz/600KHz for the grenade LC/Standing wave.


Vasik,

normally i have my SA set at 0 to 10MHz so to catch higer frequency peaks, but its worth to double check using that latest video.


Itsu 
   

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I redid a few tests now carefully monitoring my SA (range 0 - 8MHz) for peaks.


First test was the FFT test (GCT.pdf) which grounds both coil leads and forces the Grenade into ½ wave resonance and uses (as i understand) a sine wave which is the most cleanest.
See screenshot 1 for the SA overview, which shows only 1 peak at 613Khz

Second test was the same as above, but now using square wave which reveals more (odd) harmonics, but the first at 613Khz is still the strongest, see screenshot 2.

Third test is the ¼ wave resonance test (RK.pdf page 59) using the pulse amp. and the coil grounded at the cold side forcing it into ¼ wave resonance.
Here we see in screenshot 3 again the first peak at 613KHz, but the 2th peak at 1.24MHz is stronger.


So can i conclude from this that the 3th test shows we have the strongest real standing wave resonance peak at 1.24Mhz which is pretty close to the 1.2Mhz LC resonance we seen before?
If so, still the question why half the calculated frequency?

Itsu
   

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Itsu,

If so, still the question why half the calculated frequency?

I understand it this way.
Transition line resonance (or wave resonance as I call it) formed when we have interference of signal traveling forth and reflected back. Reflection happen on the points where "media" properties change (e.g. end of wire). Speed of signal depends on "media" properties. From the theory impedance Z=Sqr(L/C) and velocity V=Z/L (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line, real physics hidden under tons of math as usual nowadays, but anyway).
So in case of gradient coil, in the area of reverse turns we obviously have different turn-to-turn capacity (it is bigger).
This create reflections and also cause wave going slower. So it is expected that this coil will have lower wave resonance then regular coil.
It is also explains why using ferrite here is a bad idea. It will create additional reflections and make all coil even more nonlinear.
I hope it make some sense.

What is still not clear for me is will this coil work ok or not. May be with thiner wire (1.5 vs 2.5mm) we need use shorter coil 37.5m, so that resonance will higher and it will be easier make matching Tesla coil ?

Vasik

PS I was looking for 2.5mm wire and surprisingly it is difficult to find. All sold for RuslanK devices ? :)
« Last Edit: 2021-04-17, 07:28:44 by Vasik041 »


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Thanks Vasik,   


I understand what you are saying, it must be something like that.

I too was looking for 2.5mm (5mm²) wire, but normal sizes are 1.5, 2.5, 4, 6, 10 etc mm², not 5mm²

The closest i could find was 10 AWG wire (2.58mm  /  5.26mm²).

Itsu 
   

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Verpies:  Have any of the above methods being known to provide for self running???  If not, then yes, IT IS better... and we need to confirm that.
No but Vasik041 did not mention anything about self-running. He just mentioned when the TL & LC resonances intersect then the coil is supposed to have High Q and resonate better.  See below:

It is seen as Q factor increase.
Coil resonate better.
   

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Thanks Vasik,   
I understand what you are saying, it must be something like that.
I too was looking for 2.5mm (5mm²) wire, but normal sizes are 1.5, 2.5, 4, 6, 10 etc mm², not 5mm²
The closest i could find was 10 AWG wire (2.58mm  /  5.26mm²).
Itsu

Itsu,

You mentioned wire diameters and it make me think is it actually diameter or cross section ?
I found this PDF, there is for example 4160500 wire (page 6), 2.5mm sq. 4mm insulation diameter, isn't it what we are looking for ?

Vasik


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I found this PDF, there is for example 4160500 wire (page 6), 2.5mm sq. 4mm insulation diameter, isn't it what we are looking for ?
I don't think wire specifications include the thickness of the insulation, ...although the type and thickness of the insulation greatly affects the interturn capacitance and Q of coils.  Turn spacing, too.
   

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Itsu,

You mentioned wire diameters and it make me think is it actually diameter or cross section ?
I found this PDF, there is for example 4160500 wire (page 6), 2.5mm sq. 4mm insulation diameter, isn't it what we are looking for ?

Vasik

Well, i understood that Stalker used a caliper to measure the copper wire to be 2.5mm   which would be 5mm².

Itsu
   

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Well, i understood that Stalker used a caliper to measure the copper wire to be 2.5mm   which would be 5mm².

Itsu

Yes, that what I also understood.
Most probably he use some wire manufactured in Russia, there might be no exact match to "Western world" standards.

Since wire is multi thread wire, could it be that diameter does not correspond to cross section with pi R^2 formula ?

Vasik


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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There were questions about device operation principle.
I made short summary from one of the videos.
Hope it helps with understanding and debugging.

Vasik


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Vasik,

thanks for the translation / video on the Principles Of Operation of such a device.
Thats how i understood it suppose to work.



I have put Stalkers wire (presumably) and my wire (both from Lapp) specs together in below pictures.

That would mean that our copper wire is the same (2.5mm² = 1.78mm), but the insulations differ (mine 3.4mm, stalker 4mm).

But Stalker is using 2.5mm diameter in the calculator see post #125 / 126 here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90873#msg90873

So things do not add up this way.


Itsu
   

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Itsu,

I am browsing my archive and I see that on Alexev's schematics specified H07V-K 2.5mm sq. wire.
But at same time there is a picture of 10AWG wire bobbin.
But insulation/outer wire diameter never specified.
I think if you use 3.4 vs 4mm that will give significantly more capacitance. That could be why you see different (lower) frequencies.
My current guess that both wires should work.
I will do more search, perhaps I can find something more.

Vasik

PS http://www.lietkabelis.lt/en/cable-specific/h07v-k-25
Cross-sectional area ofcores, mm²    2.5
Overall diameter of cables, mm            3.55
Radial thickness of insuliation, mm    0.8



« Last Edit: 2021-04-17, 17:45:24 by Vasik041 »


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Itsu,

I am browsing my archive and I see that on Alexev's schematics specified H07V-K 2.5mm sq. wire.
But at same time there is a picture of 10AWG wire bobbin.
But insulation/outer wire diameter never specified.
I think if you use 3.4 vs 4mm that will give significantly more capacitance. That could be why you see different (lower) frequencies.
My current guess that both wires should work.
I will do more search, perhaps I can find something more.

Vasik

Guy's

It is multi-stranded (200) tinned copper wire with a silicon rubber insulation.

You can buy it on Amazon.

You can buy me a beer :)

Regards

Mike 8)

Mike



---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Found information about wire Sergey Stalker using in youtube comments


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
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