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OverUnity Research > Benches > AlienGrey (Moderator: AlienGrey) > Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench
2021-12-05, 05:06:52
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 74891 times)
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img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #300 on: 2021-04-29, 14:59:28 »

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I received the ordered PCB's for the PushPull / Transistor Kacher driver circuit, given by Vasik here:  https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91026#msg91026 






The diagram in the S1.pdf shows the TC connection (Tesla Coil i guess) to the Transistor Kacher driver part in red circles, and a MOSFET driver connection to an optional Kacher MOSFET driver circuit at the red arrow.




Itsu
« Last Edit: 2021-05-03, 21:36:34 by Itsu »
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #301 on: 2021-04-29, 15:10:51 »

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Here drawing with values.
Should be easier to assemble board.

Vasik

Edit: I changed few values from the original, e.g. capacitors 4.7uF -> 100uF
Edit 2: from my experience adding 0.1uF from pin 4 TL494 to ground makes it work more stable
Edit 3: and part list


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #302 on: 2021-04-29, 15:32:08 »

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In case somebody interested I can share similar boards (for experiments):
1. Push pull TL494 + 2 x TC4420 + 2 MOSFETs
2. Half bridge TL494 + IR2110 + 2 MOSFETs
3. Tesla coil PLL 4046 + TC4420 + MOSFET

Vasik


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #303 on: 2021-04-29, 15:51:58 »

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   Thanks for your offers on the boards, Vasik. I may take you up on it. Especially if itsu shows some positive results therefrom.
   You have done an amazing amount of work with this project. Probably more than all the other guys all put together.
   I am waiting to see how well your circuit deals with the heat on the push pull's fets, on the grenade coil, as well as some of the other components.
As I found that to be a problem, at resonance, with my replications.
   Thanks, again.
   Hoping for the best to both of you.

   NickZ
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #304 on: 2021-04-29, 16:06:41 »

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Thanks Vasik,

good to know,  but can you share "similar boards" meaning the Gerber files or the real boards?




I did some resonance tests following the PP.pdf and the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObQFTTJimuI

Seems my new Grenade when shorted/grounded resonates around 1.220MHz (1st) and 5.6MHz (2nd).


Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #305 on: 2021-04-29, 16:31:22 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-29, 16:06:41
Thanks Vasik,
good to know,  but can you share "similar boards" meaning the Gerber files or the real boards?

I mean gerber files.
Everyone can then order boards from convenient manufacturer e.g. from itead.cc
I have some unused boards, but sending them will cost probably more than order a bunch of new ones.

Vasik


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #306 on: 2021-04-29, 16:48:07 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-29, 16:06:41
Seems my new Grenade when shorted/grounded resonates around 1.220MHz (1st) and 5.6MHz (2nd).
Itsu

Itsu,

I think this is great news :) you got two resonances similar to Sergey's example.
Have you tried test with fluorescent lamp ? can you stop "stripes" ?
Does the coil heats up ?

Vasik


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #307 on: 2021-04-29, 20:24:32 »

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Silly question but what difference will yet another driver board do, the others dont ?
Has any one got a device working and generating the wave forms in the example ?

SIL
« Last Edit: 2021-04-29, 21:11:18 by AlienGrey »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #308 on: 2021-04-29, 21:12:21 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-04-29, 16:31:22
I mean gerber files.
Everyone can then order boards from convenient manufacturer e.g. from itead.cc
I have some unused boards, but sending them will cost probably more than order a bunch of new ones.

Vasik

Ok,  gerber files are the best option so anyone can order PCB's for them selves, agreed.


Quote
Itsu,

I think this is great news :) you got two resonances similar to Sergey's example.
Have you tried test with fluorescent lamp ? can you stop "stripes" ?
Does the coil heats up ?

Vasik


Yes, it seems similar as Stalker's tests, just a little bit higher in frequency

Will do some further testing tomorrow, no heating up of the coil detected tough.

Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #309 on: 2021-04-29, 21:48:38 »

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I did some quick test using the pulse amp and was able to get the fluro lamp rings visible and stopping at some frequency points (1.216Mhz and 1.9MHz).

But the rings (and fluro lamp) are not that bright, and changing the distance to the coil has influence too.

Ground lead of the coil was grounded to the house ground.

Afterwards, there was some 4 to 5 °C increase along the coil above ambient especially on the layer 6 part.

Will do some further tests tomorrow.

Itsu 
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #310 on: 2021-04-30, 05:03:10 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-04-29, 21:48:38
I did some quick test using the pulse amp and was able to get the fluro lamp rings visible and stopping at some frequency points (1.216Mhz and 1.9MHz).

But the rings (and fluro lamp) are not that bright, and changing the distance to the coil has influence too.

Ground lead of the coil was grounded to the house ground.

Afterwards, there was some 4 to 5 °C increase along the coil above ambient especially on the layer 6 part.

Will do some further tests tomorrow.

Itsu

 O0


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #311 on: 2021-04-30, 10:36:03 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-28, 22:15:57
40kHz, 100kHz, 140kHz, 280kHz  ...and possibly multiples of these frequencies.
Verpies Hi

I don't suppose you could dig up any wave form simulations of the prosess in a real time demonstration
to show what is expected?

However you did show a 90 deg phase shift demo in early OU pages.

Regards SIL
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #312 on: 2021-04-30, 11:14:39 »

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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-04-30, 10:36:03
I don't suppose you could dig up any wave form simulations of the prosess in a real time demonstration
to show what is expected?
I can dig up a simulator but not a simulation.

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-04-30, 10:36:03
However you did show a 90 deg phase shift demo in early OU pages.
A phase shift will occur any time an AC current flows in an inductance or capacitance.
When you ask about phase shift, between what two objects is it?
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #313 on: 2021-04-30, 12:30:00 »

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Here some entertainment for your weekend meditation.
Kapanadze effect or alternative explanation how these systems work.

Have fun,
Vasik


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #314 on: 2021-04-30, 12:36:49 »

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[
Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-30, 11:14:39
I can dig up a simulator but not a simulation.
A phase shift will occur any time an AC current flows in an inductance or capacitance.
When you ask about phase shift, between what two objects is it?
Hi yes I’m aware of that phenomena but as your the professor here would it be in order to ask what criteria would have to be in place
Mathematically formula, and or practical to achieve a stable 90 degree phase shift ?
other than using logic for the shift and an op-amp for the modulation  >:-)

Regards SIL
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #315 on: 2021-04-30, 19:10:15 »

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Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021-04-30, 12:36:49
[ Hi yes I’m aware of that phenomena but as your the professor here would it be in order to ask what criteria would have to be in place
Mathematically formula, and or practical to achieve a stable 90 degree phase shift ?
other than using logic for the shift and an op-amp for the modulation  >:-)
Look, we cannot even begin talking about a phase shift until you define the two objects between which the phase shift occurs, which you are interested in.
The math formulas for LC phase shifts are trivial but I must know what to apply them to.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #316 on: 2021-04-30, 20:39:04 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-04-30, 19:10:15
Look, we cannot even begin talking about a phase shift until you define the two objects between which the phase shift occurs, which you are interested in.
The math formulas for LC phase shifts are trivial but I must know what to apply them to.
Verpies hi; Well that’s a difficult question to answerer as I am working backwards from the push pull through the .470nf cap to the grenade when it becomes a little puzzling
how the standing wave is generated and then there is the two tesla coils one that stands alone and the other called the katcher
Which I assume the two tesla coils produce a low frequency and harmonics, confusing isn't it.

Regards S\IL
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #317 on: 2021-04-30, 21:26:02 »

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I redid the measurements from yesterday now on video.

Ambient temperature at the start is 18.3°C also across the Grenade.
Temperature across the Grenade at the end is around 21°C so a slight increase of 2.7°C but probably due to the 10 a 12W being supplied into this coil.

Using the pulse amp. from Stalker feeding with the FG with a pulse, 71 - 73% duty cycle and 10Vpp DC, starting around 1.2MHz.

I have 12V on the pulse amp. logic from a PS and 12.5V (~1A) from a battery being switched into the exciting coil.

Measuring with the HV probe the drain of the MOSFET

The Grenade is grounded to house ground with its cold end and open on its hot end.

Finding max. LC resonance (around 1.22MHz) with max peak drain signals.
Then looking for Wave resonance using the fluorescent lamp rings.

They merge around 1.22Mhz, but there also is a strong merge point at 2MHz.

Video here: https://youtu.be/KG03TiJXXdE

Next is to find/test the push pull frequency and lateron the Kacher frequency.

Regards Itsu
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #318 on: 2021-05-01, 18:21:49 »

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So what is the going theory about the moving striations in the fluorescent tube?
The wavelength of a 1.22MHz or 2MHz RF standing wave in the Stalker's coil is way too long to explain these striations which are centimetres apart, ...even if the velocity factor in that coil were 10% c.

Is it being explained the same way as the striations in the positive column of a gas discharge ?

@Itsu:
Does a fluorescent tube* of a different diameter and length show the same striations spacing and movement ?

*... or a "neon sign" tube with a different gas composition.

« Last Edit: 2021-05-01, 19:12:28 by verpies »
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #319 on: 2021-05-01, 18:40:51 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
It would be of benefit to many in my opinion if someone came forward to explain the fundamentals of this and related projects in general, and as a whole. I'm not certain if anyone here knows the theory of operation, but if they do, I haven't seen evidence of it.

Perhaps this project would progress more smoothly and more quickly if all were on the same page. For myself, I can't offer much input otherwise.

A comprehensive block diagram, and explanation of the function and purpose of each block would go a long way I believe.
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #320 on: 2021-05-01, 20:30:51 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2021-05-01, 18:21:49
So what is the going theory about the moving striations in the fluorescent tube?
The wavelength of a 1.22MHz or 2MHz RF standing wave in the Stalker's coil is way too long to explain these striations which are centimetres apart, ...even if the velocity factor in that coil were 10% c.

Is it being explained the same way as the striations in the positive column of a gas discharge ?

@Itsu:
Does a fluorescent tube* of a different diameter and length show the same striations spacing and movement ?

*... or a "neon sign" tube with a different gas composition.





Quote
So what is the going theory about the moving striations in the fluorescent tube?
The wavelength of a 1.22MHz or 2MHz RF standing wave in the Stalker's coil is way too long to explain these striations which are centimetres apart, ...even if the velocity factor in that coil were 10% c.

Is it being explained the same way as the striations in the positive column of a gas discharge ?

No, not the same way as i understand, in rk_ref2.pdf on page 53/54 Stalker writes:

i am schematically painted fluorescent lamp
if you have a coil, you will see a very interesting
moment that herself the lamp on it will have an
alternation more brightly luminous stripes with
more dark if it lies parallel here of this coil
what does it mean?
you catch a moment like this you can see
32:00
that these stripes are running fast
you with selection of frequency you are trying so
that these stripes stopped they stop running then
there is what we have this lamp will show us
longitudinal standing wave.

Here i understand that these rings represent/visualize the "longitudinal standing wave" created by the combination of LC resonance and wave resonance in the grenade coil.


Quote
@Itsu:
Does a fluorescent tube* of a different diameter and length show the same striations spacing and movement ?


No again, a long tube (120cm) has its rings stopped around 1.228MHz, while a shorter (60cm) tube has its rings stopped around 1.221Mhz.

But allthough the rings around the thickest part of the grenade coil are slightly off frequency for the both tubes, the pattern of rings across the whole Grenade coil (and beyond) is similar meaning stopped/almost stopped rings at the thick part, outside going rings on either ends (right direction on right side, left direction left side), see picture.


Short video here:  https://youtu.be/r7EYwsgIHmM


Itsu

« Last Edit: 2021-05-01, 21:05:22 by Itsu »
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #321 on: 2021-05-01, 20:50:50 »

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Quote from: poynt99 on 2021-05-01, 18:40:51
It would be of benefit to many in my opinion if someone came forward to explain the fundamentals of this and related projects in general, and as a whole. I'm not certain if anyone here knows the theory of operation, but if they do, I haven't seen evidence of it.

Perhaps this project would progress more smoothly and more quickly if all were on the same page. For myself, I can't offer much input otherwise.

A comprehensive block diagram, and explanation of the function and purpose of each block would go a long way I believe.

Poynt99,

have you seen Sergey's explanation ?

Vasik


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #322 on: 2021-05-01, 20:57:26 »

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These beatings usually called "fish" in OU slang and associated with proper FE process.
And frequency of beatings some how linked to the size and motion of the stripes on the fluorescent lamp.

Vasik

PS this screenshot taken from old Sergey's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzHwPDZAXnM&t=127s
He is testing gradient coil with push pull. Signal observed on a current sensor in the load circuit.

Edit: In the video Sergey show first tuned gradient coil, lamp's filament is ringing in the strong magnetic field.
Big meter showing PSU current, small - load current, he says that if coil/push pull tuned then load connection does not change PSU current and frequency. Then he de-tune system and shows that PSU current became bigger and changes with load disconnection.


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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #323 on: 2021-05-01, 22:52:04 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-01, 20:30:51
Here i understand that these rings represent/visualize the "longitudinal standing wave" created by the combination of LC resonance and wave resonance in the grenade coil.
The only longitudinal wave that can be explained by conventional science in this system are the  positive column striations  caused by the gas ions losing their energy discretely & periodically in longitudinal gas ion cascades, as the ions are accelerated by an external electric filed.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-01, 20:30:51
....the pattern of rings across the whole Grenade coil (and beyond) is similar meaning stopped/almost stopped rings at the thick part, outside going rings on either ends (right direction on right side, left direction left side), see picture.
I agree that the pattern of intensity of the gas' glow is similar and I attribute it to the amplitude of the electric field emanating from the coil.  But that is not the same as the striations spacings and their apparent motion.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-05-01, 20:30:51
No again, a long tube (120cm) has its rings stopped around 1.228MHz, while a shorter (60cm) tube has its rings stopped around 1.221Mhz.
Short video here:  https://youtu.be/r7EYwsgIHmM
That experiment does not convince me that this is not a beat between gas striation frequency and the frequency of the external electric filed from the coil, because the gas composition in the tube is the same and so is the tube's diameter.

P.S.
How do these striations react to a magnet on a stick ?
« Last Edit: 2021-05-01, 23:49:01 by verpies »
   
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Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #324 on: 2021-05-01, 23:05:18 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-05-01, 20:57:26
And frequency of beatings some how linked to the size and motion of the stripes on the fluorescent lamp.
The problem is that the spacings between the striations in the fluorescent tubes cannot be explained by the beat between the RF frequency of the TL & LC resonances alone.  The wavelengths are just too long - tens of meters vs centimeters...  and the arithmetical difference between these frequencies has even a longer wavelength.
« Last Edit: 2021-05-01, 23:49:42 by verpies »
   
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