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Author Topic: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk!  (Read 755342 times)
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It's turtles all the way down
I wish Snowden had shared the more damaging stuff.


Snowden just might be the operative for a CIA "modified limited hangout" operation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

When something is given so much attention in the media (hung out), it keeps your eye off other more important issues.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   

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Barbara Honegger gave a presentation in Seattle
in January of this year.  The video is available for
viewing/download at YouTube:

Behind the Smoke Curtain


It's a comprehensive analysis of what transpired
on 9/11 at the WTC and more importantly, at the
Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia.  Approximately
three hours but well worth the time spent.

TRUTH marches on...


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The animal mind ALWAYS reacts to what it does not understand. This is what sets dogs barking. If you are going to tell the truth, you are going to have to be okay with barking dogs, because they will harry your passage until you pass through town.
Les Visible - 27 February 2020
   
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I had a realization several years ago that God was not "all things good and just", but rather "all things: good, bad, and indifferent".  "God" is now admonished of his actions.  I discussed my "realization" with a good friend of mine and he was quite appalled.  

If there is a God-like entity or even a God-like creative force (as I believe), then the source of good/bad is the same, though the the path to each is different.

When I pray to God, believing that good will come of it.  Keep in mind, however, that I also believe that a black cloud dwells over my head!  So, I pray when I am afraid or wish for something that I cannot control, which sounds really bad.  

I consider my wife's beliefs much stronger.  She is an atheist, and believes that we are fully responsible for our destiny.  
 
God helps those who help themselves, so I think atheists will always be in his favor.  After all, praying to God, was never God's requirement.
I've become an agnostic. I believe in God but not man's fabricated religions. It comes down to the definition of God. Here's mine: everything that exists on all scales whether we know about it or not. In other words, the totality of creation, taken as a whole, is called God.

That does not mean just the physical universe. Emotions and thought exist yet they are not physical but they exist in the totality of creation.

It is humans who put the labels "good" or "bad" on things. God doesn't care, it just is. So when one prays to God, they are beseeching the totality of creation to come together in a way to assist them. Some pray for good things. Some pray for bad things. 9/11 kind of makes that point. There's no doubt that the totality of creation came together in a way that it happened. Some say it's bad and evil. Some were dancing in the streets eith joy.

God is beneficent in that the totality of creation came together in such a way that we exist. God is also destructive to us but is that in some way beneficent to the universe? Don't know. I guess that depends on ones view of life. Some believe life to be good and promoted above all else. Some believe life to be bad and to be controlled or destroyed. And that control, IMO, is the basis of most religions.

When you take the position that the totality of creation is God, it's somewhat difficult to deny the existence of God. How about running that by your wife Grumpy? I truly am interested in her response.

Another answer I would like to hear is about her belief that we are fully responsible for our destiny. When one starts looking at the interplay between the geophysics of the earth and the moon and the sun and the universe at large it seems to be that we actually have very little to do with our destiny other than the next few minutes. Think of the recent ateroid explosion over Russia.

I'm not being facetious and, I hope, not argumentative. I really am interested in her replies because I don't know anyone who is an atheist.
 
   
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Thank God for the 9/11.
Don't forget that in a theory of the existence of an omniscient and omnipotent being, all events are predicted by this being, all events can be prevented by this being and so, all events are the result of the willingness of the being.
      Well, what about human free will?   Karma?   If you have an explanation for that, then what about Isaiah 45:7?   Hint(paraphrased): "God makes good and evil.   God does all these things."
Quote
So no need of a conspiracy theory, it's obvious that God is the instigator of 9/11.
 >:-)
      Isaiah 45:7, above.   You might be right, but a man can do the work of the devil, too.

Did I mention it yet on this site?   A friend, a few years ago, indicated in conjunction with the work he did for the Gov't and his high security clearance, that he heard there was a warning that something was going to happen to the WTC in three days from the date of the warning.   THAT could have been anything.   He and his associates had nothing to do; nothing to go on.   Anything is anything.   They waited until the planes hit the buildings.
       It didn't bother him too much because there was nothing he could do.

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2013-08-17, 21:45:06 by the_big_m_in_ok »


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"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
If one replaces the term God with resonance then we see the application of man's thinking and what he receives, he deserves. Comradery versus chaos. humans do this every moment of their being. Some just have a nasty affection for discourse while others do not. Whom is the wiser? I ask.


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If one replaces the term God with resonance then we see the application of man's thinking and what he receives, he deserves.
      I don't have a strong liking for a male-oriented, anthropomorphic "God" that might or might not be contained in the observable universe.   What lies beyond the blackness of Space is more to my liking as a "God", even if it might be nothing at all, physically.
As for 'what a man receives, he deserves'?
       Apparently good people have bad things happen to them.   On the other hand, karma for one's negative actions cannot be avoided, I was told by a spiritual teacher I knew years ago.
Quote
Comradery versus chaos. humans do this every moment of their being. Some just have a nasty affection for discourse while others do not. Whom is the wiser? I ask.
      I can learn on my own without physical discourse.   Here's my answer to, "Whom is the wiser?"  :  I don't know.   I don't have all the finite and/or infinite answers (assuming infinite "answers" exist.

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2013-08-26, 03:08:52 by the_big_m_in_ok »


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
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Well after browsing through youtube video's,i came across Steve's thermite dust particle video's.
I never knew you were that involved with this Steve,and it seemd that it came a great cost to your self.

I am supprised that there was no mention of air preasure,in relation to the collaps speed near G-well not that i seen anyway.This being in reguards to the two towers.We can see the preasure build up floors below as each floor collapsed.So either the preasure build up was the result of air between collapsing floors being compressed,or explosives going off.
If it was air preasure build up,then the towers would not have fallen that close to the speed of G.It would have been more like rideing a whole lot of woopy cushions to the ground.

There is so much hard evidence that it was an inside job,it's not funny.

Steve-you have shown how far you are willing to go ,to get to the truth. And for that,you have my deepest respect.
   
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This video was probably already posted,but i didn't watch all the links to video's throughout the thread.
But it is a pretty good 5 minute summery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opzm3bRgrUQ
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Watch "9/11 The Great American Psy Opera" by Ace Baker

He is a very talented musician and video production geek.

A few pieces of pertinent info I have not seen before.

Steve Jones has a large segment in one of the chapters.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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@ION
Downloading that file now-cheers

I was reading in the thread,that some were saying there were no plane's. I had a laugh at this first of,but as all good researchers would do,i started looking into the possibility. What i found was some very convincing arguments to support this.

I will be putting together some video Short's,to show just how easily this could look real.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04LCvk2KYfY
   
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TinMan
No Planes?,well I was not that far away from the events that Day  so I did not personally see the Impacts
 However I know of hundreds of men {iron workers] all over the city that watched the second plane go thru the Building

As you know I did sructural testing in those towers on a regular basis [For the port authority],And was invited to Run a magnesium Lance after the 93 Bombing [they were afraid of vibrations VERY SCARY STUFF}

As a result of my life experience there I have a different take on what happened and why.
Suffice to Say "follow the money trail ".

Thx
Chet
   
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@Chet
Well the more i look into this,the more interesting it get's. Seems no one (other than obvious plants) has come forward and said they actualy saw the second plane hit.
One guy is offering $100 000 dollars to anyone other than news crews,who have a video of the second plane hitting the tower. To this day,no one has come forward.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Whether or not real planes hit the towers is still open to investigation. The video I referenced by Ace Baker shows that in the case of the TV image shot from the helicopter, the video has normal helicopter vibration, the plane inserted into the video does not. These two can be easily separated out with software available today.

Testimony of many people about planes only occurred after the idea was inserted into their minds by the media. Numerous people that witnessed the explosions did not see or hear any planes.

I was a huge skeptic to the "no planes theory" until I saw Ace Bakers excellent investigative work. A "must watch" for all.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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TinMan
100,000.00 Bucks Huh
I had no idea?

I think I would call the Guy offering the money first [a link ?].

Telling some of these guys that sat and watched the second plane hit from the Morgan Stanley Jobsite accross the river in Hoboken New Jersey,that they were telling stories out of school would be a hard thing to do...........
 I spoke with Many Men who watched from rooftops all over the city ,However Those fellows in Hoboken had front row seats
they also reported seeing some other fellows on a pier with in their view jumping for joy as the towers collapsed ,I believe a police report was made on those fellows.

However if the money offer is real I'm quite sure they would take it [probably donate it to the victims fund].

Gotta Number??

I must add on the day of the attack ,I was in the truck listening to a fellow who was a regular radio morning host in NYC area  being interviewed from his Balcony close to the 1st Burning tower................and right in the middle of his interview he started talking about another aircraft getting very close and then He was stupified as he broadcast another "hit" from a plane...."" live as it happened"" from his penthouse?
He just hung up the phone shortly after .
up until that moment no one knew what was going on at the towers [fire ,Bomb etc etc ]


Thx
Chet
« Last Edit: 2013-09-29, 22:50:53 by ramset »
   
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As for how many planes, we have to ask what about the people that died, that were 'suppose' to be on those planes. :-\
If it was a false flag, the passengers could have been made up, and who would know any better. Or if only one plane, I would have to say that there were 'enough witnesses around' at the time after the first plane, we would have heard a lot about that initially.

Mags
   
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@Chet
Take a look at the video clip below. Now if this crash was on the news,and presented as being real-every one would believe it,as it was on the news.But because we know it is only a movie,we also know that it never happened.
But it looks soooo real-dosnt it.Every single video of the second plane crash,was filmed by news crews-no armature video's have ever been forth coming. The offer is $100 000.00 for an armature video of the second plane crash-not talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THyUerkrBuU

Oh remember the war of the worlds broadcast on the radio in 1938. It was just Orson Welles play that was broadcast on the radio,but many thought that the world was actually under attack by martions lol.
Its so easy to get the people to believe,as that's what they want to believe.
   

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tExB=qr
If you figure that our governments technology is 50 years ahead of what we see publicly, then it is easy to see that planes could have been flown remotely, or even autonomously.  A big trend in the aircraft industry right now is smaller aircraft that are manned or unmanned, providing the option depending on the mission.

While it is interesting to theorize and even prove that towers fell from controlled demolition, the more pressing questions is "what was gained?".

Side note:

there's been a rash of freak shootings lately
   
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Here is what is suppose to be an unmolested video from a member of the public. But listen very closely from 8 second to 13 seconds(on youtube clock,not video clock)Now how dose an unmolested video recording have edited voice recording,when the video itself keeps on playing smoothly? Also note the guy in front of the camera is staring straight at the incoming plane,but says nothing-just stands there looking. There is no reaction at all from any one,until the explosion. One woman even says she could see the plane coming-but says nothing???.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZXgJ40iWAc
   
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Mags
Quote
As for how many planes, we have to ask what about the people that died, that were 'suppose' to be on those planes

------------------------
Mags I thought the same thing for quite some time ,one thing we saw happen recently is the unveiling of the memorial at ground Zero with all the names of the plane crash victims!

I did happen to hear a news clip of the ceremony where families of people lost on the plane that hit the tower were being interviewed  [audio only I was listening on the radio ]

Of one thing I am quite certain,The planes and thier passengers would be easy pickings for a true investigation by someone who could interview family members and uncover a scam ,in this day and age that story would be worth a lot of money and hard to suppress.
The family members of the dc  site would be interesting ,as no one saw that very unusual "plane crash"

Thx
Chet
   

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tExB=qr
   

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Buy me some coffee
What on earth is burning in those towers, black smoke :o
   

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I'm sure there will be more wonderfully executed events in the future.


The best service we can do for ourselves is to continue to search for answers and to find ways to be self-efficient.
   

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Buy me some coffee
The way i see it is every corporation is in business to make money, profits comes first so forget about the state of the world and the damage being done.

The way around this is that we need people to start non for profit organizations that do the same function, run by the people for the world, cut the huge stealing of wealth and pass it back to the average person.

Forget management, make every person equally responsible within the organization, with a priority for sustainability.

I would start by setting up a Cooperative growing Hemp, start a sustainable paper factory, clothing factory, there's so many things that hemp can be used for, why do you think prohibition was introduced against cannabis, it threatens profits in the large conglomerates.

The importance of doing this has already been shown, prohibition was cancelled during the second world war for very good reason.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
If you think about it, large corporations e.g. Microsoft charge outrageous prices for operating systems and software full of bugs. How many iterations did it take for them to get Windows stable?

Then the poor users suffer nervous breakdowns trying to keep the stuff running, it creates tensions etc in many households and businesses.

Then Bill Gates (and the like) puts a halo on his head and becomes a benefactor, giving back some of the pillage he overcharged for in the beginning, software and operating systems only worth about $5 to start with, if that.

Most large corporations, after raping the public, set up foundations to give some of the ill gotten gains back to the victims of their greed.

Why not just charge a very reasonable price for the stuff at the outset, enjoy lower profits and then no need to feel guilty and set up foundations to soothe the wounds of the victims and ease the conscience of the capitalists?

I hope Linux chips away at the megalith.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   

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tExB=qr
One of the reasons that the board wants Bill out as CEO is that MS does not give enough back to investors.
   
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