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Author Topic: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk!  (Read 755110 times)

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911 2nd plane Pinocchio's NOSE emerges undamaged on the other side of Tower.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1GYKimWHdM

I stood in the NAFFI at around 10am ish on September 11th 2001 amongst a large crowd of soldiers watching this clip play over and over again on the big screen. I had just finished morning class of the Airframes and Engines course, studying to become an Aircraft Technician in the British Army. This was the very first image of the terrorist attacks that I saw and remains with me vividly until this day.

An airplane nose cone structure would never penetrate through that building, it is a crumple zone filled with magic black boxes. Therefore the image I was being shown repetitively, almost hypnotically, must be false as it violates the known laws of physics. That is when I knew something was wrong with the information I was being presented with, and the collapse of WTC7 via controlled demolition later that evening, became the icing on the cake. I knew I was being lied to, and that that lie was prepared well in advance of it's delivery.

Those were my two big questions at the end of day one, Pinocchio's NOSE and WTC7's collapse, they were the things that stood out that forced me to question how I was interpreting what I was seeing and hearing that day.

Thirteen years on enough time has passed for the momentary shock trauma to dissipate from my mind, I see those events clearly now.



Pinocchio's NOSE event:

It is impossible for an airplane nosecone to penetrate completely through WTC2, intact and with no elastic or plastic deformation.

It is possible for a CGI overlay of the Pinocchio's NOSE event to be offset in human error, working under extreme pressure.

Conclusion:

Unclear.

Weak proof.

Probability of accuracy 0%.



WTC7 event:

It is impossible for WTC7 to collapse into it's own footprint at freefall speed if the prime mover of the event is a small localised regular fire.

It is possible for WTC7 to collapse into it's own footprint at freefall speed if the prime mover of the event is controlled demolition technology, timed to sever all super-structure load bearing members simultaneously, therefore insuring an implosion event occurs.

Conclusion:

Clear.

Incontestable proof.

Probability of accuracy 100%.

« Last Edit: 2014-09-29, 18:02:47 by evolvingape »


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The nose cone has the radar antenna inside, here is a report of a 757 collision with the nose cone

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339139/Was-bird-A-Plane-Or-UFO--Chinese-passenger-jet-hits-mysterious-object-26-000ft-lands-severely-dented-nose-cone.html

regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Linda Rivera, New York, USA, 3 years ago

America is broke. We have no money to fight ANY wars. Trillions of dollars are being printed out of thin air guaranteeing out of control inflation. Experts warn we face a Depression greater than the Great Depression. Al-Qaeda are part of the rebels in Libya. Why is US/NATO waging war to bring Al-Qaeda to power?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001778/Libya-war-costs-US-taxpayers-2m-day-Gaddafi.html#ixzz3Ejns21Vo

Tensions with Britain as Gates rebukes UK government over suggestion Gaddafi could be assassinated
French propose a new political 'committee' to oversee operations
Germany pulls equipment out of NATO coalition over disagreement over campaign's direction
Italians accuse French of backing NATO in exchange for oil contracts
No-fly zone called into question after first wave of strikes 'neutralises' Libyan military machine
U.K. ministers say war could last '30 years'
Italy to 'take back control' of bases used by allies unless NATO leadership put in charge of the mission
Russians tell U.S. to stop bombing in order to protect civilians - calls bombing a 'crusade'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368693/Libya-war-Germans-pull-forces-NATO-Libyan-coalition-falls-apart.html



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Obama says US 'underestimated' rise of ISIS, admits 'contradictory' Syria policy

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/29/us-misjudged-iraqi-army-isis-threat-obama-says/

You Do Realize that the U.S. Funded and Trained ISIS, Right?

http://www.dailypaul.com/324900/you-do-realize-that-the-us-funded-and-trained-isis-right

Creating a State of Perpetual War: ‘US Funded and Trained Jihadists in Syria – and Now it Wants to Fight Them’

http://www.globalresearch.ca/creating-a-state-of-perpetual-war-us-funded-and-trained-jihadists-in-syria-and-now-it-wants-to-fight-them/5404813


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I just realised why the need is only for 6 Tornado's, flushing game requires no more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2770171/Six-RAF-Tornados-lead-blitz-against-ISIS-just-hours-Parliamentary-vote-got-war-militants.html

Gaddafi's last words were 'Do you know right from wrong?'

France announces end of Nato airstrikes as 'mission is complete'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051361/GADDAFI-DEAD-VIDEO-Dictator-begs-life-summary-execution.html


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I can only see the Google cache of this article, but it mentions that war in Europe is an option:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HJazvTu53WYJ:www.4thmedia.org/2014/08/russia-iran-syria-ukraine-china-etc-its-all-about-the-collapse-of-us-dollar-dominance/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

“American colleagues at the Pentagon told me, unequivocally, that the US and UK never would allow European – Soviet relations to develop to such a degree that they would challenge the US/UK’s political, economic or military primacy and hegemony on the European continent. Such a development will be prevented by all necessary means, if necessary by provoking a war in central Europe”.

Nice explanation of the petrodollar too.
   

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Grumpy,

Your quotation demonstrates very poignantly the level
of ruthlessness in the minds of those who are in control
of the Western World.  It may be that those of the Eastern
World are in cahoots;  we'll find out soon enough.

The people of the Continent mean nothing to those elites
who crave power over all.  Bloodshed and destruction to
them are like game.  The 'grand chess match.'

Prophecy tells us that the Great City will come down very
quickly, shockingly quickly, in its due time.  The CITY OF
LONDON is the headquarters of great evil.


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The animal mind ALWAYS reacts to what it does not understand. This is what sets dogs barking. If you are going to tell the truth, you are going to have to be okay with barking dogs, because they will harry your passage until you pass through town.
Les Visible - 27 February 2020
   

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Grumpy,

Your quotation demonstrates very poignantly the level
of ruthlessness in the minds of those who are in control
of the Western World.  It may be that those of the Eastern
World are in cahoots;  we'll find out soon enough.

The people of the Continent mean nothing to those elites
who crave power over all.  Bloodshed and destruction to
them are like game.  The 'grand chess match.'

Prophecy tells us that the Great City will come down very
quickly, shockingly quickly, in its due time.  The CITY OF
LONDON is the headquarters of great evil.

Yes. Power over all is their goal, and I think that rabbit hole is far deeper and more sinister than we realize.

I've always taken references the the "great city" to mean "New York City".  I have found predictions/prophecies that say an asteroid will hit in the Atlantic Ocean, and wipe out the city, and others that say a nuke does the trick.  Either way, NY is supposed to be wiped out.
   

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Extremists to have Facebook and Twitter vetted by anti-terror police

Theresa May to announce new Extremist Disruption Orders to strengthen counter-terrorism if the Tories win the next general election

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11129474/Extremists-to-have-Facebook-and-Twitter-vetted-by-anti-terror-police.html

The new orders will be part of the Government’s “Prevent” strategy, which tackles the ideology behind the terrorist threat. So-called hate preachers, who currently stay just within terrorism legislation, will be one of the targets of banning orders and Extremism Disruption Orders (EDOs).

EDOs would apply if a judge is convinced that an individual is carrying out their activities for “the purpose of overthrowing democracy”.

It appears that freedom of speech used to point out the establishment's many previous and current war crimes, is soon to be a terrorist offence in the UK.



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Saudi Prince: War Against ISIS Really About Removing al-Assad

http://www.arabworld360.info/2014/09/saudi-prince-war-against-isis-really.html

An interesting current events video with relevant facts.


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Quote from: Grumpy
I've always taken references the the "great city" to mean "New York City".  I have found predictions/prophecies that say an asteroid will hit in the Atlantic Ocean, and wipe out the city, and others that say a nuke does the trick.  Either way, NY is supposed to be wiped out.

New York City certainly has become an appendage of THE
CITY OF LONDON and is clearly under its control.  The Square
Mile has a much longer history of mischief and devised the
method of state control much used today through the CITY
OF LONDON Parish Fictions.  This critical knowledge has nearly
been totally excised from the record - very hard to find any-
thing about it.


---------------------------
The animal mind ALWAYS reacts to what it does not understand. This is what sets dogs barking. If you are going to tell the truth, you are going to have to be okay with barking dogs, because they will harry your passage until you pass through town.
Les Visible - 27 February 2020
   

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The Fake Terror Threat Used To Justify Bombing Syria

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/28/u-s-officials-invented-terror-group-justify-bombing-syria/

As the Obama Administration prepared to bomb Syria without congressional or U.N. authorization, it faced two problems. The first was the difficulty of sustaining public support for a new years-long war against ISIS, a group that clearly posed no imminent threat to the “homeland.” A second was the lack of legal justification for launching a new bombing campaign with no viable claim of self-defense or U.N. approval.

The solution to both problems was found in the wholesale concoction of a brand new terror threat that was branded “The Khorasan Group.” After spending weeks depicting ISIS as an unprecedented threat — too radical even for Al Qaeda! — administration officials suddenly began spoon-feeding their favorite media organizations and national security journalists tales of a secret group that was even scarier and more threatening than ISIS, one that posed a direct and immediate threat to the American Homeland. Seemingly out of nowhere, a new terror group was created in media lore.


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How Obama came to launch strikes in Syria

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/23/politics/obama-syria-strikes-policy/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

New York (CNN) -- President Barack Obama's policy toward Syria -- three years of red lines and calls for regime change -- culminated Monday in a barrage of airstrikes on terror targets there, marking a turning point for the conflict and thrusting the President further into it.

The U.S. said Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain and Jordan had joined in the attack on ISIS targets near Raqqa in Syria. The U.S. also launched airstrikes against another terrorist organization, the Khorasan Group. Obama described its members as "seasoned al Qaeda operatives in Syria," and U.S. officials said the group was plotting attacks against the United States and other Western targets.

Initially hesitant to become involved in the Syrian conflict, which pits an authoritarian regime led by President Bashar al-Assad against a patchwork of rebel groups, Obama has moved from sending weapons to opposition fighters last year, to backing away from airstrikes against al-Assad, to ordering Monday¹s campaign to take out ISIS terrorists who have used the Syrian unrest to gain a foothold.

Regime change is illegal: end of debate

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3616571/Regime-change-is-illegal-end-of-debate.html



'I would never do anything against the advice of the Attorney General," the Prime Minister has repeatedly insisted. Yet he did do something against the Attorney General's advice. He helped the Americans invade Iraq and replace its Ba'athist regime.

Lord Goldsmith's confidential advice to the Prime Minister on the legality of invading Iraq without a second UN resolution, revealed for the first time last week, was equivocal about almost everything. It was clear about one point and one point only: "Regime change," insisted the Attorney General, "cannot be the object of military action." Any invasion which had that goal would be unambiguously illegal under international law.

As everyone knows now, and knew perfectly well then, the whole point of the invasion of Iraq was regime change. President Bush said so with Tony Blair standing by his side. At the joint press conference the two leaders gave at George Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, on April 6, 2002, he helpfully summed up the purpose of the military action against Iraq in a single sentence: "We support regime change." For George Bush, no further elaboration was necessary.

Despite Mr Blair's statement that "If I had not taken the action I did, Saddam would still be in power," it was not he, but President Bush who removed Saddam. Tony Blair was an accessory to the American invasion - but British forces were so small a part of it that they were not critical to its success. As President Bush emphasised, the Americans were prepared to go it alone without Tony Blair and Britain's armed forces. Two weeks before the invasion started, he offered to do precisely that, as he saw the enormous political difficulties the Prime Minister faced in getting Parliamentary approval for the war. Tony Blair rejected the offer. "I said I'm with you and I mean it," he insisted.

Last week, most of the discussion of the Attorney General's advice centred on whether it was "arguable" that the invasion would be legal without a second UN resolution explicitly authorising it. Yet when compared with the glaring illegality of an invasion whose explicit purpose was regime change, this is a non-issue. The Prime Minister knew it, the Attorney General knew it, the Cabinet knew it, and so did anyone who bothered to think about it. What, then, was Tony Blair doing when he stated: "What is important is that whatever action we take is done in accordance with international law"?

President Bush never wavered in his conviction that regime change was the main purpose of the invasion. He was not interested in a second resolution from the UN - he was not really interested in the question of whether America's action was in accordance with "international law". It was the Prime Minister who persuaded him to try to get a second resolution from the Security Council explicitly authorising war. President Bush made the effort as a favour to Tony Blair, despite the very evident scepticism of Messers Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Their scepticism was understandable. Returning to the UN was a gesture whose only point was to keep up a charade for the benefit of the Labour backbenchers. Tony Blair knew that if he were honest with them he would fail to get them to vote for the war. The pretence, however, did not fool the members of the Security Council, which never came close to approving that second resolution. They shared the Attorney General's original view that an invasion whose purpose was regime change could not be legal under international law.

Mr Blair's attempt to claim that the aim of the invasion was really only to disarm Saddam - if it happened to topple him from power, that was an unexpected side-effect - was pathetically unpersuasive. Tony Blair was like a man who offers as his defence to a charge of being an accessory to murder that, although he had joined a group of men whose ring-leader had expressly stated as they set out together that their joint purpose was to bludgeon a rival to death, he had gone along only because he wanted to disarm the guy: bludgeoning him to death was simply a means to that quite separate goal.

The repeated insistence of the Prime Minister, the Attorney General and, indeed, the whole Cabinet, that the invasion of Iraq was compatible with international law seems simply to have been a pose to try to fool people who genuinely wanted the invasion to be legal - but were too stupid to see for themselves that it wasn't.

Of course, a number of the people in that category include the Labour MPs who voted for it after hearing the Prime Minister and the Attorney General assure them that it was in line with what international law required. Many of those MPs are now very angry at their own stupidity. They have deflected their anger on to the Prime Minister and the Attorney General for not sharing the confidential advice that was released last week.

This is simply a further demonstration of their own idiocy, for there was nothing in that confidential advice that was not obvious at the time of the Commons vote. It was extremely easy to work out that the invasion was incompatible with international law. If that law has a guiding principle, it is that the invasion of one country by another in order to replace its ruler is a flagrant violation of state sovereignty.

The Prime Minister's actions show that he has never regarded "conformity with international law" as critically important. He has, in the past, been quite willing to get involved in military expeditions that did not have explicit UN approval - the test for their acceptability under international law. The toppling of the regime in Sierra Leone, the bombing of Kosovo and the bombing of Saddam in Operation Desert Fox in 1998 are all examples, and ones of which he insists he is proud.

Clare Short and Robin Cook, two ministers who resigned over the illegality of the Iraq invasion in 2003, were enthusiasts for the equally illegal Desert Fox in 1998. But in that case, a Democrat - good old Bill Cinton - was in the White House. In 2003, its occupant was a Republican. To get over Labour MPs' qualms about associating themselves with George W. Bush, Tony Blair had to pretend that international law licensed America's military action.

I do not believe that the Prime Minister cynically exploited his MPs' stupidity by his pretence: the first person he fooled by his sophistry was himself. A self-deluding sophist is not an ideal character to have as the leader of our country: it is what we will get if we re-elect Tony Blair and Labour next week.


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David Cameron and Theresa May - Dangerous Nonsense

http://www.reinvestigate911.org/content/david-cameron-and-theresa-may-dangerous-nonsense

If your wondering why the Prime Minister of the UK and the Home Secretary Theresa May have taken the surprising step of attempting to portray "9/11 Truther's" as "Non-Violent Terror Extremists" it is because of WTC7, which provides incontestable proof of conspiracy to commit mass murder. The illusion has collapsed and the entire establishment is worried about the upcoming Nuremberg Trials 2...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

The Nuremberg trials were a series of military tribunals, held by the Allied forces after World War II, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of Nazi Germany. The trials were held in the city of Nuremberg, Germany. The first, and best known of these trials, described as "the greatest trial in history" by Norman Birkett, one of the British judges who presided over it, was the trial of the major war criminals before the International Military Tribunal (IMT). Held between 20 November 1945 and 1 October 1946, the Tribunal was given the task of trying 23 of the most important political and military leaders of the Third Reich, though one of the defendants, Martin Bormann, was tried in absentia, while another, Robert Ley, committed suicide within a week of the trial's commencement. Not included were Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and Joseph Goebbels, all of whom had committed suicide several months before the indictment was signed. The second set of trials of lesser war criminals was conducted under Control Council Law No. 10 at the U.S. Nuremberg Military Tribunals (NMT); among these included the Doctors' Trial and the Judges' Trial. This article primarily deals with the IMT; see Subsequent Nuremberg Trials for details on those trials.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles

The principles

Principle I

Principle I states, "Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefore and liable to punishment."

Principle II

Principle II states, "The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law."

Principle III

Principle III states, "The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law."

Principle IV


Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".

Previous to the time of the Nuremberg Trials, this excuse was known in common parlance as "Superior Orders". After the prominent, high profile event of the Nuremberg Trials, that excuse is now referred to by many as "Nuremberg Defense". In recent times, a third term, "lawful orders" has become common parlance for some people. All three terms are in use today, and they all have slightly different nuances of meaning, depending on the context in which they are used.

Nuremberg Principle IV is legally supported by the jurisprudence found in certain articles in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which deal indirectly with conscientious objection. It is also supported by the principles found in paragraph 171 of the Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status which was issued by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Those principles deal with the conditions under which conscientious objectors can apply for refugee status in another country if they face persecution in their own country for refusing to participate in an illegal war.

Principle V

Principle V states, "Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law."

Principle VI

Principle VI states,

"The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

    (a) Crimes against peace:

        (i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

        (ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

    (b) War crimes:

    Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

    (c) Crimes against humanity:

    Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime."

Principle VII

Principle VII states, "Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law."


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Time for a re-post:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1195.msg18400#msg18400

To a few that have recently posted some revealing points of view, which speak volumes of themselves.

Perhaps you never read the predictions of George Orwell in "1984". You would have learned that wars are not to be won, but to be continued. Remember "War is peace".

Wars are extremely profitable for those who wage them and those who collect the debt of the population forced to fight them, not so profitable for the boots on the ground who pay the price in blood and loss of life.

Reasons for war are always needed, when not available they are "created" Now we have the "faceless" boogey man of terrorism.

If you watch too much TV and listen to all the talking heads, you will believe all this nonsense. If so, I suggest you sign up now to go fight in foreign lands. The future gene pool wil not miss those with such a continued ignorance of history.


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Everyman decries immorality
A good blog to dip into daily where a lot of the important news censored by the MSM is covered:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/

And a word from George Monbiot:

Bomb Everyone

Humanitarian arguments, if consistently applied, could be used to flatten the entire Middle East

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/30/isis-bomb-muslim-world-air-strikes-saudi-arabia

By George Monbiot, published in the Guardian 1st October 2014

Let’s bomb the Muslim world – all of it – to save the lives of its people. Surely this is the only consistent moral course? Why stop at blowing up Islamic State, when the Syrian government has murdered and tortured so many? This, after all, was last year’s moral imperative. What’s changed?

How about blasting the Shia militias in Iraq? One of them selected 40 people from the streets of Baghdad in June and murdered them for being Sunnis(1). Another massacred 68 people at a mosque in August(2). They now talk openly of “cleansing” and “erasure”(3), once Islamic State has been defeated. As a senior Shia politician warns, “we are in the process of creating Shia al-Qaida radical groups equal in their radicalisation to the Sunni Qaida.”(4)

What humanitarian principle instructs you to stop there? In Gaza this year, 2,100 Palestinians were massacred: including people taking shelter in schools and hospitals. Surely these atrocities demand an air war against Israel? And what’s the moral basis for refusing to liquidate Iran? Mohsen Amir-Aslani was hanged there last week for making “innovations in the religion” (suggesting that the story of Jonah in the Qu’ran was symbolic rather than literal)(5). Surely that should inspire humanitarian action from above? Pakistan is crying out for friendly bombs: an elderly British man, Mohammed Asghar, who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, is, like other blasphemers, awaiting execution there after claiming to be a holy prophet(6). One of his prison guards has already shot him in the back.

Is there not an urgent duty to blow up Saudi Arabia? It has beheaded 59 people so far this year, for offences that include adultery, sorcery and witchcraft(7). It has long presented a far greater threat to the west than Isis now poses. In 2009 Hillary Clinton warned in a secret memo that “Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qa’ida, the Taliban … and other terrorist groups.”(8 ) In July, the former head of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, revealed that Prince Bandar bin Sultan, until recently the head of Saudi intelligence, told him: “The time is not far off in the Middle East, Richard, when it will be literally ‘God help the Shia’. More than a billion Sunnis have simply had enough of them.”(9) Saudi support for extreme Sunni militias in Syria during Bandar’s tenure is widely blamed for the rapid rise of Isis(10,11). Why take out the subsidiary and spare the headquarters?

The humanitarian arguments aired in parliament last week(12), if consistently applied, could be used to flatten the entire Middle East and West Asia. By this means you could end all human suffering, liberating the people of these regions from the vale of tears in which they live.

Perhaps this is the plan: Barack Obama has now bombed seven largely-Muslim countries(13), in each case citing a moral imperative. The result, as you can see in Libya, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan,Yemen, Somalia and Syria, has been the eradication of jihadi groups, of conflict, chaos, murder, oppression and torture. Evil has been driven from the face of the earth by the destroying angels of the west.

Now we have a new target, and a new reason to dispense mercy from the sky, with similar prospects of success. Yes, the agenda and practices of Isis are disgusting. It murders and tortures, terrorises and threatens. As Obama says, it is a “network of death”(14). But it’s one of many networks of death. Worse still, a western crusade appears to be exactly what it wants(15).

Already Obama’s bombings have brought Isis and Jabhat al-Nusra, a rival militia affiliated to Al Qaeda, together(16). More than 6,000 fighters have joined Isis since the bombardment began(17). They dangled the heads of their victims in front of the cameras as bait for war planes. And our governments were stupid enough to take it.

And if the bombing succeeds? If – and it’s a big if – it manages to tilt the balance against Isis, what then? Then we’ll start hearing once more about Shia death squads and the moral imperative to destroy them too – and any civilians who happen to get in the way. The targets change; the policy doesn’t. Never mind the question, the answer is bombs. In the name of peace and the preservation of life, our governments wage perpetual war.

While the bombs fall, our states befriend and defend other networks of death. The US government still refuses – despite Obama’s promise – to release the 28 redacted pages from the Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11, which document Saudi Arabian complicity in the attack on America(18). In the UK, in 2004 the Serious Fraud Office began investigating allegations of massive bribes paid by the British weapons company BAE to Saudi ministers and middlemen. Just as the crucial evidence was about to be released, Tony Blair intervened to stop the investigation(19). The biggest alleged beneficiary was Prince Bandar, mentioned above. The Serious Fraud Office was investigating a claim that, with the approval of the British government, he received £1bn in secret payments from BAE(20).

And still it goes on. Last week’s Private Eye, drawing on a dossier of recordings and emails, alleges that a British company has paid £300m in bribes to facilitate weapons sales to the Saudi National Guard(21). When a whistleblower in the company reported these payments to the British ministry of defence, instead of taking action it alerted his bosses. He had to flee the country to avoid being thrown into a Saudi jail. Smirking, lying, two-faced bastards – this scarcely begins to touch it.

There are no good solutions that military intervention by the UK or the US can engineer. There are political solutions in which our governments could play a minor role: supporting the development of effective states that don’t rely on murder and militias, building civic institutions that don’t depend on terror, helping to create safe passage and aid for people at risk. Oh, and ceasing to protect and sponsor and arm selected networks of death. Whenever our armed forces have bombed or invaded Muslims nations, they have made life worse for those who live there. The regions in which our governments have intervened most are those which suffer most from terrorism and war. That is neither coincidental nor surprising.

Yet our politicians affect to learn nothing. Insisting that more killing will magically resolve deep-rooted conflicts, they scatter bombs like fairy dust.

www.monbiot.com

References:

1. http://www.theguardian.com/guardianweekly/story/0,,1818778,00.html

2. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/shia-attack-sunni-mosque-iraq

3. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/24/iraq-frontline-shia-fighters-war-isis

4. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/24/iraq-frontline-shia-fighters-war-isis

5. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/29/iran-executes-man-heresy-mohsen-amir-aslani

6. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/29/stand-up-for-blasphemers-like-mohammed-asghar-frankie-boyle

7. http://www.amnesty.se/upload/apps/webactions/urgentaction/2014/09/23/52302414.pdf

8. http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/242073

9. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

10. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/

11. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/islamic-state-us-failure-to-look-into-saudi-role-in-911-has-helped-isis-9731563.html

12. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm140926/debtext/140926-0001.htm#1409266000001

13. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/23/nobel-peace-prize-fact-day-syria-7th-country-bombed-obama/

14. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm140926/debtext/140926-0001.htm#1409266000001

15. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/26/west-isis-crusade-britain-iraq-syria

16. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/28/isis-al-qaida-air-strikes-syria

17. http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.616730

18. http://nypost.com/2013/12/15/inside-the-saudi-911-coverup/

19. http://www.theguardian.com/world/bae

20. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/05/bae-saudi-yamamah-deal-background

21. Richard Brooks and Andrew Bousfield, 19th September 2014. Shady Arabia and the Desert Fix. Private Eye.


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In Reference 19 of Monbiot's article we find this interesting paragraph:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/05/bae-saudi-yamamah-deal-background

"Behind the scenes, the Saudis were issuing their own threats. They claimed they would stop supplying vital intelligence about al-Qaida terrorists to Britain if the investigation was allowed to continue. SFO investigators were told dramatically that they faced "another 7/7" and the loss of "British lives on British streets" if they carried on."

Well that's pretty clear.. is it not ?

Saudi nuclear weapons 'on order' from Pakistan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24823846

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Saudi_Arabia

http://www.theguardian.com/world/julian-borger-global-security-blog/2013/nov/07/pakistan-saudi-nuclear-proliferation


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Yeah, I was reading about the Saudi Nukes yesterday!

   

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I thought I had posted Cameron's comments made at the UN but I cannot see them on this page..

So here is an update:

WOW! 9/11 Activist Surrenders To Police After Camerons UN Speech Deemed Truthers as EXTREMISTS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TGgL6cAyKg

I do not agree with the conclusion at the end of the video that it is only Muslim's being targeted, it is all of us that demand the TRUTH, irrespective of race or religion. Selective Muslim groups are however the continual target's of "Allied bombardment", which suits Wahhabism just fine..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi_movement

http://www.reinvestigate911.org/content/david-cameron-and-theresa-may-dangerous-nonsense

The PM did not offer a definition but he said non-violent extremism is characterised by "the peddling of lies: that 9/11 was a Jewish plot or that the 7/7 London attacks were staged. The idea that Muslims are persecuted all over the world as a deliberate act of Western policy. The concept of an inevitable clash of civilisations".


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Yeah, I was reading about the Saudi Nukes yesterday!

I don't know if the Saudi's have nuclear weapon capability or not, but the odds are good that they do, why bother to build missile pads aimed at Israel and Iran otherwise ?

Conventional warheads just won't cut the mustard against either of those enemies.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@26.0195845,53.5714094,4254499m/data=!3m1!1e3


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TRUTHERS THIS WILL BLOW THE LIES OPEN ..HUGE PRO GADDAFI RALLY in Tripoli_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpFTCyNxOfY

I don't remember hearing about this on the MSM news in the UK.

I don't speak that language so no way of telling if the translation is accurate or not, or even the voice of Gaddafi himself.

Is it true that 1/3 the population of Libya turned up to protest the illegal NATO bombing of their country ?

What really did happen at Benghazi ?

BENGHAZI – THE BIGGEST COVER-UP SCANDAL IN U.S. HISTORY? – WAS BENGHAZI A CIA GUN-RUNNING OPERATION FOR MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD & OTHER INSURGENTS FIGHTING IN SYRIA?


http://www.libertynews.com/2013/05/benghazi-the-biggest-cover-up-scandal-in-u-s-history-was-benghazi-a-cia-gun-running-operation-for-muslim-brotherhood-other-insurgents-fighting-in-syria/


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Saudi Arabia threatens Russia with Olympic Terror
Posted on August 28, 2013 by M. Klostermayr

http://www.syrianews.cc/saudi-arabia-threatens-russia-olympic-terror/

Prince Bandar, head of Saudi intelligence, met with President Vladimir Putin in Moscow three weeks ago and in this meeting, he uttered a number of incentives and threats to persuade Russia to drop its support for Assad and Syria.

He offered an alliance with OPEC as an incentive to Putin and he also made the offer of a joint monopoly over the global oil and gas business. Prince Bandar has also used a threat and said that otherwise terrorist attacks will happen during the Olympic Games in Sochi next February.

As a reminder, Prince Bandar was the long-time Saudi Arabian Ambassador in Washington, and he is also known under the name “Bandar Bush” because he is a very close friend of the satanic Bush-family.

He is also one of the main masterminds behind the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001 because 16 of the 19 alleged hijackers were Saudi nationals – as scapegoats of an operation that was carried out by the intelligence services of the U.S., Israel and Saudi Arabia. These three terrorist states represent the only real “axis of evil” in the world.

Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
12:00PM BST 27 Aug 2013

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.

 The revelations come amid high tension in the Middle East, with US, British, and French warship poised for missile strikes in Syria. Iran has threatened to retaliate.

The strategic jitters pushed Brent crude prices to a five-month high of $112 a barrel. “We are only one incident away from a serious oil spike. The market is a lot tighter than people think,” said Chris Skrebowski, editor of Petroleum Review.

Leaked transcripts of a closed-door meeting between Russia’s Vladimir Putin and Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan shed an extraordinary light on the hard-nosed Realpolitik of the two sides.

Prince Bandar, head of Saudi intelligence, allegedly confronted the Kremlin with a mix of inducements and threats in a bid to break the deadlock over Syria. “Let us examine how to put together a unified Russian-Saudi strategy on the subject of oil. The aim is to agree on the price of oil and production quantities that keep the price stable in global oil markets,” he said at the four-hour meeting with Mr Putin. They met at Mr Putin’s dacha outside Moscow three weeks ago.

“We understand Russia’s great interest in the oil and gas in the Mediterranean from Israel to Cyprus. And we understand the importance of the Russian gas pipeline to Europe. We are not interested in competing with that. We can cooperate in this area,” he said, purporting to speak with the full backing of the US.

Syria: Russia 'astonished' by 'illegal' Western war plans
By Roland Oliphant in Moscow
5:00PM BST 26 Aug 2013

Russia is “extremely concerned” by Western moves toward military action in Syria and wants the results of the gas attack investigation by United Nations inspectors to be presented to the security council before any action is considered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10266567/Syria-Russia-astonished-by-illegal-Western-war-plans.html

In an apparent last ditch attempt to forestall United States, British and French preparations to strike targets in Syria, Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister insisted that it is so far “impossible” to know who was behind the attacks and said he was “astonished” by the rhetoric coming from Western capitals.

“We are especially concerned to hear talk coming from London and Paris suggesting that Nato could take the lead in bombing in Syria without Security Council approval. This is a very slippery slope,” said Mr Lavrov.

“Any military action without Security Council approval would be a grave violation of international law."

“Such actions [would contradict] the accord signed by the G8 leaders earlier this year, which says in black and white that any information on the use of chemical weapons in Syria should be thoroughly investigated and submitted to the United Nations Security Council."

Mr Lavrov, who said he had a “lengthy” telephone conversation with John Kerry, the US Secretary of State, on the matter yesterday, refused to be drawn on what action Russia might take should strikes take place.

Syria: As the bombs fall, the people of Damascus rally round Bashar al-Assad
By Peter Oborne
6:40AM BST 17 Apr 2014

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10770311/Syria-As-the-bombs-fall-the-people-of-Damascus-rally-round-Bashar-al-Assad.html

Over the past few days, I have talked to shopkeepers, students, soldiers, doctors, a dentist, MPs and government ministers (including the minister for tourism, who must have the most thankless job in the world). On the basis of these conversations, I would judge not just that support for the regime is holding up, but that President Assad could very well win a popular election, even if carried out on a free and fair basis. Such elections are in fact due: the president must hold a poll before July 17 if he is not to exceed his constitutional term of office. An announcement is expected soon.

 Discussing this vote, I found – to my surprise – that even people outside the governing Ba’ath party, including some of Assad’s political opponents, said they would support him. Maria Saadah, an independent MP for Damascus, told me that her career as an architect had suffered because she did not belong to the Ba’ath, and that she had entered politics at the beginning of the crisis because she wanted to reform the system. But she added that the middle of a war against what she described as foreign-backed insurgents – which is how the regime ceaselessly depicts its opponents – was not the time for that. Syrian sovereignty, she said, had to come first.

This argument is very common. People here see their country as being threatened by foreign powers (above all Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey, all backed by the West) who are sponsoring the jihadist groups that make up the opposition. I was struck by the fact that this argument is not made only by the Alawite coterie around the president. I also heard it from Sunni Muslims, Christians and members of the various other cultural and religious groups that abound in Syria.

How can this square with the Western narrative that President Assad’s government, with the aid of a handful of tribal followers, is hell-bent on the destruction of the rest of the country? Consider the facts. Only a handful of members of Assad’s 30-strong cabinet (I was told two) are Alawite. The prime minister is Sunni, as are the interior minister, the justice minister, the foreign minister, even the defence minister. The delegation that travelled to Geneva for the failed peace talks several months ago was also almost entirely composed of Sunni Muslims (though they would probably reject sectarian terms, and prefer to think of themselves just as Syrians).

Nor is it merely the political class that thinks in this way.


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Debunking the "The Saudis did 9-11" nonsense!

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/debunksaudis.php

The official story of 9-11 is collapsing almost as fast as the Obamacare website. Most Americans are now well aware of the strange collapse of WTC Building 7, the video that captures the sound of the actual explosion that initiates the collapse of WTC7, the very strange behavior of the Secret Service as President Bush read about goats at Booker Elementary School. We have all seen the photographs that confirm the remains of demolition "cutter charges" in the remains of the towers. And we all know how the BBC reported that Building 7 collapsed 26 minutes before it actually happened. indicating a script was being followed (but alas, not carefully enough).

With the official story in free fall, Americans are wondering just who did this heinous deed. With the US Government itself the prime suspect, many are asking if the US Government had help from an outside nation, one with a long track record of world-changing dirty tricks.

There is a great deal of evidence that implicates the nation of Israel as a co-conspirator with the Bush administration. First, there was the massive Israeli spy ring uncovered in the United States just before 9-11, and how some of the "Dancing Israelis" arrested after being seen cheering and dancing as the World Trade Towers collapsed turned out to be Mossad spies! Then there was the strange case of Odigo, an Israeli-owned company whose New York offices received a warning about the attacks before the planes used in the attacks had even left the ground! All four of the hijacked planes departed from airport gates whose security was provided by the same Israeli security company. Israel has a long track record of playing dirty tricks against the United States and other countries, including the Lavon affair (framed on Egypt), Israel's attack on the USS Liberty (initially framed on Egypt), and Israel's smuggling a radio transmitter into Libya that was used to send fake messages that tricked President Reagan into bombing Libya.

As people start to seriously examine the plethora of evidence regarding Israel's numerous perfidies it comes as no surprise that recently we have seen Israel's "useful idiots" launch a propaganda campaign to claim that Saudi Arabia was behind the 9-11 attacks, based on a lawsuit brought against Saudi Arabia by the families of the victims, and a secret report that Representatives Stephen F. Lynch and Walter B. Jones are demanding be made public; a report that purportedly claims Saudi arabia was behind 9-11. But anyone can bring a lawsuit against anyone for anything. That does not mean the lawsuit allegations are true. Nonsense lawsuits are a reality of the modern US court system, as are lawsuits staged primarily as political and propaganda stunts, which is what this appears to be. Likewise, the report the Representatives wish to make public appears to be the US Government's attempt to "get ahead of the ball" and craft a new lie to replace the one that has failed. At the very least these two pieces of propaganda are intended to deflect interest away from Israel. At worst, it is the start of the campaign to justify military invasion of that country, just as Saddam's nuclear weapons were the excuse to invade Iraq, and the more recently (and thankfully failed) attempt to justify invasion of Syria by claiming Syria's government was gassing their own people.

As I have mentioned before, the best way to tell if you are being lied to is to look for what should be there but isn't. In the case of the claim that Saudi Arabia was behind 9-11, what should be there and isn't is a motive for Saudi Arabia to do something like that.

George Bush had a motive to do 9-11. He needed that "new Pearl Harbor" to enrage Americans into the century of war called for by the Project For The New American Century. Israel certainly had a motive to do 9-11 and frame Muslims for it, to trick Americans into siding with Israel's continued land grabs and wars against Israel's enemies, with Israel's agenda being (as it was with the Lavon affair, the USS Liberty, and the Libyan radio hoax) that Americans fight those wars for them!

Saudi Arabia does not have a history of dirty tricks, nor a demonstrated ability to carry out such deceptions. More to the point, Saudi Arabia has no motive to attack the United States. The Saudi princes have grown very rich indeed through the Petrodollar arrangement. Saudi Arabia buys many American products and weapons ($61 billion in 2011), and unlike Israel, the American taxpayer does not have to give them the money first with which to buy those weapons. Whereas Israel constantly takes money out of the US, the Saudis pour it in! Private Saudi investment in the US economy is over $400 billion. Saudi Arabia is a major creditor to the US Government. Exact figures are hard to find but Saudi Arabia has loaned the US Government hundreds of billions of dollars.

Saudi Arabia is not going to risk an attack on the US because all that wealth would vanish. The Saudi wealth inside the US would be frozen or seized, and the outstanding loans to the US would never be repaid. The "useful idiots" trying to save Israel by blaming 9-11 on Saudi Arabia have yet to come up with a motive for the Saudis to do something like 9-11 that risks losing all that cash.

Remember that Saudi Arabia was being framed for 9-11 right from the start. One of the accused hijackers, a Saudi Pilot named Saeed Al-Ghamdi, was still alive after 9-11 and sued the US Government for defaming him.

And finally, here is some common sense that totally undermines the attempt to frame Saudi Arabia for 9-11. If Saudi Arabia really wanted to hurt the United States, they don't need to fly airplanes into skyscrapers to do it. All they have to do is ask for their money back, all at once. The resulting damage to the US financial system would make 9-11 look like a minor inconvenience in comparison.

And it would be perfectly legal for Saudi Arabia to ask for their money back.

Which is why we know that the claim that Saudi Arabia was behind 9-11 has no more basis in fact than the claim that Saddam had nuclear weapons or that Assad gassed his own people right in front of the UN chemical weapons inspectors.

As the media tries to blame Saudi Arabia for 9-11, it is worth recalling that the Bush administration initially claimed that Iraq was behind 9-11 to sell the 2003 invasion, then later admitted Iraq had actually been innocent. So there is a pattern of the US simply using 9-11 as a "one size fits all" excuse to invade yet another oil rich nation.

At the very least, even if you accept the new claim that Saudi Arabia was behind 9-11, then it means the US Government was lying when they claimed Afghanistan and then Iraq were behind it! So why would you trust them now?

[many supporting reference links at original article source]


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Biden: Turks, Saudis, UAE funded and armed Al Nusra and Al Qaeda

http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2014/10/biden-turks-saudis-uae-funded-armed-al-nusra-al-qaeda/

Washington’s partners in fighting extremism – and trampling all over international laws to do it – are the same ones who have fueled it. The Vice President of the United States just said so. And Americans are snickering over the B-word. Leaders of the free world indeed.

by Sharmine Narwani


When Joe Biden gets candid, he really lets rip. The US vice president, speaking at the John F. Kennedy Jr Forum at Harvard University’s Institute of Politics, on Thursday told his audience – point blank – that America’s Sunni allies are responsible for funding and arming Al Qaeda-type extremists in Syria.

And he named names: Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, specifically. Others – like Qatar – are undoubtedly complicit too, but Biden’s comments were made off-the-cuff during the question and answer period following his prepared statement.

Of course, much of what Biden said has been suspected for years by Syria watchers, but to acknowledge this outright during the early days of President Barack Obama’s much-vaunted ISIL-busting Coalition – featuring these very same Sunni Arab partners – is a jaw-dropping concession.

But that’s not all. Biden also managed to fundamentally undermine his administration’s efforts to train and arm “moderate” Syrian rebels today, by claiming there is no “moderate middle (in Syria) because the moderate middle are made up of shopkeepers, not soldiers.”

Keep in mind now that just two weeks ago Congress approved – at the request of this White House – $500 million dollars to train and arm “moderate” Syrian rebels. Obama’s second-in-command is saying there are none of those, so who exactly are US forces teaching to fight with heavy weapons in Saudi training camps today?

michael mazur October 4, 2014 at 9:34 am

It’s a lengthy revelation of what we all knew anyway. It’s not a foot in mouth oopsie, as he goes on like this for a minute. He knows what he’s doing, and would have been with the prior knowledge of the Pres himself.
Why?
Syria’s off the agenda.
Why?
Iran is becoming more powerful by the month, and not exhausted neither materially nor morally by years of debilitating deployments, and will intervene as Bashar al Assad’s govt will fall, as after three and half years of this constant warfare against it, it is too depleted to withstand a joint air and ground assault by US and other western allies forces.
Obama wanted to be put into a too conflicted situation publicly, accidentally on purpose, but actually to shelve what really is this disastrous ME misadventure started way back, in terms of recent history, in late July 1990 when April Glaspie said to Saddam Hussein, that America saw it as an inter Arab matter, Iraq’s dispute with Kuwait.
We see that the British are in discussions with the Iranians, we can read into this that were the Americans to be bombing the Syrians and attacking with ground forces, the British would not want to be attacking advancing Iranian ground forces using attack aircraft in support of American aircraft doing the same thing.
Pres. Obama would rather play golf right now, which is a better option than bombing Syria.

Biden blames US allies in Middle East for rise of ISIS

http://rt.com/news/192880-biden-isis-us-allies/

US Vice-President Joe Biden has accused America’s key allies in the Middle East of allowing the rise of the Islamic State (IS), saying they supported extremists with money and weapons in their eagerness to oust the Assad regime in Syria.

America’s “biggest problem” in Syria is its regional allies, Biden told students at the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum at the Institute of Politics at Harvard University on Thursday.

“Our allies in the region were our largest problem in Syria,” he said, explaining that Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the UAE were “so determined to take down Assad,” that in a sense they started a “proxy Sunni-Shia war” by pouring “hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of tons of weapons” towards anyone who would fight against Assad.

“And we could not convince our colleagues to stop supplying them,” said Biden, thus disassociating the US from unleashing the civil war in Syria.

“The outcome of such a policy now is more visible,” he said, as it turned out they supplied extremists from Al-Nusra Front and Al-Qaeda.

 All of a sudden the regional powers that sponsored anti-Assad rebels awakened to the dawn of a major international security threat in the face of ISIS – now called Islamic State. After being essentially thrown out of Iraq it found open space and territory in eastern Syria and established close ties with the Al-Nusra Front which the US had earlier declared a terrorist group.

Now Washington needs a coalition of Sunni states to fight the Islamic State because “America can't once again go in to Muslim nation and be the aggressor, it has to be led by Sunnis, to attack a Sunni organization [the IS],” Biden said, acknowledging that it is for the first time that the US uses a geopolitical strategy.

“Even if we wanted it to be, it cannot be our fight alone,” Biden said. “This cannot be turned into a US ground war against another Arab nation in the Middle East.”

“But of what I’m more astonished is of his apparent amnesia about what America and Britain were trying to ferment in Syria only a year ago. They were not only putting staff intelligence personnel on the ground, and providing logistical support to the rebels in Syria; they were spearheading the campaign to try to oust Assad,” former MI5 agent Annie Machon told RT.

She added that “Perhaps, the Vice President is finally learning some lessons from history. It does not matter who you think your friends are going to be in the region. Very often they will be taken over or subsumed into a more radical group.”


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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