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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 84052 times)

Group: Professor
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It's the magnetics in the grenade/yoke circuit, and some iron in the cheap wire.
Why wasn't that iron ferromagnetic before the wire was used in the Grenade ?
Why only parts of the wire became ferromagnetic afterwards and not the entire wire ?

You know that the induction circuit is magnetic.
I do, but that does not explain why copper wire became ferromagnetic or why the alleged iron in the wire was not ferromagnetic before, but became so afterwards ...and why only in parts of the wire ?
   
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Hello,

I picked this up ( forgot the location )

https://www-skif-biz.translate.goog/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=717705&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=nui#717705

So if this is a double post, remove it.

For me, it raises some serious doubts, because he is talking about energy-amplification by mere deceleration of a EM-wave.
In all publications I found about TWT there is always an external energy-supply to the system. It is simply not true, that
energy-amplification is achieved by a ( at no expense ) magnetic field.
The Betatron needs an changing magnetic field which then accelerates electrons ( being the secondary winding )

https://www.solstice.de/grundl_d_tph/exp_besch/exp_besch_05.html
However some information seem valid

@verpies ?

Mike
   

Group: Professor
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In all publications I found about TWT there is always an external energy-supply to the system.
So did I.

It is simply not true, that energy-amplification is achieved by a ( at no expense ) magnetic field.
Energy-amplification-no, but centripetal Lorentz acceleration-yes ...followed by cyclotron radiation.
I think that this is a simple case of conflation of energy and centripetal acceleration in static magnetic field.

The Betatron needs an changing magnetic field which then accelerates electrons ( being the secondary winding )
Yes, and without that change electrons acquire centripetal acceleration but spiral down as they lose energy by cyclotron radiation.
   

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Why wasn't that iron ferromagnetic before the wire was used in the Grenade ?
Why only parts of the wire became ferromagnetic afterwards and not the entire wire ?
I do, but that does not explain why copper wire became ferromagnetic or why the alleged iron in the wire was not ferromagnetic before, but became so afterwards ...and why only in parts of the wire ?




  All I know is that all my tools are now magnetized. I can pick up any screw or metal object. Why not before? Because nothing was  placed in a magnetic field. Magnetics have their limitations also, as to distance, time, and such.

  My father would show me the quality of stainless steal by just how well a magnet would stick to it, or not stick to it.
Same thing with cheap wire.
  So, after some thought, the idea of using the cheap construction wire, and not the 100 percent pure copper wire, may not be the best option for the grenade coils. As those coils do resonate, back and forth. So, maybe good thick gauge speaker wire may be better.
« Last Edit: 2021-11-04, 03:19:18 by NickZ »
   

Group: Professor
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All I know is that all my tools are now magnetized. I can pick up any screw or metal object. Why not before? Because nothing was  placed in a magnetic field. Magnetics have their limitations also, as to distance, time, and such.ick gauge speaker wire may be better.
You conflated ferromagnetism with remanence.
Your answer does not address the 3 questions I asked.  Focus and try again.
   

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You conflated ferromagnetism with remanence.
Your answer does not address the 3 questions I asked.  Focus and try again.




   Oh, I didn't know that you had asked me, anything personally.  As normally one would start a personal post and question from your posts with,  NickZ:
 Then I would have answered in my own conflated personal way. However,  I don't need to focus on a piece of magnetized wire. Thank you.
That was my last try. It's up to you now, to focus and try again.

   Don't be so demanding, Verpies, I could miss the next class and levels, to 1st grade. Then "who would keep it simple".
 You know that you can ask me, anything, but don't think that you can just blurt out some after class homework demands, about a piece of old wire.
Perhaps, you like to tell us what you think that you have up your sleeve, instead. As I already mentioned what I thought were my results, so far.
   When I turn on the device, and let it run for a while, then would be a good time to further test the magnetism involved, or lack of it.
   In any case I do think that pure copper is needed and may work better. But, It's not so easy to find here in thick gauges. Nor is it sold at our hardware stores. And I do try to keep things simple, and keep the costs down to a minimum, on these non productive device tests.

   
   NickZ
   
   

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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
Nick if you find the old 'Marco Rodine' docs on (look on youtube) winding his Thruster on a plastic
donut toy it does stuff like that and it makes a strange 'monopole magnet' if you insert a drill bit end in the middle aperture, no yoke.  ;D

Sil
   

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Oh, I didn't know that you had asked me, anything personally.  As normally one would start a personal post and question from your posts with,  NickZ:
You should have known by the 5 details, which I circled for you in red color below.
   

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...about a piece of old wire.
How do you know it was old?  How do you know it was cheap ?
Even it it was both of these things, then it does not explain why it was not ferromagnetic before and ferromagnetic after.

The age and price of the wire is immaterial to this discussion because age and price do not make a copper wire ferromagnetic.  Bringing it up is just a manifestation of the lack of focus on the subject of the question.

I suspect that you are dismissive of this entire anomaly because it does not fit your cherished narrative about the M.O.
Ignoring conflicting data is not a part of the scientific method.

...and it is an anomaly because it is not known to the current body of scientific knowledge that subjecting a diamagnetic or paramagnetic material to magnetic fields turns them into ferromagnetic materials. 
You might think that you have provided examples to the contrary by making your statements about the stainless steel and your tools getting magnetized ...but you did NOT. 
The reason for this is simple: Your stainless steel and shop tools contained iron and were ferromagnetic to begin with and that is very different from them acquiring ferromagnetism through some process.  Your tools becoming weak permanent magnets happened through the phenomenon of ferromagnetic remanence, which is very different from acquiring ferromagnetic properties after not having them initially.

This is a perfect example how knowledge and integrity would allow you to spot an anomaly and prevent you from simply dismissing it as an "old cheap wire".
   

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   Ok, perhaps I should point out that I am not interested in furthering this topic. You never believe any thing I say, so save your lectures.
You are interested,  you figure it out. I don't care if you agree or not, I have given my views on this.
I am not interested in arguing your point of view, with nothing to go on. Perhaps my point of view is correct, and if not,  It's not.
 
   NickZ

  How do you know it's not old,  how do you know it's not cheap? Just your questions count? Not with me... Sorry, do your own homework, prof.
« Last Edit: 2021-11-04, 22:51:49 by NickZ »
   

Group: Professor
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The effect may not last very long though. In any case, I don't think that the MO is dependent on that magnetized wire.
Neither do I, but I think that the M.O. causes the wire to become ferromagnetic (notice that I did not write "magnetized").
A material must become ferromagnetic first before it can be "magnetized" through ferromagnetic remanence.

I  just tested my grenade coils with two doubled up microwave magnets. There is NO magnetism on my grenade, aluminum heatsinks, nor on anything else, except what is made of iron or ferrite. There is no pull on the grenade, at all.
That's a conventional behavior of paramagnetic and diamagnetic metals like aluminum and copper.
Keep testing it, though. If one day you feel an attraction to something that was not attracted to a permanent magnet before, then you will know that you are witnessing an anomalous change in the material's property.
   

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Ok, perhaps I should point out that I am not interested in furthering this topic.
Why not ?  Alas, it is an anomaly that occurred in a device similar to the one you are interested in getting to work.
Do you hope to get it to work without understanding it ?   :o

You never believe any thing I say
Don't exaggerate.  M.O. is not everything.

I am not interested in arguing your point of view, with nothing to go on.
The acquisition of ferromagnetic properties by a previously non-ferromagnetic wire depicted in the video is not "nothing".

Perhaps my point of view is correct, and if not,  It's not.
If it is not, then this will negatively affect the course of your experiments and prevent you from achieving your goal.

How do you know it's not old,  how do you know it's not cheap?
I don't but the age and cost of the wire are not relevant to the acquisition of its ferromagnetic properties.

Just your questions count?
No, but I answer your questions to me directly and with focus, care and accuracy and expect the same in return.
   

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   Well then you need to discuss it with author of the video. As I am not interested, and have mentioned why.

 NickZ
   
   

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Well then you need to discuss it with author of the video. As I am not interested, and have mentioned why.
Indeed, you have mentioned that you are not interested in an anomaly related to the device you are working on.
...but you have not mentioned why.
   

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There are many accounts in the literature where copper and aluminum became ferromagnetic. In one instance a thick aluminum plate became a strong permanent magnet for many hours then later had zero magnetism.
Were these 1 point observations or was that material established to be non-ferromagnetic in a previous point in time ?
Also weres these metals observed in a lab or field ?

To my knowledge the only condition required to create a PM is the bulk coordination of electron spins but how this could happen in aluminum still eludes me.
Electron spins have very short relaxation times that are hard to notice on a scope not to mention human senses.

So there are a large number of accounts of similar effects which relate directly to this kind of technology.
OK, so this has happened before but nobody knows how exactly ...and how to replicate it.
   
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verpies
Quote
OK, so this has happened before but nobody knows how exactly ...and how to replicate it.

Yes, most great discoveries happened by accident when an experiment went wrong. The main reason they could even be proven was that the inventor/scientist was knowledgeable and competent enough to document it and follow through. Most people see all kinds of anomalies in nature and experiments but simply don't care enough to follow through.

Quote
Electron spins have very short relaxation times that are hard to notice on a scope not to mention human senses.

I'm not sure I understand, I was referring to a metal/material becoming a Permanent Magnet. To my knowledge any material could produce a permanent magnetic field if most of the electron spins were aligned and held in place. The electron orbit is a current loop and if all the loops were aligned along the same axis they act like a series of one turn solenoid coils. However as we know we didn't create the electron orbit/current loop nor did we set the electron/charge in perpetual motion.

The science is clear that a moving charge is a current and it produces a magnetic field. It just so happens that in most materials the electron orbit/current loops are random so the magnetic field is neutral overall just like the external charge. So it should be no mystery that every material could have an external permanent magnetic field if we knew how to align the majority of electron orbits and hold them in alignment.

It's easy to understand why aluminum could become a permanent magnet but the how to do it part still eludes me. My feeling is that it relates to ball lightning because the field geometry would need to be self-reinforcing. It's a "ball" of very high voltage motional charges with a definite structure for a reason, I want to know the reason. So we have barely scratched the surface of what is possible in my opinion.

Regards
AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   

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Do you remember the Al-Ni-Co (Alnico) Magnets of yesteryear?

One must wonder why Aluminum  was  essential to the Permanent Magnet Alloy.


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   

Group: Professor
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I'm not sure I understand, I was referring to a metal/material becoming a Permanent Magnet. To my knowledge any material could produce a permanent magnetic field if most of the electron spins were aligned and held in place.
The spin axes alignment permanently staying in one orientation is what distinguishes a ferromagnetic form a paramagnetic.

I agree with you that aligning all electron spin axes with a multi-T magnetic field would turn even an unrepentant paramagnetic like aluminum into a powerful magnetic flux source.  However that spin alignment decoheres very rapidly in paramagnetic materials.

Just look at the lengths of T1 and T2 times in Pulsed Electron Paramagnetic Resonance experiments.
 
In ferromagnetic materials the spin alignment is permanently maintained within the ferromagnetic domains by the hyperfine interaction.
In paramagnetic materials the spin alignment decays so quickly that it cannot be perceived by human senses.

It's easy to understand why aluminum could become a permanent magnet but the how to do it part still eludes me.
It is easy to do it temporarily (just stick it in a 10T magnetic field) but it is impossible to maintain the spin alignment longer than several nanoseconds after the aluminum is taken out of that magnetic field - at least according to the current body of scientific knowledge. 
I don't think several nanoseconds qualifies as "permanent".
   

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Do you remember the Al-Ni-Co (Alnico) Magnets of yesteryear?
One must wonder why Aluminum  was  essential to the Permanent Magnet Alloy.
it prevents the Cobalt and Nickel crystals/domains from rotating freely and randomizing their ferromagnetic magnetization directions (vectors).
In other words, it increases the coercivity of the alloy. Without it, Cobalt and Nickel are soft ferromagnetics.

Aluminum remains paramagnetic in this alloy, it does not acquire ferromagnetic properties like that copper wire in the video.
   

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   Verpies:
   What I think we are seeing in the video that you re posted, is speaker wire. Which is not what I'm using, at all.
   https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-50-ft-14-Gauge-Stranded-Speaker-Wire-Y283530/203726262

   As this particular speaker wire has two different conductors, copper and aluminum, perhaps a reaction of some sort may have happened there.
Nor do we know how long the effect last for. Nor, if it's even that type of speaker wire, as there is also just CU speaker wire, as well. Which looks very similar to the dual metals speaker wire. So, we don't know which speaker wire is being used, in the video. Or how old, cheaply made, or burnt out, it may be. I don't understand Russian, either,  maybe Vasik can chime in on some details.
   As mentioned, I doubt that it is a similar device to mine, nor do I think that wire has anything to do with MO, of my device. As it may be a consequence of some sort of short circuit, and such, so it's hard to tell. And is not something that I've ever observed. So, I pass on judgement, as to the cause of the anomaly.
   I use regular house construction copper wire. Not the dual metals speaker wire, nor the same metals copper speaker wire.
So, I can't compare apples to mangos.  I just post this, as you are talking about copper and aluminum becoming magnetic, NOT just copper wire, like I use.  I hope that this helps.

   NickZ

   PS. What I have noticed while living in a very hot 90 percent humidity climate, is that everything here oxidizes very very fast. Including speaker wire, sealed in PVC. You can see it right through the clear insulation. And that coating on the wires may in time cause some type of anomaly, such as on that piece of magnetic wire. Especially when exposed to repeated HV pulses, along with lower voltage pulses from the induction circuits, as on my device. That coating may change things. Until the wire dissolves, or turns to dust.
   
« Last Edit: 2021-11-05, 18:32:58 by NickZ »
   

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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
I have some of that speaker wire, it's expensive and it doesnt give a second look at neo magnets
it's pure copper with out the iron or oxygen in it. Err did some one say copper iron alloy  >:-) >:-)

Sil
   

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    Well, I did say that possibly that piece of magnetized wire was old, and rusty. And may also contain iron in some form, as well. I should not have said anything, as it got the profesor all riled up again.
   That was my guess. You would have to ask the author of that video, about any of that.  However, my grenade does NOT react to a magnet, at all.

   NickZ
   

Group: Professor
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Well, I did say that possibly that piece of magnetized wire was old, and rusty. And may also contain iron in some form, as well.
None of these explain the transition from non-ferromagnetic to ferromagnetic state:
1) Age
2) Price
3) Iron content
4) Iron rusting (oxidation)
5) Chemical reaction between Copper and polymer insulation.
6) Chemical reaction between Copper and water.
7) Chemical reaction between Copper and Aluminum/Tin/Nickel/Silver*.

Re.3: You might say: "but iron is ferromagnetic!" and I will counter: "Yes but why wasn't it ferromagnetic before ?".
Re.4: You might say: "but iron rust is ferromagnetic!" and I will counter: "Yes but why wasn't it ferromagnetic before if iron is ferromagnetic, too ?".
Re.7: You might say: "but Nickel coating is ferromagnetic!" and I will counter: "Yes but why wasn't it ferromagnetic before ?".

I have some of that speaker wire, it's expensive and it doesn't give a second look at neo magnets
* The silver colored wire in some transparent speaker cables is actually Tin or Silver or Nickel plated Copper.  Aluminum is not used because it breaks easily and is hard to solder.
If yours is expensive then it could be Silver plated Copper.  Look at its cut end under a magnifying glass and you should see the Copper color under the silver plating.
« Last Edit: 2021-11-06, 09:28:04 by verpies »
   

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   Well Verpies, just how do you want to clear this matter up? Sounds like a wild goose chase to me.   
   The add on that  speaker wire says it's copper and aluminum, not plated silver coatings.
   I'm plain out of guessed, you got any more...  But I agree about that you can't solder on an aluminum wire.

   NickZ
« Last Edit: 2021-11-06, 03:29:14 by NickZ »
   

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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
You can’t solder aluminium, cant you? Well I can it's easy. get your strip of aluminium stick it in some oil clean it under the oil then solder it through the oil, works every time.
Sil
   
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