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2022-01-24, 05:45:54
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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 85096 times)

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I think I will rest my case here and concentrate on what I have at hand.

Warm regards.

Maxolous
   

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   From Wikipedia:
   "Definition

Lenz's law states that:

    The current induced in a circuit due to a change in a magnetic field is directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion.
                              end quote.

   Seam pretty easy to understand.
 
    Notice the word "Current" and not just voltage. And what does a change in flux mean? Does it ignore what causes the flux, in the first place.
Is that flux not caused by both the current, and voltage. Not just one or the other. Can they really be separated, as you are so adamint about.
 Your favorite subject. Is that really that interesting.?

    I have no case to rest... just wanting to learn.

    NickZ
   

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I think I will rest my case here ...
Do you concede that the direction of current flowing through the inductor L1 does not change direction in the circuit below when the switch/transistor Q1 opens?

   

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Notice the word "Current" and not voltage.
Notice that the opposition is to the change of flux - not to the change of another current  or voltage.
Also, Lenz's law does not mean that the current flowing in the inductor reverses direction in this circuit when Q1 opens.

...but it does mean that if the external flux changes then internal flux generated by the induced current will oppose that change immediately without delay.
   

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Do you concede that the direction of current flowing through the inductor L1 does not change direction when the switch/transistor Q1 opens?



There is a misconception here and I said it before.

You are misunderstanding me.

I  have said that the resultant direction is in one direction.

But that doesn't mean that the induced magnetic field in the Inductor didn't produce a current which opposes the change

And which voltage polarity also changed as we both agreed in that aspect.

Maxolous
   

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Permit me to use this analogy;

Let say someone bigger than you is pushing you and you are resisting him. Every time you are loosing ground in the direction he wants you to go.

You facing him to push back is what I referred to here. As current in the opposite direction. The resultant is that you are going his direction.

This happens until you change direction and flow with him.
   

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I  have said that the resultant direction is in one direction.
OK, so what does the diode do in your Kacher/TC circuit ?
That diode experiences only the total (resultant) current flowing in the inductor.

   

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Now there is no pushing back with voltage alone, if there will be power to push back current most flow in that direction.

Hope you got me
   

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OK, so what does the diode do in your Kacher/TC circuit ?
That diode experiences only the total (resultant) current flowing in the inductor.

Now there are two stages here ;

Which is voltages in the on and off state.

In the off state like the converter we have V(load) =vL+v(source)
   

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And also V(diode) which is a small voltage
   

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The kacher see more of the voltage in the off state
   

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But that doesn't mean that the induced magnetic field flux in the Inductor didn't produce a current which opposes the change
I understand you, but you don't have the causality ordered properly.

For starters, it is the current which is induced - not the magnetic flux.  That magnetic flux is generated by the current.
That current is induced in response to the attempt to change the total flux penetrating the coil. 

That attempt to change the total flux penetrating the coil can be caused by:
1) an external flux attempting to penetrate the coil (as in a transformer or generator/motor)
2) an externally injected current, which attempts to generate an additional flux in the coil
3) resistance which dissipates the existing current and attempts to decrease the existing flux in the coil.

Cases 2 & 3 are called self-induction and are manifested as inductive reactance and inductance.

I agree, that the current induced by the attempted change of the total magnetic flux, generates it own magnetic flux that opposes that change.
However, none of this means that the total current flowing in the coil reverses direction.  ...and does not explain what that diode does since it experiences only the total current flowing in the coil.
« Last Edit: 2021-10-27, 00:09:33 by verpies »
   

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However, none of this means that the total current flowing in the coil reverses direction.  ...and does not explain what that diode does since it sees only the total current flowing in the coil.

I only said current in Inductor.
   

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I only said current in Inductor.
Is that a current which can be measured, or some ephemeral current which cannot be measured ?
   

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I understand you, but you don't have the causality ordered properly.



I might be a little bit rusty in some theories , I still have my residual knowledge of how things works. Am not in the citadel of learning neither do I work there as a lecturer. Am not a starter in the field of EEE, I left school some 35yrs ago
   

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Posts: 163
   From Wikipedia:
   "Definition

Lenz's law states that:

    The current induced in a circuit due to a change in a magnetic field is directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion.
                              end quote.

   Seam pretty easy to understand.
 
    Notice the word "Current" and not just voltage. And what does a change in flux mean? Does it ignore what causes the flux, in the first place.
Is that flux not caused by both the current, and voltage. Not just one or the other. Can they really be separated, as you are so adamint about.
 Your favorite subject. Is that really that interesting.?

    I have no case to rest... just wanting to learn.

    NickZ

Thank you NickZ
   

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The professor want to give us a new law
   

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And what does a change in flux mean? Does it ignore what causes the flux, in the first place.
Yes, the Lenz law does not care what is responsible for the attempt to change the total flux which is encompassed by the conducting coil.

That attempt to change the total flux encompassed by the coil can be caused by:
1) an external flux attempting to penetrate the coil (as in transformers and generators/motors)
2) an externally injected current, which attempts to generate an additional flux penetrating the coil
3) resistance which dissipates the existing current and attempts to decrease the existing flux penetrating the coil.
   

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The professor want to give us a new law
I want to extend the Lenz's law - not alter it.

As it is stated on Wikipedia now, it is only a qualitative law - it only defines the direction of the induced current and the magnetic flux which is generated by it.
My extension makes it a quantitative law, which ALSO defines the magnitude of the induced current and the magnetic flux which is generated by it.

This extension is what allows me to state that in an ideal shorted coil the total flux always remains constant, regardless of any external flux sources ...and as a consequence ΦINT = -ΦEXT.

See:
https://youtu.be/uL4pfisCX14
   

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The professor want to give us a new law


   Max: The fault here,  and all with all this discussion is because of that little diode. Get rid of it.
   Enough said.  We don't want to get Verpies all riled up, with his favorite topic. Heaven forbid...

   Nickz
   

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Enough said.  We don't want to get Verpies all riled up, with his favorite topic. Heaven forbid...
That made me laugh  ;D

Max: The fault here,  and all with all this discussion is because of that little diode. Get rid of it.
That might be a good idea in an LR circuit but a bad idea in an underdamped LCR circuit, in which the current reverses periodically and oscillates due to that additional capacitance.
   

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Posts: 352
The professor want to give us a new law.
                                                  end quote.
   EDIT:
   Ephemeral circuits, I can't even spell it, much less know how long they could lasts. Could be tragic...in those "underdamped" circuits.
 In which the current, well, you know, it turns around all the time.
You can never tell... so keep that little diode around, then. Better safe than sorry.
But, watch out for any wicked additional capacitance, they're a bitch...
   Good night gents, I have to go watch the meteor showers, to see who is flying by tonight. Could be the girl of my dreams.

   NZ
« Last Edit: 2021-10-27, 02:08:09 by NickZ »
   

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Enjoy your trek through life but leave no tracks
Verpies, re the katcher / Nano pulser, some of thr Russian Lituanian guys were earlier on were showing a sine wave with one cycle over 3 sine wave
presumably representing golden ratio, with that in mind Max's is grenade is at 200 pulses lower than his Tesla coil.
However it becomes a bit confusing in that is the 2 the Tesla coil and the grenade the 1 ?

But in my view I would assume the grenade generating the fish wave would contain a package 200 energy puses.
perhaps you coulds share some light on the subject ? if not then what is your view ?

Regards Sil
   

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Frequency, Vibration, Energy
Nick,

looking at that latest video from Geo, i doubt he is using a "controlable kacher".

What i understand he does is use an extra coil on the yoke to create AC, rectify that with 4 ultra fast diodes into 90 to 150V DC and use that on the primary of the kacher.
No wonder he has these massive streamers, but they are not controlled or timed or synced with the TL494 signal nor with the natural resonance of the Grenade / Inductor.

Its the same as your setup where you use "only" 24V on your kacher primary.


Itsu

Itsu;
that is true
The way my Tesla/Kacher is connected to produce the  ~150VDC
 can be influenced using the TL494 pushpull driver just by turning the potmeter of Freg. 
Some frequencies that will make it white hot arcs as seen in video and some will make it go like static lightning.
, I can re do a video to show this. Only T-1000 knew more then what I was sharing on OU back in those days but
I do see to open this up and share a bit more.

There are things happening at the same time but ofcourse  the last video was not to go precise in resonance with the receiver ( grenade )
It was the importance of the ground wire why I made the video and how it responses with the surroundings. Unit is dependent on it. otherwise it will not work.
I have to setup up my entire bench again after cleaning and events I have everything in boxes now.
No wrries, it will be on the bench again soon

The one thing I ask for all of us to focus on if you reached ionization on grenade when it resonates with the freq that "works in your area"
that you have the HV HF diode bridge and you only draw after the bridge not before it!, if you do... you break the resonance...
but after diode bridge (hlf bridge) and the caps that are continuously charged and the energy can be drawn and the readings at the input area stay the same
as when 0 load.
This is something of importance before I stopped for a long while.

But all this time....
I was working on something els..something very different but needs precision to make it.
Something that agitates the flux lines within a medium but not moving what produces a magnetic field ( magnet ) ;)

Cheerz~
 
   

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Posts: 163
Verpies, re the katcher / Nano pulser, some of thr Russian Lituanian guys were earlier on were showing a sine wave with one cycle over 3 sine wave
presumably representing golden ratio, with that in mind Max's is grenade is at 200 pulses lower than his Tesla coil.
However it becomes a bit confusing in that is the 2 the Tesla coil and the grenade the 1 ?

But in my view I would assume the grenade generating the fish wave would contain a package 200 energy puses.
perhaps you coulds share some light on the subject ? if not then what is your view ?

Regards Sil

@Aliengrey,

Do not confuse your push-pull frequency with your grenade frequency.

The relationship your talking about is grenade and Tesla frequency.
They can be in ratio 1:1 or 2:1 or 3:1. If your comparing the grenade to that of push-pull it could be higher in ratio. Most folks uses that of 50:1 . That's the push-pull sub of grenade frequency
   
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