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Author Topic: Some "New" Observations  (Read 290346 times)
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It's turtles all the way down
The very first valve rectifiers were just an anode plate in the envelope of a incandescent lamp to collect the electrons that boiled off the hot filaments. Later a grid was introduced to control the flow. All of the early 4 pin triodes (45, 26, 2A3 etc) used the filament itself as the cathode. With the introduction of the fifth pin, separately heated cathodes were introduced, although this was also possible by sharing one of the filament pins with the cathode plate in the 4 pin models.

Newer filament construction was via a folded  ceramic coated wire or spiralled wire. This heated a bismuth coated plate or tubular structure as the cathode.

In a folded wire filament, the repulsive forces between the individual strands can be large. This formed a non-inductive filament structure, and as such, the inrush current was substantial, but probably swamped by the PTC of the filament wire itself.

I doubt that SM was talking about this effect, however he did make the analogy of the jumper cables.

It should not be difficult to suspend a wire on a silk thread horizontally,  and allow a spark such as a high voltage capacitor discharge to complete itself through the wire. Such an experiment would have to be set up very carefully to avoid magnetic artifacts, ion wind etc. Also set up perhaps on a turntable so it could be easily positioned in the earth field bias.

(sorry, written while poynt was posting)

« Last Edit: 2014-10-11, 19:22:59 by ION »


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Buy me some coffee
I am wondering if this can all be tied to radiant energy.

Tesla discovered radiant energy, when he was called in to find out why people were being killed the moment high voltage lines were switched on, at the moment of switch on large sparks would jump out and kill  Innocent bystanders from the pylons, he cured this by suppression across the switch.

I believe that it is quiet easy to produce radiant energy and it maybe just as simple as reaching a point where your switch on time is fast enough.

I believe i have detected radiant energy, simply by using a 100K resistor wound round the tip of a scope probe and across it's earth so as to put the 100K load across a floating scope lead, when this is placed near some of my pulsing experiments i detected very strange waveforms.




Posts start here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=272.msg11035#msg11035

And then we have modern EMC design where ground planes are used to soak up EM noise on PCBs, well metal plates are used to collect Radiant energy, so can that mean that some EM noise is actually radiant in nature and can induce a voltage on a plate as per Tesla's description of a radiant burst, if so then the radiant burst emenates from the source in all directions as if a ripple in a pond ripples outwards, how many places can we collect that radiant pulse and it's energy.
   

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You'll need high voltage.

Henry disharged a cap into a coil - magnetizing iron nails in the basement of the building.

Elihu Thomson used a Ruhmkorff coil connected to a water pipe and a large metal table.

Tesla took it from there.

Dollard used spiral coils but drove them with a 20kv supply.

Don't collect it, create it.
   
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http://overunity.com/14640/tpu-successfull-replicaction-cop10-1kw-torroid/dlattach/attach/144761/

This was recently posted at  OU.com by a first time poster Odumy

Feel free to remove if it's just noise.....

Thx

Chet K
« Last Edit: 2014-12-08, 17:17:05 by Chet K »
   

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That patent is the Molina-Martinez device and he later said publicly that the device was not OU, but he thought it was at the time.
   
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Thanks Grump
I'm told that this site is connected to the inventor ?

http://the-molina-institute.org/      [as you have stated]

thx
Chet
   

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Could be.  Same name.
   

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Again I found this old paper of mine and thought it might trigger some interest.

Smudge
   
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I was playing around with an audio tube amplifier, and my boy comes over and hits the box (2 yr old).   Suddenly a very strange sound came over the speakers and it lasted for quite a few seconds.  It sounded metallic in nature, something I heard before on some power lines. 

Anyway,  I'm going to try making some experiments on the TPU theories.   Got my coils out! 

EM


I have worked on tube amps for a very long time. Most likely it was a tube that had become "microphonic". There are other possibilities, e.g. noisy resistor or capacitor, bad connection to a tube socket, or even the magnetic field from the voice coil or output transformer  affecting the tube elements, but without knowing more about the amp, this is just guessing.

Supply a picture and model number and we can go further.

Regards, ION



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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Does it have a reverb? Maybe it was the reverb tank resonating.
   
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Does it have a reverb? Maybe it was the reverb tank resonating.

Yes, agreed, the reverb tank makes a hell of a noise, especially the unfolded lines. I have many times been severely chastised by the audience when I nudged my amp a bit while performing. This is the most obvious cause, I just wasn't thinking it was a guitar amp as that was not mentioned.


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I was playing around with an audio tube amplifier, and my boy comes over and hits the box (2 yr old).   Suddenly a very strange sound came over the speakers and it lasted for quite a few seconds.  It sounded metallic in nature, something I heard before on some power lines. 

Anyway,  I'm going to try making some experiments on the TPU theories.   Got my coils out! 

EM 
From everything I've read, I've come to believe the secret to the TPU was feedback. If you have a pulsing core coil primary, what kind of secondary allows you to collect the kicks and send them back to the primary? One might need a resonant coil (to resonate with the primary); then, what kind of coil config will enable one to draw from the resonant coil without affecting its oscillation?  ;)
Bob
   
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From everything I've read, I've come to believe the secret to the TPU was feedback. If you have a pulsing core coil primary, what kind of secondary allows you to collect the kicks and send them back to the primary? One might need a resonant coil (to resonate with the primary); then, what kind of coil config will enable one to draw from the resonant coil without affecting its oscillation?  ;)
Bob

This is on my slate for further experimentation.
« Last Edit: 2015-07-25, 16:13:03 by ION »


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The kick was just a compressed HV pulse.

Poynt modeled the compressed pulse in Spice, but I've never seen that method in any literature.

How the pulse is applied is what matters.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
The kick was just a compressed HV pulse.

Poynt modeled the compressed pulse in Spice, but I've never seen that method in any literature.

How the pulse is applied is what matters.

The kick imo is the result of the HV/HC pulse applied to a coil or coils. The end result being a slight movement of the coil apparatus in relation to its position in space. It's simply the sharp/abrupt magnetic field produced in the TPU pushing/pulling against the earth's steady magnetic field.

Contrary to what SM seems to espouse, I don't believe this kick or movement is responsible for the power generation, it is simply an effect of the process, and this effect is what gives the device its "gyroscopic feel".
   

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The kick imo is the result of the HV/HC pulse applied to a coil or coils. The end result being a slight movement of the coil apparatus in relation to its position in space. It's simply the sharp/abrupt magnetic field produced in the TPU pushing/pulling against the earth's steady magnetic field.

Contrary to what SM seems to espouse, I don't believe this kick or movement is responsible for the power generation, it is simply an effect of the process, and this effect is what gives the device its "gyroscopic feel".

The pulsed coil doesn't move, everything around it does if free to move, even space - this is easy to see with a coil and hv pulser and based on actual experience.  More mass = more movement, and all materials that I tested were affected.

It is NOT a magnetic pulse at all.  You will detect no EM field from this pulse.

The kick is what exposes the force, so it is responsible.

Very easy to test, like I said. 

Do any of you have a pulser of at least 1.5kv, in the low ns range?  Pulse rate doesn't matter much to just see an effect.
   
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The pulsed coil doesn't move, everything around it does if free to move, even space - this is easy to see with a coil and hv pulser and based on actual experience.  More mass = more movement, and all materials that I tested were affected.

It is NOT a magnetic pulse at all.  You will detect no EM field from this pulse.

The kick is what exposes the force, so it is responsible.

Very easy to test, like I said. 

Do any of you have a pulser of at least 1.5kv, in the low ns range?  Pulse rate doesn't matter much to just see an effect.

Grumpy,

Even though I've been pretty quiet There have been a few occasions where I've tried an idea or two. Some of that time has been playing with extremely short duration HV (600V - 20kV). The durations I've worked with have ranged from single digit ms to single digit ns. Even with my 1 gig scope there was nothing unusual seen in pulse experiments involving inductance and capacitance.

The most unusual seen was DC pulse ringing - I've seen some folks call them solitons. But, these also have classical explanations.

What should I look for?
   

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Grumpy,

Even though I've been pretty quiet There have been a few occasions where I've tried an idea or two. Some of that time has been playing with extremely short duration HV (600V - 20kV). The durations I've worked with have ranged from single digit ms to single digit ns. Even with my 1 gig scope there was nothing unusual seen in pulse experiments involving inductance and capacitance.

The most unusual seen was DC pulse ringing - I've seen some folks call them solitons. But, these also have classical explanations.

What should I look for?

I used an avalanche stack at 2kv.  Brooks wound coil of 1300 feet #28 hi-temp insulation mag wire.  I can get the actual former that I used and measure it if you want, but ID is around 1 inch and OD of 3 inches, 1 inch wide.  Pulse this coil and hold a magnet near it.  I free- ran my pulser at around 1 MHz with my first try and that magnet is all over the place.  Then you will think to try other objects and they are all affected.  Ponderomotive force? Gravity field? ???  I could make pieces of plastic crawl across the bench, and pencil lead, magnets act freaky.

   

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Brooks 1931

http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/air_coils.html

There is probably a correlation between inductance and coupling to space.
   
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It would make sense that ferromagnetic materials would dampen it then. In my eyes anyway.
   
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Hi EM

Getting a DC current to flow with an AC input without electrical rectification is one of the keys to TPU operation.

This area alone is overdue for serious experimentation. I might add that one should look into parallel wires carrying AC current, as a mechanical "rectification" of motion does occur, IOW, you get a push-push or pull-pull between the wires with AC current, depending on how they are phased. Same is true for coils of wire e.g. electromagnets. Very basic, but I think this mechanical motion rectification was somehow used to create DC. Another area for investigation, perhaps.

Regarding your drawing, some form of "pole shading" or magnetic bias should probably  be used to allow the electrons to prefer a given direction rather than just go back and forth  thus producing only an AC output.

In one of the videos where the sound was blanked momentarily, SM said it was well known , or something like that.

Regards, ION


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a motionless homopolar generator

I used this term back in 2009...time goes by so fast

http://overunity.com/5662/faradays-paradox-experiment/msg206471/#msg206471
« Last Edit: 2015-08-02, 17:01:25 by Grumpy »
   

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If I  were to try an arrangement of coils like that:

1. use heavy copper for the core wire
2. wind six sections of coils over the core, so that they can be pulsed sequentially
3. wind a coil over the entire arrangement for static DC (magnetic bias)

You can wind over a straight wire core and then bend it into a loop.

The idea being to "push" the electrons along the wire core.

Notice that the bias coil field is parallel to the core wire.  Applying a perpendicular force to the core, rotated from one end to the other, might induce a current in the core.
   
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Consider two large horizontal loops that are fed an AC signal of the same frequency. Depending on the phase of the signals sent into the loops, there will be either an attractive or a repulsive force for each half cycle of the AC waveform between the loops.

Put another way, there will be a push apart due to the positive half cycle and a push apart due to the negative half cycle of the AC waveform. Reverse the phase to one of the loops and instead of a push apart, the loops are in attraction.

This mechanical rectification of motion has always interested me, and is what allows Universal motors able to run in one direction despite the constantly reversing direction of current and voltage on AC mains.

Now vary the frequency of one loop just slightly off from the other and the effect will rotate the mechanical attraction or repulsion at the difference frequency around the loop.

Conversely one loop could be trimmed in length to change the standing wave into a rotating wave of attractions (or repulsions, depending on phasing) around the loop. This is a mechanical force that rotates around the loop if I am correct in visualizing all this.

Then all that may be needed is a way to have that mechanical motion translate into the motion of the electrons in the wire. Perhaps here enters  SM's garden hose analogy,lifting the hose to produce a "hill" in the hose, which forces the water out one end. So we need not really a wave, but a hill (lifting the hose, and moving the lifted area along the hose). The mechanical rectification creates the "hill". Ordinary wave motion will not do the job as it will just force the electrons into the hills and valleys, but not move them along the wire. Pure wave motion would require a third frequency to modulate the wave to move electrons around the loop.

The loops could also be coiled up into multi turn electromagnets, but not rigidly fixed solenoids. The multi turn wire loops must be free to flex around the circumference in order to create relative mechanical motion between the loops and the circulating physical hill or valley in the wire.

Just thinking out loud, have not tried this, but it seems to explain the use of the very floppy wires seen in the early video showing the core being cut apart. Also this idea seems to explain the thickness of the smaller units when the loops are multi turn and coiled within that structure, but free to move relative each other, perhaps suspended in a foam rubber surrounding.

I don't believe we will see the effect if our windings are tightly wound on rigid formers, which prevent the relative mechanical motion of the loops.

It would also explain the mechanical vibration felt by observers, and the slight gyroscopic force. Study ring resonators and it will become clearer.

This effect was probably noted in SM's dual voice coil research, where one of the voice coils came loose off the former allowing a degree of freedom against the other voice coil.

It also occurs to me that if the excitation AC signal is capacitively  or inductively coupled, the DC might be free to appear on the loops themselves, or possibly even between the loops if they remain electrically  iisolated from each other.

Remember, SM was an acoustics guy, experimenting with dual voice coil speakers in an attempt to get a spatial sound field out of a single speaker. This would require phase information differences between the coils as well as another degree of freedom  of motion (besides linear) in the piston of the loudspeaker

I wrote some of this up in the "Acoustic Resonator Hypothesis" a good while back but it was forgotten.
« Last Edit: 2015-08-03, 15:03:34 by ION »


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
ION,  thanks for the reminder, I'll add another horizontal loop.   Mechanical rectification is high up on my list, glad to see you mention it.


Results update.


So I bought a number of tape wound toroids, albeit, a bit smaller than Steven used in the TPU.  I placed one of these on one lead of the TPU coil I had, loosely winding about 4 turns, and the whole think seems to come alive, when I hit certain frequencies.  The small toroids saturate so quickly, I can see it on the scope.

The TPU is about 15 to 20 cm in diameter, with the inner core made of a steel band coiled up to make a toroid, then over it I placed lamp cord.  I tell you that thing "sings" at lots of frequencies as I tune the Signal Generator connected to it.   Last night I said, before I wind another one, let me probe the vibrating core, and put it on the scope, and I did.   I took two push pins and poked in between the windings, one on the outside and one on the inside of the TPU, and made contact with the steel band inside the TPU.  

When you "come in contact" with the core it's amazing.  All sorts of hash, and noise, but no DC yet, but it sure got me thinking now.

EM

EM,

Could you illustrate what you were doing?

Thanks.
   
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