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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 76296 times)

Group: Professor
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It is HO pin 7 IR2110, going to Q4 gate.
Could you post such scopeshot with a trace of the signal at the Q6 base, too ?
   

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PW,

Thanks for the reply Vasik...
Is the blue trace in the same scope shot a probe laying next to the Kacher or the Q6 collector?
How warm does Q6 get during operation?

Blue trace - probe laying next to kacher secondary.
Q6 is cold (ambient)

Vasik

PS ambient currently around 28 'C :(


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verpies,

Could you post such scopeshot with a trace of the signal at the Q6 base, too ?

I doubt that it has any importance, but here it is

Vasik


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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AlienGrey,

It simply means there is not enough pick up signal for feed back.

So how do you explain the Adrian Video's where he has a Tesla a 1/4 wave or 19m wind, I tried it and it don't work.
Rxplain that one  ;D  'if you can'.

Tesla coil is NOT kacher. You keep mixing them.
Tesla coil feed with pulses from driver, kacher self oscillating.

If you take more HF transistor (comparing to 2SC5200) most probably you can get 19m kacher working also.
2SC5200 won't work higher than 5 MHz (I guess).

Vasik





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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
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PW,

Blue trace - probe laying next to kacher secondary.
Q6 is cold (ambient)

Vasik

PS ambient currently around 28 'C :(

Yeah, but how's the humidity?  Just kidding...

As always, many thanks for your replies!

PW
   

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Itsu,

All,
Please take a look at post #823 here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg92607#msg92607

I think at this picture it's working properly.

Vasik


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
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verpies,

I doubt that it has any importance, but here it is

Vasik

Vasik,

Looks like your HO low period is around 8us in your previous scope shot and around 4us in this scope shot with the Q6 base signal displayed. 

Has RV7 has been adjusted differently between the two scope shots?

PW
   

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PW,

Looks like your HO low period is around 8us in your previous scope shot and around 4us in this scope shot with the Q6 base signal displayed. 
Has RV7 has been adjusted differently between the two scope shots?

Yes.
Device still under construction.

Vasik


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

Group: Professor
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I doubt that it has any importance, but here it is
Let me be the judge of that.
Does the yellow trace still represent the IR2110.pin7 while the blue trace represents the Base of Q6 ?

   

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Does the yellow trace still represent the IR2110.pin7 while the blue trace represents the Base of Q6 ?

Yes.


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Buy me a cigar
Keep it up guys.   O0

This is way better than Wimbledon....

 :)


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   

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Just to confuse everyone and make this even more horrible mess  >:-)
I say that...after some consideration, schematic can be simplified like this
until we keep R17 reasonably high.
So in future we can throw U5 away and use single driver as U7.

Also it is good idea ground TL494 pin 3 thru 1k or something like this.

Vasik


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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@Itsu

Notice, that on your scopeshot when your Q6 base signal is high (and rising) there are not many HF oscillation superimposed on it.
However on Vasik's scopeshot of the Q6 base signal, there are clearly strong HF oscillations superimposed on it.

Below is a scaled comparison of these two base waveforms.
   

Group: Professor
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This is way better than Wimbledon....
What is Wimbledon?
   

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I say that...after some consideration, schematic can be simplified like this
Would this work, too ?

   

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Would this work, too ?

Looks risky for me.


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Looks risky for me.
Do you have trepidations about the signal form the antenna burning out the UCC27511 driver at pin 3 ?
   
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Just some observations:

Vasik's Q6 is turning on faster than Itsu's.  This is likely due to Itsu increasing R17 to 8.2K,  Returning R17 to 3.3K will bring Itsu's turn on time more in line with Vasik's. 

Vasik's Kacher is still ringing down with a significant amount of amplitude when Q6 is turned on.  That is, collector coil ring-down oscillations remain large enough in amplitude at Q6 turn-on to impress oscillations into the base of Q6 ( presumably via capacitive coupling of the collector coil to the antenna).

It is possible that Itsu's Q6 is not applying enough current to the Q6 collector coil to sufficiently stimulate a longer ring-down.  Another possibility is that Vasik's RLC of his Kacher is of higher Q than Itsu's and therefore ringing down for a longer period of time.  Decreasing R17 further, i.e., 2K instead of 3.3K, will increase Q6/collector coil current and possibly provide sufficient stimulus to increase the ring-down time.  If not, collector coil Q or collector coil to antenna coupling might need to be considered.

In both circuits (Vasik/Itsu), Q6 is only briefly turned on for just a few cycles at the Kacher frequency.  It seems likely the rapid turn off of Q6 is providing the bulk of the stimulus initiating the Kacher ring-down.

PW

 
   

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@Itsu

Notice, that on your scopeshot when your Q6 base signal is high (and rising) there are not many HF oscillation superimposed on it.
However on Vasik's scopeshot of the Q6 base signal, there are clearly strong HF oscillations superimposed on it.

Below is a scaled comparison of these two base waveforms.


   Verpies:  That could be due to Itsu not having a properly working Kacher HV output, yet. Just a very weak one.
                I do think that a very high HV HF voltages like 100 to 150v can easily burn something out. Like the fets or that 5200 transistor, etc...
                It's good to have several extra parts, and mounted them onto the holders,  for easy removal. Like you mentioned, it takes some experimentation. I've blown my fair share of components, trying to get the Kacher base thing worked out. But, I have noticed that the higher the input to the 5200 base, the higher is the Kachers output, everything else being equal. And so, I also think that Itsu's base input is just too low to kick it on. Can't this be measured by just connecting up a volt meter to base and emitter? At least to take a simple voltage reading, even without the current readings? Then trying to adjust that to less than 1.5 amps? But, close to it.
   

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@PW

I agree with your assessment.
Vasik's Kacher is ringing down longer and the signal from the antenna seems much stronger than Itsu's, too.
   

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Do you have trepidations about the signal form the antenna burning out the UCC27511 driver at pin 3 ?

yes, trepidations ;D

probable scenario: short HV spike will cause latch up inside UCC27511 and then it will burn.





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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

Group: Professor
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That could be due to Itsu not having a properly working Kacher HV output, yet. Just a very weak one.
Tell us more how the placement and properties of the coil/antenna affects the amplitude of the signal coming form it.
   
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Vasik,

As NickZ stated, perhaps Itsu just needs a bit more voltage on the collector coil.  As previously discussed, it would be nice if Itsu could incrementally adjust his voltage a bit higher (as opposed to going to 100V in one step)

In your "oscillating" scope shot, what voltage were you using?

PW

(edited, quoted wrong post)
   

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probable scenario: short HV spike will cause latch up inside UCC27511 and then it will burn.
What would be the probable source of such HV spike ?
Wouldn't the base-emitter junction of the Q6, clamp down any HV spikes at pin 3?
   
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Vasik,

Can you provide a scope shot of the Q6 base signal and the Kacher output (probe laying next to coil) at the same 2.5us timebase or even a bit faster, i.e., 2us, as your previous base signal scope shot?

This might allow us to determine the phase of the base oscillations relative to the Kacher output.

PW
   
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